Philip,

You are moving the goal post of the discussion. Earlier, your comments were in relation to capex cost, operational expenses and charge rates. These were then clearly addressed by DK66 and acknowledged by you.

And now, you are saying there will be moral hazard issues by the project owners. This looks like an argument with no answer. Who is to know what is going to happen in the future? Do we know for sure that the project owners are on the take or will practice some kind of commercial fraud in the future?

This looks like an all-encompassing 'factor' that will win an argument. Threading along the same line of thought, are you certain that the next generation of QL will continue to be as competent as the present line-up? Will Buffett's successors continue to be as honest as he is now? There is no answer to these questions because these are human factors that will or will not occur in the future.

I am not looking for a fight with you. I am merely pointing out a glaring 'arguing for the sake of arguing'. Yes, we know you do not like Jaks. Nothing will convince you to like it. But you have to be fair in presenting your case.

Should you want to rebutt to this comment, please let it be known that I will not be posting another comment to counter you. It will be endless bickering of no benefits.

Just to share my experience. Yes, I do think that there are not many contra players in Jaks. It is not because there is no interest but because the market makers for Jaks is very good.

On top of my long term hold shares, I tried playing contra on Jaks (for some greedy quick gains) and it is very difficult to earn from Jaks via contra play. This is especially so if you are talking about share quantum that requires moving a few ticks as I have tried. These guys are sharp. And they know what they are doing.

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Posted by Windy1974 > Apr 5, 2019 10:30 AM | Report Abuse

Well, let me share with you my observation. JAKS did 12m on 1 April and 3m 4th April. When i write this at 10.20am, 1m. What it tells me is that not many contra players in JAKS, if any.

Good thinking by Icon.

Experience is not something you can get from reading investment books.

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Posted by Icon8888 > Apr 5, 2019 11:30 AM | Report Abuse

CFO can be trying to be tax efficient

If he holds on until RM4, let's say, he has to pay huge tax as it is part of remuneration

Sell now and use proxy to buy back. That will save on tax as capital gain is tax free in Malaysia for non remuneration related transactions

This is just one possibility.

Second level thinking, folks

In stock market, when something happens in the open , it is usually meaningless

The juicy parts always happen under the radar

DK66, I remember you were lamenting about low readership of 1 or 2 articles you posted. Don't worry about such things. It is not important. Readership count does not determine if what you write is good or not. Readership has more to do with which stock is hot now. If the stock is currently hot in play, any article posted will garner more clicks. Jaks has been out of the limelight for a while now so it is not surprising that there are few followers of Jaks now. With fewer followers, naturally there will be less people clicking on your articles.

Just write if your good intention is to share info with other Jaks investors like myself. Sharing with true investors who are interested derives more value than sharing with any Ali, Ah Chong and Muthu who are hoping for some senseless rumour tips.

Intrinsic value. I lose interest when anyone insists and justifies that their intrinsic value of a company is true while everyone else's version have this flaw and that flaw. We often see the "you are stupid to be paying above the intrinsic value of the company" or something similar to that effect. It simply rings a shallow person is at work here.

A truly knowledgable investor will know that you cannot value intrinsic value with any form of certainty. Everyone has a different perspective of how things are and that determines the values they attach to variables input into determining the intrinsic value of a company. I'll say nobody is correct and nobody in wrong. If your version of the intrinsic value is as concrete as you claim it to be, then it should not be called intrinsic value anymore - that's the true value.

Does it not then makes us wonder, if an intrinsic value of a company defers based on who worked the numbers, then how reliable is intrinsic value? If this 'intrinsic value' is of so little reliablity, then why even bother using it for valuation purpose?

Corporate guys do it because they have an ulterior motive - that is to inflate their valuation as high as possible; the more unknowns there are, the more room there is to play with numbers. We investors are the buyers, not the sellers. Is it then correct for us buyers to adopt this unreliable 'intrinsic value' for us to make investment decisions? Or do we sometimes calculate our own intrinsic value to self justify our investment decision?

There are many other methods to value a company out there. Why choose an unreliable one?

Jon's definition of terminal value is based upon the perpetuity method. There is another method called the exit multiple. Neither I am in favour of.

Personally, a decent DCF goes up to 5 years. 10 years is pushing it. Anything after 10 years is a cari makan valuation i.e. low reliability. Terminal value involves forecasting into the infinite. Too many variables, too much uncertainties - basically a bullshit valuation prepared by paid professionals engaged by corporates who are trying to cook their valuations.

This thread is a rarity in i3. For once we are having intellectual value-adding discussion without (direct) insults being thrown and talking down of one another.

Good thinking, qqq3. Here's the difference between those who are in Bursa by the books vs those who have swam in the big sea.

Those by the books would have have calculating this and that and formed whatever 'best' strategy the world can offer on Jaks-WB. Or they may even reference Jaks-WB's share price rise for their future investments. But the key point is, is it executable in real life?

Experienced players however would have known that regardless of what super strategy you have, it is not executable because there is simply no volume for you to buy in a meaningful quantum. The warrants were mainly subscribed by Andy Ang and his gang. (And some by Icon, of course). They are not selling. They are just throwing peanuts out for market making. Look at Jaks-WB volume. The only way to buy in big quantum is to buy up many many ticks. That will be foolish to say the least.

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qqq3 Jaks W % looks impressive But how to Q?

so , in the jaks those who buy mother makes money in $ terms.
12/03/2019 11:22

Today is T+10. Big brother roll-over their shares

This article is a finger diarrhea. Lots of words, lots of trying to sound sophisticated, lots of trying to be knowledageable etc. but has no substance, no accuracy, no supporting facts and no value to anyone who reads it.

This article is an attention seeking attempt by the author.

An absolute waste of time.

I think you've been watching the technical chart. Good job!

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Posted by meisarel > Mar 6, 2019 04:13 PM | Report Abuse

John_Lee. Maybe it was pure luck. Glad to join Jaks bandwagon.

qqq3,

That's funny. Good one.

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Posted by qqq3 > Mar 6, 2019 04:15 PM | Report Abuse

Posted by Icon8888 > Mar 5, 2019 06:45 PM | Report Abuse

How to become contrarian in life ? Kindly enlighten
============

shout fire, jump into the room.....

girl goes naked, think of wife.....

meisarel,

You join the bandwagon at a good time. Welcome to the Jaks gravy train!

WiseEye, clap clap clap! I like the way you think

lizi, yes you are correct.

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Posted by lizi > Feb 28, 2019 11:57 PM | Report Abuse

paid in Jan but today report is for end december...today report, in jaks book seem still have 50m......

lizi,

On 16 Jan, the company announced that payment was released on 9 Jan. Link below:

http://www.bursamalaysia.com/market/listed-companies/company-announcements/6037925

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Posted by lizi > Feb 28, 2019 08:23 PM | Report Abuse

John_Lee, I think the 50m has not been paid yet. Still in Jaks pocket.....so whatever we see now will be reduced by 50m probably next quarter....

i3lurker,

I am curious on your persistent claim that Jaks needs to do another RI for cash. Looking at the balance sheet, current assets of RM1.176b exceeds current liabilities of RM1.026m. The RM50m bank guarantee has already been paid. Also a large chunk of current liabilities is related to the Vietnam project which requires no actual cash payments due to how the Vietnam project was structured.

Could you please elaborate specifically on why an RI is 'for sure'?

qqq3,

I think for a company with significant overseas operations, it is not fair to look at the PBT level as "Gain/(Loss) On Foreign Exchange" is part and parcel of running a non-domestic business.

In the past, when we look at PBT, "Gain/(Loss) On Foreign Exchange" was above the PBT line. Due to change in presentation format, "Gain/(Loss) On Foreign Exchange" is now below the PBT line.

As to the effect on share price, I believe market has already factored in the RM50 bank guarantee payment

i3lurker,

Suggest you learn how to read financial statements before you comment about financial results.


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Posted by i3lurker > Feb 28, 2019 06:18 PM | Report Abuse

loss RM48 million

tomorrow limit down

Cheers!

Result is quite good.

Loss of RM12.7m included the half share of RM50m bank guarantee payment. That means operational wise the quarter made RM12.3m

LKOH, you read the report wrongly.

Reversal of impairment = 20,781m - 1,782m = 18,999m gain

Forex = 15,427 - 15,433 = 6m loss

Net impact of impairment and forex is 18,993m gain. Balance of 78,731m is mostly operational gains.

Perdana is a subsidiary, not associate. Perdana's reversal of impairment already consolidated in the above figures.

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Posted by LKOH > Feb 22, 2019 06:00 PM | Report Abuse

About 66 million profit comes from reversal of impairment and Forex gains... also associate company Perdana is due to rereversal of impairment

i3lurker, what nonsense are you talking about talking about dividends from Jaks. Jaks is not a dividend play counter. You sure you know where you are putting your money into?

There are many reasons to justify to yourself if you say no to O&G in your portfolio. And that is fine because every investment has its risks.

But those who condemn O&G counters on the argument of the emergence of renewable energy are living in la la land.

Is renewable energy a threat? Yes.

When is it going to be a serious threat? Not soon.

How big a threat is renewable energy going to be in 1 year, 5 years, 10 years, 20 years from now? Nobody knows.

So why dont these people just buy renewable energy counters? But they cannot because these renewable energy counters are in the infancy stage, profit track-record is not proven, future is uncertain etc. Then how? Both sides of source of energy also cannot buy.

To me, renewable energy is the future. But while it still cannot commercially affect O&G in a significant manner, O&G is still going to be the main source of energy for mankind. And let us be rational; we are not going to wake up one day to find O&G suddenly obsolete. Change of energy source is not an over-night event thing.

What are these people who comment like this spending so much talking about O&G and renewable energy trying to achieve? Nothing more than syiok sendiri and wasting bandwidth.

qqq3, sslee is the saviour of mankind from injustice. Saviour of the people. All hail sslee. Zzzzz...

WiseEye,

1. No provision has been previously made. Management announced that "RM25.5 million will be charged off in the financial statements of JRB Group for the quarter ended 31 December 2018".

2. Kcchong will tell you that your understanding of cash flows vs share price is inaccurate. When the initial court judgement was made, market had already factored in this cash outflow, resulting in the fall of Jaks' share price. Today's share price is the present value of the company's projected future cash flows. You don't have to wait for the actual cash transaction to adjust the company's valuation.

3. Real cash flow is not affected as the amount was previously sitting in FD which is charged to the bank. It is idle cash that cannot be used. Why the need for fund raising to top up cash that has been set aside?

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Posted by WiseEye > Jan 18, 2019 01:47 AM | Report Abuse

John Lee, your analysis is flawed because when Jaks made the provision of 50m in their books, it is merely an expense in PL and hence does not affect cash flow. Now that the BG is released, there is an actual cash outflow of 50m out from their bank accounts, a devastating blow for cash flow analysts like KC Chong.

The official announcement proved to a real pain now that u need to hand the cash over to Star. It’s now a realized loss and no longer a paper loss. That makes a huge difference to it’s working capital management and operational cash flows. If these are not managed well, they might request for another round of funding.

Up slow and steady please. No point rocketing only to collapse back

Raider, cut your losses here. Too many of your detractors in this chatroom. You have your method, they have yours. There's not going to be a compromise. No one is completely correct, neither is anyone comepletely wrong.

No point getting yourself all worked up.

qqq3, I just have to let my heart say something out. I was trying to hold back but this Sslee's postings are so annoying. Can see that long number guy also losing patience with him.

Roy 8,

There will not be any more share price effect of this BG issue when QR is released. Market has already know of this RM25.5 million. When the amount is reflected in the QR, it is no longer news. A knowledgeable person will discount this amount from his QR analysis. Share price will only react to a surprise; a previously unknown matter/occurrence.

A real life (but not apple to apple) example. Last night after 4D result was released, you took a look and see that none of the winning numbers were yours. You hence accepted that you didnt win. This morning, before you throw your 4D chit away, you double check the numbers. Yup, you didnt win. Will there be any element of surprise that your didnt win? Will there even be a skip of heartbeat? No. Because you already knew you didnt win. This checking is just a confirmation of something you already knew. I hope this makes sense.

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Posted by Roy 8 > Jan 17, 2019 10:14 AM | Report Abuse

jaks is going a report a loss in Q4 after losing the court case with Star Media. watch the downside risk.

qqq3, well we have already established that Sslee is weird. After this comment, maybe he will write and dedicate another article to the 2 of us for calling him weird.

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qqq3 The novice teaching Koon about share market....this arrogant novice will liberally throw out words such as humility etc and thank yous too....

Without Aseng id in Jaks, will the rest of us continue to enjoy the Aseng id positive effect?

Yes Halite. You are correct, they are indeed missing now. So quiet.

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Posted by Aseng > Jan 16, 2019 05:01 PM | Report Abuse

Where are my Bibo... Bibo... Bibo friends?

Those who wait, earn less and ask 'Why didnt I buy earlier?'.

Those who dare to take the risk early earn the big bucks.

All about risk and returns.

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Posted by qqq3 > Jan 16, 2019 04:47 PM | Report Abuse

mneo > Jan 16, 2019 01:29 PM | Report Abuse

Only consider buy JAKs when they finish the properties project..
===========

why don't u say, consider only when Jaks is > $1.....

ytk666, T+4 is only significant when T purchases were largely made by contra players. Question is how do we actually know that the big volume means the purchasers were contra players? Most of the time it is the market operators who are crossing from left hand to right hand and vice versa. To make it even more difficult to assess, operators have margin accounts, T+4, T+7 and T+10 facilities.

Unless you possess the detailed daily transactions list, T+4 is a lousy indicator.

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Posted by ytk666 > Jan 16, 2019 04:41 PM | Report Abuse

Today T+4 are well absorbed. Tomorrow will be a new challenge.

Good close at 46 sen today with good show of buy strength towards the end of trading.

Positive signs for tomorrow!

lizi,

If this warrant issue is a fund raising exercise and if they want the exercise to succeed, the directors would have spoken to major shareholders to obtain their support prior to proceeding. This is standard procedure. As an example, Sapura Energy spoke to and obtained green light from its cornerstone investor PNB prior to proposing its rights issue.

CEO Andy obviously did not seek KYY for support. This exercise is a “chase KYY out” plan.

Investing is not only about studying the company’s earnings, cash flows, balance sheet etc. If that is all it takes, all analysts will be super rich.

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Posted by lizi > Dec 15, 2018 02:38 PM | Report Abuse

John Lee, I am not saying the warrant is bad. I saw someone put up an argument about Andy subscribing the warrant as "hidden buy call catalyst". To me, it is irrelevant event in determining buy or sell. I view it as needed fund raising.

If you are owner, when your company in trouble, like it or not, u need to pour in more cash to ride out this tough times, right?

lizi,

Using your logic, I put it another way for you.

You believe sendiri propose then sendiri must subscribe. If Andy Ang knows the warrant is bad, and if he propose it he must use his own money to subscribe, then why did he propose the warrant? So that he can throw money into the sea?

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Posted by lizi > Dec 14, 2018 07:27 PM | Report Abuse

Sendiri propose right but dun subscribe..where got so idixt one...nothing to do meh

Why do everyone assume that only KYY can push the share price of Jaks up?

According to KYY, he only started buying Jaks at RM1.10

If that is the case, then who pushed the share price up up up from 40 sen prior to KYY’s entrance?

Think about it.

lizi,

They proposed the warrants as directors. They bought the warrants as entitled shareholders. Dont get the hats mixed up.

Directors dont have to commit to buy just because they proposed the issuance.

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Posted by lizi > Dec 14, 2018 07:07 PM | Report Abuse

Because they are the owners, they propose, no choice got to subscribe. they need the money. so nothing special here.

beinvested,

Sounds like you now agree with the article that KYY was outplayed.

Unsubscribed warrants: already announced yesterday and finalised. Pls see yesterday’s announcement.

Directors quietly buy: Why quietly buy? They have already openly tell the world they bought the warrants

beinvested,

We all know that the warrant is not attractive at the current mother price - which explains the 37% subscription rate.

The smart question to ask will be: "If ordinary shareholders are not buying, then why are the CEO and his gang subscribing to their share of warrants in full?"

Is this not the same as when we see directors buying company shares? When you see announcements of directors buying company shares, what is your impression?

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Posted by beinvested > Dec 14, 2018 05:39 PM | Report Abuse

I found that the article with the title "Jaks - Winner Andy Ang" is just not convincing.

The Warrant is RM0.25 each. The conversion price is RM0.64, so the cost to have one share is RM0.89 already.

The current share price is RM0.44 each. Hence, this corporate exercise is not attractive. Not only the CEO, but anyone will have to subscribe more excessive warrants in order to increase their percentage of shareholdings.

Having so much unsubscribed warrants left, who will take up the available warrants when it is not free of charge.

qqq3 and i3lurker,

Regarding this RM300m current liability you are discussing, I believe that this is an accounting entry for the Vietnam IPP. And the liability amount is covered by similarly large debit entries in current assets. There are no detailed information provided in the audited accounts or quarterly reports. Based on the little available information in the notes to the audited accounts, here are the movement of the said accounts:

Current Asset: Other Receivables
31 December 2016 - RM62.8 million
31 December 2017 - RM249.8 million

Current Liabilities: Advance Payment On Construction Contract
31 December 2016 - RM101.9 million
31 December 2017 - RM276.9 million

The above accounts include many other transactions. But if you look at the quantum of movement involved from 2016 and 2017, it is likely that the debit and credit movements are for the same transactions.

If my interpretation is correct, it doesnt look like this liability will have any cash flow effect. Merely book entries.

calvintaneng,

What are your understanding for a company to be classified as PN17?

Please elaborate. Thanks.

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Posted by calvintaneng > Dec 14, 2018 03:39 PM | Report Abuse

Satan's bouncer telling big lies
Jaks must sell everything above 40 sen
Then see if it breaks 35 sen
If broken then will end in pn17

Calvintaneng is so naive

lizi,

Got to read this article with david_tan previous article. Share price down because KYY sold his shares. But KYY sold his shares because Andy Ang planned this warrant to force KYY to sell. If KYY doesnt sell, then KYY must buy the warrants. If KYY doesnt sell and doesnt buy warrant, then KYY will get diluted.

—————

lizi how u know share price drop is because of AA and not uncle disposal?
13/12/2018 20:23

Alex,

I think david_tan made a good point when he said this is not a true fund raising exercise

Alex,

Current ratio is decent af 1.26

—————

Posted by Alex™ > Dec 13, 2018 07:47 PM | Report Abuse

Rights issue no ppl subscribe, how to fund the business?

Subscription rate of 37.52%

On behalf of the Board, UOBKH wishes to announce that as at the close of acceptance, excess application and payment for the Rights Issue of Warrants at 5.00 p.m. on Thursday, 6 December 2018, the total acceptances and excess applications for the Rights Issue of Warrants were 102,428,430 Warrants, which represents an under-subscription of 62.48% over the total number of Warrants available for subscription under the Rights Issue of Warrants. Based on the total acceptances and excess applications, the gross proceeds raised from the Rights Issue of Warrants amounts to RM25.61 million.

http://www.bursamalaysia.com/market/listed-companies/company-announcements/6005573