CharlesT

All my very valuable expensive "trollings" are well documented in Philip's thread.

23 hours ago

CharlesT

This is what Philip gave me in retun to my valuable "trollings"

Fyi I learn far more from ss lee in his mistakes than I do from your trolling. So wondering who is more beneficial to society? Fyi selling early on top glove and buying early on harta I still made huge earnings on both which is better than those who never invest at all but like to troll.

Guess what, sslee still made money on his area of competence in palm oil stocks which is key. Learn new things every day instead of trolling maybe you will finally get somewhere in life Charles.

23 hours ago

Sslee

Posted by CharlesT > Jan 21, 2025 8:58 AM | Report Abuse
My "trolling" is very expensive....lol

Agreed with CharlesT “Honesty is a very expensive gift, Don't expect it from cheap people.” ...

Good advice does not come cheap.

23 hours ago

CharlesT

It's FOC.

But it could be very expensive too....lol

23 hours ago

CharlesT

Philip knows it well

23 hours ago

musangfoxking

jjohnchewing jaks 0.32 n0w 0.13! lost his bearing ...come here to talk kok!

22 hours ago

jjohnchew

Hoho as said after deducted Total Loans n borrowings from the latest 4 FPSO Loans .. Anna Nery , Maria , Atlanta, Agogo .. there is Balance Loans b/f RM 3.75 billion… minus India Renewables Loans RM 1.0 billion… balance Loans b/f RM 2.75 billion is for What / segment ??? Seems not profitable le ???

21 hours ago

Vdhawan

Yinson's FPSO unit to allocate up to US$6 bil in capex . Which companies will get Yinson's projects? 🙂

https://theedgemalaysia.com/node/741764

20 hours ago

jjohnchew

Hoho the FSO is :

Yinson JV to build new FSO vessel for charter by Murphy Oil unit in Vietnam
By Adam Aziz / theedgemalaysia.com
02 Dec 2024, 01:40 pm

Yinson Holdings Bhd’49%-owned joint venture with PetroVietnam Technical Service Corp (PTSC) has executed a provision, charter, operation and maintenance contract with a unit of Murphy Oil Corp, for a floating, storage and offloading (FSO) vessel in Vietnam.

The 500,000 barrels of oil equivalent capacity FSO, to be built for operations from 4Q2026, will be chartered for a firm period of 10 years, Yinson said. 

The contract comes with options to extend for up to five years, it said. In total, the contract has a value of up to US$416 million, it added. 

FSO PTSC Bien2 Sov Vietnam 0.1
( First Oil 2013 )


—-

Yinson Production has a fleet of 10 vessels, eight of which are operating. One FPSO — floating production, storage and offloading — will come on stream later this year, while an FSO — floating, storage and offloading — will join towards the end of 2026, Wenker said. The fleet could grow to 13 vessels in the next three years, he said.

20 hours ago

jjohnchew

Hoho JAKS is diversified into Power Generator industry ( COD on January 2021 ) … n Renewable Solar electricity ( LSS4 50 MW in Penang is COD on August 2023 and is 100 % financing, CGPP 30 MW is scheduled COD by end 2025 … )

Like LSS5 2000 MW EPCC RM 7.2 billion the return of investment is Slow with Single low digit IRR …JAKS opt for EPC construction contracts from the Winners…

19 hours ago

jjohnchew

Hoho btw CGPP Solar RE winners with Better IRR as they can choose their Offtaker/ customer.. not only TNB .. or cross border but use TNB Power Grid as TPA …

TNB has firm budget of RM 90 billion over 6 years until 2030 to upgrade power grid system n structure..

19 hours ago

jjohnchew

Hoho recalled someone posted Yinson Major is also ard 20 % …

Is all in Pledge Accounts le … if No SBB soon .. will kena Margin Call ????

18 hours ago

Philip ( buy what you understand)

This is beneath even you. make up stories until like this for what reason?

>>>>>
jjohnchew

Hoho recalled someone posted Yinson Major is also ard 20 % …

Is all in Pledge Accounts le … if No SBB soon .. will kena Margin Call ????

18 hours ago

MrFox

jjohnchew@@
better sell jaks, then u wwill be less bodoh!

18 hours ago

jjohnchew

Hoho so fast le .. SBB hit 9.185 % as at 20/1/2025 .. if hit 10 % .. what Shl be happening.. another hidden risks …

17 hours ago

MrFox

hoho jjohnchew has lost his sense of direction because of the big loss in jaks! u better use a compass!!
whispering words of wisdom!!!

17 hours ago

apple4ver

One of the investment thesis in Yinson is that it is one of the beneficiary of global interest rate decline. With the major capex behind and consistent cash flow moving forward, it should be able to refinance its outstanding loans at a much lower rate. However, Yinson has basically locked-in the rate with RCPS paying 12.95%-14.95%. It would be imprudent for Yinson to justify the rate by comparing it with FPSO mezzanie financing in 2023 during which the rate peaked. Also, Yinson is now re-exposed to risks related to securing new FPSO projects and construction executions. An investor should fervently hope Yinson would not take-on too risky projects in search of higher IRR.

Some back of the paper calculation

Total amount allocated for new FPSO = $784.5m
At 30%/70% equity/debt ratio, new project value = $2,600m ($1.3b per project)
(Number of FPSO limited to 2 due to redemption clause)

Total undiscounted cash flow pa* (assume $180m per $1b cost) = $468m
Operating cash flow, assuming operating margin of 50% = $234m
(Ignore any additional income from $80m new energy projects)

Dividend paid on US$1b RCPS = $139.5m
Additional interest on project loans ($1.8b @9%) = $162m
Total dividend + interest expenses = $301.5m

Net operating cash flow less dividend+interest expenses = -$67.5m

There are plenty of assumption used, so expect a high range of possible outcome. But even then it is clear the project margin is very very tight. All above exclude potential depreciation expenses of $173m (15 years, straight line method). And it is super expensive to spend 14.95% RCPS on new energy project ($80m) or buyback/dividend ($30)or even working capital ($70m).

At RM21.4b in total loans (inclusive perpetual securities), it is RM214m additional income per 1% reduction in interest rate. Paying down another RM1-2b in debt (7% average interest rate) per year will give additional RM100m in profit. That's the benefit of simply doing nothing.

16 hours ago

Philip ( buy what you understand)

Apple4ever have you read the salient details of the 1.5b rcps offer?

Funds are accepting cash and also in kind,in preparation for IPO.
The Option A Cash Distribution Rate shall mean:

(i) prior to Target Exit Date, at a rate equal to 12.95% per annum;

(ii) on or after the Target Exit Date up to the date immediately prior to the
seventh anniversary of the First Tranche Closing date, a rate equal to
13.95% per annum;
(iii) on or after the date falling on the seventh anniversary of the First Tranche
Closing date, at a rate equal to 14.95% per annum;
in each case subject to this provision herein provided and provided that for such
time as YPOHL is subject to any applicable default event pursuant to the terms of
any written agreement between YPOHL and its shareholders, and the RCPS
holders which remains unremedied, the Option A Cash Distribution Rate shall
increase by 2.0% per annum with effect from the date on which such event
occurred until such time as the default event is remedied to the reasonable
satisfaction of the RCPS holders.
The Option B Cash Distribution Rate shall mean:
(i) prior to Target Exit Date, at a rate equal to 7.25% per annum;
(ii) on or after the Target Exit Date up to the date immediately prior to the
seventh anniversary of the First Tranche Closing date, at a rate equal to
8.25% per annum;
(iii) on or after the seventh anniversary of the First Tranche Closing date, at a
rate equal to 9.25% per annum;
in each case this provision herein provided and provided that for such time as
YPOHL is subject to any applicable default event pursuant to the terms of any
written agreement between YPOHL and its shareholders which remains
unremedied, the Option B Cash Distribution Rate shall increase by 2.0% per
annum with effect from the date on which such event occurred until such time as
the default event is remedied to the reasonable satisfaction of the RCPS holders.

14 hours ago

Philip ( buy what you understand)

So in essence they are getting a loan of 1.5 billion with warrants at valuation of 15 billion conversion and 7.25% coupon. Flexibility indeed.

14 hours ago

Holdom2040

Sorry Philip, can further explain what means by 15billion conversion? I dont understand.

14 hours ago

jjohnchew

Hoho many uncertainties variables:

1.) IPO is expected within 3 to 5 years ..

2.) Warrants qty n ex price n maturity date ?

3.) FPSO Agogo is scheduled First Oil end 2025 / Early 2026 .

4.) FPSO Agogo debt financing is USD 1.3 billion… the Highest among Anna Nery n Maria but Charter Rate comparatively is Lower ..

—-

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > 53 minutes ago | Report Abuse

So in essence they are getting a loan of 1.5 billion with warrants at valuation of 15 billion conversion and 7.25% coupon. Flexibility indeed.

13 hours ago

jjohnchew

Hoho seems shl not be Lower than FY24 Average interest rate % …

13 hours ago

apple4ver

You're right. The correct cash rate used should be 12.95% for first five years. But, does it change the picture significantly? Option B provides lower cash rate but the balance is in PIK of 5.7%. PIK is accrued and added to the principal but eventually it has to be paid either in cash or converted to share which will dilute existing shareholders' holdings. The cash flow profile will be much better in the first 5 years but at the end of 5th year, the principal of $1,0000 per RCPS will increase to $1319 and cash payment of $95.65 (vs $72.50 in 1st year). Not unlike credit card bill, the problem is the high overall Cash + PIK rate. It shouldn't be a problem if the ROI of RCPS investment is much higher. The simple calculation above indicates otherwise. President Trump just declares energy emergency with a declared goal to increase energy production substantially. With likely lower oil price in coming years, will the charter rate increase substantially? A conservative investor will obviously prefer the "do nothing" option and reaps the benefit of additional RM300m and increasingly in interest saving from 2026 onwards.

12 hours ago

apple4ver

And there is an additional risk of IPO failure by the first target date, after which overall rate increases 1% yearly for 2 years until it reaches 14.95%.

12 hours ago

jjohnchew

WTI CRUDE
76.13 -2.25%

Stock: [YINSON]: YINSON HOLDINGS BHD
7 hours ago | Report Abuse
WTI CRUDE 58 mins
77.36 -0.67%

12 hours ago

Philip ( buy what you understand)

Sorry, what I mean is yinson production pre IPO valuation is 3.7 billion usd, meaning for you to check conversion from warrants and rcps to yinson production shares what is the minimum price. Fyi the price to convert preferred shares and warrants will be double what yinson is currently valued in bursa. I for one is very happy that yinson is not going to yinson shareholders for money and further dilution

>>>>>>
Holdom2040

Sorry Philip, can further explain what means by 15billion conversion? I dont understand.

2 hours ago

Philip ( buy what you understand)

Appl4ever you forgot that the money is not used frivolously but to grab more fpso projects. Fyi if your 1.5b usd can get you cash payment to find 2-3 500 million fpso that gives 600k per day charter rates in 4 years which net 2 billion each over 15 years, what is the irr rate? Most likely yinson has already finalized a few more new projects and looking to cheat financial requirements first.

In my opinion getting cash now for future projects while not affecting the existing fpso payments and generating more debt I think it's ok.

Paying with shares instead of cash is very favorable only if you are using it to increase revenue instead of using it frivolously

2 hours ago

Philip ( buy what you understand)

This in essence is the reason why yinson is trading at a huge discount to value. If there was no risk, this conversation is moot and no reason to hold yinson. For me I look at what yinson has done under young gun lim chern Yuen. When I bought yinson in 2013, it was a company that just started is first fpso with ptsc and run under his 30+ year old son. However in that space of
Time he was able to create huge shareholders value over the period for all involved. You can either look at the good and bad of this highly risky investment. But first look at the 2024 annual report and compare what they say and how management sharing during AGM and technical reporting compared to many other companies in bursa and you can see their transparency and how their management team is international instead of bumi or Chinese dominated. Yinson actually hires the top teams from Norway, Singapore and china and they are winning projects globally instead of just in Malaysia or Saudi. In the end you only need to worry about these few things for yinson.

1. Will they go bankrupt ? ( They have usd1.5 billion investment from funds who have been with them for a while now, and they have done more due diligence than me with only 13m risked in yinson( which is higher with my recent purchases at 2.38).

Are yinson bids profitable? ( Their rates and tender wins versus peers show they are performing better than many bigger competitors. They charge higher, complete first oil faster, irr is 18-19%, rates 600k and above with covered counterparty risk, which is on par or better than fpso majors)

Is yinson able to service debt, ( according to chai jia jun, the back of the hand calculation is simple. Their tender bids are simply fpso cost me 1.2 billion, my 15 year period nets me 5.8 billion agogo, so in 4 years pay off ship cost, 11 years is pure cash flow.

2 hours ago

Philip ( buy what you understand)

Is yinson greedy? Yes and no. Firstly they are completing agogo end of this year. So once handover they will have a team that was able to bring 4 medium size fpso to completion on time without hiccups in 4 years during COVID-19 frenzy. What happens now appl4ever with those staff if you say sit and do nothing? Firstly they are global and excellent team that will have over agogo this year, delivered Atlanta 4 months ahead of schedule ( delayed on authorities not production team), delivered maria 4 months ahead of schedule, delivered John to Ghana on time, and it seems agogo will be mid 2025 instead of early 2026.
Are you telling yinson to fire all this people or tell them to take a sabbatical?

No. You have a great team. Use them. Get one or 2 orders that will last until 2028-29, which will coincide with listing in usa under oil and esg solar supported trump. With yinson the only company doing fpso with huge solar farm and carbon capture technology it is very very sexy in terms of investment with USA funds.

In my opinion yinson has done well to not dilute shareholders, get funding from outside capital at good rates ( fyi bank funding for o&g heavy called has dried up long time ago due to high risk which is why agogo can get rates at 750k a day rate)

2 hours ago

Philip ( buy what you understand)

I'm sure in this thread I'm one of the few that bet big in 2013 when yinson first moved from being transport company with low prospects to being a fpso and osv supplier. Yes they did it during the height of oil frenzy, but their execution and growth through they years was exemplary and made me stay on even until today in 2025 when they will finally hand over agogo.

Perviously johnchew talking about first oil for Atlanta. Now handover nothing to say. Now he is saying margin call etc hidden risk. Cheap low class comments on an international company with execution. For me just one simple question to ask:

Has yinson not performed in their production, collection of payments, selection of clients. They are even getting investment from Saudi.

Have they not paid or delayed their debt payments? ( No)

Did they retire debt? (1.3 billion usd last year)

They are guiding towards 1 billion usd cash flow from solar sales, fpso fixed day charter etc. this year should be clear as their payments are fixed and easily verified.

Are they doing anything beyond the ordinary that is a red flag? No.

Are their staff not being paid, suppliers not paid, subcon not paid? ( First signs of trouble if there is, but yinson is consistently one of the best in the industry, novating the contract of th heavy with helang on time and in schedule while others fail)

So in terms of production and execution everything is crystal clear the only problem is with share price which has NOTHING to do with businesses all. Share price does not affect how the business performs but is simply a reaction to business decisions. Since company has funds and ability to buy back shares, pay dividends and has not had a cash call from yinson shareholders since they took the big fpso in 2020, I think I am much easier to just sit and wait and look at how they navigate

1 hour ago

Holdom2040

Thanks Philip for your explanation. I too bought recently at 2.37

1 hour ago

jjohnchew

Hoho see is a story teller… lo …

1 hour ago

jjohnchew

Hoho soon To be hit 10 % SBB :

Minimum price paid for each share purchased 2.350
Maximum price paid for each share purchased 2.460
Total consideration paid 7,784,111.17
Number of shares purchased retained in treasury (units) 3,254,600
Number of shares purchased which are proposed to be cancelled (units) 0
Cumulative net outstanding treasury shares as at to-date (units) 297,859,700
Adjusted issued capital after cancellation
(no. of shares) (units) 3,207,543,731
Total number of shares purchased and/or held as treasury shares against total number of issued shares of the 👉listed issuer (%) 9.28622

1 hour ago

Sally11

I am thrilled to share that I successfully recovered my $53,000 thanks to @Isabelacyberco in te'le'gr'am she's my support. This experience has been transformative, and she's is highly recommended

58 minutes ago

Zavvy22

Hi

57 minutes ago

Zavvy22

Thanks to @Isabelacyberco on Telegrm, I reclaimed my $165,937. She was not only knowledgeable but also compassionate during this stressful time. I couldn’t have done it without her support

57 minutes ago

jjohnchew

下跌股:云升控股 RM2.27支撑
2025年01月22日

云升控股（YINSON，7293，主板能源股）日闭市时报收2.39令吉，按日下跌4.0仙或1.65%。
它的股价这跌穿了之前的支撑位置后，继续出现卖压，仍然处于下跌的趋势。它的日线相对强度指数(RSI)的指标处27.67的水平。

它的支撑位置处于2.27-2.30令吉的水平间，而阻力水平处于2.44-2.48令吉的水平间。

21/01/25行情
闭市：2.39令吉

54 minutes ago

Sally11

Saya sangat teruja untuk berkongsi bahawa saya berjaya mendapatkan semula $53,000 terima kasih kepada @Isabelacyberco dalam te'le'gr'am dia adalah sokongan saya. Pengalaman ini telah berubah, dan dia sangat disyorkan

52 minutes ago

Sslee

No worries I will hold the BOD accountable, responsible and answerable for what is minuted in 2024 AGM:
EBITDA is expected to reach about USD 1 billion annually from 2026.

Free cash flow after repaying debt and interest to reach USD 200 – USD 300 million annually from 2026 onwards, based on today’s interest rates

Repost:
FPSO operation:
YTD Q1 FYE 2024(RM’ mil)
YTD Q1FYE 2025 (RM’ mil)
Variance (RM’ mil)
Revenue 365 651 286
Gross Profit 213 433 220
EBITDA 250 468 218
Core PATAMI 104 177 73
 Increase in revenue was due to fresh contribution from FPSO Anna Nery’s
operation since first oil was achieved on 7 May 2023.

Gross profit 433/651 = 66.51%
EBITDA 468/651= 71.89%
PATAMI 177/651 = 27.19%

Addition revenue after year 2026
FPSO Agogo USD million 4600/15 = 306.67 (2026 onward)
FPSO Atlanta USD million 1700/15 = 113.33
FPSO Maria Quitéria USD million 5300/22.5= 235.56
Addition USD 655.56 million per year
Per quarter USD163.89 million
USD/MYR 4.5 equalvant RM 737.505 million

Total per quarter revenue RM 651+738= RM 1,389 million
EBITDA 71.89% = RM 998.55 million
Gross profit 66.51% = RM 923.83 million
PATAMI 27.19% = RM 377.67

Above only for FPSO operation.
BOD already replied at AGM
EBITDA is expected to reach about USD 1 billion annually from 2026.

Free cash flow after repaying debt and interest to reach USD 200 – USD 300 million annually from 2026 onwards, based on today’s interest rates

52 minutes ago

Sally11

I am thrilled to share that I successfully recovered my $53,000 thanks to @Isabelacyberco in te'le'gr'am she's my support. This experience has been transformative, and she's is highly recommended

51 minutes ago

Sslee

So today will q buy 2.30 all the way down to 2.27. Wish me luck

49 minutes ago

jjohnchew

Hoho who is this story teller le .. KonLee :

Recently I bought a lot of serba dinamik bonds and stocks.

As to why? Everyone has all the relevant information, everyone has all the reports and PDFs. Importantly, serba has kept their KPMG auditors, and added EY as external reviewers for the issues brought up by KPMG, and 3 more independent directors to monitor all information on serba dinamik.



Why would frauds and liars do something like that? All I can do is present to you a story from a very good story teller.

48 minutes ago

jjohnchew

Hoho just like u blowing Xingquin even in Account Fraud ke that is Delisted on September 2019 .. 😱😅


—-

Posted by Sslee > 3 minutes ago | Report Abuse

No worries I will hold the BOD accountable, responsible and answerable for what is minuted in 2024 AGM:

44 minutes ago

Sally12

I am thrilled to share that I successfully recovered my $53,000 thanks to @Isabelacyberco in te'le'gr'am she's my support. This experience has been transformative, and she's is highly recommended

44 minutes ago

jjohnchew

Hoho sounds like in Jtiasa also le … double top 1.53 le …..😅


Posted by Sslee > 5 minutes ago | Report Abuse

So today will q buy 2.30 all the way down to 2.27. Wish me luck

38 minutes ago

jjohnchew

Nonetheless, the profile of Yinson’s loans is worth highlighting. Of the RM16.3 billion in borrowings, RM9.83 billion have a maturity of between two and five years. Those with over five years’ maturity amount to RM3.84 billion.

On the other hand, the bulk of its finance lease receivables, under total undiscounted lease payments, will only be received after more than five years and amount up to RM17.79 billion


Some observers have pointed out that the mismatch between its borrowings, the bulk of which will mature in between two and five years, and its receivables, which will be later than five years, may represent substantial refinancing risks for the group.

About RM13.7 billion of its term loans are denominated in US dollars. Some of these bear interest ranging from 3.89% to 10.17% a year on variable rates and as high as 13.88% for its fixed rate loans. The rest are denominated in ringgit and Indian rupees.
Notably, 80% of the total borrowings are variable rate borrowings while 20% are fixed rate borrowings.

While Yinson has a proven track record of being able to manage its debt levels, critics believe there could be significant risk ahead in light of the global environment should interest rates begin to rise.

37 minutes ago

Sally12

Saya sangat teruja untuk berkongsi bahawa saya berjaya mendapatkan semula $53,000 terima kasih kepada @Isabelacyberco dalam te'le'gr'am dia adalah sokongan saya. Pengalaman ini telah berubah, dan dia sangat disyorkan

36 minutes ago

jjohnchew

WTI CRUDE 58 mins
77.36 -0.67%


WTI CRUDE
76.13 -2.25%


WTI CRUDE
75.89 -2.56%

31 minutes ago

jjohnchew

Hoho Kon ss leee Next FY shl follow IFRS le … no more Operating Lease wow but Finance Lease wow …. What Shl be the Cash Flow from Operating activities le … Very Bad ke …😅

24 minutes ago

jjohnchew

Hoho see a story teller…if the Renewables projects are NOT 100 % financing shl tied up investment capital for many many years ( like JAKS LSS4 50 MW in Penang .. but is 100 % financing for 18 years ) … as the ROI is very very slow … unless Yinson is Cash Rich ….Renewables generate Revenue n Profit is still better than bank interest rate !

Yinson renewables

QR October 2024 :

Segment information:

For the Nine months period ended 31 October 2024 :

Gross Revenue : RM 127 million
Elimination. : RM 14 million
Net Revenue. : RM 113 million

Segment Results: RM 19 million

—-

They are guiding towards 1 billion usd cash flow from solar sales, fpso fixed day charter etc. this year should be clear as their payments are fixed and easily verified.

8 minutes ago