Hengyuan already has a negative unrealized culmulative Rm 1.3 billion on derivative losses on hedging mah!

On sustainability Thus alot of catching up, need to be done in the next 2 qtr bcos way behind loh!

These senior executive people resign also good mah!

Less bloated payroll mah!

Less relative of the MD securing high position....also good loh!

Bcos that means more emphasis on merits mah!

Posted by Mikecyc > 2 minutes ago | Report Abuse

Haha Just 2 Points :’ 



1) Boss bought 25 million share .. Top 3 Tunas with 4.92 % is Sold Over 50 million share as at March 2022 … Balance ard 16 million share .. still Selling ke ?? No need to Report,no body know !!! Top 4 Embun Yakin with 4.88 % is started Selling ke ??? And the 4 with surname Tan whom hold Less than 5 % , Total ard 14 % … Got action ke ??? 



2) Resignation of Principal Officer : 



A) ED Tan is resigned on June 2022 



B ) Ex CFO is resigned on June 2022 



C) CFO Tan whom is appointed on June is resigned on 4/8/2022 ….

Posted by Mikecyc > 2 minutes ago | Report Abuse

Haha Just 2 Points :’ 



1) Boss bought 25 million share .. Top 3 Tunas with 4.92 % is Sold Over 50 million share as at March 2022 … Balance ard 16 million share .. still Selling ke ?? No need to Report,no body know !!! Top 4 Embun Yakin with 4.88 % is started Selling ke ??? And the 4 with surname Tan whom hold Less than 5 % , Total ard 14 % … Got action ke ??? 



2) Resignation of Principal Officer : 



A) ED Tan is resigned on June 2022 



B ) Ex CFO is resigned on June 2022 



C) CFO Tan whom is appointed on June is resigned on 4/8/2022 ….

Ular,

haiiyahh....Raider just trying to be tactful loh!

Posted by UlarSawa > 5 minutes ago | Report Abuse

Wrong leh. Part 1 is running normal refinery business. Part 2 is gambling lah. Haiyoh. Correct?

Lu Tao Boh



stockraider

Thats why Raider split the business of Hengyuan into 2 parts loh!

1. Physical Refinery....where u deal with the physical products like crude & petroleum products like physical gasoline & diesel.

2. Virtual Refinery....that deal with virtual business....like speculative derivative & hedging business mah!

No lies lah!

All support by facts & figures thru very deep research mah!

Just be very careful loh!

Raider never bluff u mah!

Posted by BobAxelrod > 17 seconds ago | Report Abuse

I hope Raider is successful to crash the price to below 4.00 with his lies. Then he can meet up with MM to enjoy the celebrations. Raider can taste the chocolate from her cracks (pun intended) And we can collect more cheap HY...

Comimg back to Sifu SSLEE refinery business.........u can hedge by buying the cpo raw material from the future...but u cannot....sell palmoil olein....in the future mkt loh!

U can sell the future olein base on the fix price negotiated by individual buyers....usually secured using letter of credit mah!

Thus it is not so easy to forward sell too big bulk of olein palmoil at a future fixed price mah!

I ask whether Robert Kuok sustain its profit from operating its sugar business or making money by speculation in sugar future leh ???

Remember Tony fenandez.....make alot of money by buying aircraft for airasia instead of making money from operating airasia airlines loh!

In the end airasia...bankrupt & need restructuring bcos it over leverage on speculative buying in too many aircrafts much more than its reqn loh!

Remember i have mentioned....the Net Present Value of Petron at DCF 8% pa for 12 years is Rm 11.00 per share.

Thus the Petrol station should worth Rm 6.00 & the refinery is Rm 5.00 loh!

The Petrol station command higher valuation for its more stability in earnings just like Prtdag mah!

Remember i have mentioned....the Net Present Value of Petron at DCF 8% pa for 12 years is Rm 11.00 per share.

Thus the Petrol station should worth Rm 6.00 & the refinery is Rm 5.00 loh!

The Petrol station command higher valuation for its more stability in earnings just like Prtdag mah!

Remember i have mentioned....the Net Present Value of Petron at DCF 8% pa for 12 years is Rm 11.00 per share.

Thus the Petrol station should worth Rm 6.00 & the refinery is Rm 5.00 loh!

The Petrol station command higher valuation for its more stability in earnings just like Prtdag mah!

Do not get kon loh!

Remember even if there is any hedging gain due to the hedge will be use to covered more than Rm 1.3b hengyuan unrealized hedging losses mah!

Thus with current physical low crack spread MOGAS 92.....the low margin will unlikely to translate into any good operating profit for hengyuan in q3 loh!

Do not get kon loh!

Remember even if there is any hedging gain due to the hedge will be use to covered more than Rm 1.3b hengyuan unrealized hedging losses mah!

Thus with current physical low crack spread MOGAS 92.....the low margin will unlikely to translate into any good operating profit for hengyuan in q3 loh!

Do not get kon loh!

Remember even if there is any hedging gain due to the hedge will be use to covered more than Rm 1.3b hengyuan unrealized hedging losses mah!

Thus with current physical low crack spread MOGAS 92.....the low margin will unlikely to translate into any good operating profit for hengyuan in q3 loh!

Mr SEE,

The only i know....now is at Rm 1.07 & below....no one....can kon u more...bcos it is a worthwhile intelligent buy mah!

Remember this mah!

Just have confident lah!

If the owner & directors dare to buy so much of TSH, surely it is a worthwhile buy loh!

Just follow & buy below Rm 1.07 ....u will win loh!

Thats why Raider split the business of Hengyuan into 2 parts loh!

1. Physical Refinery....where u deal with the physical products like crude & petroleum products like physical gasoline & diesel.

2. Virtual Refinery....that deal with virtual business....like speculative derivative & hedging business mah!

Usually hedges....u match with all the derivatives in order to try to make....swap trading profit loh!

Thats why Raider split the business of Hengyuan into 2 parts loh!

1. Physical Refinery....where u deal with the physical products like crude & petroleum products like physical gasoline & diesel.

2. Virtual Refinery....that deal with virtual business....like speculative derivative & hedging business mah!

Usually hedges....u match with all the derivatives in order to try to make....swap trading profit loh!

Thats why Raider split the business of Hengyuan into 2 parts loh!

1. Physical Refinery....where u deal with the physical products like crude & petroleum products like physical gasoline & diesel.

2. Virtual Refinery....that deal with virtual business....like speculative derivative & hedging business mah!

Usually hedges....u match with all the derivatives in order to try to make....swap trading profit loh!

Thus what is the relevant of the nymex high future Gasoline & Diesel Price leh?

It is for those who theoritically want to make money from hedging by buying....crude oil nymex future & hedge the position by selling the future price of gasoline & diesel in nymex loh!

As i says....although on paper ....this look attractive....but it is not always....end up profitable loh!

The REASONS why ?

2.Virtual Refinery Business model thru pure hedging & derivative loh!
Do u notice that Hengyuan lose alot of monies consistently most of the time despite, mathematical computation on paper the derivative & hedge is highly profitable as per feedback of SSLEE and Probability leh ?

This is bcos the paper computation derivative & hedge shows profit do not reflect the reality situation & business dynamics of the trade loh! Reasons are as follows loh:

The Virtual Refinery Purchase its future crude by purchasing from NYMEX & compute it sells on Nymex sell price of Petrol & Diesel which showed a good profit when doing its hedge but how come this trade fail & registered big losses at the end leh ?

1. The mkt is very dynamic loh! On paper u may see big virtual profit by hedging future crude purchase & future sell of petrol & diesel end products....but when time come for settlement in turnout to be a loss loh!
Why leh the complete hedge trade of buying & selling here cannot convert to a easy profit, like paper indicated leh ?
a. This is bcos the movement of future crude purchase price, do not completely correlate to the selling future price of petrol & diesel price due to huge mkt volatility mah! Just within a day the business dynamic may change loh! Like within 1 day the Crude Price go up 10% whereas the Petrol & Diesel selling future price did not move at all or vice versa loh!
b. The trade initiated are pure paper swap with no delivery of physical goods, thats why it may not reflect the real dynamic of a real physical refinery mah!
c. Even it involve actual delivery of the commodities, there are extra cost & logistic to bring this commodities for processing to convert it to a profit mah!
d. Thus the virtual refinery of Hengyuan business model has shown consistent losses bcos of this challenges discussed above loh!

Thus what is the relevant of the nymex high future Gasoline & Diesel Price leh?

It is for those who theoritically want to make money from hedging by buying....crude oil nymex future & hedge the position by selling the future price of gasoline & diesel in nymex loh!

As i says....although on paper ....this look attractive....but it is not always....end up profitable loh!

The REASONS why ?

2.Virtual Refinery Business model thru pure hedging & derivative loh!
Do u notice that Hengyuan lose alot of monies consistently most of the time despite, mathematical computation on paper the derivative & hedge is highly profitable as per feedback of SSLEE and Probability leh ?

This is bcos the paper computation derivative & hedge shows profit do not reflect the reality situation & business dynamics of the trade loh! Reasons are as follows loh:

The Virtual Refinery Purchase its future crude by purchasing from NYMEX & compute it sells on Nymex sell price of Petrol & Diesel which showed a good profit when doing its hedge but how come this trade fail & registered big losses at the end leh ?

1. The mkt is very dynamic loh! On paper u may see big virtual profit by hedging future crude purchase & future sell of petrol & diesel end products....but when time come for settlement in turnout to be a loss loh!
Why leh the complete hedge trade of buying & selling here cannot convert to a easy profit, like paper indicated leh ?
a. This is bcos the movement of future crude purchase price, do not completely correlate to the selling future price of petrol & diesel price due to huge mkt volatility mah! Just within a day the business dynamic may change loh! Like within 1 day the Crude Price go up 10% whereas the Petrol & Diesel selling future price did not move at all or vice versa loh!
b. The trade initiated are pure paper swap with no delivery of physical goods, thats why it may not reflect the real dynamic of a real physical refinery mah!
c. Even it involve actual delivery of the commodities, there are extra cost & logistic to bring this commodities for processing to convert it to a profit mah!
d. Thus the virtual refinery of Hengyuan business model has shown consistent losses bcos of this challenges discussed above loh!

Thus what is the relevant of the nymex high future Gasoline & Diesel Price leh?

It is for those who theoritically want to make money from hedging by buying....crude oil nymex future & hedge the position by selling the future price of gasoline & diesel in nymex loh!

As i says....although on paper ....this look attractive....but it is not always....end up profitable loh!

The REASONS why ?

2.Virtual Refinery Business model thru pure hedging & derivative loh!
Do u notice that Hengyuan lose alot of monies consistently most of the time despite, mathematical computation on paper the derivative & hedge is highly profitable as per feedback of SSLEE and Probability leh ?

This is bcos the paper computation derivative & hedge shows profit do not reflect the reality situation & business dynamics of the trade loh! Reasons are as follows loh:

The Virtual Refinery Purchase its future crude by purchasing from NYMEX & compute it sells on Nymex sell price of Petrol & Diesel which showed a good profit when doing its hedge but how come this trade fail & registered big losses at the end leh ?

1. The mkt is very dynamic loh! On paper u may see big virtual profit by hedging future crude purchase & future sell of petrol & diesel end products....but when time come for settlement in turnout to be a loss loh!
Why leh the complete hedge trade of buying & selling here cannot convert to a easy profit, like paper indicated leh ?
a. This is bcos the movement of future crude purchase price, do not completely correlate to the selling future price of petrol & diesel price due to huge mkt volatility mah! Just within a day the business dynamic may change loh! Like within 1 day the Crude Price go up 10% whereas the Petrol & Diesel selling future price did not move at all or vice versa loh!
b. The trade initiated are pure paper swap with no delivery of physical goods, thats why it may not reflect the real dynamic of a real physical refinery mah!
c. Even it involve actual delivery of the commodities, there are extra cost & logistic to bring this commodities for processing to convert it to a profit mah!
d. Thus the virtual refinery of Hengyuan business model has shown consistent losses bcos of this challenges discussed above loh!

One more thing...people need to take note loh...!!

Even if Nymex....has high future Gasoline & Diesel Price...it does not translate to high margin for hengyuan mah, bcos the govt do not use USA & Europe nymex future price for gasoline & diesel....in fixing the selling price of the refinery mah!

The Govt use Crude oil price, exchange rate and MOGAS 92 crack spread to fix the refinery fix selling price mah!

Do not let Probability spin U loh!

One more thing...people need to take note loh...!!

Even if Nymex....has high future Gasoline & Diesel Price...it does not translate to high margin for hengyuan mah, bcos the govt do not use USA & Europe nymex future price for gasoline & diesel....in fixing the selling price of the refinery mah!

The Govt use Crude oil price, exchange rate and MOGAS 92 crack spread to fix the refinery fix selling price mah!

Do not let Probability spin U loh!

One more thing...people need to take note loh...!!

Even if Nymex....has high future Gasoline & Diesel Price...it does not translate to high margin for hengyuan mah, bcos the govt do not use USA & Europe nymex future price for gasoline & diesel....in fixing the selling price of the refinery mah!

The Govt use Crude oil price, exchange rate and MOGAS 92 crack spread to fix the refinery fix selling price mah!

Do not let Probability spin U loh!

Both Gasoline & diesel future price came down, thats why the future crack spread for Mogas 92 is so low mah!

Lu tau boh ?

Posted by probability > 29 seconds ago | Report Abuse

Why Gasoline margin came down but its not so easy for Diesel?
............................................................

EU refinery are 90% simple type, asians like HY are mainly complex type

for simplicity they product yields are as per below:

keyword note - this output ratio cannot be altered

Simple refinery:

Both Gasoline & diesel future price came down, thats why the future crack spread for Mogas 92 is so low mah!

Lu tau boh ?

Posted by probability > 29 seconds ago | Report Abuse

Why Gasoline margin came down but its not so easy for Diesel?
............................................................

EU refinery are 90% simple type, asians like HY are mainly complex type

for simplicity they product yields are as per below:

keyword note - this output ratio cannot be altered

Simple refinery:

Both Gasoline & diesel future price came down, thats why the future crack spread for Mogas 92 is so low mah!

Lu tau boh ?

Posted by probability > 29 seconds ago | Report Abuse

Why Gasoline margin came down but its not so easy for Diesel?
............................................................

EU refinery are 90% simple type, asians like HY are mainly complex type

for simplicity they product yields are as per below:

keyword note - this output ratio cannot be altered

Simple refinery:

If the virtual refinery of buying crude future & hedging it buy selling future petrol & diesel with a good paper profit computed by SSLEE & Probability really work, then General Raider will make billions just with Rm 10 million....by just doing repeating regular hedge base on the formula advocated by Probability & SSLEE mah!

If that is highly successful....Raider will become a billionaire, bcos it is risk free....bcos everything is hedge......with good reasonable paper profit, when the hedge is done mah!

Then why we need a refinery leh ??

The truth it is not true mah!
The deal done ....is actual speculative & unsustainable... despite fully hedge loh!

The situation & dynamics.. does not applies only to CRUDE & Petroleum mkt...but will apply to every commodity like Palmoil, Soyabean Oil, Metal etc loh!

U can do it on paper & completely hedge on paper with a reasonable profit....but the end still did not make money loh!

Thats is the reasons why....NOBLE....a large listed company in singapore dealing with trading of commodities go bankrupt despite having all the software & resources to support its trade loh!

I think sifu like SSLEE & Probability are just naive....by claiming a fully hedge position will make monies loh!

That is the reasons why ESSO & Shell refuse to do hedging loh!

Also that is the reasons why hengyuan registered a huge unrealised hedging losses on its derivative loh!
And this is beside the risk of raider fear of hengyuan intention of siphoning money loh!

Understanding why Prominent Previous Refinery Owner in Msia like Shell & Esso do not do hedging ?

1.The traditional business model of hardcore refinery are simple loh!
They buy physical crude & refine it to physical petrol & diesel and sell at price base on formula with reference to Crude Price, Exchange Rate & Crack Spread fixed by Msia Govt and make money mah!

They do not do fwd hedging n their natural hedge is the inventory they have in hand & their refinery to quickly efficiently process the crude to mainly Petrol & Diesel & quickly sell base on the fixed formula the msia Govt had set loh!

Now with the introduction of Hengyuan, it has modified the refinery model as follows loh!

1. Traditional Refinery Business Model as highlighted above.
2. Virtual Refinery Business Model using Paper Derivative as an investment & hedge to generate profit to be discussed below loh:

2.Virtual Refinery Business model thru pure hedging & derivative loh!
Do u notice that Hengyuan lose alot of monies consistently most of the time despite, mathematical computation on paper the derivative & hedge is highly profitable as per feedback of SSLEE and Probability leh ?

This is bcos the paper computation derivative & hedge shows profit do not reflect the reality situation & business dynamics of the trade loh! Reasons are as follows loh:

The Virtual Refinery Purchase its future crude by purchasing from NYMEX & compute it sells on Nymex sell price of Petrol & Diesel which showed a good profit when doing its hedge but how come this trade fail & registered big losses at the end leh ?

1. The mkt is very dynamic loh! On paper u may see big virtual profit by hedging future crude purchase & future sell of petrol & diesel end products....but when time come for settlement in turnout to be a loss loh!
Why leh the complete hedge trade of buying & selling here cannot convert to a easy profit, like paper indicated leh ?
a. This is bcos the movement of future crude purchase price, do not completely correlate to the selling future price of petrol & diesel price due to huge mkt volatility mah! Just within a day the business dynamic may change loh! Like within 1 day the Crude Price go up 10% whereas the Petrol & Diesel selling future price did not move at all or vice versa loh!
b. The trade initiated are pure paper swap with no delivery of physical goods, thats why it may not reflect the real dynamic of a real physical refinery mah!
c. Even it involve actual delivery of the commodities, there are extra cost & logistic to bring this commodities for processing to convert it to a profit mah!
d. Thus the virtual refinery of Hengyuan business model has shown consistent losses bcos of this challenges discussed above loh!

As Raider says...it is unlikely to be so simple like SSLEE & Probability claim loh!

WHY THE HEDGING COMPUTATION OF SSLEE & PROFITABILITY WOULD NOT WORK ?

Ask yourself this loh!

If the virtual refinery of buying crude future & hedging it buy selling future petrol & diesel with a good paper profit computed by SSLEE & Probability really work, then General Raider will make billions just with Rm 10 million....by just doing repeating regular hedge base on the formula advocated by Probability & SSLEE mah!

If that is highly successful....Raider will repeat the process again & again and become a billionaire, bcos it is risk free....bcos everything is hedge......with good reasonable paper profit, when the hedge is done mah!

Then why we need a refinery leh ?? Thus we do not really need a physical refinery, just do repeating hedging trade will be highly successful mah!

Thats why i say....u cannot inferred from SSLEE simply guessing by trying very to fit into the margin for gasoline loh!

Dynamic can or has change mah!
Like type of crude, processes of refinery and management intention to churn type of product mix etc loh!

Any misuse of assumption & data will derail this SSLEE very crude model mah!

The possibility of SSLEE model is highly inaccurate is possible mah!

Lu tau boh ??

No need REfinery mah.....just do hedging loh.....if so profitable......and sure profit & no risk mah!

Remember any hedging gain due to the hedge will be use to covered more than Rm 1.3b hengyuan unrealized hedging losses mah!

Thus with current physical low crack spread.....the low margin will unlikely to translate into good operating profit for hengyuan in q3 loh!

Remember any hedging gain due to the hedge will be use to covered more than Rm 1.3b hengyuan unrealized hedging losses mah!

Thus with current physical low crack spread.....the low margin will unlikely to translate into good operating profit for hengyuan in q3 loh!

WHY THE HEDGING COMPUTATION OF SSLEE & PROFITABILITY WOULD NOT WORK ?

Ask yourself this loh!

If the virtual refinery of buying crude future & hedging it buy selling future petrol & diesel with a good paper profit computed by SSLEE & Probability really work, then General Raider will make billions just with Rm 10 million....by just doing repeating regular hedge base on the formula advocated by Probability & SSLEE mah!

If that is highly successful....Raider will repeat the process again & again and become a billionaire, bcos it is risk free....bcos everything is hedge......with good reasonable paper profit, when the hedge is done mah!

Then why we need a refinery leh ?? Thus we do not really need a physical refinery, just do repeating hedging trade will be highly successful mah!

No need mah.....just do hedging loh.....if so profitable......and sure profit mah!

Thats why i say....u cannot inferred from SSLEE simply guessing by trying very to fit into the margin for gasoline loh!

Dynamic can or has change mah!
Like type of crude, processes of refinery and management intention to churn type of product mix etc loh!

Any misuse of assumption & data will derail this SSLEE very crude model mah!

The possibility of SSLEE model is highly inaccurate is possible mah!

Lu tau boh ??

Yes Hengyuan can hedge....but they should do it modestly like Petron, even after netting the hedging losses, net effect is still positive profit for Petron...this is what a hedging should be...smoothing the profit every qtr loh

But what Hengyuan is doing is big gambling & siphoning money loh!

Lu tau boh ?

Posted by Sslee > 6 minutes ago | Report Abuse

MoneyMakers Only probability/sslee think HY hedging always perfect/profitable
Dunno whether they blind or what - never see HY soo many prev QR got losses

MM can you read english?
If you can that don't put your word into my mouth and read again and again :

What I say is to be objective and look into Q2 result.
Page 8
The profit/(loss) before taxation is arrived at after crediting)/charging
Fair value loss on derivative financial instruments:
Q2: RM 438,758,000. Cumulative RM 870,964,000
Page 5
Operating profit before changes in working capital RM 939,171,000

So in H1 the realised fair value loss on derivative is RM 870,964,000 and HRC still able to make an operating profit before changes in working capital RM 939,171,000.

Hence should you be very afraid of the unrealised losses RM1,079.600,000 marked to market (as on 31/06/22 when the crack spread was at the peak) outstanding derivatives till proclaims that HRC will have cash flow problems and going to bankrupt like Serba or AAX or CapitalA.

In other word if HRC do not do hedged by now H1 sale volume of about 21 million barrels should have gave them a super fat profit before tax of RM RM 870,964,000 + RM 982,535,000
Or a profit before tax of about USD 20 per barrel.

All these Hengyuan info Raider presented is supported by fact & figures mah!

U can check it for yourself, since Raider had given direction where to Check Mah!

Lu tau boh ?

Why General Raider says Sifu Sslee analysis on Hengyuan is dangerous flawed ?

1. Looking at the balance sheet HRC hedging losses as at 30-6-2022 amounted to rm Rm 1,329M of this sum of losses Rm 1189m or 90% are contributed by just 6 mths of operation result for the latest 30-6-2022 Financial result loh!

2. HRC derivative outstanding liabilities todate is Rm 1,781M whereas is derivative assets is Rm 261m, meaning net derivative negative exposure is Rm 1,520M.....meaning the counter party should be able received payment of Rm 1,520M from Hengyuan, it is just like your share margin losses loh!

3. Then why counterparty did not ask for margin call , since HRC has a huge negative equity of Rm 1520M leh ? Yes the counter party did ask for margin top up and hengyuan already paid, this can be seen from other receivable & prepayment payout increases by Rm 1,542M for the 6 mths mah!

In otherwords, Hengyuan 6 mths operating cashflow b4 working capital changes should be Rm 939m, after less Rm 1542M derivative top up amounting to negative cashflow of Rm 603M mah!

The route to potential financial collapse of Hengyuan, are written all there in the Derivative mah!

Do not get into this trap loh! Despite Hengyuan generated record positive operation cash flow of Rm 939m, its negative cashflow from derivative losses is rm 1,542m ( which already payout as other prepayment} thus HRC negative cashflow is Rm 603M.

Most importantly, Hengyuan borrowing & derivative liabilities had ballooned to Rm 3285M from just Rm 705m as at 31-12-2021 which a staggering increase of Rm 2580M, just within 6 mths and of this sum Rm 1542M is due to margin top up of derivative losses in the form of prepayment mah!

Lu tau boh ? The rot of Hengyuan has intensified alot loh!
Be very careful mah!

Yes if this is spend on capex....this will appear in the balance sheet & the nta per share will not disappear from Rm 9.90 per share to Rm 5.25 per share now mah!

It is likely disappear due to hedging losses loh!

Posted by Sslee > 3 minutes ago | Report Abuse

Stockraider know how much Capex is needed to upgrade refinery to produce:
EURO 4M Petrol
EURO 5 DIESEL

Both Petron and HRC already done the Capex for upgrading and this year onward will have more cash for dividend.

Lu tau boh ?


stockraider

30,326 posts

Posted by stockraider > 6 days ago | Report Abuse

The fear is still high risk of siphoning money thru derivative loh!

Correctloh....culmulative eps of Rm 6.64 from 2017 to 2022 v div Rm 0.16 loh!

Thus just earnings from 2017 to 2022 net off dividend is Rm 6.54 per share mah!
This exclude its existing nta of Rm 3.36 per share in 31-12-2016
If u include this 2016 figure.....it will be Rm 9.9 per share loh!

The current NTA of Hengyuan per share is only rm 5.25 per share mah!
Compare to Rm 9.90 per share above loh!

That means Rm 9.90 minus Rm 5.25 per share = Rm 4.65 per share in which a big part of this is due to suspect siphoning from derivative in the form of derivative losses loh!

Posted by CharlesT > 4 minutes ago | Report Abuse

HY's past year EPS

FY 2017 EPS RM3+
FY 2018 EPS Rm0.10+
FY 2019 EPS RM0.11+
FY 2020 EPS RM0.80+
FY 2021 EPS RM0.25+
FY 2022 (FH) EPS RM2.38+

VS

Div so far RM0.16

They already started siphoning mah....from gain of Rm 1.1b....now it is a loss of more than Rm 1.1b mah!

Do u know....more than Rm 2.2b....has just disappear ah from 2020 to 2022 todate now leh ?

"Notice that Petron Eps attributable to shareholders & Petron comprehensive income to shareholders are the same bcos Petron treat Hedging gain & loss must flow thru the P&L which is the rightful treatment loh!
Petron reported a positive position after flowing thru its hedging losses to the P&L top line, this should be what hedging operation should be all about by smoothing out its profitability but not in hengyuan case with losses run into billions ?"

There is no justfication Hengyuan valuation should be supported due to wrongful reporting of its profit & huge losses of its derivative mah!

Let Raider summarised hengyuan position loh!

1.HRC Q2 for 30-6-2022
2. HRC 6mts 30-6-2022

1a.Profit/{loss} attributable to shareholder............Rm 667m
1b. Profit/{loss? comprehensive to shareholder...Rm {412}m
number of shares Rm 300m
1a. Eps Rm 2.22
1b Eps Rm {1.37}

Culmulative 6m
2a, Profit attributable to shareholders..... Rm 714m
2b. Profit comprehensive income shareholders Rm (475m}

2a, EPS Rm Rm 2.38
2b. Eps Rm {1.58}

Notice that Petron Eps attributable to shareholders & Petron comprehensive income to shareholders are the same bcos Petron treat Hedging gain & loss must flow thru the P&L which is the rightful treatment loh!
Petron reported a positive position after flowing thru its hedging losses to the P&L top line, this should be what hedging operation should be all about by smoothing out its profitability but not in hengyuan case with losses run into billions ?

But hengyuan do not loh! It keep the hedging loss as no impact to EPS loh!

If we standardised the treatment like Petron....Hengyuan will be reporting huge losses loh!

Rightfully Hedging losses should flow thru P&L mah!

Thus Hengyuan performance appear very bad compare to Petron loh!

The most danger question is the hedging instrument is completely unrelated to business hedging but it is a device instrument to siphon money from hengyuan loh!

The red flags can be seen by;

1. Many qtr of hedging losses loh!
2. Very suspicious long dated of the hedging instrument loh!
3. Extremely large hedging value has been contracted mah!
4. Extremely Huge hedging losses incurred todate loh!

If the above suspicion is proven true.....then hengyuan will eventually be worthless just like Serba loh!

Correctloh....!

With Hengyuan languishing at Rm 475m losses as at 30-6-2022....very hard for it to catch up with negative crack spread loh!

Posted by MoneyMakers > 9 minutes ago | Report Abuse

Walao Oct/Nov/Dec future crack all alrdy turn (-)

Totally collapse leh


stockraider

30,326 posts

Posted by stockraider > 1 week ago | Report Abuse

Raider already explain loh!

I m shocked Hengyuan has hedging of more than 3 yrs long....what type of coockkeed hedging hengyuan is doing leh ?

Very important u should ask what is the current crack spread as at 2-9-2022?

sept 2022- USD 0.80
0ct 2022 - USD (0.70}
Nov 2022- USD (0.65}
Dec 2022= USD {0.18}

From the above trend the future crack spread trend is highly unattractive with low yield & negative yield loh!

A reasonable yield crack spread should be around USD 4 mah!

This mean Prtron future 12 mths for 31-12-2022 performance will not exceed profit of Rm 289m or EPS Rm 1.07!

Whereas HRC 31-12-2022 future 12 mths performance will not report better result of loss rm 475m or loss of Rm 1.58 per share loh!

The most question for those people who invest in hengyuan is to ask whether the derivative executed are actually a faked device to siphon money from the company loh ?

The most danger question is the hedging instrument is completely unrelated to business hedging but it is a device instrument to siphon money from hengyuan loh!

The red flags can be seen by;

1. Many qtr of hedging losses loh!
2. Very suspicious long dated of the hedging instrument loh!
3. Extremely large hedging value has been contracted mah!
4. Extremely Huge hedging losses incurred todate loh!

If the above suspicion is proven true.....then hengyuan will eventually be worthless just like Serba loh!

Be extremely very careful on hengyuan loh!

Very Important Revision mah!

Let Raider summarised hengyuan position loh!

1.HRC Q2 for 30-6-2022
2. HRC 6mts 30-6-2022

1a.Profit/{loss} attributable to shareholder............Rm 667m
1b. Profit/{loss? comprehensive to shareholder...Rm {412}m
number of shares Rm 300m
1a. Eps Rm 2.22
1b Eps Rm {1.37}

Culmulative 6m
2a, Profit attributable to shareholders..... Rm 714m
2b. Profit comprehensive income shareholders Rm (475m}

2a, EPS Rm Rm 2.38
2b. Eps Rm {1.58}

Notice that Petron Eps attributable to shareholders & Petron comprehensive income to shareholders are the same bcos Petron treat Hedging gain & loss must flow thru the P&L which is the rightful treatment loh!

But hengyuan do not loh! It keep the hedging loss as no impact to EPS loh!

If we standardised the treatment like Petron....Hengyuan will be reporting huge losses loh!

Rightfully Hedging losses should flow thru P&L mah!

Thus Hengyuan performance appear very bad compare to Petron loh!

xx

Remember this mah!

Just have confident lah!

If the owner & directors dare to buy so much of TSH, surely it is a worthwhile buy loh!

Just follow & buy below Rm 1.07 ....u will win loh!

Open your mind & ask yourself, why did u buy TSH previously mah!

It is opportunity now mah!

Lu tau boh ?

Posted by SEE_Research > 27 seconds ago | Report Abuse

To : stockraider To : Wolf Past time Pastor / today is 10 September 2022 is DEFINITELY Saturday , for 12 September 2022 is Monday ; and for 11 September 2022 _ what is the day of the week __ ? is it Monday _ ? or you twist and turn , turn and twist _ 11 September 2022 _ are you Wolf Past time Pastor is going to hibernate in this place of service _ 201 Pandan Gardens, Singapore 609337 and savour your free meals in this place _ ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwfmbXJEBtY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-vGrY8PjmY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2n8Nexdft8I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXV1egVqi2c&t=15s

Volume past 1 wk very strong loh!

Like simething is brewing mah!

Collect loh....good div mah!

U talk rubbish mah!

U NO netx exposure, all this while loh!

Posted by Shootup > 2 days ago | Report Abuse

mr calvin, if u are substantial shareholder, u should help company grow business, not sitting there. Company dont want u to earning good money just by sitting there. Or u can just let go ur hands... let other person bear the responsibility to help grow netx businesss...

Opportunity mah!

Do not be stubborn loh!

Look into the opportunity loh!