Hi all, somebody below here posted everywhere in i3 recommending to read about things in this thread. It must be a great thread. I personally think it is very useful for many people who are interested in knowing financial statement analysis and interpretations, and also valuation methods. With more knowledge, many be it can improve our investing experience in Bursa. Lets go.

Posted by iafx > Oct 23, 2013 10:12 AM | Report Abuse
for that, u can get it here: http://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/forum/800001734.jsp?ftp=6.
c how kcchongnz copied 1 year back posts to abuse other.

Posted by iafx > Oct 23, 2013 10:27 AM | Report Abuse
also learn how to copied 1 year old posts and attack like a mad dog, later claimed Malaysia market an INEFFICIENT one.

Posted by kcchongnz > Oct 21, 2013 11:42 AM | Report Abuse
bsngpg, my statement about 75%-80% of the funds under-performed the market is for the research from the US market. My statement is wrong in the Malaysian context....

I guess the Malaysian market is not an efficient market as compared to the US market.

btw, this auntie claimed she's from NZ, comment on KLSE everyday and night, very logic! very analytical!


Yeah I spent a lot of time in i3, reading and trying to scout for investment ideas. Yeah I made a lot of comments, everyday. This is because I like to share ideas and knowledge. A lot of people here like to share knowledge and ideas with me.

But all these seem to offend this guy iafx here. Why? Anybody else feel offended because I like to share knowledge and ideas?

Btw anybody find anything so funny or offended about my comments about the efficient market in US or non efficient market in Bursa as this guy iafx kept on re-posting it as if it is so ridiculous kind of comments?

Posted by faberlicious > Oct 22, 2013 06:29 PM | Report Abuse

KC,please take look at MBMR WA

MBMR-WA
Warrant price- 70 cents


Mother share- 3.72
Exercise Price- 3.20
Maturity date- 14/6/2017
Premium- 4.84%
Gearing- 5.31

I like this warrant.In and out a many times.Did u tikam YTLP WB?

faberlicious, with a low premium of 4.84%, and about 4 more years to expire, MBMR Wa appears to be a good value warrant. However, the problem is MBMR pays out a lot of dividends, something like 41.35 sen last year. So the dividend yield for MBMR is very high at 11%. A I right?

Warrant holders do not enjoy the dividends. High dividend diminishes the value of the underlying share and hence the value for the warrant holders. Using a dividend yield of 11% and an assumed historical volatility of MBMR, the warrant at 71 sen can be twice overpriced.

If you are bullish about MBMR, I think it is better to buy the underlying share rather than the warrant.

This is just my personal opinion and you don't have to follow.

Yeah, I encourage anybody who is interested in learning about financial statement analysis and interpretations, valuation etc, go to the thread suggested.

http://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/forum/800001734.jsp?ftp=6.

I did a lot for this company Pintaras Jaya. Read through the whole thread. I think those who don't know much about finance and investment will benefit very much. Ask me any question about fundamental analysis which I used a lot there. I also welcome constructive criticisms. I can learn from you too.

As to the quarrel between me and this iafx, I don't think you give a damn. But if you are interested, you can read about the issues too. It may be entertaining too.

Please go and read from first post to the last if you are interested. I am very happy to answer any question.

Posted by davidkkw79 > Oct 23, 2013 09:56 AM | Report Abuse

iafx, what you abuse on Kchongnz is true ? then I think I better cabut first, bfore this stock going to holland....

Hi my friend davidkkw, want to listen to some good and sincere advice here?

The stock market is not a place for you.

Posted by iafx > Oct 22, 2013 10:01 AM | Report Abuse

c how kcchongnz copied and cheat at kfima thread, pg.45:

Posted by kcchongnz > Jul 23, 2013 04:15 PM | Report Abuse
...
Btw, you got idea whether there is ghost in the this thread? You know the ghost who amended the word "revenue" with "profit"...


No medicine can cure you. You really have no conscience. Have some deep thought for yourself.

Posted by Avocado_C > Oct 22, 2013 04:53 PM | Report Abuse

What do you think about SPRITZER-WA:
Price: RM0.58
Mother share: RM1.73
Exercise price: RM1.18
Exercise ratio: 1:1
Maturity: 13-12-2016
Gearing: 2.98x
Premium: 1.73%

At today's price of 1.71, and warrant price 59 sen, the implied volatility is about 25%. Hence I would be indifferent about this warrant.

So if you are bullish about Spritzer, may be good idea to go ahead and invest in the warrant.

WCT company warrants (23/10/13)

There are two outstanding company warrants issued by WCT. The exercise price, expiry date and the current price of each warrant is listed in Table 1 below, along with their intrinsic value and the respective premium, implied volatility and gearing to the warrants:

Table 1
Warrant Price Ex-Price Exp date Intrinsic value Premium Imvol Gearing
Wc 0.470 2.04 10/03/2016 0.380 3.7% 18% 5.1
Wd 0.420 2.25 11/12/2017 0.170 10.3% 19% 5.8
WCT at RM2.42 on 23rd October 2013
Imvol is implied volatility

If one is bullish about the company WCT in particular and the market in general, warrants may offer a better alternative way of investing/trading than the underlying share. But just which warrant should one choose as a better play? It actually depends on individuals.

The best warrant to choose from is one with the lowest premium, the longest expiry date and the highest leverage. However all these favourable criteria don’t come together as you can see from Table 1 above. Both warrants above are in-the-money with positive intrinsic values. Wc is of better value trading at a lower premium of 3.7% and with a good gearing 5.1. Wd has a longer expiry date of more than 4 years and higher gearing of 5.8. However the premium is higher at 10.3%. So just which warrant is the best to buy?

For me I feel there is not much difference which to choose as both have approximately the same implied volatility. Most people may choose the longer expiry date and higher gearing Wd, especially if they are bullish about WCT. It is just individual choice.

PJD Wc? Yes, yes, yes.

Spritzer Wa? Don't know yet.

house, this is a success of you in discovering this gem and made a good analysis on it and made good money out of it. Kudos!

你是中武林小說的毒

CityTrader, nice song and nice site you have there.

In those days when I went to karoake, I like to sing 合唱歌 like that one 你是我胸口永远的痛. I like 叶欢. the other song is 天天等天天問

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GjEdF9JYLo

wow, a bottle of XO or Gordon Blue on hand and 合唱 with a beautiful 歌星. Really 往事只能回味

jennylee, my comments are for the warrant. And it is based on the post here:

Posted by sephiroth > Oct 22, 2013 10:21 AM | Report Abuse
curent price of 0.34 represent a premium of just 16.5% meaning the market is just expecting the price of the mother share to be RM1.34 in 2020 (warrant expire in 2020). this is damn ridiculous considering the nav is 2.12 in 2013 and nav in 2020 will be sky high. Director have been accumalting 1,617,000 shares in 4 days

Need to look at the quality of PJ Dev's assets which made up its NTA of 2.12. If the quality is good, then definitely it is a value buy. If the quality is not good, such as a lot of PPE, receivables, inventories etc which are not too certain of their realizable values, then we have to evaluate in more detail.

Posted by bsngpg > Oct 22, 2013 01:17 PM | Report Abuse

我的其中一个最痛是Latexx、捐了接近九万。

For you bsngpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BV750hs80hA

你是我胸口永遠的痛

tonylim, a bigger treat for datasonic?

I also got unforgettable experience.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uRtNMFfF-g

Thanks for our great hero, Tan Koon Swan

My 2 Pan Electric share certificates still framed up in my house.

Yes, PJ Dev Wc is attractive. It has huge amount of time value. Yes, I also afraid that it is taken private and minority shareholders not given a good premium, because warrant holders will lose all the time value.

That is why I prefer to buy company warrants with low premium, or best still, at discount. Then the risk is low.

nightshade, thanks for your valuable feed back. No issues with your comments. I respect your difference in opinion. After all that is how the capital market works, a place where there are opposite opinions resulting in buy sell activities.

aiyah, told you already nobody gives a damn who you quarrel with and what you are quarreling about.

Share your knowledge here about whether Plenitude is a good investment or not, and why is it good or bad. What other better investments and why. That will be useful.

Posted by iafx > Oct 22, 2013 09:43 AM | Report Abuse
fibon a healthy co., no need promoter will go up should the market remains bullish.
see how kcchongnz turn into mad dog using 1 year old post to attack other:

MAD DOG? WHO IS A MAD DOG NOW? PEOPLE HERE TALK ABOUT INVESTMENT MATTERS, INVESTING IN FIBON. NOT TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE, ARE WE?

Liar? See personal attack. People here will appreciate if you can tell what lies are in my post in the Graham net-net and private market comparable analysis of Plenitude and other property companies.

This is a post about investing in Plenitude. Is it about managed funds or unit trusts? Or is it for personal attack?

I think people here will benefit if you can articulate why these companies faber, zhulian, favco, p&o, perstim are better options. Please share.

No not for me. I am not interested in what you think. But for the sake of the forumers here.

By the way, who attacked who people know.

Yes sense maker, I actually retired way before statutory requirement. Envy your fast moving and globe trotting career.

Plenitude and Graham net-net

In 1932 at the bottom of the Great Crash, Ben Graham wrote an article on Forbes about the cheapness of the market and how companies are being quoted in the market for much less than their liquidating value, as if they were all destined to be doomed. He called these types of stocks, "net nets", companies that sell for less than its net current asset value, or net net working capital. Graham used the following formula to compute the liquidation value of a company.


Net Net Working Capital = Cash and short-term investments + (0.75 * accounts receivable) + (0.5 * inventory) – total liabilities


It's the lowest form of valuation you could possibly do because it ignores everything about the business and just focuses on tangible assets. The formula states that;

• cash and short term investments are worth 100% of its value
• accounts receivables should be taken at 75% of its stated value because some might not be collectible
• take 50% off inventories, due to discounting if close outs occur

Net net comparison of some property companies
Three companies from Bursa; Daiman, Plenitude and KSL’s latest balance sheets were used to compute their net tangible asset and Graham net net values. Besides cash, the net net values of land, development costs and investment properties owned are also taken as 100% of the book value. This is a fair assessment as it is believed that these assets are likely to worth more than their book value than otherwise. Note that tax assets, property, plant and equipment, Goodwill and “other assets” are taken as worth nothing.

Table 1 below shows the prevailing share prices of the three property companies at the close in the morning on 6 September 2013, their net tangible assets and Graham net net per share.

Table 1: Graham net-net valuation of Daiman
Company Price NTA Net-net Discount
Daiman 2.63 4.85 3.76 -30%
KSL 2.02 3.13 2.47 -18%
Plenitude 2.10 3.35 3.04 -31%

The table shows that Plenitude, with a share price of RM2.10, is trading at the highest discount of 31% to its Graham net net value of RM3.04. Daiman at RM2.63, follows closely at a discount of 30%. It is noted that both Plenitude and Daiman has no debts at all while KSL has a debt to equity of 0.21. Plenitude also has its highest holding in cash at RM1.44, or 37% of the total assets. Daiman’s cash holding is RM1.23 per share, or 20% of total assets. KSL on the other hand has most of its value in land held for development of 36% of total assets. KSL’s net cash is only 47m, or less than 3% of the total assets.


Earnings based comparison
Table 2 below shows the market valuation based on earnings at the latest year end results.


Table 2: Market valuation based on earnings
Company Price PER EV/Ebit EV/Sales
Daiman 2.63 8.0 4.5 1.7
KSL 2.02 6.1 5.2 2.4
Plenitude 2.10 7.4 2.0 0.9

KSL’s PE ratio of 6.1 appears to be the lowest valuation while there is not much difference between Plenitude and Daiman with PE between 7.4 and 8.0. However based on enterprise value, Plenitude has the best value with its market enterprise value (EV) only twice the earnings before interest and tax (Ebit). EV is even less than sales at 0.9 times.

Enterprise Value = Market Capitalization + Minority interest + Total Debt - Cash

KSL is the most expensive when enterprise value is taken into consideration. Its EV is 5.2 times Ebit, basically because it is the only one utilizing a fair bit of debts.

Conclusions
All three property companies above show that they are trading at steep discounts to their net tangible assets. They are even traded at substantial discounts to their Graham net net asset values, ranging from 18% to 31%. Of the three, Plenitude appears to be a better bargain with a Graham net net discount of 31% and enterprise value only twice its Ebit and less than its annual sales.

Posted by fatinvest > Oct 22, 2013 12:28 AM | Report Abuse

Talking about making money in bursa, I remember those days ( 1993) when I was still in govt service one of our colleagues made big money during the super bull run of 1993 and resigned from service . Alas two years after that he was borrowing money from friends for living expenses,and had a divorce!大鱼大肉， 原来都是自己的血汗钱！

Ha, you worked in Government before, just like me. I worked for 10 years in DID. Involved in the KL Flood mitigation and built the Batu Dam from feasibility studies to completion. I liked the life those days. 8.00-4.15pm. Five days week, 10am tea, 3.00pm tea again and 4.15 home. Played a lot of games, badminton, table tennis.

Then I left after a 10-year bond and worked for a contracting company. Ha, damn tough and stressful. But I was happy in the civil engineering life. Learn a lot of stuff.

So I think young people should concentrate in their work and career. Only with spare time learn about finance (including personal finance) and investment and other stuff. Safe and invest.

Never never follow fatinvest's colleagues who gave up their jobs and hope to make a living just through the share market. Gambling in the share market is a zero sum gain and the expected return is zero. How can one make a living when the expected return is zero?

MESSIBARCA, Yes, I have bought PM Corp, not only for myself, also for my sister-in-law and nephew, and my two children who asked me to invest for them. Actually I have been telling my daughters concentrate on their career and to safe and invest.

It is still a small part of my portfolio. No need to update my portfolio in i3. The portfolio changes too from time to time and it is not stagnant, especially when I find something else which is better.

Posted by iafx > Oct 21, 2013 09:44 PM | Report Abuse

tks for reminding the world as early as jan the bonus have been predicted, is it u made that prediction? hahahahaa... wow u know so much ke? u r juz a COPIED CAT meow meow

I MADE THE PREDICTION OF THE BONUS ISSUE? HA, YOU THINK I AM PAUL THE ALAYAHAM OCTOPUS AH? OR I KNOW I KNOW I KNOW, IT WAS YOU WHO PREDICTED IT CORRECTLY. GOOD ONE THE SNAKE OIL SALESMAN.

Posted by iafx > Feb 17, 2013 12:16 PM | Report Abuse
ptaras a pick only bcos it is small & relately safe given its cash (also means $ not utilize); maybe could exercise bonus (hopefully not yet another private placement). given its outlook, it is actually too expensive already. given that price, there r a number of other counters worth better than this one. those who grabbed it during the 1.4-1.5 days a bless of god (no need say anything :). those who buy above 2.7 should continue to assess the viability of holding this counter. GCruey could have done a right thing by disposing it now & wait for next opportunity.

god bless u ptaras to issue 1:1 bonus share, good luck all :)

Good comments from nightshade.

[WA in discount do not offer a good gearing level compare to WA in premium.]

Your statement above is generally true. However, those warrants I have written and recommended have good gearing averaging about 3 times. Besides they are also mostly selling at discounts too.

Whereas those two warrants which are not recommended are selling at premiums and also low gearing of about 1.5.

Is it just a coincidence?

Think about it. If a warrant is selling at a high premium of say 50%, the underlying share has to move 50% before you get an intrinsic value equals to the price you pay. Unless the warrant has a long time to expiry, it is not easy for the underlying share to go up by 50% in a short time say one or two years.

And in an efficient market, the price of the underlying is generally is what the market thinks it is worth, unless you have some insider information about the company that nobody knows. If a magazine like Focus already know about this information and publishes it, how many other insiders and other people have already known about it?

Is a target price of RM1.50 realistic?

Posted by aunloke > Oct 21, 2013 08:49 PM | Report Abuse
No wonder you sing so high for pmcorp but let's be realistic if we assume 20% growth for pmcorp food business and after 10 years what would be the earning ? We should then roughly know or estimate its share price, mind you that for the last 10 years its food business was not impressive. However it does not mean that pmcorp has no value , at this price it can easily improve and I'm banging on that to make some money.

Lets take aunloke's assumptions and work out if the target price is achievable.

PMCorp made 8m last financial year. The net income will be about 50m in 10 years time with that 20% growth in NI assumption. with a total number of shares of 773m, EPS would be 6.4 sen. Giving a PE ratio of 10, the fair price is 64 sen. If the market wants to give a PE of 20 because it is such a high growth company, then the fair price is RM1.28. Don't forget PMCorp has a lot of excess cash in properties, cash and investments. If that can amount to 22 sen per share, then RM1.50 is achievable, isn't it?

But don't forget that an assumption of 20% growth rate for 10 years is a very liberal assumption. Business cycles, competitions etc can derail that optimism.

“丢粪文化” - ”损人不利己心态

First time heard of this meaningful phrase. Life is a long term learning, truly.

Some how those posts written in English and Chinese are more meaningful here. They are also more motivating.

This guy is already 青出於藍

Posted by houseofordos > Oct 21, 2013 08:40 PM | Report Abuse
kc, i must say that i am a beginner in investing with less than 10 yrs experience... partly due to my young age. before i joined i3 and read your posts I have no investment philosophy or backbone... always buying stocks based on rumors or based on so called analyst recommendations... This has cost me. in just less than 1 year I hv learnt to analyze stocks myself and start making good decisions myself after following your posts and reading more investment books. In fact This year alone my returns from stock market already exceed all my investment returns of all previous years combined ! So pls keep up your good posts and sharing here.

house, congrat that you have made good returns from the market.

Very happy that you think you have learned something from me. I always say learning how to fish is so much better than keeps on getting fish from others.

An investment in knowledge pays the best interest.
Benjamin Franklin

Posted by inwest88 > Oct 21, 2013 06:45 PM | Report Abuse
kcchongnz, as I mentioned earlier, there's no one in this forum who can match your detailed analysis in assessing a company and when you invite others to discuss further, all back out even some proclaim themselves as experts and lecturers. I was eyeing Homeritz last Friday when running through the day's closing and recall that is one of your stock picks. That gives me the confidence to make a small investment this morning at 44 sen.

inwest88, I think you are wrong here. There are some very knowledgeable people here in i3. It is just that they have better things to do and they do not write many posts here. I know because I have read some of their blogs, and their postings here.

You are also a bit unlucky following my stock picks. You bought the two which are lagging, Kfima and Homeritz. All others have gone up a lot; Pintaras, Datasonic, Fibon and even Daiman, MFCB if take into considerations of the dividends, have gone up considerably. In this two months, my new portfolio has risen by 14.3%, out-performed the KLSE by 12.8%. Talk about LS.

No lah, picking stocks using FA shouldn't yield that kind of high return in such a short period. Frankly, a lot of luck involved.

But I guess trying to find good companies selling at cheap price also works. And good companies selling at cheap prices can only be found in those un-followed, under or no research by investment banks and no hooha hooha hooha in the forums.

Posted by bsngpg > Oct 20, 2013 04:43 PM | Report Abuse
Next weekend when I have more time, I would like to ask for your opinion on calculation method on total return. My less than saving account return must be an error.

bsngpg, try follow this to calculate your total return and compounded annual return.

For example you bought Zhulian at RM1.00 5 years ago. Assuming its price has risen progressively to RM2.00 3 years later and to RM4.43 now. Each year you received dividends as shown.

Year 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013
No of year 0 1 2 3 4 5
Price, RM 1.00 1.20 1.35 1.50 2.00 4.43
Dividend, RM xxx 0.04 0.06 0.08 0.10 0.12

Three year holding
Price change 0.50
Dividend received 0.18
Total Value 0.68
Profit 68%
CAR 18.9%

to calculate the total return in 3 years, add the price change of 50 sen to all dividends received of 18 sen, equals 68 sen. so total return is 0.68/1.00 or 68% in three years.

To compute the compounded annual return or CAR, use this formula:

CAR=[(final share price +total dividend)/purchased price)]^(1/no. of years,n)-1

3 year CAR=[(1.50+0.18)/1.00]^(1/3)-1=18.9%

This you can compared with alternative investment like bank FD a year.

Similarly for 5 year total return and CAR:

Five year holding
Price change 3.43
Dividend received 0.40
Total Value 3.83
Profit 383%
CAR 37.0%

If you want to have more fun, you can try this:

Use no. of years from this formula: Years=(date now-date then)/365

And get the future value of the dividend to the year concerned assuming you are earning an interest rate. For example the 4 sen dividend can be compounded to year 3 using 4*(1+3%)^2=4.2 sen, assuming interest rate of 3%. But you can see this work is tedious but it doesn't affect much the result and hence unnecessary.

Hope the above helps

When I am wrong, I admit I am wrong. Like what I said about the return of Malaysian unit trust. Hey you think I am the oracle of Bursa or what? Can I be always right?

But I don't know why this guy want to specifically bring this up to try to ridicule me.

Posted by iafx > Oct 21, 2013 04:39 PM | Report Abuse
next time copied U.S statement, other investor statement, make sure u understood what is it about, don't wait 4 ppl pica u punya lobang then get angry. hahahaa...

I glance through the list of forumers on this page. Ha all my friends. That is why I like to lepak here in i3.

But my view of friends is, we should accept opposing view; like how I view TTB compared to how bsngpg does. I never say i am right and he is wrong. We all have our own opinion and we must respect each other. If you think I am wrong, tell me how am I wrong. No problem.

So in my opinion, don't be afraid to say it out even though you don't agree with others.

I started this thread about a month ago. Let us review what is the return of those company warrants shared. Most warrants recommended as good value are generally selling at discounts when they were written. Table 1 below shows the return of the underlying shares and their warrants.

The KLSE index has not moved at all since a month ago, It is still at about 1802. All the 8 warrants and their underlying shares (except for L&G Loan stock) recommended return with positive numbers, the highest being HapSeng with its underlying share and warrant increased by 15.5% and 51.4% respectively. This indicates the gearing and closing of discount effect of the warrant with respect to its underlying share.

The average return of the warrants recommended 16.0%, more than three times the average return of the underlying shares of 5.1%, also indicating the same things; the closing of the discounts and the gearing effect of derivatives. The closing of discount is also apparent for the L&G loan stock of which the underlying share dropped by 1.4% but LA increased by 2.3%.

Punchak Wb which was not recommended as buy because of its premium and low gearing is the only one gone into the negative territory. It lost 2.1% though the underlying share gone up by 3.5%. the other warrant, Redtone, which was not recommended moved a little.

So my conclusion is as expected. Buying company warrants at a discount and good gearing is a better strategy than buying warrants at premiums and low gearing and with active trading.

Table 1: Company Warrants
Then Now Gain/loss Recom?
Hapseng 2.19 2.53 15.5%
Wa 0.555 0.840 51.4% Yes

LBS 1.71 1.77 3.5%
Wa 0.75 0.815 8.7% Yes

Freight 1.50 1.62 8.0%
Wa 0.485 0.575 18.6% Yes

Pantech 0.985 1.03 4.6%
Wa 0.555 0.63 13.5% Yes

Gamuda 4.7 4.89 4.0%
Wd 2.01 2.20 9.5% Yes

IJM 5.78 5.81 0.5%
Wc 1.73 1.75 1.2% Yes

YTLP 1.78 1.89 6.2%
Wb 0.52 0.64 23.1% Yes

L&G 0.37 0.365 -1.4%
La 0.22 0.225 2.3% Yes


Redtone 0.700 0.700 0.0%
Wa 0.430 0.445 3.5% No

Punchak 3.14 3.25 3.5%
Wb 2.36 2.31 -2.1% No

Yes all my stocks shared came with long stories. But do you find any bullshitting? Any copy and paste from any analysts? No or very few analysts follow the stocks I am interested anyway.

Why do people accused me of doing so?

Hey don't forget to check it out my long term portfolio here:

http://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/pfs/13147.jsp

In this portfolio, please note that the price has not been adjusted with 1 for 1 bonus and dividend payments.

Talk about LS

bsngpg, the difference between you and me is that you did not "buy" my Pintaras and Fibon stories. I "bought" your Zhulian story. go goggle in i3 you will find me writing a lot about it. I would also "buy" your LPI.

Hey talking about LS, bsngpg, have you forgotten something. What about my Datasonic from 3.46 to 5.47 in less than 2 months? And look at the returns of my portfolio as shown below:

http://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/pfs/19386.jsp

So I BS, copy and paste, roti-canai or not?

Hey bsngpg, somebody said I was angry with you because you "peca u punya lobang", was I?

Posted by iafx > Oct 21, 2013 04:01 PM | Report Abuse
talking about expert:
Posted by kcchongnz > Oct 21, 2013 11:42 AM | Report Abuse
bsngpg, my statement about 75%-80% of the funds under-performed the market is for the research from the US market. My statement is wrong in the Malaysian context. ... bra ... bra... bar...
I guess the Malaysian market is not an efficient market as compared to the US market.
see Blog: [转帖] 陳鼎武：美債風險‧馬股漲勢欠穩

Posted by iafx > Oct 21, 2013 04:39 PM | Report Abuse
next time copied U.S statement, other investor statement, make sure u understood what is it about, don't wait 4 ppl pica u punya lobang then get angry. hahahaa...

Or was it him who was "angry" with his deep sighing?

Posted by iafx > Oct 21, 2013 11:57 AM | Report Abuse
sigh... 1 more thing, ttb explanation of icap stagnant fund is to go global, so global market is safe? think about it. if it is about 5 - 10 - 20 years from now, anyone can talk anything bro.
clearly ttb is making back door for himself, he is under pressure to perform better than his mouth & paper value. again, don't fool by words via media, u never know what's happen behind the closed door fun.
is it no other option in the market? think about it.

but don't worry about him. Compared with your knowledge, he is really like 小巫見大巫

Posted by iafx > Feb 26, 2013 10:43 AM | Report Abuse
bingo bingo bingo meow meow meow

THE FACT IS, YOU KNOW NOTHING, ABSOLUTE KOSONG. EXCEPT:

Posted by iafx > Feb 26, 2013 10:43 AM | Report Abuse
bingo bingo bingo meow meow meow

Posted by iafx > Oct 21, 2013 04:39 PM | Report Abuse

next time copied U.S statement, other investor statement, make sure u understood what is it about, don't wait 4 ppl pica u punya lobang then get angry. hahahaa...

I GOT ANGRY? OR DID I ADMIT THAT I USED IT IN THE WRONG CONTEXT? HEY I HAVE THOUSANDS OF POSTS WITH A LOT OF ANALYSIS AND FIGURES YOU COULD SCRUTINIZE AND FIND MISTAKES TO CRITICIZE. YOU STILL HAVEN'T FOUND ANYTHING YET TO CRITICIZE AH, INSTEAD OF USING THE ABOVE WHICH I HAVE ALREADY SAID I USED IN THE WRONG CONTEXT, EVEN YOU WON'T KNOW AT ALL. tHIS I CAN BET WITH YOU. YOU WON'T KNOW IF THE RETURN OF THE MALAYSIAN UNIT TRUSTS.

ptaras refused to set div policy, bonus issued improve poor liquidity but inevitably dilute earning.

"离谱的价格还坚守长期投资不出 售， 冷眼认为你就不是做股票投资的料子."

yr $ yr choice!

BONUS ISSUE DILUTE THE EARNINGS TO SHAREHOLDERS WHO HAVE NOW THE DOUBLE NUMBER OF SHARES? TRUE OR NOT?

Posted by iafx > Feb 17, 2013 12:16 PM | Report Abuse
there is no securities house covering this counter - why? no need to reply here, go & do yr homework.

SO NO SECURITIES HOUSES COVERING NO GOOD? >100% RETURN IN LESS THAN A YEAR NO GOOD?

what a joke, tons of books/www/classes/software nowadays on how to read statement, find figure etc etc; what's so aiyaya about being able to read paper? especially copy & bs around it... sigh.

simple, should paper fact is so accurate, why ppl still cannot make enough based on it, why market does not respond accordingly since it is sooooo good as tau-fu claimed it is? in fact, many make loses following these papers, not to mention those who followed bs story.

OH, MANY PEOPLE LOST MONEY IN PINTARAS BECAUSE THE “PARE” FACTS OF PINRATAS TOO GOOD?

ptaras solely a family business, no liquidity, core value is never about retail investors, they would rather place $ into private fun(d). mega infra prjs r not forever, after ge13 many will realize "lots of prjs in hand" on the "paper", but only few r running & probably not running at the size stated, not to mention not all running prjs make good $ - what u read is only lum-sum, data in the passed.

???? ONE HEAD FULL OF DEW WATER!

ptaras a pick only bcos it is small & relately safe given its cash (also means $ not utilize); maybe could exercise bonus (hopefully not yet another private placement). given its outlook, it is actually too expensive already. given that price, there r a number of other counters worth better than this one. those who grabbed it during the 1.4-1.5 days a bless of god (no need say anything :). those who buy above 2.7 should continue to assess the viability of holding this counter. GCruey could have done a right thing by disposing it now & wait for next opportunity.

TOO EXPENSIVE ALREADY AT RM2.70? WHICH “OTHER” COUNTERS WORTH BETTER THAN THIS? NEVER MENTIONED ALSO.
SEE YOU MADE SO MANY PEOPLE LOST THE CHANCE OF MAKING BIG MONEY BY ASKING THEM TO SELL AT 2.70 8 MONTHS AGO. STILL TRY TO WAIT FOR 1.4-1.5 TO GRAB AH?

god bless u ptaras to issue 1:1 bonus share, good luck all :)

1:1 BONUS NEEDS GOD’S BLESSING AH?

Posted by iafx > Jan 2, 2013 11:29 AM | Report Abuse

mountain of facts or BS? all yr data first copied from other reports not made by u, then uses theory/formula which can be found on www, books, lastly add a bit of your emotion. Yeah, that's a lot of fact - to hard sell the counter?

BS? THE PRICE HAS MORE THAN DOUBLE SINCE YOU USED THE TERM BS. SO HOW AH?

let's see when ptaras would announce bonus issue, or maybe just private placement. by then, whether what you said here is a fact, or merely just market talk.

PRIVATE PLACEMENT AH? FOR WHAT AH? PINTARAS NEEDS EXTRA CASH MEH? DOESN'T SEEM LIKE WOH. IT CONTINUES TO GIVE MORE AND MORE GENEROUS DIVIDENDS WOH.

btw, no body try to change you ... no one would bother, it's just view, cannot take it? ... hahaha.

Posted by iafx > Jan 2, 2013 09:50 AM | Report Abuse
ptaras is poor in liquitity, regardless of trading or investing, it's a classic family controlled business, little to no transparency, this is one point to remember when buy into this counter

WOW, LUCKILY I DIDN'T FOLLOW THE "EXSPURT" ABOVE AND NOT INVESTED IN PINTARAS OF POOR LIQUIDITY, FAMILY CONTROLLED BUSINESS, NO TRANSPARENCY BRA BRA BRA. I BOUGHT IT 4 YEARS AGO AT 1.37. I CONTINUE TO BUY IT EVEN AT 2.65 A YEAR AGO.


ptaras placed large amount of $$$ into fund/asset management. cash is preserved for their own good.

AND I RECEIVED A LOT OF DIVIDEND EVERY YEAR. FROM 10 SEN A SHARE 5 YEARS AGO TO NOW 25 SEN. HAVE YOU GUYS RECEIVED THEM?


there is question if ptaras can maintain a 20c div, while 10c should be norm.

10 SEN? BUT I AM GOING TO RECEIVE A TOTAL OF 25 SEN WOH FOR THIS YEAR.

Posted by lching > Oct 21, 2013 03:16 PM | Report Abuse
febregas88.....usually the price will react accordingly, that is half of the current price.
even though today the broader market is flat, the price should appreciate at least 1 ringgit with this good news!!!


PINTARAS IS 6.22 NOW. IF AFTER THE 1:1 BONUS AND SHARE PRICE ADJUSTED TO HALF OF IT, OR 3.11, IT IS STILL 15% ABOVE 2.70. LUCKILY I DID NOT FOLLOW THE "EXPERT" BELOW AND SOLD PINTARAS AT 2.70. I WOULD HAVE LOST THE GAIN OF 134% (INCLUDE 10 SEN DIVIDEND RECEIVED)IN JUST ABOUT HALF A YEAR.


Posted by iafx
[ptaras a pick only bcos it is small & relately safe given its cash (also means $ not utilize); maybe could exercise bonus (hopefully not yet another private placement). given its outlook, it is actually too expensive already. given that price, there r a number of other counters worth better than this one. those who grabbed it during the 1.4-1.5 days a bless of god (no need say anything :). those who buy above 2.7 should continue to assess the viability of holding this counter. GCruey could have done a right thing by disposing it now & wait for next opportunity.

Posted by Avocado_C > Oct 21, 2013 01:43 PM | Report Abuse

Mr Chong, I try to answer your questions to my question:

1) Just because that KLCI is made of the 30 index companies and with P/E of 15-16, doesn't mean that all other companies are overpriced.


Like like like!

猜股市如抓黄鳝
Mon, 01 Oct 2007
“股市还会起吗？”
这是我最常被问到的问题。
我的回答一律是“不知道”。
我知道询问者会感到失望，甚至心里还会抱怨。
他们认为我自私，明明是知道的，却不肯跟他们分享预测股市动向的心得。
实际上，“不知道”是我最诚实、最诚恳的答复。
我确实不知道明天，下个月或明年股市会怎样，我也不认为有谁有这样的本领。
如果我真的知道的话，我一定乐于跟大家分享，就好像我乐于跟大家分享我的基本面投资心得
一样。
心得犹如井水
心得，犹如井水。
你无论打了多少桶水，井水都不会减少。
心得，绝对不会因与人分享而减少。我又何必“深藏不露”？
在我学习股票投资的初期，我也好像千千万万的股友那样，认为只要能准确地预测股市或个别
股项的起落，我就非发不可。
所以，我把重点放在预测股市上。
我花了很多时间去读有关图表和时机（TIMING）的书。
我跟股市老将交换抓“时机”的心得。
我也通过各种管道，探听消息，我当时认为，消息灵通，是投资致胜之道。
但是都没有用。
我在股市中赚了又亏，亏了又赚，在投资路上撞撞跌跌了几年，一结算，财富不增反减。
更甚的是，在这期间内，内心的焦虑，精神上的压力，使我精疲力倦。
我发现我根本是在浪费时间。
我开始彻底检讨我的投资策略，大量阅读投资大师的著作，吸收他们的投资智慧。
我终于“悟道”了。
“我找到了”是我当时的感觉。
研究公司基本面
我不再猜测股市，而把全部的时间和精力，花在基本面的研究上。
从此以后，我再也没有回头。
摒弃猜测股市，全力以赴研究个别公司的基本面，为我带来了意想不到的成果，因此时间愈久，
信“道”之心愈坚。
更重要的，是我不再为股价的波动而烦恼，我可以安心工作，生活过得舒适愉快。
其实，我所悟出来的道理，一点也不新鲜，甚至可以说是老生常谈。
真的是又老土，又简单。
那就是“买股票就是买公司的股份”。
“买股份就是参股做生意”。
“所以，公司比股市重要”。
长期投资累积财富
“投机不可能累积财富，只有长期投资才能”。
实际上，这些老土的道理，是前人投资智慧的结晶。
无数的人，殚精竭虑，“发明”新的方法，都没有一样经得起时间的考验。
我从此不再浪费时间去猜测股市的动向了。
第一、是因为股市根本是不可预测的。
第二、是股票投资赚钱根本不需要靠预测股市。
股市有如黄鳝，浑身滑溜溜，你根本无法抓住它。
一个曾经做过鱼贩的老同学告诉我抓黄鳝的“秘诀”。
他说：“黄鳝吃软不吃硬，所以只能‘托’，不能用力‘抓’。”
要把黄鳝由水桶中抓起，放进塑胶袋中卖掉，最有效的方法，是以手掌，轻轻地把黄鳝由水中
托起，托的位置要适当，然后慢慢地、不慌不忙地把它送进塑胶袋中。
不能用力捏，否则，它感到不舒服，就会挣扎，你无论多么用力，都会从你手中溜走。
抓黄鳝，紧不如松，快不如慢，刚不如柔，巧不如拙。
股市也一样，你盯得太紧，企图预测它的动向，它偏偏跟你作对。
许多股友，千方百计，企图“捕捉”股市的起落，结果都徒劳无功，就好像用力抓黄鳝，始终
抓不住一样。
焦点集中公司业绩
最好的方法，是远离股市，不太在意它的波动，把焦点集中在公司的业绩表现上，反而更易
“驯服”股市。就好像轻轻托起，反而更能将黄鳝“制服”一样。
股市的波动，就好像黄鳝的不断蠕动一样，是正常的，不必去理会它。
采取反向策略，低价买进好股，就不动如山。
只要公司业绩不断上升，就不卖。
不要理会股市短期的波动，不必担心你的股票不会起，因为当公司赚钱越来越多时，股价必然
会同步上升。
股市于我何有哉？
此之谓投资正道。

Avocado, let me ask you some questions to your question.
1) Is the market that grossly overvalued now?
2) How is it compared to the crazy second board market in the mid 1990s?
3) How is the market compared to the internet craze in the late 1990s.
4) How is the market compared to the 1987 markets, 1929, etc?

This is what a very famous investor Mark Howard said about macro economic thingy,

“We don’t know what lies ahead in terms of the macro future. Few people if any know more than the consensus about what’s going to happen to the economy, interest rates and market aggregates. Thus, the investor’s time is better spent trying to gain a knowledge advantage regarding ‘the knowable’: industries, companies and securities. The more micro your focus, the great the likelihood you can learn things others don’t.” Focusing on the simplest possible system (an individual company) is the greatest opportunity for an investor since a company is understandable in a way which may reveal a mispriced bet. Howard Marks puts it simply: “We don’t make macro bets.”

house, fully agree with you. Instead of TTB holding my cash, I prefer to have the control of my cash. Don't forget, the cash he holds shareholders have to pay 2-3% in management expense ratio each year.

But again whose interest he is looking after, yours or his? After distributing that dividend to you, he has less asset under management and hence less management fees.

That is why icap never pay dividend until the last one.