I m trying to be positive but seeing such a huge losses of HY derivative, i see no hope loh!
But i have faithed in Petron loh!

Posted by probability > 4 minutes ago | Report Abuse

we actually want raider to lead the comrades...but unfortunately he is a broken soldier....extremely pessimistic and apprehensive lor! :(

The other point is hedging will definitely result in Profit or LOSS in the case of Hengyuan mah!

Take June QTR....hengyuan reported more than Rm 600m losses but its hedging losses is more than Rm 1 billion mah! Net losses exceed Rm 400m loh!
But hengyuan play magic reported operation profit of Rm 600m & ignore the Rm 1 billion hedging losses loh!

Now say base on 3rd qtr sept 2022 coming report....Hengyuan will report operation losses due to negative crack spread....but for its derivative, even positive contribution if any...should it not cover the existing outstanding hedging losses leh ??

That means Hengyuan P&L will still report a huge operating losses for SEPT QTR....whereas the hedging gain will will use to cover some its outstanding culmulative losses mah!

Thus HY will not have a position of Head win N Tail also win....like playing magic loh!

Petron P&L is different loh....refinery operation losses in q3....can be covered by hedging gain plus retail profit of petrol station mah!

Thats why i say....u cannot inferred from SSLEE simply guessing by trying very to fit into the margin for gasoline loh!

Dynamic can or has change mah!
Like type of crude, processes of refinery and management intention to churn type of product mix etc loh!

Any misuse of assumption & data will derail this SSLEE very crude model mah!

The possibility of SSLEE model is highly inaccurate is possible mah!

Lu tau boh ??

Thats why i say....u cannot inferred from SSLEE simply guessing by trying very to fit into the margin for gasoline loh!

Dynamic can or has change mah!
Like type of crude, processes of refinery and management intention to churn type of product mix etc loh!

Any misuse of assumption & data will derail this SSLEE very crude model mah!

The possibility of SSLEE model is highly inaccurate is possible mah!

Lu tau boh ??

Correction loh....For June 2022 qtr it is actually more than Rm 400m net losses but more than Rm 1 billion hedging losses mah!

Posted by eagerinvestor > 29 seconds ago | Report Abuse

a company that able to make bil in a quarter having a bil hedging is excessive?

And also how probabilty knows....Hengyuan has hedge 18 million barrel ?

The key is how probability knows about the specific profit margin of Hengyuan Gasoline & Diesel when this data unavailable leh ?

The public only had access to MOGAS 92 spread.....which is now negative margin loh!

We do not know, how & where Hengyuan very huge derivative losses come about, whether bcos selling or buying Crude, Gasoline or Diesel or Forex or a combination of all these loh!

Or is it really a fake....derivative structure to siphon out the value of hengyuan business mah!

As for MOGAS gasoline & diesel hedging, it is actually unnecessary bcos....the Msia Govt already set the price base on crack spread mah!

What the refinery need to do is to lock in & secure the crude inventory and price loh?

Hengyuan losses to tune of billion, seems to be highly excessive & unimagineable loh!

Some may think is done intentionally just to siphon money loh!

That is old 2021 info mah!

The dynamics could change anytime mah!

The public only had access to MOGAS 92 spread.....which is now negative margin loh!

We do not know, how & where Hengyuan very huge derivative losses come about, whether bcos selling or buying Crude, Gasoline or Diesel or Forex or a combination of all these loh!

Or is it really a fake....derivative structure to siphon out the value of hengyuan business mah!

Posted by probability > 36 seconds ago | Report Abuse

@raider for you. Among the two possibility below, only gasoline fits the crack hedged value as found in 2021 annual report page 130 where the margin max was around 12 USD/brl.
The lowest crack spread closing on 30 June 2022 is for gasoline only around 31USD/brl (other like Diesel & Jet Fuel is way higher). Only using the lowest, you can derived the low value crack hedged as per annual report of about 12 USD/brl. Using gasoline the hedged barrels is 18 millions as derived by sslee.
As such, you need to be good in maths to understand how these are deduced.

Posted by Sslee > Sep 2, 2022 8:59 AM | Report Abuse

Dear probability,
The outstanding Refining margin swap contract as on 30/06/2022
Notional amount: USD 226,945,000
Assets: RM 261,065,000
Liabilities: RM 1,751,332,000
Hence unrealized loss RM (1,751,332,000-261,065,000) = RM 1,490,267,000

On 30/06/2022:
Mogas92 crack spread: USD 31.578
Diesel crack spread: USD 56.125
Average of the two USD (31.578+56.125)/2= USD43.85
USD to MYR: 4.397

V: Volume of outstanding refining margin swap contract (Barrels)
A: Average outstanding margin per barrel hedged (USD)

Equation:
from notional amount: V x A=226,945,000 or V=226,945,000/A
from unrealized loss: V x (43.85 – A) = 1,490,267,000/4.397

226,945,000 x (43.85 – A) = 338,928,133 x A
9,951,538,250= (338,928,113 + 226,945,000) x A
A= 9,951,538,250/565,873,133
A= 17.586
V=226,945,000/17.586
V=12,904,746

If you use only Mogas92 crack spread: USD 31.58
Equation:
V x A=226,945,000 or V=226,945,000/A
V x (31.58 – A) = 1,490,267,000/4.397

226,945,000 x (31.58 – A) = 338,928,133 x A
7,166,923,100= (338,928,113 + 226,945,000) x A
A= 7,166,923,100/565,873,133
A= 12.665
V=226,945,000/12.665
V= 17,918,718

All back up by facts & figure lah!
Read again very carefully loh!

Why General Raider says Sifu Sslee analysis on Hengyuan is dangerous flawed ?

1. Looking at the balance sheet HRC hedging losses as at 30-6-2022 amounted to rm Rm 1,329M of this sum of losses Rm 1189m or 90% are contributed by just 6 mths of operation result for the latest 30-6-2022 Financial result loh!

2. HRC derivative outstanding liabilities todate is Rm 1,781M whereas is derivative assets is Rm 261m, meaning net derivative negative exposure is Rm 1,520M.....meaning the counter party should be able received payment of Rm 1,520M from Hengyuan, it is just like your share margin losses loh!

3. Then why counterparty did not ask for margin call , since HRC has a huge negative equity of Rm 1520M leh ? Yes the counter party did ask for margin top up and hengyuan already paid, this can be seen from other receivable & prepayment payout increases by Rm 1,542M for the 6 mths mah!

In otherwords, Hengyuan 6 mths operating cashflow b4 working capital changes should be Rm 939m, after less Rm 1542M derivative top up amounting to negative cashflow of Rm 603M mah!

The route to potential financial collapse of Hengyuan, are written all there in the Derivative mah!

Do not get into this trap loh! Despite Hengyuan generated record positive operation cash flow of Rm 939m, its negative cashflow from derivative losses is rm 1,542m ( which already payout as other prepayment} thus HRC negative cashflow is Rm 603M.

Most importantly, Hengyuan borrowing & derivative liabilities had ballooned to Rm 3285M from just Rm 705m as at 31-12-2021 which a staggering increase of Rm 2580M, just within 6 mths and of this sum Rm 1542M is due to margin top up of derivative losses in the form of prepayment mah!

Lu tau boh ? The rot of Hengyuan has intensified alot loh!
Be very careful mah!


Posted by MoneyMakers > 18 seconds ago | Report Abuse

S’raider u stuck high HY at what price during 2018 collapse (rm19-rm3)??

See u got crazy ptsd @ forever hate HY

Again this Probability spin again loh!

How do u know hengyuan hedge 18 million barrel leh ??

Blee,

My advice to u is stay very clear of Hengyuan loh!

All the while Raider suspect fake hedging mah!

Lu tak ala baca baik baik ah ?

Posted by UlarSawa > 8 seconds ago | Report Abuse

Now Raider suspect fake hedging lah. Haiyoh. Correct?

eagerinvestor

low margin hedge more u guys shud complain la if high margin hedge more also complain meh?
if high margin didnt' hedge enuff u guys complain why such an oppurtunity also didn't hedge it. Maybe hedging is such a bad word for ppl that dun understand it. To those ppl that own a factory, hedging means locking in profit.

2 seconds ago

Correctloh...!

Saving ahfah son, sifu sslee & general public mah!

Very noble intention mah!

Posted by UlarSawa > 2 minutes ago | Report Abuse

No lah. Raider managed to saved himself and also saved AhFah the veggies seller at pudu market and AhFah managed to paid all her son education fee in Australia. And now Raider want to save AhFah son that gamble on HY lah. Haiyoh. Correct?



probability

ha ha even MM beginning to rationalize and realize...

great job MM!

Posted by MoneyMakers > 3 seconds ago | Report Abuse

S’raider u stuck high HY at what price during 2018 collapse (rm19-rm3)??

See u got crazy ptsd @ forever hate HY

20 seconds ago

I suspect the derivative trader is done between the owner macai & hengyuan mah!
Not thru an official exchange lah!

Do not be silly loh!

Posted by i3lurker > 1 minute ago | Report Abuse

silly feller NYSE start 9:30 and do oil trading NYSE

Posted by i3lurker > 26 minutes ago | Report Abuse

Crude Oil can be traded via 3 main channels,
[still got others its called dll, not a bad word its => dan lain lain]

1) Oil Physicals & Futures
2) NYSE ETFs
3) OTC swaps

I suspect the derivative trader is done between the owner macai & hengyuan mah!
Not thru an official exchange lah!

Do not be silly loh!

Posted by i3lurker > 1 minute ago | Report Abuse

silly feller NYSE start 9:30 and do oil trading NYSE

Posted by i3lurker > 26 minutes ago | Report Abuse

Crude Oil can be traded via 3 main channels,
[still got others its called dll, not a bad word its => dan lain lain]

1) Oil Physicals & Futures
2) NYSE ETFs
3) OTC swaps

I suspect the derivative trader is done between the owner macai & hengyuan mah!
Not thru an official exchange lah!

Do not be silly loh!

Posted by i3lurker > 1 minute ago | Report Abuse

silly feller NYSE start 9:30 and do oil trading NYSE

Posted by i3lurker > 26 minutes ago | Report Abuse

Crude Oil can be traded via 3 main channels,
[still got others its called dll, not a bad word its => dan lain lain]

1) Oil Physicals & Futures
2) NYSE ETFs
3) OTC swaps

Raider asklah....how could embargo on Russia....help Hengyuan & Petron....to make more money leh ??

The impact is remote mah!

Also Msia is not exporting diesel & gasoline to Europe mah!

This probability very panlai spin mah!

Raider asklah....how could embargo on Russia....help Hengyuan & Petron....to make more money leh ??

The impact is remote mah!

Also Msia is not exporting diesel & gasoline to Europe mah!

This probability very panlai spin mah!

Raider asklah....how could embargo on Russia....help Hengyuan & Petron....to make more money leh ??

The impact is remote mah!

Also Msia is not exporting diesel & gasoline to Europe mah!

This probability very panlai spin mah!

Forget it lah!
Netx is a mistake mah!

Everyone make mistake loh!
But not TSH mah!
Below Rm 1.07 is a good investment mah!


Posted by Shootup > 2 hours ago | Report Abuse

mr calvin, pls update netx, new comments there

netx in new lows, hope u can follow up and help ur fans

Forget it lah!
Netx is a mistake mah!

Everyone make mistake loh!
But not TSH mah!
Below Rm 1.07 is a good investment mah!


Posted by Shootup > 2 hours ago | Report Abuse

mr calvin, pls update netx, new comments there

netx in new lows, hope u can follow up and help ur fans

Yes Hengyuan can hedge....but they should do it modestly like Petron, even after netting the hedging losses, net effect is still positive profit for Petron...this is what a hedging should be...smoothing the profit every qtr loh

But what Hengyuan is doing is big gambling & siphoning money loh!

Lu tau boh ?

Posted by Sslee > 6 minutes ago | Report Abuse

MoneyMakers Only probability/sslee think HY hedging always perfect/profitable
Dunno whether they blind or what - never see HY soo many prev QR got losses

MM can you read english?
If you can that don't put your word into my mouth and read again and again :

What I say is to be objective and look into Q2 result.
Page 8
The profit/(loss) before taxation is arrived at after crediting)/charging
Fair value loss on derivative financial instruments:
Q2: RM 438,758,000. Cumulative RM 870,964,000
Page 5
Operating profit before changes in working capital RM 939,171,000

So in H1 the realised fair value loss on derivative is RM 870,964,000 and HRC still able to make an operating profit before changes in working capital RM 939,171,000.

Hence should you be very afraid of the unrealised losses RM1,079.600,000 marked to market (as on 31/06/22 when the crack spread was at the peak) outstanding derivatives till proclaims that HRC will have cash flow problems and going to bankrupt like Serba or AAX or CapitalA.

In other word if HRC do not do hedged by now H1 sale volume of about 21 million barrels should have gave them a super fat profit before tax of RM RM 870,964,000 + RM 982,535,000
Or a profit before tax of about USD 20 per barrel.

Yes Hengyuan can hedge....but they should do it modestly like Petron, even after netting the hedging losses, net effect is still positive profit for Petron...this is what a hedging should be...smoothing the profit every qtr loh

But what Hengyuan is doing is big gambling & siphoning money loh!

Lu tau boh ?

Posted by Sslee > 6 minutes ago | Report Abuse

MoneyMakers Only probability/sslee think HY hedging always perfect/profitable
Dunno whether they blind or what - never see HY soo many prev QR got losses

MM can you read english?
If you can that don't put your word into my mouth and read again and again :

What I say is to be objective and look into Q2 result.
Page 8
The profit/(loss) before taxation is arrived at after crediting)/charging
Fair value loss on derivative financial instruments:
Q2: RM 438,758,000. Cumulative RM 870,964,000
Page 5
Operating profit before changes in working capital RM 939,171,000

So in H1 the realised fair value loss on derivative is RM 870,964,000 and HRC still able to make an operating profit before changes in working capital RM 939,171,000.

Hence should you be very afraid of the unrealised losses RM1,079.600,000 marked to market (as on 31/06/22 when the crack spread was at the peak) outstanding derivatives till proclaims that HRC will have cash flow problems and going to bankrupt like Serba or AAX or CapitalA.

In other word if HRC do not do hedged by now H1 sale volume of about 21 million barrels should have gave them a super fat profit before tax of RM RM 870,964,000 + RM 982,535,000
Or a profit before tax of about USD 20 per barrel.

This Philip way of training is not practical & effective, it emphasis talk more than do loh!

Listen to Raider lah!
Raider came from a B40 background & manage to come up & successful mah!

The formula is easy & Here is the idea loh!

1. U need to instil the desire to be successful, self confidence, determination and willing to work hard, in order to be successful. That means willing to work on 3 to 4 type of income revenue at one time loh!
Like working in a factory, Grab driver, Amway, zhulian & insurance distributors and say pasar malam or pasar pagi vendors during weekends n nite loh!

2. After u have earn reasonable good monies, u must not simply spend, u need save up & build a war chest of capital to enhance your wealth further loh!
Avoid need of buying expensive cars, motorcycles, lavish brands or splashing money or spending on kenduris loh!
3. For The Bumiputra, the best avenue for your savings & growth are Amanah Saham Bhd....this type of investment guarantee your capital from losses & give growth n dividend exceeding 8% pa for u for doing nothing loh!
Next u should consider low cost houses in good location that can give u rental yield of exceeding 8% pa loh! U may buy a few units of low cost units as long the rental yield far exceed your loan repayment which has interest rates of 4.5% pa loh!
In addition, should u have more capital & cash build up....pls do consider farmland loh....including cheap bumi & malay reserve land....buy it & rent it to the chinese & indians who are more efficient vegetable farmers & make sure get yield of 8% to 10% pa loh!
4. Be an Enterpreneur; By now u are famous among B40....among your list of contacts & friends....u should know which are the makciks can make best nasi lemak, nyonya kueh, Goreng kuahtiau, popiah, satays and tongyam....U setup a kedai kopi after u have secured all those successful makcik who are willing to join u loh! U can set aside 30% to 40% shares all these makciks to be your business partners loh! Setting a successful traditional coffee shop can help u to make rm 20k a month but the cost of this setup is less than Rm 150k per unit loh!
Make a point of expanding 1 coffee shop per year & u can draw on your business partner of makcik to manage these shops mah!
4. Integrate your amway & zhulian distributorships, Grab logistic business into your current chain of kedai kopi loh! But Chinese u set up illegal 4 ekor into your kopi chain loh!

By now u r already a millionaire....u can just scale up & keep expanding loh!

Raider intention is noble as describe below loh!
And it is back up by fact & figure mah!

The reasons why Raider need to uncovered the hidden truth about hengyuan bcos;

1. Innocent party like Ahfah son (Now gainfully employ as Technology System Analyst} has started to be interested of Hengyuan bcos of the huge EPS of Rm 2.22 reported in Q2 mah!
Just imagine a learned person like Ahfah son started to be greedy & interested n willing to accept in gambling on bad corporate governance stock like Hengyuan, what about the rest of laymen down the road leh ?
Alot of damage to their financial health will be coming to these people loh!

2. Also Raider trying hard to save Sifu SSLEE from damaging his prestigious reputation by acting as a fool in promoting Hengyuan loh....!
U see raider has soft spot for SSLEE, he is really kind gentleman & he is trying to do great services to the Society loh!
However Hengyuan which its magic reporting & highly complicated manipulative high finance is very complicated for Sifu SSLEE (general financial knowledge) to comprehend, in addition he has been mislead by people like Probability with his droves of fake duplicated IDS followers & supporters painting a fine picture on HRC, despite its core are roting loh!

It is a relieve for General Raider to hear Sifu SSLEE has a very small exposure on Hengyuan, thus Raider suggest he completely dispose it & switch quickly to Petron for better night sleep loh!

osted by MoneyMakers > 2 minutes ago | Report Abuse

S’raider u stuck high HY at what price during 2018 collapse (rm19-rm3)??

See u got crazy ptsd @ forever hate HY

Ya but Hengyuan already make a margin call payout of Rm 1,542 million to cover for its, huge derivative losses mah!

Lu tau boh ?

Pls Read very carefully mah!

Why General Raider says Sifu Sslee analysis on Hengyuan is dangerous flawed ?

1. Looking at the balance sheet HRC hedging losses as at 30-6-2022 amounted to rm Rm 1,329M of this sum of losses Rm 1189m or 90% are contributed by just 6 mths of operation result for the latest 30-6-2022 Financial result loh!

2. HRC derivative outstanding liabilities todate is Rm 1,781M whereas is derivative assets is Rm 261m, meaning net derivative negative exposure is Rm 1,520M.....meaning the counter party should be able received payment of Rm 1,520M from Hengyuan, it is just like your share margin losses loh!

3. Then why counterparty did not ask for margin call , since HRC has a huge negative equity of Rm 1520M leh ? Yes the counter party did ask for margin top up and hengyuan already paid, this can be seen from other receivable & prepayment payout increases by Rm 1,542M for the 6 mths mah!

In otherwords, Hengyuan 6 mths operating cashflow b4 working capital changes should be Rm 939m, after less Rm 1542M derivative top up amounting to negative cashflow of Rm 603M mah!
The route to potential financial collapse of Hengyuan, are written all there in the Derivative mah!

Do not get into this trap loh! Despite Hengyuan generated record positive operation cash flow of Rm 939m, its negative cashflow from derivative losses is rm 1,542m ( which already payout as other prepayment} thus HRC negative cashflow is Rm 603M.

Most importantly, Hengyuan borrowing & derivative liabilities had ballooned to Rm 3285M from just Rm 705m as at 31-12-2021 which a staggering increase of Rm 2580M, just within 6 mths and of this sum Rm 1542M is due to margin top up of derivative losses in the form of prepayment mah!

Lu tau boh ? The rot of Hengyuan has intensified alot loh!
Be very careful mah!

Posted by Sslee > 52 seconds ago | Report Abuse


The Q2 unrealised gain/loss on derivaties is marked to market on financial closing date. For Q2 is on 30/06/2022

It matter alot if u invested in Petron, but not when u invested in Kon Hengyuan bcos they will siphon your money anyhow, whether crack spread are high or low loh!

In other words....do not buy kon companies loh!

Posted by UlarSawa > 1 minute ago | Report Abuse

Crackspread up n down. Does it matter. Company earned but loss on hedging. Also loss mah. Haiyoh. Correct?


Sslee

Just go and look up Q2 is for quarter end 30/06/2022.
What is crack spread at that time?

Raider has done the Best to SAVE SSLEE SOUL loh!

But....anyhow....Sifu Sslee is very stubborn....only want lose money then can learn his lesson, like the case of Xinguan loh!.

Posted by Sslee > 4 seconds ago | Report Abuse

Ahfah son (Now gainfully employ as Technology System Analyst}

I can only wish if only Ahfan son taking up accountant and now as auditor will be able to teach stockraider how to read financial report and the different standard applied rather than now stockraider reading the figures and interpret as facts with his fancy full story.

It matter alot if u invested in Petron, but not when u invested in Kon Hengyuan bcos they will siphon your money anyhow, whether crack spread are high or low loh!

In other words....do not buy kon companies loh!

Posted by UlarSawa > 1 minute ago | Report Abuse

Crackspread up n down. Does it matter. Company earned but loss on hedging. Also loss mah. Haiyoh. Correct?


Sslee

Just go and look up Q2 is for quarter end 30/06/2022.
What is crack spread at that time?

The reasons why Raider need to uncovered the hidden truth about hengyuan bcos;

1. Innocent party like Ahfah son (Now gainfully employ as Technology System Analyst} has started to be interested of Hengyuan bcos of the huge EPS of Rm 2.22 reported in Q2 mah!
Just imagine a learned person like Ahfah son started to be greedy & interested n willing to accept in gambling on bad corporate governance stock like Hengyuan, what about the rest of laymen down the road leh ?
Alot of damage to their financial health will be coming to these people loh!

2. Also Raider trying hard to save Sifu SSLEE from damaging his prestigious reputation by acting as a fool in promoting Hengyuan loh....!
U see raider has soft spot for SSLEE, he is really kind gentleman & he is trying to do great services to the Society loh!
However Hengyuan which its magic reporting & highly complicated manipulative high finance is very complicated for Sifu SSLEE (general financial knowledge) to comprehend, in addition he has been mislead by people like Probability with his droves of fake duplicated IDS followers & supporters painting a fine picture on HRC, despite its core are roting loh!

It is a relieve for General Raider to hear Sifu SSLEE has a very small exposure on Hengyuan, thus Raider suggest he completely dispose it & switch quickly to Petron for better night sleep loh!

U can do the same checking on Petron mah!

Petron is prudently financial manage loh!

The reasons why Raider need to uncovered the hidden truth about hengyuan bcos;

1. Innocent party like Ahfah son (Now gainfully employ as Technology System Analyst} has started to be interested of Hengyuan bcos of the huge EPS of Rm 2.22 reported in Q2 mah!
Just imagine a learned person like Ahfah son started to be greedy & interested n willing to accept in gambling on bad corporate governance stock like Hengyuan, what about the rest of laymen down the road leh ?
Alot of damage to their financial health will be coming to these people loh!

2. Also Raider trying hard to save Sifu SSLEE from damaging his prestigious reputation by acting as a fool in promoting Hengyuan loh....!
U see raider has soft spot for SSLEE, he is really kind gentleman & he is trying to do great services to the Society loh!
However Hengyuan which its magic reporting & highly complicated manipulative high finance is very complicated for Sifu SSLEE (general financial knowledge) to comprehend, in addition he has been mislead by people like Probability with his droves of fake duplicated IDS followers & supporters painting a fine picture on HRC, despite its core are roting loh!

It is a relieve for General Raider to hear Sifu SSLEE has a very small exposure on Hengyuan, thus Raider suggest he completely dispose it & switch quickly to Petron for better night sleep loh!

Vinc3362,

Already explain mah!

Pls read carefully below loh;

Posted by stockraider > 2 hours ago | Report Abuse

Why General Raider says Sifu Sslee analysis on Hengyuan is dangerous flawed ?

1. Looking at the balance sheet HRC hedging losses as at 30-6-2022 amounted to rm Rm 1,329M of this sum of losses Rm 1189m or 90% are contributed by just 6 mths of operation result for the latest 30-6-2022 Financial result loh!

2. HRC derivative outstanding liabilities todate is Rm 1,781M whereas is derivative assets is Rm 261m, meaning net derivative negative exposure is Rm 1,520M.....meaning the counter party should be able received payment of Rm 1,520M from Hengyuan, it is just like your share margin losses loh!

3. Then why counterparty did not ask for margin call , since HRC has a huge negative equity of Rm 1520M leh ? Yes the counter party did ask for margin top up and hengyuan already paid, this can be seen from other receivable & prepayment payout increases by Rm 1,542M for the 6 mths mah!

In otherwords, Hengyuan 6 mths operating cashflow b4 working capital changes should be Rm 939m, after less Rm 1542M derivative top up amounting to negative cashflow of Rm 603M mah!

The route to potential financial collapse of Hengyuan, are written all there in the Derivative mah!

Do not get into this trap loh! Despite Hengyuan generated record positive operation cash flow of Rm 939m, its negative cashflow from derivative losses is rm 1,542m ( which already payout as other prepayment} thus HRC negative cashflow is Rm 603M.

Most importantly, Hengyuan borrowing & derivative liabilities had ballooned to Rm 3285M from just Rm 705m as at 31-12-2021 which a staggering increase of Rm 2580M, just within 6 mths and of this sum Rm 1542M is due to margin top up of derivative losses in the form of prepayment mah!

Lu tau boh ? The rot of Hengyuan has intensified alot loh!
Be very careful mah!

The reasons why Raider need to uncovered the hidden truth about hengyuan bcos;

1. Innocent party like Ahfah son (Now gainfully employ as Technology System Analyst} has started to be interested of Hengyuan bcos of the huge EPS of Rm 2.22 reported in Q2 mah!
Just imagine a learned person like Ahfah son started to be greedy & interested n willing to accept in gambling on bad corporate governance stock like Hengyuan, what about the rest of laymen down the road leh ?
Alot of damage to their financial health will be coming to these people loh!

2. Also Raider trying hard to save Sifu SSLEE from damaging his prestigious reputation by acting as a fool in promoting Hengyuan loh....!
U see raider has soft spot for SSLEE, he is really kind gentleman & he is trying to do great services to the Society loh!
However Hengyuan which its magic reporting & highly complicated manipulative high finance is very complicated for Sifu SSLEE (general financial knowledge) to comprehend, in addition he has been mislead by people like Probability with his droves of fake duplicated IDS followers & supporters painting a fine picture on HRC, despite its core are roting loh!

It is a relieve for General Raider to hear Sifu SSLEE has a very small exposure on Hengyuan, thus Raider suggest he completely dispose it & switch quickly to Petron for better night sleep loh!

The reasons why Raider need to uncovered the hidden truth about hengyuan bcos;

1. Innocent party like Ahfah son (Now gainfully employ as Technology System Analyst} has started to be interested of Hengyuan bcos of the huge EPS of Rm 2.22 reported in Q2 mah!
Just imagine a learned person like Ahfah son started to be greedy & interested n willing to accept in gambling on bad corporate governance stock like Hengyuan, what about the rest of laymen down the road leh ?
Alot of damage to their financial health will be coming to these people loh!

2. Also Raider trying hard to save Sifu SSLEE from damaging his prestigious reputation by acting as a fool in promoting Hengyuan loh....!
U see raider has soft spot for SSLEE, he is really kind gentleman & he is trying to do great services to the Society loh!
However Hengyuan which its magic reporting & highly complicated manipulative high finance is very complicated for Sifu SSLEE (general financial knowledge) to comprehend, in addition he has been mislead by people like Probability with his droves of fake duplicated IDS followers & supporters painting a fine picture on HRC, despite its core are roting loh!

It is a relieve for General Raider to hear Sifu SSLEE has a very small exposure on Hengyuan, thus Raider suggest he completely dispose it & switch quickly to Petron for better night sleep loh!

All these Hengyuan info Raider presented is supported by fact & figures mah!

U can check it for yourself, since Raider had given direction where to Check Mah!

Lu tau boh ?

Posted by Johnzhang > 37 seconds ago | Report Abuse

Is the non stop malicious attack on HY done in good faith? The modus operandi tell you NO!

Since June 2022, a group of Agents coordinated malicious attacks on HY with ulterior motives . The Agents have been spamming days and nights with all sorts of disinformation, half baked stories and baseless assumptions , effectively driving good stock to far lower that its fair value.

The Agents are capitalizing on the fragile market sentiment and serious lack of market liquidity to drive away whatever little buying interest and at tge same time caused fearful and weaker retailers to dump their shares at huge discounts. The modus operandi of the agents is very obvious. If you careful study the trade pattern and observe the activity within the day you shall see the trade manipulation

Are these Agents angels to safeguard you interest ? Think carefully, They are instead preying on unsuspecting retailers.

The Agents and the people behind them are now collecting cheap shares from unwary retailers .

Most importantly just within 6 mths Rm 1542m is payout due to margin call in respect of derivative losses mah!

Lu tau boh ?

U all need to understand this loh!

Is such a derivative losses for Hengyuan is really true or is it a device to siphon money via the derivative leh ?

Always REMEMBER THIS LOH!

Petron reported a positive position after flowing thru its hedging losses to the P&L top line, this should be what hedging operation should be all about by smoothing out its profitability but not in hengyuan case with losses run into billions ?

But hengyuan do not loh! It keep the hedging loss as no impact to EPS loh!

If we standardised the treatment like Petron....Hengyuan will be reporting huge losses loh!

Rightfully Hedging losses should flow thru P&L mah!

Thus Hengyuan performance appear very bad compare to Petron loh!

The most danger question is the hedging instrument is completely unrelated to business hedging but it is a device instrument to siphon money from hengyuan loh!

The red flags can be seen by;

1. Many qtr of hedging losses loh!
2. Very suspicious long dated of the hedging instrument loh!
3. Extremely large hedging value has been contracted mah!
4. Extremely Huge hedging losses incurred todate loh!

If the above suspicion is proven true.....then hengyuan will eventually be worthless just like Serba loh!

Surely u must rely on fact & figures eventually lah, U cannot always rely on "Magic" all the time mah!

Correct ??

Posted by UlarSawa > 33 seconds ago | Report Abuse

Haiyoh facts n figures again. Wei. Judi saham end result want to win is more important leh. Facts n Figures are secondary leh. Haiyoh. Correct?

U can do the same checking on Petron mah!

Petron is prudently financial manage loh!

I think the Rm 5b sukuk notes will be likely be rejected of the financier analyse Hengyuan Deeper loh!

Since Maybank latest had already provided big increases in Provision for Loan Bad debts, they will be very cautious in assessing HENGYUAN financial position loh!

With this type of weakness....the future demise of Hengyuan will come sooner rather than later mah!

All these Hengyuan info Raider presented is supported by fact & figures mah!

U can check it for yourself, since Raider had given direction where to Check Mah!

Lu tau boh ?

All these Hengyuan info Raider presented is supported by fact & figures mah!

U can check it for yourself, since Raider had given direction where to Check Mah!

Lu tau boh ?

All these Hengyuan info Raider presented is supported by fact & figures mah!

U can check it for yourself, since Raider had given direction where to Check Mah!

Lu tau boh ?

All these info Raider presented is supported by fact & figures mah!

U can check it for yourself, since Raider had given direction where to Check Mah!

Lu tau boh ?

Why General Raider says Sifu Sslee analysis on Hengyuan is dangerous flawed ?

1. Looking at the balance sheet HRC hedging losses as at 30-6-2022 amounted to rm Rm 1,329M of this sum of losses Rm 1189m or 90% are contributed by just 6 mths of operation result for the latest 30-6-2022 Financial result loh!

2. HRC derivative outstanding liabilities todate is Rm 1,781M whereas is derivative assets is Rm 261m, meaning net derivative negative exposure is Rm 1,520M.....meaning the counter party should be able received payment of Rm 1,520M from Hengyuan, it is just like your share margin losses loh!

3. Then why counterparty did not ask for margin call , since HRC has a huge negative equity of Rm 1520M leh ? Yes the counter party did ask for margin top up and hengyuan already paid, this can be seen from other receivable & prepayment payout increases by Rm 1,542M for the 6 mths mah!

In otherwords, Hengyuan 6 mths operating cashflow b4 working capital changes should be Rm 939m, after less Rm 1542M derivative top up amounting to negative cashflow of Rm 603M mah!

The route to potential financial collapse of Hengyuan, are written all there in the Derivative mah!

Do not get into this trap loh! Despite Hengyuan generated record positive operation cash flow of Rm 939m, its negative cashflow from derivative losses is rm 1,542m ( which already payout as other prepayment} thus HRC negative cashflow is Rm 603M.

Most importantly, Hengyuan borrowing & derivative liabilities had ballooned to Rm 3285M from just Rm 705m as at 31-12-2021 which a staggering increase of Rm 2580M, just within 6 mths and of this sum Rm 1542M is due to margin top up of derivative losses in the form of prepayment mah!

Lu tau boh ? The rot of Hengyuan has intensified alot loh!
Be very careful mah!

Why General Raider says Sifu Sslee analysis on Hengyuan is dangerous flawed ?

1. Looking at the balance sheet HRC hedging losses as at 30-6-2022 amounted to rm Rm 1,329M of this sum of losses Rm 1189m or 90% are contributed by just 6 mths of operation result for the latest 30-6-2022 Financial result loh!

2. HRC derivative outstanding liabilities todate is Rm 1,781M whereas is derivative assets is Rm 261m, meaning net derivative negative exposure is Rm 1,520M.....meaning the counter party should be able received payment of Rm 1,520M from Hengyuan, it is just like your share margin losses loh!

3. Then why counterparty did not ask for margin call , since HRC has a huge negative equity of Rm 1520M leh ? Yes the counter party did ask for margin top up and hengyuan already paid, this can be seen from other receivable & prepayment payout increases by Rm 1,542M for the 6 mths mah!

In otherwords, Hengyuan 6 mths operating cashflow b4 working capital changes should be Rm 939m, after less Rm 1542M derivative top up amounting to negative cashflow of Rm 603M mah!

The route to potential financial collapse of Hengyuan, are written all there in the Derivative mah!

Do not get into this trap loh! Despite Hengyuan generated record positive operation cash flow of Rm 939m, its negative cashflow from derivative losses is rm 1,542m ( which already payout as other prepayment} thus HRC negative cashflow is Rm 603M.

Most importantly, Hengyuan borrowing & derivative liabilities had ballooned to Rm 3285M from just Rm 705m as at 31-12-2021 which a staggering increase of Rm 2580M, just within 6 mths and of this sum Rm 1542M is due to margin top up of derivative losses in the form of prepayment mah!

Lu tau boh ? The rot of Hengyuan has intensified alot loh!
Be very careful mah!

Why General Raider says Sifu Sslee analysis on Hengyuan is dangerous flawed ?

1. Looking at the balance sheet HRC hedging losses as at 30-6-2022 amounted to rm Rm 1,329M of this sum of losses Rm 1189m or 90% are contributed by just 6 mths of operation result for the latest 30-6-2022 Financial result loh!

2. HRC derivative outstanding liabilities todate is Rm 1,781M whereas is derivative assets is Rm 261m, meaning net derivative negative exposure is Rm 1,520M.....meaning the counter party should be able received payment of Rm 1,520M from Hengyuan, it is just like your share margin losses loh!

3. Then why counterparty did not ask for margin call , since HRC has a huge negative equity of Rm 1520M leh ? Yes the counter party did ask for margin top up and hengyuan already paid, this can be seen from other receivable & prepayment payout increases by Rm 1,542M for the 6 mths mah!

In otherwords, Hengyuan 6 mths operating cashflow b4 working capital changes should be Rm 939m, after less Rm 1542M derivative top up amounting to negative cashflow of Rm 603M mah!

The route to potential financial collapse of Hengyuan, are written all there in the Derivative mah!

Do not get into this trap loh! Despite Hengyuan generated record positive operation cash flow of Rm 939m, its negative cashflow from derivative losses is rm 1,542m ( which already payout as other prepayment} thus HRC negative cashflow is Rm 603M.

Most importantly, Hengyuan borrowing & derivative liabilities had ballooned to Rm 3285M from just Rm 705m as at 31-12-2021 which a staggering increase of Rm 2580M, just within 6 mths and of this sum Rm 1542M is due to margin top up of derivative losses in the form of prepayment mah!

Lu tau boh ? The rot of Hengyuan has intensified alot loh!
Be very careful mah!

Why General Raider says Sifu Sslee analysis on Hengyuan is dangerous flawed ?

1. Looking at the balance sheet HRC hedging losses as at 30-6-2022 amounted to rm Rm 1,329M of this sum of losses Rm 1189m or 90% are contributed by just 6 mths of operation result for the latest 30-6-2022 Financial result loh!

2. HRC derivative outstanding liabilities todate is Rm 1,781M whereas is derivative assets is Rm 261m, meaning net derivative negative exposure is Rm 1,520M.....meaning the counter party should be able received payment of Rm 1,520M from Hengyuan, it is just like your share margin losses loh!

3. Then why counterparty did not ask for margin call , since HRC has a huge negative equity of Rm 1520M leh ? Yes the counter party did ask for margin top up and hengyuan already paid, this can be seen from other receivable & prepayment payout increases by Rm 1,542M for the 6 mths mah!

In otherwords, Hengyuan 6 mths operating cashflow b4 working capital changes should be Rm 939m, after less Rm 1542M derivative top up amounting to negative cashflow of Rm 603M mah!

The route to potential financial collapse of Hengyuan, are written all there in the Derivative mah!

Do not get into this trap loh! Despite Hengyuan generated record positive operation cash flow of Rm 939m, its negative cashflow from derivative losses is rm 1,542m ( which already payout as other prepayment} thus HRC negative cashflow is Rm 603M.

Most importantly, Hengyuan borrowing & derivative liabilities had ballooned to Rm 3285M from just Rm 705m as at 31-12-2021 which a staggering increase of Rm 2580M, just within 6 mths and of this sum Rm 1542M is due to margin top up of derivative losses in the form of prepayment mah!

Lu tau boh ? The rot of Hengyuan has intensified alot loh!
Be very careful mah!