Hahaha. .... ok ok .. You win. Long Live China. ..😂

Now we see if Kossan directors sell their shares in this good news.

To continue ... China quality lower. So if CHina improve on quality meaning increase raw material... their cost would be at par with Msia. Meaning they have to increase ASP to be profitable. So is China a big threat? ... maybe ... from lower labour cost.

To me ... China and Msia don't have much room to play when it comes to cost.

Sure. Capacity Utilisation is important. But that is from reported data. Everybody can see and make a decision. And from Kossan Q3 profit shows they managed their fixed cost well.

For me, to make money, we have to speculate future data, mainly demand and existing customers' stocks. If they need restock means gloves make money. From the improving gloves numbers, demand is back and customers' stock is lower.


Andre Kua

Actually do you know how to calculate whether or not glove is worth buying??? Based on QR??? LOL...

You have a rough estimate of their annual capacity. Use that to calculate based on guesstimate pricing for bulk 1000 pcs pricing. Then compare with their revenue and you will get a rough figure about ASP and if ASP is showing sign of rise. Use the base bulk pricing calculation of USD20-25/1000pcs to guess their current capacity utilisation.

Actually China also make NBR gloves. So their raw material cost is same as Msia.
But their quality is lower ... meaning thinner gloves. Meaning use lesser raw material.

Different usage. NBR for medical and high-end. Latex maybe food preparation or butchering facilities. Both has it's market. NBR more expensive lor.

Huangbk72

Right... Latex market is worse off.

Why TG never convert to NBR? No foresight?

Cannot compare Kossan and TopGlove.
TopGLove = Latex gloves ...
Kossan = 75% NBR Gloves, 25% latex gloves.

Anyway, my post shows that he is right ler ....

You are King of Pusing. Bullet can curve one... 😂

I know you are targeting Felix. But watch your bullets ler ... Don't simply tembak.
Anyway this Felix got problem one.
Enemy he tembak. Frens also he tembak .... hahaha

Huangbbkk72

You are right..

Felix is wrong

Hahhaha

You looking for an argument with me ah?
So here's the deal.

Andre Kua copy & paste for "For the 9 months ended 30 September 2023".
Meaning Q1+Q2+Q3 numbers
This for Gloves, TR etc ,,, meaning all the segments
Annual 2023: Q1 Loss Rm23.6m/ Q2 Loss Rm2.66m / Q3 Profit Rm41.8m
Add All quarters. Net loss Rm15.54. So if Q4 is profitable by more than Rm15.54... than it's in the black.

Felix999 copy & paste for "For the third quarter ended 30 September 2023,"
Meaning stand alone quarter of Q32023
Glove itself Profit before tax = RM31.21
"PBT was RM31.21 million in 3Q23 as compared with PBT of RM1.00 million in 3Q22" is from the report .... MEaning glove shows high improvement.

You know how to read report boh?


Huangbbkk72

Sore loser ya..

Today Andre and Chipee posted ya. Not theedge

Look up

Ok la got improvement.
Q2/23 Gloves loss was 46.98m
Q3/23 Gloves loss was 15.77m (improve by 66%)
Q4/23 ???



Andre Kua

Reading all the comments make you be like Ahmad Mazlan (binggung) when you actually load up the QR report.

Kossan actually made a loss on their gloves... negative 15millions from glove but clean room gain 6.7m... overall glove segment still losing 8m++ compared to Harta who is turning a small profit. What boost their profits is the Technical Rubber segment and OTHERS (which they indicate is related to investment holding etc).

I see Rm1.85 resistance.

Kossan has Rm2bill. Rm1.2 bill in cash. Rm800mill in liquid investment (FD maybe)

Yeah man. after covid, I value kossan more than harta.
Kossan shld be more than Harta share price. Both produce nbr gloves. Unlike TopGlove with latex gloves.

klee

harta only 27.7 mil profit

PROFIT .... RM41.8 million. WooHooo !!!!!

Riverstone has annual capacity of 15 billion. Meaning they are smaller. Fixed cost is lower. Of coz their Net profit is good. But only at this transition moment. But they can't take the advantage when demand spikes. It's gloves we are talking about. Nothing high end. Glove is a volume game.

Sigh .... DEPRECIATION include buildings la ..aiyoh... Only land doesn't have depreciation.

Felix888999

Aiyoh I'm not accounting people leh. Read PL, BS and cash flow boleh lah. Accounting technical things wau mana tahu.

U find out and give us answer lor.

Felix888

Machines depreciation useful life maybe just 5 years. How about factory building?

If got impairment loss like Harta, it would had been reported in financials. No report means no losses lor. Moreso, 14 & 19 years ... DEPRECIATION already recorded over the years. Those plants should ALREADY recorded "losses" in those years.

Must look at their distribution channel too. They are big meaning they have the means to push to volume when demands recover. Riverstone ... I don't know la.

UlarSawa

Riverstone is better. At least until now no red QR before even pandemic over leh. See their QR you must even envy them still can give divvy leh. Taikor is the worst leh. Over expanding until beyond control need to cut capacity leh. Alot of white elephant statues on display on the factory leh. Kesian. Haiyoh. Correct?

Harta cut down close to 13 billion pcs per year. Kossan only reduce 3 biliion pcs.

I don't think they have impairment loss bcoz they didn't decommission. They improve their machine and process to increase productivity. Line will still jalan after improvement. Unlike Harta, terus shutdown.

2020 data on production capacity
TopGLove 86.4 billion pcs
Hartalega 40.5 billion pcs
Kossan 32 billion pcs
Supermax 26.2 billion pcs

So Kossan & Supermax is in the sweet spot in production size for current demand. TopGlove and Harta got higher production capability means their fixed cost is high.
Harta shutdown Bestari Jaya is cut down 32% of production capacity = 27.5bill.... So Kossan is still within the range of safe play in production size.

Wah lau ... drag to next week liao this QR result. ...sigh ... why ler?

Now between the 4 taikors, I look at cost side. TopGlove to big liao. Fixed cost very high.
Medium size like Kossan still can survive.

Machine la. Raw material la ... all the same. China and Msia.
China glove quality is lesser. Only reason, their gloves are thinner. Thinner gloves mean lesser raw material.

Only difference is labour cost. China labour cost is cheaper than Msia I think.
Some more, Msia policy now foreign workers frenly. Must pay minimum wage la, give good accomodation la ... wahlau ...sure high cost lor.

Only thing can save Msia gloves is US fight with China. Ban their product or higher tariff.

Damn ... no dividend was announced by Hartalega but they had share buy back.
I wonder if Kossan be the same ... sigh.

Usually early Nov.
ChandranG

@Chipee. Q3 out this month?

Whole market is down. So can't blame it. Wait for Q3 to announce.

ChandranG

Down back today 😅 so fluatuate

Yeah ... damn kanciong ... hahaha

Likesung

Chipee
Qr need to wait this end of October

Yeah. Sold outside of the market. Does not affect the pricing in the market. For all you know, they sold it below market price to TAN KONG CHANG (Director in Kossan Bhd).
I suspect a big dividend announcement. I'm praying NOT buy back by Kossan Bhd.

Likesung

Fairus4469
Uncle Lim jual kpd Mr Tan

Another naysayer. Maybe he got burnt by rubber glove .... LoL


ks5S
ya something Big is coming
maybe
(1) CEO is retiring
(2) kossan brothers, uncle, cucu , cicit, girlfriend, mistress...start selling in the open market
(3) fighting among the brothers as family business sure got problem
conclusion: Sell

50 Million sold outside the market to TAN KONG CHANG (Director in Kossan Bhd).
I think something BIG is coming.

Yeah. Agree. I think that's why institution stay away from them. I think Kossan should value more than Hartalega. Comparing No. share outstanding etc....

Likesung
Last time 2020 they make disposal from 51% reduced to 47% if logically they buy low sell high

Likesung
Moving abt 366million Kossan shares from Kossan Sdn Bhd to their directors.
That's personal ownership for each directors. I can only speculate ... Kossan Bhd will give big dividend so the directors can receive the tax-free money directly.

Or

Individual director would dump the shares. Then price might fall.
So it can go either way, If Kossan Sdn Bhd, directors have to agree to sell or buy back share. Another problem is, Kossan Bhd will buy back shares with the 2bill cash. Push price up? And reduce Kossan Bhd cash holding? They sell the shares and pocket the sales money individually? Is that taxable? I don't know.

Good or bad is for speculation. Have to wait and see what happen.

I think there will be a big dividend announcement coming end of Oct. Kossan Holding SB just transferred shares to individual directors. Maybe a big profit announcement Q3?
Or just reducing Kossan Holding SB holding away from 51%?

EXACTLY!!!

Likesung

United States&China continuous trade war advantage for Malaysia products .

"Dont waste time at glove anymore ...blah blah blah .." ... "See money take money loh ..bla bla bla" .... Up or down you are "RIGHT" ah? STFU la.
Big joker like you think you can "control" the market with your mouth... hahaha...

NatsukoMishima

See money take money loh otherwise dont know how many years will be trapped !

It's call rotation play. Expectation of recession ... big players are going into healthcare, staples and utilities. So buy when people panic on sectors you want. Kossan better show profit Q3. Then probably good time ahead for Kossan.

hahaha.... He is trying to get others to boost his shares up.

ARBEDEEN still buying .... Good.
I rather listen to REPORT that is from INTCO themselves then listening to RUMOURS pluck from the air... LoL.

ABRDN is still buying.... :)

Harta loss was RM302.76 million in Q1. Q2 is RM52.47 million .... Loss drop by 83%
Kossan loss was RM23.6 million in Q1. Q2 is RM2.66 million .... Loss drop by 89%

Hopefully, Q3 & Q4 sees profit. They expanded too much for COVID so fixed cost increased. Now they shld scale down to cut cost to be profitable.


Likesung
Harta punya pasal lah

Sounds about right

rizerlee

Operating cost is higher than Revenue.
demand is getting bad and chinese competition getting tense
Company need to start fire somebody to keep the cost low

Endgame missed chance to buy at Rm1 ma ...

OK la .. gloves department losses decrease from ( 34,904) to ( 12,073). Hopefully, it will be profitable in Q3.

Now ask your friend whether Kossan is profitable last quarter ... then report here, Thx u...hehehe

EverettLee

Won't privatize la. Ask a friend of mine who working there

51% will trigger Mandatory offer. But doesn't mean Kossan would want it. If they privatise, they need to fork out Rm1.7 billion. I don't think they be interested. They would end up with Rm270million in balance sheet to operate Kossan. Is that enough? Moreso interest rate is going up, debt won't be favourable to them to privatize. That's just my 2 cents.

I don't know.

@Chipee. Hmm, do you think they will privatize this company?

Yes. Agree. But they are dangerously close to 51% that may trigger privatisation.

EverettLee

Continuous shares buyback from the directors. Good sign