Posted by tonytonychopper > 2016-03-01 15:32 | Report Abuse

Funny la...raider.

U seem to suggesting people to use margin, but keep talking about risk and dangerous of using margin, and how to prevent from kena them.

Investor? How many of us here invest a company and hold for 10 years? Even uncle KYY with super heavy bullet only holds for like 1 year and keep buy sell buy sell buy sell.. If I had recently used margin to follow his recommendations which meet all his golden rules (very good companies), I would have started paying a loss repayment plan offered by investment bank.

Correct me on this: I think need to withdraw money from epf and put somewhere else with IB to invest instock market?

Posted by powerup > 2016-03-01 15:53 | Report Abuse

HAVING SAY THE ABOVE, AN INVESTOR NEED TO ON GUARD MORE ON MARGIN COMPARE WITH OWN MONIES.


in other words, want to play, play for real.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2016-03-01 15:57 | Report Abuse

margin this portfolio, sure no margin call one..............Bornoil, AAX, Tguan, VS, KESM, RHB, Scientex

if got margin call, look for me.

Posted by PlsGiveBonus > 2016-03-01 16:05 | Report Abuse

Youngster do not how to manage finance correctly
Even some old generation has problem with finance
No one is perfect to finance
Finance itself is like a mistake
No one can forever make no mistakes

Posted by powerup > 2016-03-01 16:07 | Report Abuse

margin this portfolio, sure no margin call one..............Bornoil, AAX, Tguan, VS, KESM, RHB, Scientex

if got margin call, look for me.


sure no mistake one.

better than EPF, twice better than EPF.

Posted by PlsGiveBonus > 2016-03-01 16:08 | Report Abuse

Small finance is small mistake
Big finance is big mistake
When you play with finance
You play with mistake
The more mistake you did the less mistake you will do later
If your first mistake is big enough to kill you, do you have second chance to make or avoid the mistake?

Posted by PlsGiveBonus > 2016-03-01 16:10 | Report Abuse

If you make small mistake everytime, you learn to manage mistake more carefully, make it small to save yourself from trouble, think about it you only live once

Posted by PlsGiveBonus > 2016-03-01 16:16 | Report Abuse

Everyone hope to make it small
Too bad if you make it small in the stock market
You won't go far, the intermediate fee to the financial system alone is enough to make any of your investment unprofitable, all this financial system want you to make it big so you can faster go to hell and they have one less headcount to feed.

Posted by PlsGiveBonus > 2016-03-01 16:20 | Report Abuse

To make you go to hell faster
They invent credit card, margin loan any leverage to help new generation to make bigger mistake. New generation will need to learn to manage this leverage since they was bornt.

Posted by powerup > 2016-03-01 16:43 | Report Abuse

in a population of a million, there will be some who will become tycoons via the margin account in the stockmarket.


give yourself a chance.

Posted by paperplane2016 > 2016-03-01 22:42 | Report Abuse

It is not conspiracy. It is just tycoon gone through those stresful time, they dun advise normal ppl use margin. Margin can kill u and familly just one day if not managed properly. But it is also reason why they strikr big.

Posted by Icon8888 > 2016-03-01 22:45 | Report Abuse

Your housing loans are different, that is consumption debt, not investment

Posted by bfg9000 > 2016-03-02 10:27 | Report Abuse

I think there is an argument that certain things are better leveraged and some not. I would say things like car and house loans are leverages on things we otherwise cannot buy. And in a low interest rates and benign investment period, with a steady and secure job income, it makes the most sense to use the least cash and leverage to the max - get the biggest margin of financing from your bank

Posted by bfg9000 > 2016-03-02 10:29 | Report Abuse

While in investment itself, certain leveraged instruments - eg long maturity company warrants - are OK for certain counters. Margin in a brokerage account - no, thank you very much. Market goes up slowly and crashes fast.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2016-03-02 11:16 | Report Abuse

RAIDER HAS NOTHING TO AGAINST KC HERE....BUT RAIDER THINK....KC THINKING IS FLAWS HERE...ON THE PREMISE...THE FAILURE OF THE ASPIRING MARGIN TYCOON...IS NOT DUE TO HIS MARGIN....BUT THE ISSUE OF LACK SKILL....TO MAKE THE GRADE LOH..!! JUST LIKE AN OLYMPIC ATHELETE U NEED TO MASTER THE NECESSARY THE INVESTMENT ROBES OF TRADE...B4 U CAN REALLY DO WELL LOH....!!

Me: Let us see which argument on margin finance is flawed, me or yours. You have actually contradicting your own argument with these statements below.

YES RAIDER ASK HOW MANY PEOPLE CAN MASTER A SKILL....B4 HE CAN COMPETE IN OLYMPIC LEH ?
YES RAIDER SAYS W BUFFET....IS THE ALL TIME GOLD MEDALIST IN THE INVESTMENT WORLD LOH...!!

Me: How many Buffetts in this world? How many Olympic gold medalists are there? How many gold medals Malaysia, with a population of more than 30m, has achieved? How many investors in Malaysia have achieved the status of “investment tycoons” using margin finance? How many “Star Investors” are there?

RAIDER SAY YES....W.BUFFET...STARTED INVESTING WHEN HE IS 7 YRS OLD....IN FACT HE HAS GONE THRU ALL THE ROBES OF INVESTMENT LOH.....!!
HE HAS USED MARGIN B4 TOO....WHY HE DISCOURAGE ? BCOS WARREN ADVISE IS FOR THE AVERAGE INVESTOR LOH....!!
HE DO NOT MEAN FOR STAR INVESTOR.....WITH ASPIRING OLYMPIC MEDAL IN MIND....AND MASTER INVESTMENT....TO BE A TYCOON LOH...!!

Me: When did Buffett say “Star investor” should use margin finance? Which statement he made which infer that?

RAIDER SAY ALL THE ABOVE EVENT....KC MENTIONED MARKET CRASH....BUT IN ALL OCASSION IN THE HISTORY OF INVESTMENT....IT ALWAYS COMEBACK AND GO EVEN HIGHER AFTER THE SHAKE UP LOH....!!

Me: Agree with you above. But how many of those who got killed using margin finance such as at the time of 1998 manage to come back?

AGAIN THIS RAIDER DISAGREE LOH....IT ADD VALUE....WHEN YOUR EXPECTED PAYBACK IS HIGH AND THE DOWNSIDE IS LOW LOH....!!
Me: Agree with your statement. But “expected payback” is just an expectation, especially we don’t know when that expectation will be realized, and if there is a big downside when margin finance users are already killed before that expectation is realized.

IT IS COUNTER INTUTIVE LOH....IF U WANT TO AVERAGE JOE....LISTEN TO THE ADVISE OF THE GREAT RELIGION....BUT IF U ASPIRING TO GO FOR IT....U SHOULD REALLY GOLD FOR THE MEDAL....THEN ....LEVERAGE IS AN IMPORTANT TOOL LOH...!!

Me: Investing is not always come with upside. The downside happens as frequent as the upside. Yes, go for the Olympic Gold Medal, everyone of you!

RAIDER SAYS IF U REALLY WANTS TO BE A TYCOONS THAN U BETTER START YOUNG...NOT ALL CAN MAKE IT...U HAVE TO GO THRU HARD AND DIFFICULT PART...LIKE AN OLYMPIC ATHELETE..U NEED MASTER MANY MANY SKILLS B4 SUCCESSFUL LOH....!!

Me: “Not all can make it”. So what is the percentage who make it? How sure you are that any youngster who doesn’t even have the basic investment skill is the only few lucky ones?

Posted by TAH > 2016-03-02 11:47 | Report Abuse

There are no ending in arguing margin trading, both are right, some are aggressive type n some are conservative type. Only that newbies need to improve the financial knowledge & skill before engage to margin trading.

Posted by PlsGiveBonus > 2016-03-02 15:59 | Report Abuse

Yesterday should be enough to punish some overstretched margin player.
They may start serving their margin repayment scheme prepared by their banker

Posted by NOBY > 2016-03-02 16:02 | Report Abuse

Warren Buffett on leverage

"When leverage works, it magnifies your gains. Your spouse thinks you're clever, and your neighbors get envious," explained Buffett in his 2010 shareholder letter. "But leverage is addictive. Once having profited from its wonders, very few people retreat to more conservative practices. And as we all learned in third grade — and some relearned in 2008 — any series of positive numbers, however impressive the numbers may be, evaporates when multiplied by a single zero. History tells us that leverage all too often produces zeroes, even when it is employed by very smart people."

Posted by hooi72 > 2017-04-05 23:55 | Report Abuse

newbie,own experience,learnt one point lesson. margin financing,a tool only.gaining or losing depend on whom that use it. want to use,GOT TO HAVE A VERY HIGH DISCIPLINE. only use 20% to 30% of margin limit only.use to its limit,wait to die la .also have to know own finance power.how long own can TAHAN paying margin interest. when have to cut loss,just do it.if not,die la.

Posted by stockraider > 2017-04-06 00:05 | Report Abuse

Raider earlier do support, the use of margin for investors....bcos raider had use margin quite successfully for many years loh.....!!

But looking....how Kyy and mammy promoted.....their dynamic investment....and how poorly their selection of stocks....raider fear for safety, for those, who use margin follow and....mammy sailang loh...!!

Thus raider, decided....not to support the use of margin anymore loh..!!!

Even raider's own margin.....right now raider no longer using anymore..bcos after close to 10 yrs of mkt run up....time now is de-gear and cutdown borrowing loh....!!

It is better to earn less than be sorry loh...!!

Posted by probability > 2017-04-06 00:11 | Report Abuse

he he..glad to see raider himself waked up to reality..and down to earth now...

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-04-06 00:24 | Report Abuse

I look at PLC Annual Report, fully 90% of CEO of own company also use margin accounts.

left scared of ghost, right scared of devil.....how to be CEO?

Posted by ipomember > 2017-04-06 00:24 | Report Abuse

Leveraging is everywhere, it is even more when comes to property investment. So should we ditch mortgage loan? We are living in a capital market, understand the tools first before you use is the key afterall. In fact the product of share margin financing are getting less riskier than last time in terms of limit given and pledged share limitation. Of course, you will only know if you try to understand more.

Posted by stockraider > 2017-04-06 00:30 | Report Abuse

osted by NOBY > Mar 2, 2016 04:02 PM | Report Abuse

Warren Buffett on leverage

"When leverage works, it magnifies your gains. Your spouse thinks you're clever, and your neighbors get envious," explained Buffett in his 2010 shareholder letter. "But leverage is addictive. Once having profited from its wonders, very few people retreat to more conservative practices. And as we all learned in third grade — and some relearned in 2008 — any series of positive numbers, however impressive the numbers may be, evaporates when multiplied by a single zero. History tells us that leverage all too often produces zeroes, even when it is employed by very smart people."

REMEMBER THE ABOVE W.BUFFET ADVICE LOH.....!!
ONE WRONG MOVE U ARE DEAD .....IF GEARING IS TOO HIGH MAH..!!

AS FOR PROPERTY MARGIN FINANCING....RAIDER ALSO ADVICE U CUTDOWN THE LOAN TOO.....JUST ACCELERATE YOUR LOAN REPAYMENT....WHENEVER U HAVE EXCESS MONIES LOH.....!!

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-04-06 00:55 | Report Abuse

rice can make you fat...don't eat rice la.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-04-06 07:21 | Report Abuse

If you only average up, never average down where got margin call?

If you got good cut loss strategy, where got margin call ?

If you got huge profits and keep buying with unrealised gains, some times, market can suddenly drop causing a margin call. In such cases, margin calls are hardly the end of the world.....it is just an excuse to sell some shares and realise some profits.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-04-06 07:33 | Report Abuse

Negative news sells,
Insurance agents and financial advisers will tell you to save money ( so you can have money to buy their products)
Investment books will tell you to be prudent and conservative...and save money.

Turn on the radio, read the papers, you are surrounded by negative news and people asking you to save money.

If you want to be super investor, you have to beat your own path.......that risk is not to be avoided at all cost. Afetr all, no risk means no gain.


The stock market rewards you for taking on risk and later proven correct. ....that is what it is all about.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-04-06 10:02 | Report Abuse

Risk freaks people out.

look at self proclaimed value investors...Calvin, this raider, KC........risk freaks them out.


but stock market is there to reward investors who assume risk and later proven correct...That is what stock market is all about.


KC.....

if KC is genuine value investor, he will recommend Genting ( Genting is fantastic under valued stock ) instead of recommending small little manufacturing company with a few million revenue per quarter. That is what irritates me.....KC, the self proclaimed value investor is but actually small cap speculator....hang pig head to sell dog meat.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-04-06 12:21 | Report Abuse

risk freaks you out?

kc?

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-04-06 17:47 | Report Abuse

all the so called value investors.....kc, stock raider, calvin.........they all hang pig head to sell dog meat.

Posted by stockraider > 2017-04-06 17:52 | Report Abuse

KYY cannot sleep loh......!!

He bought tonnes of an overvalue counter with poor fundamental using margin loh.....!!

Need to wait 5 yrs....for 1st production of electricity loh...!!

He trying to promote the dog jaks....to many greater fools....but not many fools can follow loh....!!

His side kick....try very hard to assist....but the public already aware pump & dump strategy of kyy loh....!!

So pls do not fall into his trap loh....!!

If u had bought....u better sell ahead of Kyy loh...!!

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-04-06 17:53 | Report Abuse

save your breath...you are not KYY.

Posted by stockraider > 2017-04-06 18:05 | Report Abuse

If it is a good company at least u can push the company to squeeze a little more profit & cashflow loh.....!!
This will help u tie over....when u r stucked...with margin loh..!!

But if u r holding....a lemon stock like jaks with big losses....how much u can squeeze water from hard rock leh ???

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-04-06 18:11 | Report Abuse

kc

you disappoint me.

Applying your fancy formulas on small cap stocks is like a carpenter with wrong tools.

A genuine value investor will recommend Genting with a market cap to EBITA ratio of 5. Apply your fancy formulas to a mature Company like Genting la.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-04-06 18:14 | Report Abuse

can a frog like you understand an eagle, raider?