wow leno, you sound confident in your predictions.

wow....was there another cost overrun project that we are not told of? This price is ridiculous, just look at the orderbook...2018 won't be that bad...

TheContrarian, the beauty of Insas.... the deeper you look, the more you see

I got a feeling the reply will be(inspired by reading nearly all of Berkshire letters):

The nature of Insas business is investing. Therefore, we believe that we can reinvest our earnings at a higher rate of growth which leads to a higher future capital appreciation. Dividend is given if the business believes that the earnings are in such an excess that there are not better opportunity for reinvestment. As an investment company, we strive to be in a position where we can reinvest our capital at a higher rate to grow the company rather than giving dividend. Insas has a great amount of excess liquid assets now which positioned us to act first whenever there are a good opportunity. Shareholders shouldn’t be too overly concerned regarding whether is dividend given, they should instead focus on the growing value of the company. The share price of the market on the short term is just like a voting machine.However, in a long run it is a weighing machine. Sooner or later the price of the company will gravitate to its value.

In my opinion, RM3 intrinsic value is too far fetched.... his just blowing him own trumpet unless there is a hidden associate/subsidiary that can grow like Inari.

Sslee, did they mention when will the minutes for the AGM will be posted? By the way, great detail of questions asked, I manage to learn something from you, thank you for that.

Funny. Yesterday brought in at 0.915, today at 0.95. Nothing fundamentally changed, don't you just love Bursa?

Wow Inari is at 6B market cap already, that's fast....

Why is Leno even a factor to consider for your own personal investment? It does not make any sense to me.

if you can time when the price will gravitate value, please sign me up for your class. Insas is a long term holding investment, who the hell puts such a heavy emphasis on getting a fair value adjustment on their associate, it is accounted as an associate for a reason in the first place....

Oh god, just read up about equity method of accounting, it ain't that hard.

if you are selling because this quarter is worst than the previous first quarter, you might else well just sell Insas now, go ahead and follow the herd. The nature of Insas earnings is supposed to be seen from like a 3-year average point of view, do you personally judge your fair value gain and loss yearly?

I am just stating that if anyone is really sure about what's the exchange rate going to be, you might else well use your expertise in FOREX, better gains for your predictions. I am well aware that I myself cannot predict the exchange rate, therefore, might else well look at the current numbers

so many expert on currency, why play equity market? Might as well go play FOREX with such confident skills.

I think a lot investors are just worried about the strengthening of Ringgit ~oil price on an uptrend. Going to wait for quarter results for top up, want to see whether did Latitud benefit from the hurricane in US, rubberwood prices and results of their higher margin products. Anyways, if we can predict the FX, we might else well play FOREX.

mani, I mean selling everything off, sorry about that.

Besides that, it is highly unlikely that Insas will sell off their best investment. I believe Inari will continue to remain as the hidden assets with an unrecorded fair value in the balance sheet of Insas for years to come, don't put too much hope on a one-off big shoot up.

hng33, inari will still be classified as associate, the 20% is just a guideline. The main purpose of equity accounting is stating the company as an associate if they have enough interests that could directly impact any decision their associate takes. In the case of Inari, it will still be an associate even if below 20% as the BOD of Insas can directly impact decisions in Inari.

anyone can explain why Mr.Thong still has the same indirect interests in Insas despite selling roughly 0.7% of his warrants?

How does the ''pledged'' works? Force selling could make a lot of sense on why the warrant is leading the mother share, warrant goes down 5% before mother share even goes down. However, I do not think there are such a thing as force selling right?

all in all...nothing fundamentally changed but Mr.Thong shareholdings

I always thought it should be mother share pulling warrant down, somehow this the opposite way. Any clues?

by that calculation , AAX-WA is at a premium of 72%, why would the premium be so high?

the whole point of warrant is leveraging....

how do u figure out that the premium is high?

I don't get why the warrant is moving alone without movement in mother share

kevin5059, my investing style is exactly like yours. It just frustrates me a little market can be so short-sighted sometimes. That's what I was thinking about Insas, you can buy a portion of Inari without paying the premium of growth of Inari, it's a win-win situation. Plus right now I see after acquisition of DGSB at 0.045, the share price of Insas drop while on the other hand, DGSB went up 4x%.

I see the 'goreng' mentality being so prevalent when there are fantastic stories being told with no numbers to back it up. Anyways, it's good for us kevin, as it takes a longer time to realise the true value of the company, we can slowly accumulate.

Insas reinvesting our capital to good use. I don't get why people are so fixated at quarter results for Insas. The value of Insas is how their investment is compounded in a long-term, earnings should be normalized and not seen from a single year perspective, what more a single quarter. Fair value gain and loss in a short run just depend on the market sentiment...does not even tell us anything.

If last year earnings earning growth was 10%, should I expect 10% this year too and say that it is not entertaining myself? Usage of historical data to give expectation is also part speculation, that's what I was implying. Anyways, we are both shareholders, just sharing perspective.

Patrick, I agree with you. The commentary is too brief but from all the companies I look into, all the commentary is always brief, that's what I hate about the malaysian stock market.

I don't think the remuneration to the directors are not reasonable, they are driving the company forward, the book value of Insas has been increasing for the past years. They are doing a good job. Go ahead and compare Kenanga(any other investment holdings company) remuneration to Insas, remember to also compare their respective growth. Another thing you have to note is that Inari is an associate of Insas, take a look at how has Inari been doing for these few years, don't the director deserve a reasonable incentive? Another obvious job well done by the management is the fact that they dispose very low % of Inari for this FY compared previous 2 FY.

The dividend argument is that if a company has the ability of reinvesting the capital better than you, why do you even want dividend? Considering that Insas is an investment company to begin with, can u beat the growth rate of Insas assets? Record profit year with low percentage disposal of Inari, where did their profits come from? Investments.

You buy not a share but a company, capital appreciation that gravitates to value is what matter most in a long run. In hindsight, the sentiment may look 'miserable' because majority of people including yourself hates/shun away from such company.

you saying you are expecting 3 cent dividend is also 'entertaining' yourself right? I assume you use the word entertain to replace speculating.

They won't upright tell you: reducing dividend to do more R&D. However, it is obviously concluded that R&D is needed to push the business forward.

Quoted from recent quarter: (You see this most of the time)

"The Group are continuing with concerted efforts to develop new products, new design for existing products, derive better cost efficiencies and effective cost management across all functions."

if they want to grow beyong their market capitalisation now, R&D and focusing on automation is vital.

to those not happy with the dividend, just know this, if this kind of company reduce dividend despite an increase of profits, there is only one reason and it is that they believe they can reinvest the money for higher growth which would lead to higher capital appreciation for us shareholders.

Realised something, the quieter the forum of the company, the better the investment opportunity and lesser speculators paying a high premium for their stories.

price will gravitate to value

beware of the premium u are paying for growth

meistsk, more than Latitud?

when others are fearful

the rabbit has run (liihen), now wait for the tortoise(latitud) :).

stomach the pain, things like these happen in the market.

understand equity method of accounting and hold without worries~

where is the previous report done by IB?

btw i think cost challenge and right issues in Mitrajaya case is inter-related. Cost issue from project leads to high debt which leads to the need of a right issue. Knowing that cost issue stems from Petronas project due to high cost and also rushing to finish the project by this year end, there is a high possibility of early handing over fees compensation which was based on the contract.

You can call IR to find out the stage of completion of Rapid project, last i checked it was 70%, project is due at mid 2018.

if you don't feel MITRAJAYA is a good company, then right issues adds to your concern. (But if just because of the right issues, you concluded that the company is lousy then you have to re-evaluate how you study a company.)

Otherwise, it is good as this company can pay off their debt without incurring extra interests expenses.

u compare the volume at around 1.12-1.16 at around Sep 7 - 15 and then see the last week volume.

why share price of insas follow inari drop? Insas could had dispose some of Inari at 2.6...who knows?

Add-on: I think the 200-250M project aiming to close by this year is most probably the Sarawak project I mentioned.

I am obviously frustrated in the extrapolated reaction(IMO). If EPF was disposing a lot of their shares, it would be understandable that the share price is at where it is because EPF owns around 5.9-6% before the QR. However, EPF has only dispose around 0.1%. Retail follow retail, end up, all lose.

Anyways, this is definitely not a buy call or a sell call I am trying to make. I just want to share what I think and hopefully enlighten some that are worried. Anyways, if the business narrative of Mitrajaya change for real then maybe it is really time to sell. For now, not really.(IMO) For future,who knows?

its funny how in the end of HLInvest research, they put there based on 10x of estimated FY18 earnings, TP downgraded to 1.15. I cannot understand the thinking of the people behind this report, they are supposed to be financial experts? They are estimating FY18 MITRA to get RM80 MILLION in net profits. obvious checks we can do is look at 2015 net profits, lower margin also contributed RM87 MILLION and FY18 already has an orderbook that is higher than FY15. Another check is the fact that RAPID projects won't drag 2018 profits, they are already at 70% completion stage. Another plus point is the fact that they will most probably claim an early handing over fees. Early handing over fees is a contract based compensation (petronas cannot suddenly say no), this means that the cost overrun caused by the fact MITRA has to rush was accounted fully for expense only as the compensation will come later when the project is officially completed.

not a sifu but there can be due to many reasons. we could speculate~

Maybe he never expect the cost overrun to be such a downside factor? Cost overrun is common in construction companies, I personally feel retail investor reaction was extrapolated, I could be wrong, time will tell~

Maybe he knows the orderbook going to exceed expectation(have to buy at least few months before so that not so suspicious?

Orderbook at current standing is already 8xx MILLION for this year and I remember the director mention around April(I remember reading it on the star newspaper), that they are finalising details for a project at Sarawak, i guess that could be a big gain? There could also be more tenders that Mr.Tan is confident of winning, who knows~

Many other maybe's, in the end, no point speculating too much.