Still dare not swear ah? Swear here!!!!!

That "hantu" dare not swear in Kfima thread that he didn't change "revenue" to "profit". So when is this "ghost" going to make the swearing that you did not do it?

Hey cheater, am I good or not? All those "pass" are in green. And all those "fail" in red.

TanKW,
Good effort. Something bothers me. How come all those stocks which I gave a pass using the cold Eye 5 yardsticks are all in green and those which failed are all in red? Did you manipulate the results? It is unusual.

What is the intrinsic value of GUH?

Posted by mlg123 > Aug 11, 2013 02:07 PM | Report Abuse
Hi KC,
it is interesting to see how you calculate the intrinsic value of MFCB but I still do not really get it.
As I had invested in GUH, it will be useful if you can show me how to calculate the intrinsic value of GUH.
thanks a lot

I remember I have commented before that GUH is a value stock if you are looking for a cheap property stock but with reasonable financial performance to invest in. Below is my EPV for GUH based on the last two years financials. The assumptions are ebit margin averaging 13%, tax rate 23%, net capex about 4.5m as shown, cost of capital 10%. Please note these limitations.

Revenue 280386
EBIT 35721 13%
NOPAT=EBIT*(1-tax rate) 27581 23%
Average maintenance capex -16741
Add average D&A 12282
Normalised EBIT 23122
Cost of capital, R 10%
Capitalized earnings=Nor Ebit/R 231287
Add cash 160286
Add others 0
Less debts -117
EPV 391456
Less minority interest 0
EPV to common shareholders 391456
Number of shares 185414
EPV/share 2.11 >
Margin of safety 36%

The intrinsic value is RM2.11.

Posted by Trillion > Aug 11, 2013 06:11 PM | Report Abuse
I am done with KCchong........he does not know when to quit! If you are wrong , you are wrong. It's not a game to see who is right anyway. Accurate means money, that all.

Well both of us have presented our case. Who is right or wrong is not up to you to claim. It has to be from a knowledgeable third party. Agreed?

Btw, you are still welcome to commend on any of my post, if you wish of course.

FIRST YOU POSTED THAT WE "SHIOK SENDIRI" AND OTHER THINGS HERE:

Posted by Trillion > Aug 9, 2013 12:05 PM | Report Abuse
Hahaha Grandma, you will learn these guys are shiok sendiri team. Information provided no guarantee of accuracy. .......lol they also cannot take question one ......leave critism.......

Posted by Trillion > Aug 9, 2013 11:22 PM | Report Abuse
Someone alredi pointed out the FA mistake.....OTB, read lah......hahahahaha. Enjoy yourself OTB making everyone here especially Inwest88 and Tonylim.

Hahaha
What is Operating income/profit? Net income is after all taxes and OP is before....so how lah?


THEN YOU SAID THIS:

Posted by Trillion > Aug 10, 2013 10:39 PM | Report Abuse
I am just an avid reader here......I do appreciate Kcchong and OTB rational argument, that's why I bother giving my opinion.....


LATER YOU SOME MORE WANT AN APOLOGY FROM ME.

Posted by Trillion > Aug 11, 2013 01:38 PM | Report Abuse
Firstly search wiki first....otherwise ppl claim I put u down again. If you cannot find let me know. I will show you. And when I do, the term "financial income" I expect an apology because you wanted specific but did not do your homework!!!

WHAT IS YOUR ACTUAL MOTIVE?

NOW YOU TALK ABOUT WIKI. YEAH THAT STATEMENT IN THE LINK YOU SHOWED DOES SHOW "FINANCIAL INCOME" WHICH SHOWS THAT I COULD BE WRONG FOR SAYING THAT SHOULD NOT BE "FINANCIAL INCOME", BUT "FINANCE INCOME". AM I REALLY WRONG?

FIRST OF ALL YOU MUST KNOW THAT IF YOU GO AND DO A POSTGRADUATE COURSE AND YOU HAVE TO DO SOME LITERATURE REVIEWS. YOU GO AND CITE WIKPEDIA ON SOME DEFINITION AND STATEMENTS. DO YOU KNOW THAT YOUR ASSIGNMENT WILL BE GIVEN A "FAIL"? SERIOUS! IS WIKI THE AUTHORITY IN THIS STUFF? I SUGGEST YOU GO TO INTERNATIONAL ACCOUNTING STANDARD BOARD AND SEE THEIR FORMAT OF INCOME STATEMENT. FOR EASY REFERENCE, YOU CAN COPY AND PASTE THE FOLLOWING LINK.

http://www.ifrs.org/Current-Projects/IASB-Projects/Financial-Statement-Presentation/Phase-B-OCI/Documents/OCIFAQ.pdf

THE ABOVE LINK CLEARLY SPELT OUT HOW A STANDARD INCOME STATEMENT LOOKS LIKE. VERY COMPREHENSIVE.

BTW, WHAT IS YOUR MOTIVE IN THE FIRST PLACE WHEN YOU STARTED COMMENTING THAT WE "SHIOK SENDIRI"?

There are a number of profit margin commonly talked about; gross margin, operating margin (same as ebit), and net profit margin. The margins are worked out based on gross margin=gross profit/revenue, operating margin=operating profit/revenue, and net profit margin=net profit/revenue. I like to use another profit margin, NOPAT, that is net operating profit after tax, which I always use to calculate return of invested capital (ROIC). I do know the revenue of associates and jv are not included in the top line. Those are all according to convention.

So when I compute my return of equity (ROE), I use net profit/equity and ROIC=NOPAT/Invested capital. They are all appropriately used for each equation. do you see anything wrong with these?

Tell me how you get your net profit margin for CBIP and what is it?

Posted by Trillion > Aug 11, 2013 01:38 PM | Report Abuse
Firstly search wiki first....otherwise ppl claim I put u down again. If you cannot find let me know. I will show you. And when I do, the term "financial income" I expect an apology because you wanted specific but did not do your homework!!!
I state again what I wrote earlier last para

Expect an apology? I would if I am proven wrong. No problem. But have you showed me any income statement with a line showing "financial income" which you take to mean to include associates, jv etc?

What you shown in your link is "finance income" (not financial income) which is like what I have said stuff like interest income, Fixed deposit, interest rate swap etc.

What the hack is your financial income? Show me a company's financial statement with "financial income" as jv and associates. I already asked you to show me your "financial income" from a financial statement to prove that you are right, have you? Tell you what, there is no such thing as financial income as a line in income statement. There is this "finance income" or "finance expense", which is interest income or interest expense. Not associates or jv.

Why is income from associates and jv not repeatable? In TanKW's lemang business, why only his lemang business income is repeatable, and why not his investment income from nasi lemak? For me, forex gain/loss is not repeatable. Gain/loss of sale of a property not related to its ordinary business is not repeatable etc, not income from a legitimate associates or jv.

Me "ridicule cynically"? Who tried to pick on who first?

I "didn't even understand financial income and expense when you wrote on JV and associate.....and calculated the % of Net income and OP". I really wonder who didn't understand.

Well I guess we have to leave it to a third party who knows better to judge.

nokenzo, definitely you won't get the same figure as mine. There is no way another person doing the EPV will get the same numbers as another. No way. This is because valuation is an art more than a science (don't remember how many times I have mentioned this).

For example, what ebit do you use? I use an average ebit margin of 16%, which is the average ebit margin of last 5 years to last year's revenue to get the constant ebit for the rest of the life of MFCB. Some may use average of 3 years, some last year's.

Income tax, I based on the percent of last year's ebit. What other use?

Capex? I used lat year's capex which is the lowest. This is for EPV, you assume there will be no more growth and hence no capex for growth, just maintenance capex which will be low. D&A? I can't use the pass years D&A because the non cash added back will be more than the maintenance capex. It is not possible for write back of D&A higher than capex for the rest of its life, can it? Can you get back more money (in D&A write back) than the expenses on the plant and machinery you spend on for the long term? So I used an arbitrary D&A of 75% of capex.

Cost of capital is the weighted average cost of capital (WACC) of equity and debt holders. It is worked out based on followings:

WACC Wt R WACC
Market cap 421767 86.0% 10.0% 8.6%

Total debt 68712 14.0% 5.3% 0.7%
490479 9.3%

Tax rate 25.00%

Capitalized earnings is just normalized ebit/WACC.

Minority interest I just based on the last year income statement that worked out to be 38.2% of the net profit belongs to the minority interest. Hence 38.2% of the EPV goes to MI. Frankly speaking I am not 100% sure if this is correct. But I think so.

So you see EPV is more an art. For that matter, all valuation methods are more art than science. There is no right or wrong.Important thing is whether your assumptions are realistic and logical. Also use various valuation methods and if the results are all close, then the valuation may make sense. I guess if you do the EPV using sensible inputs, you will arrive at a figure close to mine too.

Thanks TanKW. Yeah that one I put in a lot of effort to share with others too.

Me sensitive? I am just responding to your following comments.

Posted by Trillion > Aug 9, 2013 12:05 PM | Report Abuse
Hahaha Grandma, you will learn these guys are shiok sendiri team. Information provided no guarantee of accuracy. .......lol they also cannot take question one ......leave critism.......

Posted by Trillion > Aug 9, 2013 11:22 PM | Report Abuse
Someone alredi pointed out the FA mistake.....OTB, read lah......hahahahaha. Enjoy yourself OTB making everyone here especially Inwest88 and Tonylim.

Hahaha
What is Operating income/profit? Net income is after all taxes and OP is before....so how lah?

puakeng, if you are interested in my thoughts, go to read what I wrote at the top of the following threads.

http://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/forum/900255072.jsp

http://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/forum/900285510.jsp

Yes, i will take you all the way. Btw, my comments are all very specific so far. Taking pot shot? Have I? Btw, respond to my comments then. They are all very very specific.

Who else thinks that my comments are not specific, and yours are specific?

Posted by shirley1 > Aug 11, 2013 10:09 AM | Report Abuse
juz puzzle huh, if my nasi lemak's business got few shoplots, will it be reflected in my lembang's business balance sheet ?

JUST WONDER WHY TRILLION DID NOT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION. THIS IS MY REPLY TO YOU.

IN YOUR CASE, NASI LEMAK IS ALSO PART OF YOUR ORDINARY BUSINESS AND EVERYTHING WILL BE SHOWN IN THE SAME FINANCIAL STATEMENT.

THIS IS DIFFERENT FROM TANKW'S LEMANG BUSINESS BECAUSE HE JUST INVESTED IN THAT SINGAPORE BUSINESS AS A PART OWNER. HE IS NOT EVEN INVOLVE IN ANYWHERE IN THAT NASI LEMAK BUSINESS.

Posted by Trillion > Aug 11, 2013 09:51 AM | Report Abuse
Kcchong, is this the lowest you want to take a pot shot ......a term finance vs financial income

-------------
After EBIT, there are many other stuff other than your "financial income". Anyway, I thought it is "Finance income" which is interest from FD etc, not "financial income" as stated by you. Other stuff includes forex gain, gain/loss from associates, jv etc which their accounts have not been consolidated, gain/loss from sale of PPE, sale of land etc.
----------

It is the same thing.....one to describe (ie finance income) and the other is is a accounting term in PnL. Anymore pot shot? The rest is already in the link I put there

LOWEST POT SHOT? AS I HAVE SAID I AIN'T ACCOUNTANT BUT I STILL THINK THAT IT IS FINANCE INCOME OR FINANCE EXPENSE, NOT FINANCIAL. EVEN THE LINK YOU SHOWED IS FINANCE INCOME, NOT FINANCIAL INCOME. SHOW ME ONE FINANCIAL STATEMENT USING FINANCIAL INCOME TO DESCRIBE INTEREST INCOME.

As for Houseofordos, yes there are many other calculations that u have pointed out that can be used. However remember that the more measurement pointed in same direction means more accuracy. Example a lot of ppl use P/E ratio as one of a means to view desirability or a form of virtual repayment period (hinging at 10 ie ref to 10 years) but I suspect this hinge at PE 10 benchmark will move a lower or higher scale benchmark depending on the global movement and may settle at a new benchmark. Reason I say that is because it may become a norm repayment period in the real world to extend if prices of things do not come down while salary is the same.....
Ok Ok coming back to earlier statement of PE (assuming all stays the same) the example I gave as I also use Price/ Cashflow to balance my PE observation to support my own justification when buying or selling. This is what I mean.

WHAT HOUSEEOFORODS MENTIONED IS VERY RELEVANT TO USE ROIC AND EBIT/EV FOR CHECKING THE EFFICIENCY AND VALUE OF A COMPANY'S ORDINARY BUSINESS TO TRY TO AVOID COMPANY BOOKING ONE-OFF ITEM TO INFLATE NET PROFIT AND MISLEAD SHAREHOLDERS. BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO SHOW.

If u look at OTB, he also says he uses Diff method to calculate to observe consistency I believe. Same here.

Posted by TeckChuan Lee > Aug 11, 2013 03:12 AM | Report Abuse

Can you refer to L&G FY2012 Footnote No.42

Realized and unrealized profits. Anything affecting our EBIT?

WHEN YOU POST A QUESTION, BE SPECIFIC. I CAN'T READ EVERYTHING YOU ASK ME TO READ. AND I DON'T KNOW EVERYTHING.

Posted by TeckChuan Lee > Aug 11, 2013 02:54 AM | Report Abuse

From your KELADI post,

''The major shareholder Datuk Robert Wong or something owns a few smallish public listed companies and this man is notorious of share manipulation.''

Where do you get info like this?

Is there anyone else we should be aware of?

I READ SOMEBODY'S POSTING ON THIS BEFORE AND BELIEVE IN HIM. I DON'T KNOW EVERYTHING. I KNOW VERY LITTLE ABOUT THIS STUFF.

Posted by TeckChuan Lee > Aug 11, 2013 02:11 AM | Report Abuse
Thanks a lot KC.
Do you mind to do a review on HUNZPTY?
1. EBIT, what is 'fair value adjustment', and is it included inside EBIT?

FAIR VALUE ADJUSTMENT IN WHAT? IF IT IS FAIR VALUE ADJUSTMENT TO THE VALUE OF A PROPERTY, THEN I DON'T TAKE AS PART OF EBIT BECAUSE IT IS ONE-TIME, NON-CASH AND HAS NO MEANING TO ME.

2. IC, 'investment properties' & 'properties dev. cost' , is it included in IC?

IF INCOME FROM INVESTMENT PROPERTIES IS PART OF OPERATING INCOME (MOST LIKELY IT IS), THEN IC WOULD INCLUDE THAT. PROPERTY DEV COST FOR PROPERTY COMPANY IS PART OF IC.

3. CAPEX, again is 'investment properties' included? since it is a properties development company.

IF THE ORDINARY BUSINESS OF A PROPERTY DEVELOPMENT COMPANY ALSO INCLUDE INVESTMENT INCOMES FROM INVESTMENT PROPERTIES SUCH AS FREQUENT BUYING AND SELLING OF INVESTMENT PROPERTIES, GETTING RENTAL INCOMES AS PART OF ITS OPERATING INCOME, THEN IT IS PART OF THE CAPEX. OFTEN IT IS NOT.

Posted by Trillion > Aug 10, 2013 10:22 PM | Report Abuse
Aiya...u guys suppose to be expert
Blog: OTB, Fat Cat, kcchong portfolio return by kcchongnz
Aug 10, 2013 10:04 PM | Report Abuse
One correction,
After EBIT is Financial Income
IBIE = EBIT + Financial Income
Earning B4 income Tax = IBIE - Financial Expense
Net Income comes after that......

---------------
Ok I spell all out.....
After Earning B4 income Tax will be the tax and after that is Net Income lor......


First of all, I never claim I am an expert. Can you find anywhere I did so? I always say I am not an accountant. But I still can engage you to talk about accounting.

After EBIT, there are many other stuff other than your "financial income". Anyway, I thought it is "Finance income" which is interest from FD etc, not "financial income" as stated by you. Other stuff includes forex gain, gain/loss from associates, jv etc which their accounts have not been consolidated, gain/loss from sale of PPE, sale of land etc.

Anyway, you are more constructive now in your comments. Welcome.

Tan KW, your lemang business makes a good example. that is how income statement is presented. As an equity holder, your net profit is 42k, and net profit margin is 42%. You have rightly omitted the one-time off foreign exchange gain of 1k from the net profit as it is after "Net profit". Think of it as an investor, isn't that 20k profit from the nasi lemak a regular return for you? The foreign exchange gain is not of course. Why did Trillion kept on saying forex is included in the "net income"?

The higher net profit than operating profit doesn't mean the nasi lemak business in Singapore is of higher profit margin. It depend on how much you have invested in this nasi lemak business. The higher profit margin is because the net profit includes your nasi lemak business which in accounting term, is not your "ordinary" business, or core business. This profit from nasi lemak is just the profit before tax of the nasi lemak business and there is no turnover included in the top line "revenue" in the lemang business. But this is how "net profit" is computed in analysis of accounting statement.

Talking about efficiencies like DSO, Inventories turnover, Days payable turnover, etc, we always refer to the "ordinary" business, or the core business of the company and the figures you can get are only those of the ordinary business. This is because you don't have the non-core figures as they are not "consolidated" in that company's account. So why Trillion is talking about the following:

[Posted by Trillion > Aug 10, 2013 07:49 PM | Report Abuse
Honestly I would check again! Because the Efficiency (asset and account receivable calculation against Revenue will be affected) calculation will all be out. I ask the earlier question because if added b4 EBIT, chances are it is in Revenue or category of non OP income. If in Revenue, it would be fine but not in Financial income category. If then it happens, you efficiency measurement versus Performance will totally be out.]

If you bother to check CBIP's account, you would have found that I have ignored those one-off items such as "Profit from discontinued operations", "Gain on disposal of subsidiaries", "Gain/(Loss) on fair value measurement" and "Exchange differences on". so what else do you have?

That is why I separate margins into gross, ebit and net margin respectively.

Btw, profit from associates and jv can be consistent, or not consistent, just like the income from its ordinary business. forex, gain of sale of PPE etc and other one-off items which I normally ignore.

I really don't know what are you trying to show. Just ask me to read a link. No head or tail.

I thought our argument is just related to my post on CBIP, that its net income is higher than its profit from operations. Are you still laughing at this or what?

The associates and jv accounts are not consolidated in the financial statement of CBIP. Hence the share of results from associates and jv is just profit or loss, no revenue nor expense "consolidated" in CBIP's financial statements.

The financial statements of CBIP clearly shows that share of results from associates and jv are after ebit, or "profit from operations", aren't they?

I love constructive criticisms, right from the bottom of my heart. Correct my mistakes if I am wrong. This way I learn too. I am very happy about it. Tell you what, I ain't accountant but I do know how to read a bit of financial statement. But try to ridicule me, with your sarcastic and cynical remarks? Especially I am not wrong. Hey I am just trying to share my thoughts. Free of charge.

Who challenged who first? See how you laugh at my numbers first. What was your purpose in laughing at me? Try to ridicule me?

The financial statements of CBIP which i believe follows the IFR reporting standard shows that the "Profit from operations" is 88.9m and its "Profit after taxation from continuing operations" is 91.8m.

So do you agree that the "net income" is higher than its "operating income"? What is the purpose of your statements below which are full of contempt?

Posted by Trillion > Aug 9, 2013 12:05 PM | Report Abuse
Hahaha Grandma, you will learn these guys are shiok sendiri team. Information provided no guarantee of accuracy. .......lol they also cannot take question one ......leave critism.......

Posted by Trillion > Aug 9, 2013 11:22 PM | Report Abuse
Someone alredi pointed out the FA mistake.....OTB, read lah......hahahahaha. Enjoy yourself OTB making everyone here especially Inwest88 and Tonylim.

Hahaha
What is Operating income/profit? Net income is after all taxes and OP is before....so how lah?

Proportion of jv removed? Where removed? Net income is 91.8m, revenue is 520m, hence net profit margin is 18% (91.8/520. so?

CBIP's net profit is higher than its operating profit. That is "flat down" accounting. Operating profit is for the "ordinary" business of the company. It doesn't include profits of associates, jv, extra-ordinary items, foreign exchange gain, gain of investments if any etc. Net profit includes those stuff. Hence net profit can be higher than operating profit. It is actually shown in CBIP's income statement that net profit last year of 91.8m, is higher than its operating profit of 88.9m. And there is nothing wrong with that statement.

Are you an accountant? If so better refresh your knowledge. If not, better learn more about accounting.

Trillion, when you know a little bit and not well enough, I advise you not to laugh at others first. Learn more first. ok?

You will be right if CBIP doesn't have associates and joint ventures. Because the profits from associates and JV are not consolidated into CBIP's financial statements. Hence earnings from associates and jv appear after ebit, or operating profit. that is why net income for CBIP is higher than operating profit. OK?

Posted by TeckChuan Lee > Aug 9, 2013 03:00 AM | Report Abuse
Dear KC, NTPM 2012, the income statement states all sorts of expenses. To calculate EBIT, Im only leaving out 'other operating expenses' , 'finance cost' and tax only right?

Ebit is earnings before interest and tax. It is in fact "operating profit" in the income statement itself. You cannot leave out "other operating expenses". "finance cost" and tax is after Ebit which are left out.

Posted by TeckChuan Lee > Aug 8, 2013 10:33 PM | Report Abuse
2. From annual reports where do you get the idea how much the directors are paid? from compensations and dividends? Total compensation/Revenue > 3%

Look at the remunerations for the directors, or directors' fees. This does not include dividends. Dividends are distributions to shareholders, though directors are also shareholders.

Posted by TeckChuan Lee > Aug 8, 2013 10:33 PM | Report Abuse
Dear KC
Questions
1. Quoted from your thread, 'In Search of Excellence'
'At the price of 48 sen now, Willow is trading at a PE ratio of just 7.7 (<20). Market Enterprise Value is only 4.6 times EBIT (<8). Price-to-book is only at 1.6 (<2). I would say a good company of Willow is selling very cheaply.'
Why do you use <8 as a guide for EV/Ebit?
Why do you use <2 for P/BV?
Just wondering how you set your limits when you value a company.

there are many investing strategies. the strategy here is looking for good companies and see if they are selling at reasonable price. Once you have decided that willow is a good company from its operating numbers such as high ROE and ROIC, good cash flows, then you want to know if it is trading at reasonable price. Don't expect to find good companies trading at cheap price, do you?

So a PE ratio of 7.7 isn't expensive. And EV 8 times of Ebit isn't expensive too. Inverting those ratios gives you an earnings yield of 12%-14%. This earnings yield compared to fixed deposit is good, isn't it? The benchmarks are just a guide and could be arbitrary, but don't you think they are logical.

Posted by Trillion > Aug 9, 2013 11:22 PM | Report Abuse
Someone alredi pointed out the FA mistake.....OTB, read lah......hahahahaha. Enjoy yourself OTB making everyone here especially Inwest88 and Tonylim.

Are you referring to the comment below?

Posted by Grandma > Aug 9, 2013 11:26 AM | Report Abuse
The Net Profit is higher % than the Operating profit?


Is it regarding my post on CBIP? then my answer is yes. Any problem with it?

Posted by JTFX > Aug 7, 2013 12:23 PM | Report Abuse
Many tks to KCC..added Fibon to my portfolio at .345 ..happy hols..

JTFX, happy Hari Raya holiday.

As I have said before, this stock was introduced to me by a forumer here when Fibon was at 32.5 sen. His name is house. When he showed me his analysis, I straightaway bought some, before I even carried out my own analysis. I have to thank him too.

inwest88, tell you a secrete. I have written many posts on fundamentals of stocks, including Pintaras, Kfima, Prestariang, Plenitude, ECSICT, SKPRes, CBIP, Willow, Pantech, Scientex, Apollo, Zhulian etc etc in i3. But notice that they are mostly illiquid stocks, few or none analysts follow? They never go up the first time I posted them. In fact it took a long time. But this time don't know why counters like MFCB, Fibon, Pintaras went up a lot not long I have written about them?

This is a coincidence, luck and nothing else. Don't call me a hero. it will only attract attacks.

Tan KW, I know you are joking. You should know I too. Yeah, take a good break for this Hari Raya. I will be in Taupo to play golf. The Wairakei International Golf Course is one of the best in NZ. Hopefully can do some skiing at Whakapapa in Mt Ruepehu.

Posted by Tan KW > Aug 7, 2013 11:04 AM | Report Abuse
based on FCTB theory, kcchongnz push the share price as the share being published in i3investor

Tan KW, you are being very humorous here. I can push up the share price, those illiquid stocks? Give me a break.

But frankly speaking, fundamental stocks's price won't spike. Investment in fundamental stocks is a slow return process. If one can earn 15% in a year, that is considered very good already as the broad market of most developed and developing countries return about 10% a year only.

Just a bit surprise on the sudden rise of these nobody-follow-stocks of Pintaras,Fibon and MFCB. It is definitely not because of my posts. there must be some coincidence, may be a better quarterly report coming out soon.

bsngpg,
You have many valid points. Actually I guessed correctly about your concerns, very logical. Just that since you didn't want to talk about it, I didn't want to go further.

Yes, Fibon is a tightly family controlled business. All decision makers are all in the family, though there are a few independent non-executive directors. The independent directors are very qualified but I doubt they can be truly independent. Tightly family controlled business has all the risks mentioned by you. Unless you personally know those people, the risks are always there.

Many Malaysian listed companies are also tightly family controlled. Some straight come into my mind are Pintaras, Coastal, etc. these companies have been doing well and shareholders are well rewarded. In Pintaras, although the husband and wife and the son team are fully in control, but I don't see any irregularities which could hurt minority shareholders. I couldn't see irregularities happening to Fibon too by reading its annual report, but may be i don't know enough of it yet.

Talk about qualification of the directors, it is not so much concern for me. It is the credibility, their characters, business acumen etc are more important. I could see many companies have highly qualified professionals but they use their brain to manipulate minority shareholders, and not doing the right things for the business. Believe me, big companies with many smart people have more politics and infighting.

A small business is also not a great concern of me. Many big companies grew from small when they are more efficient, and lighter and hence can run (grow) faster. Yes, small companies can hit hard when crisis comes, but if they are lean and fit, the chance of failure is low. Fibon is debt free and cash rich. Their business is a real business with stable revenue and profit.

Does Fibon manipulate its financial statements? I have analyzed them but nothing in particular came into my mind.

bsngpg, it is just that we have different opinion and ways of looking things. Your comments are very useful, seriously.

Because I just follow OTB's recommendation. Never look at their fundamentals myself yet.

inwest, itchy finger. I normally don't do things like this. Don't ever follow me gambling like this.

Sold. This one just manage to have a Chinese dinner for a family.

What's happening to Fibon?

TanKW, i have about a dozen stocks as investment. good enough as a diversification, I think.

this doesn't include my trading for some normal stocks and warrants. those are fast turnover for fun.

Not sure about its PE unless I take time to look at its financial statements. But should look at KSeng in enterprise value which I think must be very cheap in relation to its ebit because it has so much cash and other investments. Keck Seng is more of an asset play, good asset play as explained by me above.

I trade on OTB's stocks.

Heading for some positive outcomes for my Puncak Wb just bought this morning at 1.71.