Cold Eye冷眼’s 5 yardsticks for investment
Cold Eye, during his talk on 16/3/2013, listed 5 important criteria for investing in a stock as below:
1. Return on equity, ROE,
2. Cash flow from operations and free cash flow,
3. PE ratio,
4. Dividend yield and
5. Net tangible asset backing per share, NTA
If you invest RM100,000 in a business, you would want to have a reasonable return from the capital, or equity you put in. A business is risky and probably you may want a minimum return of say 25%. For investing in the share market, you may want a minimum return say 10%, 6% above the return you get from bank deposit? If the business only returns you 4%, why would you want to invest in it when you can get that rate from FD without having any worries at all?
In your business, you would expect that all your debtors pay you promptly and that you don’t have to stock up a lot of inventories which will tied up your capital. Otherwise you would have to put in more capital each year even though you make money. I would expect the hard cash I can received must be about the earnings I make each year. My business would also require capital expenses each year to keep it going, better growing bigger so that I would earn more in the future. This I would need to buy more and replenish the equipment , buy or open more shops etc. It would be ideal if these expenses can be met with the cash I receive each year and not having to come up with more of my own money or borrow from bank. After that, I would be happy if there is still money left for me to draw out (as dividend), or the company can have extra money to invest in other lucrative business. This money available after all the capital expenses is termed as free cash flow, or FCF.
If the above business make a lot of money, say 30000 a year, or 30%, would you buy it if the asking price is 1 million, or a PE of 33? This will give you a earnings yield of only 3%. Hence a good business does not mean it is a good investment if the price is too high.
How nice it would be if the business earns enough for me to draw down 10,000 a year consistently. For my dividend yield would be 10%, 2.5 times that of FD rate. Besides my business is still growing.
Well if at the end if I want to exit from the business, if the net tangible asset of my assets worth more than what I put in, or more, I can recoup my initial investment. These assets must of course the more valuable the better, for example hard cash, property and land etc, rather than some money which I have been arguing with the debtors whether they are going to pay me or not, or some inventories which are outdated. Hence NTA is important too although in some businesses, example the service industry where the important assets are its people, its technology or brand name rather than hard assets.
Do you have any good stocks meeting the majority of the above criteria as given by Cold Eye to share? Or any lemon you may know which you want to tell others to be careful about? This discussions here is for sharing of knowledge and information and should not be construed as a forum for hard selling or condemning others of their stocks without giving justifications.
Kcchongnz 17/3/2013
Hi kc chongnz, I have been following your FA analysis and appreciate your sharing a great deal.Would appreciate, if you could also send me a copy of the FA template. For sure would not land up in the dustbinlah! Thank you. My email addrss: goaltrust@yahoo.com Have a nice day!
Hi KC, I am a newbie and would like to start learning some FA analysis. Appreciate if you can send me a copy of your FA template. Thanks a lot! heydoneking@hotmail.com
TanKW, Good effort. Something bothers me. How come all those stocks which I gave a pass using the cold Eye 5 yardsticks are all in green and those which failed are all in red? Did you manipulate the results? It is unusual.
That "hantu" dare not swear in Kfima thread that he didn't change "revenue" to "profit". So when is this "ghost" going to make the swearing that you did not do it?
Hi KC, appreciate if u can send a copy to stormquest2000@yahoo.com. Been following u for quite some time and appreciate your contributions here. Thanks in advance.
Posted by iafx > Aug 12, 2013 12:16 PM | Report Abuse kfima not green, ada hantu! potong cucu!
Kfima 2.06 31/07/2013 3 year 4 year 5 year 1.00 0.635 0.42 113.0% 235.4% 407.1% 28.7% 35.3% 38.4%
Hey look at Kfima's stock return for 3, 4, 5 years. The compounded annual return was 29%, 35% and 38% respectively. These average 3 times those of KLSE return. Good or not? Why you still condemn it ah?
Hi KCchongnz, pls forward a copy of your FA analysis template to my following email htyeap125@yahooo.com
FYI, i hv followed your advise and make some gains lately to pay off my mum's hefty medical bills, really appreciate your effort and generosity to share your valuable knowledge.
Oso, not to forget Mr OTB has also contributed positively and make this forum a wonderful platform for new investors, especially.
Posted by bighunter > Aug 12, 2013 01:15 PM | Report Abuse
Hi KCchongnz, pls forward a copy of your FA analysis template to my following email htyeap125@yahooo.com
FYI, i hv followed your advise and make some gains lately to pay off my mum's hefty medical bills, really appreciate your effort and generosity to share your valuable knowledge.
Oso, not to forget Mr OTB has also contributed positively and make this forum a wonderful platform for new investors, especially.
congrat to you. but just to put in as a record here. FA way of stock investing would not provide you with quick gain. If ever it will, it takes time because time is needed for good companies to show its performance, and time is needed for investors to realize that company is a good one. In investing, as oppose to trading and speculating, it is a long term thing. If one can get a couple of hundred basis points above the return of KLSE each year, he should be happy about it already.
Hi KCChongnz. Can u forward to me a copy of the FA. My email is kelvinongbk@hotmail.com I'm quite new to investing and so far my choice of stock is not impressive. Thanks
Hi KCChongz, one of my friends also went for this seminar and learnt a lot from him. Awaken by him to plan my own financial wisely to survive the future inflation via investing. I am too, a new born baby in investing. Although knowledge gathering had been done via reading, I still could not perform a decent FA before reaching to a conclusion. Picked the wrong stock in the end and had to sell to reduce my losses. May I have a copy of your FA to have an idea of the criteria that should be looked at before buying a stock? My email is soonck87@gmail.com. Thank you=)
anbz, That is the problem of many punters in the stock market. They always think of finding tips and rumours of whether this stock or that stock will be goreng, when is it going to be goreng, by who etc. How many times i have said, yes there are insiders and manipulators goreng up or down share prices, but you will be too naive and the stock market is not a place for you, if you keep on thinking they are gorenging to make money for you. For me if ever I hear any stock going to be goreng, i will avoid it because i always believe that nobody is going to goreng stocks and make money for me.
Cold Eye is a multimillionaire. He was just a reporter. He is what he is now mostly from investing, following certain rules, some good and intuitive rules. Look at the his portfolio put up by TanKW recently. How much is the return of his portfolio compared to the broad market?
Don't you think the 5 rules above make more sense than waiting for rumours from i3 and other places that which stock is going to be goreng and punt on it?
Posted by cksoon > Aug 16, 2013 02:10 AM | Report Abuse Hi KCChongz, one of my friends also went for this seminar and learnt a lot from him. Awaken by him to plan my own financial wisely to survive the future inflation via investing. I am too, a new born baby in investing. Although knowledge gathering had been done via reading, I still could not perform a decent FA before reaching to a conclusion. Picked the wrong stock in the end and had to sell to reduce my losses. May I have a copy of your FA to have an idea of the criteria that should be looked at before buying a stock? My email is soonck87@gmail.com. Thank you=)
I can send my spreadsheet to anybody, no problem. But most people will just put it aside, never bother any more. First of all, the spreadsheet was prepared by me as a non-professional (I do borrow a couple of valuation spreadsheets from Prof Aswath Damonaran). The spreadsheets are hence not user friendly. So don't expect too much from it. A handful do benefit from it and have been using it fruitfully, I believe. A couple of them are very new in finance and investment but they are doing very well now, occasionally posting simple and good analysis of stocks here.
I have just posted this two days ago, which I believe is the right path for you to follow if you are interested.
Isaac Newton once said “If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants.”
We know from hindsight that Newton was brilliant, if not genius, in the field of science, physics and mathematics. But as he says, he did not get there by himself. He took the wisdom and knowledge of Giants who paved the way before him and made it into his own.
Who are the giants in finance and investing? Let me start with a few first. Others can add on.
Warren Buffet, Philip Fisher, Charles Munger, Peter Lynch, Benjamin Graham, George Soros etc.
Besides 冷眼, there are a few local bloggers which you can follow. I just append some of their blogs here if you are interested.
Please note the above blog list is by no means exhaustive. In investing, don't always just look up but look down often. Instead of always thinking how much you can make in a bull market, think of how much less you could lose in a bear market.
Tan KW : I believe you are a very strong follower of Cold Eye as you are very familiar with his articles and you always can quote outright spot on article. I am very happy to know you as a same fans of Cold Eye. Thoughts sharing: Thought 1: If I do not want to become a drinker, I try to distance myself from drinking circle as I know if I close to them, one day I will be influenced and become one of them as I do not want to cheat myself that I have a very strong self-discipline. Thought 2: There are now many aunties and uncles on the street talking about shares. What is the implication? (Any article from Cold Eye on this?) Thought 3: When I am too close to the market, I cannot see the true picture and tend to dance along and get lost eventually. (Can you find article from Cold Eye related to this?). Thks
feberlicious, Semua lulus except cash flow. See my explanation about cash flow below. But that is just one year cash flow which is not representative. You should use an average, say 5 years and see if average CFFO> average NI.
In term of FCF, check if average is >5% of revenue as a benchmark.
Note ColdEye just mentioned about the 5 things to look for for value investing. He did not give any benchmark numbers. I think benchmarks are arbitrary and different for different people. If you follow mine, those are mine and may not suit your personal risk profile.
In your business, you would expect that all your debtors pay you promptly and that you don’t have to stock up a lot of inventories which will tied up your capital. Otherwise you would have to put in more capital each year even though you make money. I would expect the hard cash I can received must be about the earnings I make each year. My business would also require capital expenses each year to keep it going, better growing bigger so that I would earn more in the future. This I would need to buy more and replenish the equipment , buy or open more shops etc. It would be ideal if these expenses can be met with the cash I receive each year and not having to come up with more of my own money or borrow from bank. After that, I would be happy if there is still money left for me to draw out (as dividend), or the company can have extra money to invest in other lucrative business. This money available after all the capital expenses is termed as free cash flow, or FCF.
分享集: 锁定五星级股票 12/3/2007 10:44●冯时能 股票研究人 最近我检讨20年战绩时,喟然叹曰:“假如我当初摒绝投机,脚踏实地投资,只买五星级股票,收藏至今,身家何止增加十倍, 今天已是百万富翁了”,言下懊悔不已。 失败,完全是受占组合的劣股拖累。 要减少错误,最好的办法,是为自己设定一个投资准则:只买五星级股票。 第一颗星:有卓越的管理。先审视管理素质. {What do I do: Follow up closely on all development on the company, statements from the management, notes in quarterly reports, annual report, background of the directors, interviews of the CEO, comments from media and analyst, the 30 major shareholders etc.} 第二颗星:有成长的业务。{Reasonable growth rate in revenue, PAT and eps.} 第三颗星:盈利的稳定性。{Consistent revenue, PAT and eps} 第四颗星:财务稳健,经得起滔天巨浪的冲击。{Free cash or manageable debt level, Low PE(<10x during normal market, <8X during bear market), high net margin, reasonable size on PAT i.e. 10 mil on PAT is meaningless, can easily gone with the wind.} 第五颗星:生产永远有需求的产品。{Do as第一颗星: follow up closely all development on the company, the industry and macro economy, need to read a lot. It is something like Nokia vs. Iphone/Samsung; Notion’s HDD business; Kodak’s film; Garment and Furniture industries in M’sia.} 第六颗星:高股息, 大于定期. {Consistent and more than 4%, depending on the nature and prospect of the company. The best is 6% and above. i.e. there are many opportunities to get 6+% on Maybank, Zhulian, HaiO, GTronic, PIE when there is a correction on share price which happens at least once per year} Thks
Usually I do not pay much attention on “Net tangible asset backing per share, NTA”, as the only purpose of my investing is to grow together for a long term but not longing for a forced sale on the assets. I will definitely not invest into a business which has any little risk of closing down. If the company is not to close down in foreseeable future, the NTA is meaningless to me.
For financial companies like banks, insurance companies, closed end funds etc, assets are marked to market and hence Price-to-book value is the ultimate determination of value, together with ROE.
for non financial companies, I haven't paid much attention to price-to-book all this while. My view has since changed after reading through some academic research that book value is important with the following findings:
1)P/B is actually the parameter that has the most correlation with the stock performance.
2)Even for non-financial companies, stock price change is more correlated to the change of book value, EBITDA and operating income than revenue, net income, and cash flow.
KC Loh, you are right. For example, P/B for Jobstreet is 6, Prestariang 5.8. The reason being this type of company requires little physical assets. Their assets lie in the human capital which is not listed in the balance sheet.
if you look at Coldeye's portfolio as posted, many counters there have actually very low or negative ROE - KESM, KimHin, Kretam, EAH, ChooBee, MSC, NCB, facbind. Not walking the talk?
Hard to believe that "KESM, Kimhin, Kretam, EAH, ChooBee, MSC,NCB, FACBind" are counters of Cold Eye. They look like more of counters of speculators. Who can verify this?
From Annual Report 2012, Cold Eye is one of the 30 largest shareholders of GTronic and Huayang but the posted portfolio does not show both.
If he wrote about a counter, does not mean that he bought that counter. A lot of times, he just quote a counter as an example to explain message which he want to convey.
The so called Cold Eye’s portfolio was not posted by him. I do not know who and how the portfolio is there for REFERENCE. I am certain that the “poster” did it with good intention.
Cold Eye is an undisputable expert, at least when comparing to you and me.
If one does not have generous heart, do not mean others do not have too.
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Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-03-17 18:37 | Report Abuse
Cold Eye冷眼’s 5 yardsticks for investment Cold Eye, during his talk on 16/3/2013, listed 5 important criteria for investing in a stock as below: 1. Return on equity, ROE, 2. Cash flow from operations and free cash flow, 3. PE ratio, 4. Dividend yield and 5. Net tangible asset backing per share, NTA If you invest RM100,000 in a business, you would want to have a reasonable return from the capital, or equity you put in. A business is risky and probably you may want a minimum return of say 25%. For investing in the share market, you may want a minimum return say 10%, 6% above the return you get from bank deposit? If the business only returns you 4%, why would you want to invest in it when you can get that rate from FD without having any worries at all? In your business, you would expect that all your debtors pay you promptly and that you don’t have to stock up a lot of inventories which will tied up your capital. Otherwise you would have to put in more capital each year even though you make money. I would expect the hard cash I can received must be about the earnings I make each year. My business would also require capital expenses each year to keep it going, better growing bigger so that I would earn more in the future. This I would need to buy more and replenish the equipment , buy or open more shops etc. It would be ideal if these expenses can be met with the cash I receive each year and not having to come up with more of my own money or borrow from bank. After that, I would be happy if there is still money left for me to draw out (as dividend), or the company can have extra money to invest in other lucrative business. This money available after all the capital expenses is termed as free cash flow, or FCF. If the above business make a lot of money, say 30000 a year, or 30%, would you buy it if the asking price is 1 million, or a PE of 33? This will give you a earnings yield of only 3%. Hence a good business does not mean it is a good investment if the price is too high. How nice it would be if the business earns enough for me to draw down 10,000 a year consistently. For my dividend yield would be 10%, 2.5 times that of FD rate. Besides my business is still growing. Well if at the end if I want to exit from the business, if the net tangible asset of my assets worth more than what I put in, or more, I can recoup my initial investment. These assets must of course the more valuable the better, for example hard cash, property and land etc, rather than some money which I have been arguing with the debtors whether they are going to pay me or not, or some inventories which are outdated. Hence NTA is important too although in some businesses, example the service industry where the important assets are its people, its technology or brand name rather than hard assets. Do you have any good stocks meeting the majority of the above criteria as given by Cold Eye to share? Or any lemon you may know which you want to tell others to be careful about? This discussions here is for sharing of knowledge and information and should not be construed as a forum for hard selling or condemning others of their stocks without giving justifications. Kcchongnz 17/3/2013