Posted by assthrow > 2012-09-04 16:49 | Report Abuse

hustle, are you refer to those put warrant in china?

Posted by Hustle > 2012-09-04 16:57 | Report Abuse

Nope in US 1,but that one is issue from the company itself and in M'sia is issue by Ambank.Sounds like the purpose is different,since Ambank have no relationship with JCY at all,if matured and JCY price is lower than strike price.Suppose that Ambank must pay his HA holder certain percentage,but in this case if matured not sure Ambank willing to pay or not or the HA just burn with no purpose like a ponzi listing scheme.

Posted by assthrow > 2012-09-04 17:05 | Report Abuse

ok ok.. make things simple for u............ whoever issue the warrant , the financial engineering behind is the same.... Options pricing model can be used on Warrrant with minimal modification.

all structured warrant (Put or Call) in malaysia, singapore or hongkong are all issued by commercial bank or investment bank.

Issuer will pay according to the formula in the warrant deed.....

Posted by Hustle > 2012-09-04 17:09 | Report Abuse

So means that the strike price for JCY-HA is at 1.22.If JCY price stay at 1.05 until the HA matured.Means that Ambank need to pay the HA holder according to the formula,is that right?

Posted by DUnkin > 2012-09-04 17:11 | Report Abuse

Why suddenly this counter got hope again?

Posted by assthrow > 2012-09-04 17:11 | Report Abuse

yes!!

Posted by Hustle > 2012-09-04 17:14 | Report Abuse

Thanks assthrow for your valuable information

Posted by assthrow > 2012-09-04 17:14 | Report Abuse

actually all issuer in malaysia has 'warrant holder hotline' for you to call to ask whatever u wanna ask or scold them why the liquidity is not provided........eg. 'what the helll why jcy-ha is only a few thousand warrant quoted on bid and ask WHEN YOUR COMPETITOR ISSUED WARRANT e.g.. icy-ce, cf, cg has few hundred thousand on both side bid and ask.. u dare to call yourself a warrant issuer/liquidity provider'

Posted by Hustle > 2012-09-04 17:22 | Report Abuse

Nope assthrow i'm not concern at all regarding whether it is liquid or not,since warrant is not a stock counter,it just an future agreement or derivatives.If you spot the future market is bull,mostly people will buy call.If bear,people will buy put for hedge purpose or buying an insurance to prevent banker blackjack.Mostly warrant is not a gambling counter,it is just an agreement regarding to the mother share future performance.Basically will hold until it matured,not use it for contra trading.

Posted by assthrow > 2012-09-04 17:25 | Report Abuse

" warrants are for short term trading " my average holding period is 2 days

Posted by Hustle > 2012-09-04 17:28 | Report Abuse

Ok guess I got your point.Every village have it's own rules right.Guess that in M,sia we only can trade call warrant and say no to put warrant base on the fact that it is for sell only,thing sold is not returnable.

Posted by klugman > 2012-09-04 17:30 | Report Abuse

the call warrants, I believe are just instruments for the issurers,ie the investment banks to make money from us . At time of issue, the banks paint a glowing picture regardind the future propects of the company to attract punters to buy. However when close to maturity date of the warrants, a very negative picture of the company is given to drive down the price of the mother share so that the holder of the call warrants doesnt make any profit. Thus the issuer pockets all the money obtained from selling the warrants at inflated prices

Posted by KC Loh > 2012-09-04 17:33 | Report Abuse

hence, i never like non-permanent debt instruments :)

Posted by ymj1016 > 2012-09-04 17:37 | Report Abuse

Well explained, Klugman! I was once fell into this trap, now i learned.

Posted by passerby > 2012-09-04 17:52 | Report Abuse

The issuers will pay the warrant holders the money if the structured warrants is in money during expiry. It is their obligation to pay. I received their cheque before, normally takes around 14 ~ 21 days after delisting. Not sure how many other have try to let the CW expired in money.

The low liquidity of HA is partly because short selling is banned in KLSE & partly because not many traders understand how the put warrant instrument work.

Posted by kaka > 2012-09-04 17:54 | Report Abuse

Thank you assthrow and klugman for the enligtening briefing. How i wish this forum can have more people like them vs the imposter

Posted by Mat Cendana > 2012-09-04 18:58 | Report Abuse

It's really a shame that there aren't many put options on BSKL. It's true that many traders don't understand that it's supposed to work the opposite of the call warrants. But gradually I believe more people will be better informed and will find that it's an opportunity to make money by betting against a counter. We'd often get the urge to short a high flying counter because we just know that the rise isn't sustainable. Unfortunately we can't due to the BSKL regulations. The availability of put warrants would have been a tolerable alternative.

Posted by KC Loh > 2012-09-04 19:00 | Report Abuse

we should petition to bring back short-trading to Bursa. It's our right to make money other than the cronies of BN!

Political statement ni....hehehe

Posted by Mat Cendana > 2012-09-04 19:06 | Report Abuse

The CE & CF warrants - they still have some months to go (Feb and March 2013) and I don't know how much longer I can hold myself without buying. When these warrants come down to a certain price (as now), I feel the risks in buying and waiting are justified. One period of positive sentiments and an upswing and a 2 sen rise is more than possible. I'll have to build up the courage to buy.

Posted by KC Loh > 2012-09-04 19:07 | Report Abuse

need to send the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders to MC! LOL

Posted by SJSOON > 2012-09-04 19:15 | Report Abuse

Screening through the quarterly report, it seems that the company has a strong fundamental which can be referred to its improvement in profits relative to last year. Why have the stock been decreasing in price for days? Anyone can share with me?

Posted by Mat Cendana > 2012-09-04 19:49 | Report Abuse

Investors'/Traders' Sentiment and Perception - these are a lot more important than facts and figures, and also financial reports. We have seen how the prices of proven and confirmed deadbeat companies going up... all because of investors *feeling* the price will go up in the future and nothing else. It doesn't matter what all the analysts in the world with their financial sheets and charts say.

Logically, JCY's price shouldn't have come down this much. After all, it actually reported *profits* in the last quarter, not losses! If this is a football match and half-time (after two quarters), JCY is leading 4-1. But since it had scored 3 goals earlier on, the one goal scored later in the first half is seen as "bad".

This is a counter that's very popular with traders. They had driven it to its heights earlier on but the same traders are now doing the opposite. Can't blame them for the fear factor is very powerful. At present, the sentiment is very jittery - when it goes up, people tend to sell and take small profits because they fear these might slip away. 1.00 is a critical psychological floor and support - if it goes through it, we don't know how much lower it would go. If it stands firm, then I just might get my 2 sen from the warrants (which I haven't bought yet).

Posted by Mat Cendana > 2012-09-04 21:03 | Report Abuse

KC Loh, sometimes it pays to be fearful. Yesterday afternoon, I had almost bought the -CF when it was at 0.07 (Seller's Price). But I was hesitant and didn't click on "Buy". Then someone snatched it and it went to 0.075. Annoyed by this, I decided to wait instead of putting in the order and was busy with something else.

That turned out to be fortunate because it went down to 0.065 later on. And today, it went down further, closing at 0.055. Maybe I should just buy first thing tomorrow morning since I'll be getting it at a significantly cheaper price (percentage-wise) than the 0.07 I had wanted to pay for yesterday.

Posted by KC Loh > 2012-09-04 21:09 | Report Abuse

no arguments there! you win some, you lose some! :)

Posted by Hustle > 2012-09-04 21:36 | Report Abuse

HI Mat if base on the current trend,the HA still have opportunity, but not sure hows is the calculation work after expired.If in logical price, the HA suppose to be 0.2 above already,but clearly it shift down with the mother like call warrant.Not really sure BURSA understand what is call & put warrant work.By the way I cannot find any explanation regarding to HA after expired,it just show the conversion ratio.The important fact if Ambank play dunno after expired, investor will become retard player with contribute Ambank lots of money at HA offer price start at 0.15.

Posted by assthrow > 2012-09-04 21:52 | Report Abuse

http://www.amwarrants.com/wrp/main/termSheet/download.jsp?type=ts&id=400

Posted by assthrow > 2012-09-04 21:52 | Report Abuse

speculator also need to spoon-fed nowadays.......... :)

Posted by Hustle > 2012-09-04 21:55 | Report Abuse

Thanks assthrow for the calculation

Posted by kaka > 2012-09-04 22:23 | Report Abuse

assthrow, that's why some smart guy come out with a slogan "sharing is caring" LOL

Posted by assthrow > 2012-09-04 22:29 | Report Abuse

welcome!

Posted by passerby > 2012-09-04 23:07 | Report Abuse

Pak MC: If you want to try your intention, try it in smaller size. Come back & share with us your successful rate later. I think most of us want to know the end result.

The "driver" to the current underlying share doesn't sound strong enough now in my opinion - not enough umph .

Furthermore, if you looks at the total volume traded for the mother share vs the total CWs, the volume of CWs traded out numbered the volume traded for mother share - not a good sign, not much people going after the underling share.

Avoid tense competition. Structured warrants obeys supply & demand law quite well, avoiding competition is one of the top priority unless the underlying can perform extra-ordinary ( with strong catalyst or strong umph ! )

There are still a lot parameters you might need to consider when picking ur SW.

Hustle : The formula to calculate the HA can be found here :http://www.amwarrants.com/wrp/main/calculator/calculator.jsp. It is at premium currently not discount at the moment. Your price for HA 0.2 & above might not be justified in my opinion unless you are trying to maintain certain % of premium.

assthrow: thumb up for you

In all these year when I trade SWs, I just got this feeling that my screen is being monitored by the IBs !! I don't know whether you guys got the same feeling or not ?

Posted by Mat Cendana > 2012-09-04 23:14 | Report Abuse

passerby, one of the reasons why I was/am hesitant with JCY is because I remember very well what you had said about warrants in one post a few weeks ago. You mentioned about momentum, and I've seen (and benefited) from this. And I'd take my profits and run after 1 sen or even 0.05 rather than hope for more because things can quickly change.

Your advice about buying smaller lots is sound. At current prices and with a reasonable timeframe left for the mentioned warrants, I feel it's worth a risk. But will have to be careful so as not to hurt myself too much should JCY continue to slide right until the expiry date rather than see an upswing. But it remains to be seen whether I will actually have the guts to buy tomorrow or thereabouts.

Posted by assthrow > 2012-09-04 23:32 | Report Abuse

passerby, u mean IB monitor your screen or monitor the SW ??

Posted by passerby > 2012-09-04 23:36 | Report Abuse

Yup, I got the feeling SWs in my holding is being monitored / tracks by the IBs. Do you got the same feeling?

Posted by assthrow > 2012-09-04 23:40 | Report Abuse

what make u feel being monitored?? the Sw price react fast to undelying movement?

Posted by passerby > 2012-09-04 23:48 | Report Abuse

don't know how to put that feeling in words lol. definitely not as your description

Posted by passerby > 2012-09-04 23:52 | Report Abuse

Pak MC: Yup, there is no momentum now & the competition is very tense also in my opinion. If competition is tense, you might not be able to run when there is 1 sen or 0.05sen paper gain. You still need to follow the rules to queue & you'll be queuing with all those thinking alike - run after 1 sen or 0.05sen gain. Furthermore, your potential buyers might just walk away & buy the CWs from next door (other issuers) with so many options around. Anyway, never try never know, all the best Pak.

Posted by assthrow > 2012-09-04 23:54 | Report Abuse

i dun have that feeling wor.........

i just feel their market making skills are fall below their counter-part in hk


ok....issuer will know how many issued and how many public bought in open market. and they know which broking firm u bought thru........

Posted by KC Loh > 2012-09-05 09:11 | Report Abuse

down... down.... :)

Posted by KC Loh > 2012-09-05 09:12 | Report Abuse

opportunity coming! :)

Posted by waily > 2012-09-05 09:25 | Report Abuse

what is the best price to enter?

Posted by ponton > 2012-09-05 09:27 | Report Abuse

why today price keep dropping?

Posted by Jjtrader > 2012-09-05 09:28 | Report Abuse

Oh NO....... JCY drop below RM 1.00.

Posted by KC Loh > 2012-09-05 09:30 | Report Abuse

welcome home penny stock! hahaha.... buying opportunity!

Posted by DUnkin > 2012-09-05 09:31 | Report Abuse

=_="'....

Posted by DUnkin > 2012-09-05 09:32 | Report Abuse

what happen to this counter...bleeding

Posted by Eden Thean > 2012-09-05 09:33 | Report Abuse

what is buying price kc loh?

Posted by Jjtrader > 2012-09-05 09:33 | Report Abuse

Today JCY being intentionally pressed down by IBs, how low can it drop ?

Posted by DUnkin > 2012-09-05 09:33 | Report Abuse

why press down?

Posted by KC Loh > 2012-09-05 09:34 | Report Abuse

killing the warrants! :)