Posted by Icon8888 > 2014-02-05 22:12 | Report Abuse

Don't be overly alarmed by high gearing of plantation companies. When banks give out loans, they usually push the principal repayment to the back to match the plantation companies' FFB production profile.

Let me share something with you : since the founding of this country, NOT a single plantation company has gone bankrupt.

So don't lose sleep over high gearing of jtiasa (if you are old enough, you will remember how highly geared kulim was, way back in 1997).

Posted by Icon8888 > 2014-02-05 22:14 | Report Abuse

You mean jtiasa cooked the books ?

I remember you Iafx. We disagreed before in PJDev discussion. I told you that you can't make money in the market if you are pessimistic or cynical, remember ?

Posted by iafx > 2014-02-05 22:15 | Report Abuse

don't be over optimistic, u haven't seen one does not mean there isn't any. super high gearing with lousy earning, where the $ come from to pay back?

afterall, there is only 1 plantation counter ka?

Posted by Icon8888 > 2014-02-05 22:17 | Report Abuse

Iafx, Lazy to argue with you lah. Different wavelength, very difficult to communicate.

Let's agree to disagree (I know there is absolutely no chance I can convince you)

Posted by Up_down > 2014-02-05 22:43 | Report Abuse

Icon888. Your guessing on the interest paid is about that amount. Jtiasa capitalized interest 20 million as Biological Assets every year.

Posted by optimusprime > 2014-02-05 22:49 | Report Abuse

this plantation counter is the best in universe..... wakakaka.
guys, dont waste time here. move on.

Posted by Icon8888 > 2014-02-05 22:51 | Report Abuse

Thank you up down. You seemed to have done detailed study of the group. Well done

Posted by Icon8888 > 2014-02-05 22:54 | Report Abuse

I have taken a small position. No harm.

Posted by iafx > 2014-02-05 22:55 | Report Abuse

sure? borrowings denominated in USD already USD21m, not to mention the current interest bearing liabilities. fortunately, private placement repay 110m, *hopefully no dilution.

Posted by Icon8888 > 2014-02-05 22:57 | Report Abuse

Iafx, just curious, what stocks are you holding ? (Asking in friendly manner)

Posted by speakup > 2014-02-05 22:58 | Report Abuse

supermax also has borrowings in US$. our ringgit has weaken meaning companies like supermax have to pay more to service their US$ loans.

Posted by eric8168 > 2014-02-05 23:00 | Report Abuse

wait......world cup is coming.....every time when there is big event the share market will correct ....n mr koon please see each of football match during that time ,pls pls dont support the jt price ...let its price drop because jt havent so enough profit to show better pe and give good dividend. please let me (small fish) buy at lower price. tq kong xi fa cai !!!!!!!!

Posted by Up_down > 2014-02-05 23:02 | Report Abuse

Icon8888. I will study your valuation method for plantation companies.

By looking at INNO, I guess you have spent much time to do the research for all plantation related counters. INNO used to in my watchlist but I missed the opportunity to pick up at price 1.2 .

Posted by iafx > 2014-02-05 23:04 | Report Abuse

at very least supermax rolling 4q eps is 21c. there is nothing to shout about borrowings as it is integral part of every business, HOWEVER, when the level way surpass the earning continuously, that's when the bell start to ring.

some heard it some don't, nevermind, yr $ yr choice, it's juz a view here. who knows, sharky collected enough, this ctr still fried like nobody business.

Posted by Icon8888 > 2014-02-05 23:07 | Report Abuse

I also missed inno at 120 (actually it was 1.00 when I was hesitating). But I still think it is cheap now. So I bought at 156.

Posted by Up_down > 2014-02-05 23:09 | Report Abuse

Iafx. No worry about the borrowing of Jtiasa. Jtiasa bet big on extreme El Niño within 3 years.

Posted by iafx > 2014-02-05 23:14 | Report Abuse

hahahaa... finally, someone spell the magic word El Nino ;D hopefully v don't have to wait 3 years.

Posted by Up_down > 2014-02-05 23:21 | Report Abuse

Don't under estimate the magic of El Niño. It is very powerful

WMO El Niño/La Niña Update

30 January 2014
Download pdf versions: English Français Español

Current Situation and Outlook

The tropical Pacific continues to be ENSO-neutral (neither El Niño nor La Niña). Model forecasts and expert opinion suggest that neutral conditions are likely to continue into the second quarter of 2014. Current model outlooks further suggest an enhanced possibility of the development of a weak El Niño around the middle of 2014, with approximately equal chances for neutral or weak El Niño. However, models tend to have reduced skill when forecasting through the March-May period. National Meteorological and Hydrological Services and other agencies will continue to monitor the conditions over the Pacific and assess the most likely state of the climate through the first half of 2014.

Since the second quarter of 2012 El Niño-Southern Oscillation (ENSO) indicators in the tropical Pacific (e.g., tropical Pacific sea surface temperatures, sea level pressure, cloudiness and trade winds) have generally been at neutral levels, indicating that neither El Niño nor La Niña conditions have been present.

The latest outlooks from climate models and expert opinion suggest that oceanic conditions and atmospheric anomalies associated with El Niño or La Niña are most likely to remain neutral into the second quarter of 2014, with virtually all models maintaining average conditions. However, by around the middle of 2014, model forecasts generally indicate the chance of El Niño increasing to a similar level as that for ENSO-neutral. For the June to August period, nearly one-half of the models surveyed predict a weak El Niño situation to develop, while the other one-half predict a continuation of neutral conditions. It must be noted that model outlooks that span March-May period tend to have particularly lower skill than those made at other times of year. Hence some caution should be exercised when using long range outlooks made at this time for the middle of the year and beyond. Of the one or two models that predict the development of La Niña, such conditions are reached only briefly during the next couple of months.

Overall, while there is a very slight chance for La Niña development in the next one to two months, ENSO-neutral is considered the most likely scenario into to the April to June period, followed by roughly equal chances for neutral or weak El Niño during the third quarter of 2014.

It is important to note that El Niño and La Niña are not the only factors that drive global climate patterns. At the regional level, seasonal outlooks need to assess the relative impacts of both the El Niño/La Niña state and other locally relevant climate drivers. For example, the state of the Indian Ocean Dipole, or the Tropical Atlantic SST Dipole, may impact the climate in the adjacent land areas. Locally applicable information is available via regional/national seasonal climate outlooks, such as those produced by WMO Regional Climate Centres (RCCs), Regional Climate Outlook Forums (RCOFs) and National Meteorological and Hydrological Services (NMHSs).

In summary:

ENSO conditions are currently neutral (neither El Niño nor La Niña);
As of mid-January 2014, except for a small possibility for weak and brief La Niña development during the next couple of months, outlooks indicate likely continuation of neutral conditions into the second quarter of 2014;
Current forecasts indicate approximately equal chances for neutral conditions or the development of a weak El Niño during the third quarter of 2014, reflecting increased chances for development of a weak El Niño.
The situation in the tropical Pacific and Indian Ocean will continue to be carefully monitored. More detailed interpretations of regional climate fluctuations will be generated routinely by the climate forecasting community over the coming months and will be made available through the National Meteorological and Hydrological Services. For web links of the National Meteorological Hydrological Services, please visit:

http://www.wmo.int/pages/members/members_en.html

Posted by Up_down > 2014-02-06 10:58 | Report Abuse

Icon8888, your statement: " could it be because JT has bigger planted area (and as a result, more immatured palms) than TA, hence need to incur higher operating cost (fertiliser , etc) ? "

If you look at the accounting policy of Biological Assets, it seems that the all operating costs (fertilizer & etc) for Immature palm is capitalized as Biological Assets. Back to question again. Why Jtiasa make so less profit? Is it due to inefficiency of its operation?

" Plantation expenditure incurred on land clearing, upkeep of immature oil palms, administrative expenses and interest incurred during the pre-cropping period are capitalised under biological assets and are not amortised.

Upon maturity, all subsequent maintenance expenditure is charged to the statement of comprehensive income.
Replanting expenditure incurred on similar crops on formerly developed areas is chargeable to the profit or
loss in the financial year in which it is incurred. "

Posted by Icon8888 > 2014-02-06 11:02 | Report Abuse

inefficiency could be a factor also. They spent past thirty years chopping down trees, now have to learn to plant trees.... maybe they are not used to it...ha ha ha

Posted by okdoke > 2014-02-06 11:13 | Report Abuse

Hi Up_down, I am newbie in KLSE and now interested in TA Ann ( of course Buy and Sell at my own risk ).. mind sharing your knowledge? what data you focus to evaluate lower risk and faster growth rate for TaAnn compared to Jtiasa based on below data(Thanks in advance) :


TAAN
Weight average number of shares: 370,537,000 ( 38.3% of Jaya Tiasa )

Palm oil segment:
Land bank: 97,855 hectares
Planted area : 35,345 hectares
Mature area: 26,161 hectares
Immature area: 9,184 hectares ( 26% of Planted area )

Timber concessions with a total area of 362,439 hectares
Reforestation:
Total Land Area: 313,078 hectares
Planted Area : 33,000 hectares

PER: 23.7
Gearing ratio: 27.7%
Dividend Yield: 2.42%
Dividend declared in past 12 months : 10%
Average costs / hectare : RM 9,020
Amortization of Biological assets of 319 million over 25 years

Posted by Icon8888 > 2014-02-06 14:45 | Report Abuse

going up..... 235 now...

Posted by Icon8888 > 2014-02-06 14:56 | Report Abuse

238

Posted by Icon8888 > 2014-02-06 14:58 | Report Abuse

in stock market, the person who makes money wins the argument

everything else is bullshit

Posted by tonylim > 2014-02-06 15:16 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by kaliawke > 2014-02-06 15:17 | Report Abuse

Luck is what happen when preparation meets oppoturnity

Posted by Icon8888 > 2014-02-06 15:20 | Report Abuse

tonylim newbie why so angry ? cool down....

Posted by tonylim > 2014-02-06 15:23 | Report Abuse

newbie? LOL

Posted by eric8168 > 2014-02-06 16:16 | Report Abuse

shark let price down.......

Posted by Up_down > 2014-02-12 21:00 | Report Abuse

Okdoke
I would focus on the data below for making a comparison.

Business operation
1. Land bank ( evaluate the long term growth potential given available land resources )
2. Planted area. ( evaluate mid term growth )
3. Mature / immature area ( evaluate mid term growth )
4. FFB production / hectare ( evaluate short / mid term growth )
5. OER ( evaluate business operation efficiency )

Financial
1. PE
2. Gearing ( evaluate borrowing ability to fund mid term or long term growth )
3. Planted costs / hectare ( evaluate business operation efficiency )
4. Current financial performance

Posted by mcmalcolm > 2014-05-30 18:24 | Report Abuse

jaya tiasa may boast higher earnings but it has continuously penalized investors by providing inadequate dividends.

Posted by haikeyila > 2014-08-29 16:06 | Report Abuse

where is everyone now??

Posted by Up_down > 2014-08-30 08:05 | Report Abuse

Is it the market return the justice to those people being screwed few months ago?

" Jaya Tiasa has this ability of producing more and more profit in the next 10 years. Now you, especially kk123 & wt222 who has ridiculed me before must go back to study my article “Why I sold R Sawit and SOP to buy Jaya Tiasa”. It is important for those who have not been successful in stock picking must change their old style or mind-set. Kk123 & wt222 must examine your track record to realise how well you have performed before you dare to ridicule me. "

Posted by Surelaughdie > 2014-08-30 10:48 | Report Abuse

Wakaka. Should have listened to optimusprime .

Posted by Up_down > 2014-08-30 13:42 | Report Abuse

Is this is the lesson to us? ' don't be too cocky no matter who you are. The nature of market force is unpredictable.'

Posted by laughnonstop > 2014-09-01 21:56 | Report Abuse

up__down. ppl billionair ma. fark also smell like perfume. me n u taklak pangkat, taklat standard. who want to listen.

Posted by Up_down > 2014-09-01 22:17 | Report Abuse

Laughnonstop. We are here just to give some comments based on the facts and figures. These input may not carry weight for their decision making. It's up to them to decide. People like to listen great growth story. People believed that one great supper investor were helping them to make money by driving the share price up. Our comments may not be relevant to them. Many did not know it is just half of the facts presented to them. It common to pay some tuition fee for learning an experience.

Posted by laughnonstop > 2014-09-01 22:23 | Report Abuse

they should thank Uncle koon for giving them the most important lesson in stock trading. albeit at very high cost. wakakaka.

the uncle koon message to all.

"dont trust anyone, not even a philantropist tycoon a warran buffet wannabe."

so guys n girls, now u know the free charkueyteow in ipoh is actually very expensive.

Posted by alphajack > 2014-09-01 22:25 | Report Abuse

What else but Insas. Next up would probably be Plenitude.

Posted by laughnonstop > 2014-09-01 22:27 | Report Abuse

hmmm. tis is good.



optimus2
129 posts
Posted by optimus2 > Jan 31, 2014 10:36 AM | Report Abuse

Make me laugh onli...outdate la. Wrong angle


Koon Yew Yin
257 posts
Posted by Koon Yew Yin > Jan 31, 2014 11:13 AM | Report Abuse

Readers would notice that optimus2 is trying to ridicule me. Why don't optimus2 tell us his real name instead of hiding behind the pseudonym so that we know how clever he is or how much money he has made from the stock market. If he has any intelligence, he should write his comment in proper English so that we can learn something from him. Unless he does that I can only say that he is just a big gas bag and have mud or air in his head.

I always welcome controversial view so that I can learn and appreciate others point of view.


TengTJ
29 posts
Posted by TengTJ > Jan 31, 2014 11:37 AM | Report Abuse

Optimus-You can disagree with Mr.Koon,but please have respect for him and any forumer here.

Gong Xi Fa Cai to all

Posted by laughnonstop > 2014-09-01 22:27 | Report Abuse

Posted by optimusprime > Feb 5, 2014 10:49 PM | Report Abuse

this plantation counter is the best in universe..... wakakaka.
guys, dont waste time here. move on.

Posted by ksng0307 > 2014-10-28 11:24 | Report Abuse

Thumbs up to uncle Koon for sparing his time in doing the research of Jtiasa. Whether you agree with him or not is immaterial, rather we should appreciate him in sharing this info to the general public. It is not easy to write up such detailed information and analysis without certain knowledges and writing skills. Being the founder of IJM, Mr Koon certainly has the ability to do so. Thaning you and look forward to your future artticles on share investing.

Posted by haikeyila > 2014-11-29 13:40 | Report Abuse

self-proclaimed super-investor was super-wrong with this one, and went into hiding. hopefully not suffering from a super-loss

Posted by kk123 > 2014-11-29 15:48 | Report Abuse

Well he who recommend probably already cash out or cutloss
So be careful of all these so call super investors or super conman

Posted by kk123 > 2014-11-29 15:50 | Report Abuse

Now mr koon & his goons followers are all hiding from losses
Once recover he will come out and blow trumpet again

Posted by littlekoon > 2014-11-29 15:57 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by kk123 > 2014-11-29 16:01 | Report Abuse

Mudajaya also mr koon loss big time
Although he promoted it as though the company has few tons of gold inside it's account

Posted by littlekoon > 2014-11-29 16:06 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by kk123 > 2014-11-29 20:12 | Report Abuse

Mr koon trap many in jaya tiasa and Mudajaya
I hope u all already cutloss as I m sure koon has took profit or cutloss long time ago

Posted by frankienang > 2014-11-29 20:19 | Report Abuse

Like what they say, never trust Penang lang