stockraider, u got banned & kickout out of investlah still do the same here ahh? Later admin ban u again then no one will miss u lahh or u will reincarnate into another ID? Don't be naughty loh! Did ur mama chiong hei tell u everyday is for ur own good so u don't get into trouble loh!

Dolly_chai, u bought into Evergreen and seeing it's share price sinking everyday may cause u to become angry so u need to start seeing the prospects of another competitor. Shield yourself by hedging and buying into a competitor is never a bad move.

stockraider, u got banned & kickout out of investlah still do the same here ahh? Later admin ban u again then no one will miss u lahh or u will reincarnate into another ID? Don't be naughty loh! Did ur mama chiong hei tell u everyday is for ur own good so u don't get into trouble loh!

stockraider, u should not buy a stock because it is trading below book value for the purpose of margin of safety otherwise u will never spot the difference between an underperforming and a growth company hence ur stock selection will cause ur portfolio to underperform in the long term.

dolly_chai, thank u for scolding me in Hevea board discussion which is based on youe own emotion than logical business sense. I believe most people in i3 can read more about my unbiased truthful analysis based on factual data and information. For the record, I'm only biased in eyes of Evergreen supporters and this is understandable. I don't uphold a stock if it's own fundamental is sound or better than the other competitor. It is perfectly normal if you would compare among all telco operators like maxis, digi, celcom, etc. before u decide which to go for. So in this case, I'm shaking off ur biased opinions towards Evergreen since Hevea is the closest competitor with almost same level of market cap which u have stated in the past that both are not direct competitor and I've uncovered everything based on factual data/info taken out from both companies annual&quarterly reports which pointed out they are exactly direct competitor. Evergreen is "kiasu" enough to compete with Hevea in 2 segments that are RTA and particleboard dominated by Hevea as well. You still want proof then plz check back my comments history and u can read all about it.

dolly_chai, I uncovered all the fundamental facts&figures and from the detailed accounting and statements from chairman/directors of both companies that u can roughly know the direction and performance of both financial+business of both companies. Do I have to reiterate that with the details again? I think people can read back my comments history which I've always make it brief and concise. THe share price of both companies are reflected based on the core fundamentals of both. I wish that I can say Evergreen is better in terms of various aspects but everything are pointing out that Hevea is a better pick which is perfectly in net cash position in-line to the better position to weather any risks in current economic climate.

Whats the problem olga? whyare u so emotional when I'm just presenting the facts abt Evergreen and Hevea? R u a hardcore fans of Evergreen? quite obvious. The fundamentals of my analysis not logical? Share price of both stocks have shown the obvious no matter what u think otherwise.

I've presented the fundamental facts and figures on both stocks. The records and share price of both stocks will speak for themselves based on what had been uncovered. Thank u!

dolly_chai, stockraider and olga are almost same person? I've no doubt and I've presented the fundamental facts and figures on both stocks. The records and share price of both stocks will speak for themselves based on what had been uncovered. Thank u!

eskaylien, u want to speculate the future ahead? First, u must check whether a company has set a good direction for itself and especially what kind of product segments in the offering to clients. The future is the consequence of today's actions. Don't invest blindly based on what u think that u know. Do a thorough research.

Gummy88 is a new ID with just 9 comments. Only Olga took the trouble to cross referencing to this ID. Isn't it obviously fishy? Lol

Can simply ignore stockraider who has since gone berserk after I've uncovered his half truth storytelling about Evergreen. Just the way he wrote things also unconvincingly obvious lol

bullorbear123, well said! Salute!

Dolly_chai is coming here to play sifu but failed miserably in Evergreen. If u can't figure our or interpret the financials and reports right then u should not act like sifu lol

This one can buy for healthy balance sheet, consistent profits non stop and holding lots of cash RM 57,017,000.00 impressive! It's profit margin is also consistent and high too:

Annual Profit margin:
2012: 14.2%
2013: 13.4%
2014: 15.9%
2015: 16.1%
2016: 17.8%

Dolly_chai, don't try to be smart and pick on bully a low performer like HOMERIZ la. Mind ur own EVERGREEN and for the most part I just found out u don't know how to read financial statements and reports be it quarterly or annually one. Sad and sick case.

For HOMERIZ case, it has NO DEBTS and holding RM 57,017,000.00 CASH. Generating healthy consistent profits each quarter, very well managed. Having no debts does have its own perks.

Dolly_chai, don't "con" "con" people everywhere with ur half truth and now u are valued-added some more with gossip & rumour. You should do better than this lol.

more...

EVERGREEN
Medium density fibreboard (MDF): 80% of revenues contribution
Value-added MDF: 15% of revenues contribution
Ready-to-Assemble (RTA): 5% of revenues contribution

HEVEA
Particleboard: 40% of revenues contribution
Ready-to-Assemble (RTA): 60% of revenues contribution


Hevea's latest quarter report announced on 22 Nov 2016.
CASH AND BANK BALANCES 109,790,000
LONG TERM BORROWINGS 6,947,000
SHORT-TERM BORROWINGS 8,164,000
Total debts: 15,111,000
Cash - Total Borrowings = 94,679,000 (*NET CASH POSITION)
No. of shares in circulation: 500,851,890 shares
94,679,000(Net cash) / 500,851,890 shares = *Worth RM (0.189) net cash a piece


Evergreen's latest quarter report announced on 28 Nov 2016.
CASH AND BANK BALANCES 141,018,000
LONG TERM BORROWINGS 108,952,000
SHORT-TERM BORROWINGS 107,633,000
Total debts: 216,585,000
Cash - Total Borrowings = -75,567,000 (*NET DEBTS POSITION)
No. of shares in circulation: 846,423,985 shares
-75,567,000(Net debts) / 846,423,985 shares = *Worth approx. RM (-0.089) per share

Dolly_chai, only people like u who cannot read well(maybe) or refused to accept the fact that all fundamental has pointed out that HEVEA is already superior than EVERGREEN and that is already a fact in all their business segments. My agenda is to uncover and educate people so that they are not conned by people like u or stockraider.

Below as indicated are the round-up of EVERGREEN and HEVEA profit margin:

EVERGREEN
2012: 3.2%
2013: -4.5%
2014: 0%
2015: 9.1%
2016: 7.3%


HEVEA
2012: 4.1% (Hevea's RTA segment started operation in early of 2012)
2013: 5.7% (Continuation of CAPEX throughout the year for more automation for RTA)
2014: 7.2%
2015: 14.7%
2016: 13.3%

Do u not see how RTA segment has propelled HEVEA to what it is today and it is reflected in the share price as well? What is the trend of share price for HEVEA and EVERGREEN respectively?

Gummy88 is another new ID used by Dolly_chai lol. When people like this refused to accept the loss is when they use different ID to attack the critics lol

Doly_chai, whether u like it or not...the demand is shifting to particleboard which is more lightweight, cheaper in prices, cheaper to transport around hence cheaper logistic & labour costs. Just a logical thinking would open up your mind to know that Evergreen is going to restart it's long abandoned particleboard segment and this has obviously tells u that Evergreen wants a piece of the particleboard market share pie which has been dominated by Hevea and Hevea has been doing so great and profitable until Hevea is in net cash position.

Fast forward to this day, Evergreen still in net debts position and is highly geared because it is over-reliant on one particular product segment that is MDF with 80% of revenues from it. After years of losing it to Hevea, now then Evergreen realizes that both the particleboard and RTA segments are the key to Hevea's higher profit margin and this enable it to amassed and retained more cash earnings with prudent management practice. Look below for it:

Below as indicated are the round-up of EVERGREEN and HEVEA profit margin:

EVERGREEN
2012: 3.2%
2013: -4.5%
2014: 0%
2015: 9.1%
2016: 7.3%


HEVEA
2012: 4.1% (Hevea's RTA segment started operation in early of 2012)
2013: 5.7% (Continuation of CAPEX throughout the year for more automation for RTA)
2014: 7.2%
2015: 14.7%
2016: 13.3%

Do u not see how RTA segment has propelled HEVEA to what it is today and it is reflected in the share price as well? What is the trend of share price for HEVEA and EVERGREEN respectively?

Hevea will hit the billion ringgit market cap soon once more people realize and understood it's businesses in-depth and it's edge over all of it's competitors. Kindly check my comments history to read in other board of discussion. Thank u!

Harder woods are needed to make MDF hence the name density. Particleboard can be made with different types of woods combined and pressingly molded to any sizes so that is very versatile and lightweight. u can check the prices in the Malaysian Timber Industry Board for wood and log prices. The process of making particleboard is also easier and faster with even lesser precision needed in the cutting stage.

My stock selection is solidly based on real fundamental of a company and if such a company has competitors then I will have to compare and check in-depths of the businesses very well. Evergreen's share price staying lower does not mean is a value buy based on what u think of their expansionary plans. Risks to Evergreen's expansionary plans to increase production output includes:

1) Possible downsizing or delayed due to higher fluctuating prices of MDF and weaker demand for MDF since it is over-reliant on 80% of revenues from this segment. Demand is for cheaper and lighter alternative that is particleboard.

2) Evergreen's expansionary plan and capex will strain it's already high debts currently stood at RM 216,585,000.00. Restarting it's particleboard segment and venturing into RTA will take at least 2 years to stabilize and to be profitable based on Hevea's past experiences and case studies. Therefore u can expect these 2 exercises alone can drag down it's revenues in the many quarters to come.

Dolly_chai, I think u are seriously an inaccurate and misleading commentator here. Have u forgotten what u just said yesterday that Evergreen is not a direct competitor to Hevea? Evergreen's own words printed on their latest annual report have stated that they are trying to start the particleboard product segment to be operational at year end of 2016 and they have started to rake in revenues from RTA segment too but just a mere 5% revenue contribution. Please read company's annual report and quarterly reports as well.

Hevea's RTA segment is operational in the early of 2012. It takes Hevea 2 years of ongoing capex and aggressive tweaks of operation plus marketing of RTA furniture products to achieve the high profit margin from this segment alone. If u want proof of these, I can show u but on a request basis. The particleboard segment is less susceptible to price fluctuations than MDF therefore the particleboard segment is proven to have an edge on ROI for the company to be very profitably stable. That is why Evergreen is trying it's best to restart the particleboard segment after it was stalled in 2013.

Latest recorded revenues by segments of both companies:

EVERGREEN
Medium density fibreboard (MDF): 80% of revenues contribution
Value-added MDF: 15% of revenues contribution
Ready-to-Assemble (RTA): 5% of revenues contribution

HEVEA
Particleboard: 40% of revenues contribution
Ready-to-Assemble (RTA): 60% of revenues contribution


Particleboard is more lightweight and cheaper in price than MDF and if u understand the global economy now, most consumers in various countries prefer a cheaper product to keep costs low. That is why Hevea is already far superior in terms of profit margin just from it's 2 segments alone. Evergreen is starting to feel "KIASU" and venturing into RTA and restarting the particleboard segment as well. Do u still not see all these are exactly reflected in Hevea's businesses and more importantly it's share price?

It is dead easy to shut & slam the critics if you really understand the wood-based businesses well.

Hi Tan Toh Fei, thanks in that regards. I've shown those especially stockraider for what they really should know about Evergreen's problems because it's risk to reward ratio is imbalance and highly geared. Kindly check my comments history if anyone would like to understand in details on why Hevea is not only a safer bet but it is highly rewarding in terms of ROI/ROE in the coming few quarters.

When they run out of ideas, they have to even spread half-truth about a company just to mend it to their favour without convincing factual information to back-up their claims or arguments. That just showed me that they are half-filled jars.

Evergreen's ambitious expansionary plans to increase production capacity will increase it's own risk profile by over-relying on one particular product segment that is MDF. See the following statements taken out from Evergreen's own Annual report at page 17:

**The core business of the Group remained in manufacturing of Medium Density Fibreboard (MDF) which contributed approximately 80% of our revenue, while 15% is contributed from the downstream process which is the Value Added MDF and the remaining 5% is contributed by the Ready to Assemble (RTA) Furniture and other Wood Products. Our Particle Board plant remained idle since 2013 and is currently being upgraded in preparation for startup end of 2016.

With 80% revenues derived from MDF segment, EVERGREEN will be "extremely susceptible" to any price fluctuations for Medium Density Fibreboard (MDF) in the international market pricing. Hevea derived it's revenues approximately 60% from RTA and 40% from Particleboard. Well-balanced diversification.

Just because I've presented analysis comparing on both Evergreen and Hevea which doesn't favour Evergreen, it does not mean I've bad intention or being biased entirrely. For the most part of the accounting facts & figures which remain as important metrics for any investors to gauge the current and future business performance of a company, one should consider the more tangible aspects to be more conclusive rather than one's opinion on the expansionary growth path which has yet to be completed and it takes times. Any expansionary plans can always be downsized or halted due to many factors so u do not want to be too hopeful to take into account on future earnings from expansionary plans that are unknowingly progressing.

Any downstream business is considered value-added such as Ready-to-Assemble (RTA) furniture business in which both Evergreen and Hevea are diversifying into that area. Such downstream business has higher profit margin due to it's highly customizable and crafty nature hence the maker can adjust the profitability accordingly. Automation by machineries will reduce labour costs and shorten the production time further so that is why both companies invest in more modern machineries and facilities for that purpose in this highly profitable RTA segment. A company may not survive or able to dominate certain product segments alone in the long-term so u can just expect both Evergreen and Hevea to compete heads-on each other. Still try to ignore they are not direct competitor? or u just not understanding the real direction and progress of both companies? Dolly_chai, if u don't know...u can always ask. I'm more than happy to help people to understand but I hope some people like you or stockraider should not mislead others.

To present my case study, Hevea has since diversified into RTA segment and recorded a 22% jump in revenue growth in this segment compared to previous year alone.

Cummulative 9 months quarterly earnings 2016:
Particleboards
Revenue 160,695,000
PBT 28,221,000

RTA Products
Revenue 234,130,000
PBT 32,513,000

RTA segment contributed approximately 59.30% of the cummulative revenues. Do u see RTA segment holds the key to Hevea's strong growth in the current year and it will do even better next year. Evergreen being the latecomer to this segment will suffer the shortcoming of being late to the game whereby RTA only contributes to 5% of their revenues (*See page 17 of Evergreen's Annual Report)

Both companies are competitor. Nothing more obvious than that. When u plan to subscribe new mobile phone line, do u not compare maxis, digi, celcom, etc? So u compare those telco SP also not fair as a consumer? real funny logic by dolly_chai.

stockraider, a win is a win for Hevea no matter what u try to cover-up for EVERGREEN. Do u still want to cover-up the mountains of debts and the downside risks of EVERGREEN to the dear shareholders too? That is what I mean that you are seriously misleading people to buy EVERGREEN. Don't con people and be more factual in your information delivery.

Dolly_chai, I have to disagree with u that u labelled me as biased towards Hevea. I'm presenting the facts and figures with accountable reasoning only. Nothing is biased and certainly I can't say EVERGRN earn more when it's shown otherwise for HEVEA. Are u really telling me that u are more comfortable to become a shareholder of a net debt company instantly by buying it's shares? Let me summarize so u can compare again:

Hevea's latest quarter report announced on 22 Nov 2016.
CASH AND BANK BALANCES 109,790,000
LONG TERM BORROWINGS 6,947,000
SHORT-TERM BORROWINGS 8,164,000
Total debts: 15,111,000
Cash - Total Borrowings = 94,679,000 (*NET CASH POSITION)
No. of shares in circulation: 500,851,890 shares
94,679,000(Net cash) / 500,851,890 shares = *Worth RM (0.189) net cash a piece


Evergreen's latest quarter report announced on 28 Nov 2016.
CASH AND BANK BALANCES 141,018,000
LONG TERM BORROWINGS 108,952,000
SHORT-TERM BORROWINGS 107,633,000
Total debts: 216,585,000
Cash - Total Borrowings = -75,567,000 (*NET DEBTS POSITION)
No. of shares in circulation: 846,423,985 shares
-75,567,000(Net debts) / 846,423,985 shares = *Worth approx. RM (-0.089) per share


Which gearing level better? You should see the obvious.

Dolly_chai, book value is only good for 2 things, that is used to value a stock fair value based on NTA and to use it as leverage in future borrowings from financial institutions. If u are a logical shareholder of EVERGREEN, u wouldn't want the company to increase it's borrowings further using it's current assets. Be sane and calculate with realistic estimation of future earnings of EVERGREEN, that how many future quarterly results are needed to pay back the debts it currently has? Please take into account of the concurrent accrued interests monthly which are needed to be serviced periodically.

EVERGREEN's share price being under 1.00 is considered a penny stock and most people would see it as more actively trade-able with slight leverage. It's dangerous to undermine it's debts to earnings ratio which if the risks of lowered demand for it's MDF segment is below forecast will pose a serious risk to it's over expansion.

You were speaking on margin of safety. That is useful only when the company is heading for a bankruptcy and that is totally out of the question at the moment unless it cannot service it's borrowings further. Have u calculate how much the company is servicing it's borrowing interests monthly?

U better study both companies well before u say so. Let's see how do both companies do in months to come so u better don't be a coward again that time. Figures and fundamentals have shown the obvious. Stop ur bad intention in Hevea. Thank u!

stockraider, please be more factual and don't simply mislead people here or hevea. I have presented all facts and figures. Simply speak out what is intangible about a company's business directions or fundamentals are too subjective hence intangible to shareholders' terms. Kindly don't keep repeating your not factually-backed statements everywhere. Thank u!

Dolly_chai has raised the argument and i complement to that extent.

I have to point out where stockraider intentionally left off previously. You have not explain what "RISKS" that u are referring to HEVEA with accountable common basis. If u simply spell out nonsense without real basis, your argument is not accountable at all. I don't do rumours, gossip or speculation without any proper supporting basis. If that is the case, stockraider is just a half-filled bottle and that explains it all.

Dolly_chai, compare and evaluate it:

No. of shares in circulation
EVERGRN: 846,423,985 shares
HEVEA: 500,851,890 shares

EVERGRN
-75,567,000(Net debts) / 846,423,985 shares = *Worth approx. RM (-0.089) per share

HEVEA
94,679,000(Net cash) / 500,851,890 shares = *Worth RM (0.189) net cash a piece

This is a hypothesis whereby if these companies are to settle fully their debts resetting their gearing ratio and how much would it cost both EVERGRN and HEVEA? This does not applies to HEVEA because of net cash position. For EVERGRN, it requires shareholders to fork out RM0.089 of own money per share and that translates into another approx. 9% extra of what being paid for at even RM0.89 a piece share price. This is no small amount for substantial shareholders or those holding a considerable amount of EVERGRN shares. This is a losing end and make no good tangible business sense.

I have to point out where stockraider intentionally left off previously. You have not explain what "RISKS" that u are referring to HEVEA with accountable common basis. If u simply spell out nonsense without real basis, your argument is not accountable at all. I don't do rumours, gossip or speculation without any proper supporting basis. If that is the case, stockraider is just a half-filled bottle and that explains it all.

lol stockraider, it is better that u do not mislead others to buy into EVERGREEN. pls show your supporting argument points in a constructive manner.

For others who are interested whether I'm talking based on fact,figure and fundamental...kindly check my comments history. I don't repeat same stuff repeatedly with nonsense like somebody spamming. Thank u!

stockraider, may u explain to me and everyone what kind of "RISK" that u are referring to about HEVEA? I'm especially curious to know whether u are actually an empty bottle or simply buy a stock based on wrong metrics and factors or just because u are stuck in it.

Here u compare it:

INDIVIDUAL QUARTER 3 MONTHS ENDED (*Just 1 quarter)
EVERGREEN Net profit after taxation: 15,692,000
HEVEA Net profit after taxation: 17,233,000
*HEVEA has RM 1,541,000 more net profit after taxes for "latest quarter"

CUMULATIVE QUARTER 9 MONTHS ENDED (*Just 3 quarters combined)
EVERGREEN Net profit after taxation: 51,691,000
HEVEA Net profit after taxation: 52,662,000
*HEVEA has RM 971,000 more net profit after taxes for that "previous 3 quarters combined".

So in both cases whether individual or cummulative quarters combined, the net profit earnings of HEVEA is still superior than EVERGREEN. How do u label EVERGREEN as a market leader in terms of profitability ROI? "Bigger production facilities" or higher "sales volume" do not mean EVERGREEN has advantage over it's competitor.

stockraider, i prefer u talk about facts and figures and not to mislead people to buy EVERGREEN. So you purchase a stock because you think it is a market leader based on the wrong "FACTOR"? ROI and ROE of EVERGREEN is not better or efficient. What is the benefit for EVERGREEN of having a high turnover if the ROI is lower than the competitor? Is EVERGREEN still a market leader? Higher sales volume is not a good metric to gauge the business performance or more importantly profitability of returns of a particular company.

Which is a better and safer buy? EVERGRN or HEVEA ?

HEVEA at 1.50 share price:
PE 9.6
EPS 0.156
NTA 0.85
Market Cap 756,000,000

EVERGRRN at 0.970 share price:
PE 11
EPS 0.088
NTA 1.35
Market cap 817,000,000

NTA only matters if companies go bankrupt. So in terms of earnings, it seems that HEVEA is earning faster than EVERGRN with a net positive difference of 0.068 (0.156 - 0.088) and PE the lower the better. HEVEA has net cash of RM 94,679,000.00 now and can do whatever it wants immediately. If EVERGRN wants to do something like expansion or running the daily operations, it needs to raise more money from shareholders or borrowings and it has to service it's borrowings loans. Hevea should have higher market cap than EVERGRN based on earnings and business performance. Which do u see better?

Some people say EVERGREEN's debts are manageable? How is it seriously manageable?

Here are some fact & figure. Check it yourself? Which company u should buy at current economic climate?


Hevea's latest quarter report announced on 22 Nov 2016.
CASH AND BANK BALANCES 109,790,000
LONG TERM BORROWINGS 6,947,000
SHORT-TERM BORROWINGS 8,164,000
Total debts: 15,111,000
Cash - Total Borrowings = 94,679,000 (*NET CASH POSITION)


Evergreen's latest quarter report announced on 28 Nov 2016.
CASH AND BANK BALANCES 141,018,000
LONG TERM BORROWINGS 108,952,000
SHORT-TERM BORROWINGS 107,633,000
Total debts: 216,585,000
Cash - Total Borrowings = -75,567,000 (*NET DEBTS POSITION)