Posted by Peter Lee > 2014-02-22 09:59 | Report Abuse

mr koon,you are great,the main purpose for them to set up the bandage is to grab money without fear,our country is blessed with everything and we now have 550 billion debt,other country have nothing ,now world no 3 richest country

Posted by tptan45 > 2014-02-22 10:06 | Report Abuse

Dear Mr. Koon,
I think much more due diligence was done, in more ways, and on more aspects than you and I can ever imagine. Only after the benefits outweighs the risk, the pros outweigh the cons, was the project implemented.
I am sure you know what i mean.

Posted by Gen2 > 2014-02-22 10:58 | Report Abuse

I personally think the intention of Tun is good... however, after so many years we just can not achieved to the expected level...

Posted by soojinhou > 2014-02-22 11:31 | Report Abuse

Oh boy how much and how long did the rakyat bleed because of Proton. On top of the drain on finances, buyers have to put up with Proton's arrogance in the early days. Either you wait half a year, buy another hugely inflated foreign marque, or slip in some kopi duit to get your car earlier. The mentality of their staff is also atrocious, with many having "tidak apa" attitude. I had a piece of crap 1.8L Waja. That piece of junk had a gearbox problem that Proton workshop is unable to fix even after 3 visits. My wife's Wira had a fuel tank problem that was identified only after 4-5 visits to Proton workshop. Incompetence is Proton's motto. And forget about inviting that Mahathir scum to speak. He's now senile and can't remember the screw ups he made. Serves them right that Proton is now eating humble pie.

Posted by yfchong > 2014-02-22 12:05 | Report Abuse

The whole idea of national car is good it has the supply chain automotive drive ie components however the driving force is less. Importantly the core technology to acquire design, stamping welding, plastic, CADCAM ., core tools machinery were not set in place not forgetting tools n dies development. Just ask our selves in automotive industries do we have our own development . If not mistaken all the machine are imported. I can think of our conveyance systems are likely on par with international level.

Not like other automotive players where they used their own country machines. Example in automotive just speeding of robotic arm does our country has one brand name. Unlike japan all are home grown like fanuc, Mitsubishi, Europe abb, USA ge......just to say welding wire also hard to name one player that cross my mind........ Cheers...

Posted by yfchong > 2014-02-22 12:11 | Report Abuse

Putting in another example HRC coil for body parts is our nation steel mills able to roll out a consistent perfect coils that meet the JIs requirement forgetting about the VDA std...... This will gauge how far apart the deviation. Comparatively a Korean mill which is about same establishment time they can surpass the JIS but a little works to catch up with the Japan player....

Posted by yfchong > 2014-02-22 12:23 | Report Abuse

Just to recap some of the points in aluminium casting do we has a own board.... Pointing out china has and extensive doing research n publishing standards and conferences that had been tied up in aerospace advance material. The concepts n ideas development will put into aluminium foundry works . Aluminium components make a centain percentage in car manufacturing....

Posted by alenac > 2014-02-22 12:31 | Report Abuse

Yes, everybody knows proton was a disaster. TDM set up Proton, despite many experts have predicted its non financial viability, with a big ego. It was setup to move the malays into the technological era via the look East policy. However, along the way, by imposing tariffs and other barriers to protect Proton cars, it turned into a tool for rent seeking via the issuance of APs to cronies to milk money from imported car buyers.

Even now, because of its political ramifications, the promised abolishment of APs to parallel importers was stalled as the car import business has developed into a rent seeking bumiputra crony dependency. All the hype about technology transfers and skills development as argued by Mahathir are just figments of imagination in his mind to justify Proton existence.

Posted by andychucky28 > 2014-02-22 12:42 | Report Abuse

Because of proton, you guys are buying more expensive cars comparing to other countries.

Posted by kk123 > 2014-02-22 14:09 | Report Abuse

Proton cant compete in terms of technology and quality
And but since it's a dr m project it can't fail
But their car is very uncompetitive both locally and globally
Imagine if the same amount spent or lost in proton is use to acquire some big companies like Nissan or mitsubishi itself maybe today proton already a global brand
Instead it's a local brand and remains so for eternity

Posted by speakup > 2014-02-22 14:17 | Report Abuse

agree proton was a huge mistake. mahathir should have used the money to build a great public transport like singapore MRT.

Posted by speakup > 2014-02-22 14:18 | Report Abuse

because of mahathir's mistake, everybody has to buy a car today and have to pay tolls today. public transport in KL mostly used by the very poor and foreigners.

Posted by 31153115 > 2014-02-22 14:19 | Report Abuse

after 20++ years experience can only proud of guaranteed power windows for life, otherwise need to use your hand to give more power to the POWER window when paid TOL, what a joke in the world!!!!

Posted by 31153115 > 2014-02-22 14:28 | Report Abuse

nevermind lo, just keep on rebadging, Mitsubishi, Honda, later VW, after that TATA maybe, hehehehe. But on the other hand they still get R & D Incentive, just to do research work in how to rebadge car, iiii.... what a shame!!!

Posted by kk123 > 2014-02-22 14:41 | Report Abuse

Proton I'd say is a good choice if u want to use it as taxi
Most of the red taxi use old proton
But the car is shaky , dirty, and frequent breakdown
Still it must be a proud occasion for dr m
Pride is more important than failures and losing billions is his greatest joy

Posted by Duitbesar > 2014-02-22 14:43 | Report Abuse

Uncle Koon, pasal Proton ni semua pun tau dah. You pusing cerita pun you tak boleh buat apa-apa selain modal politik saja. Abang suggest uncle Koon jadi calon Kajang buat ceramah sampai pagi pun. Proton takde dalam saham dah uncle Koon, dah lingkup masuk DRBHicom. Kerajaan tak boleh buat apa kalau Syed Mokhtar jual Proton dengan Jerman pun sebab Kazanah pun dah jual saham dia juga. Tun Mahathir memang silap banyak tapi dia tak pegang kerajaan dah, dah 2 kali Perdana Menteri tukar pun mungkin tukar lagi sebelum pilihanraya. Dengar-dengar Muhiyiddin jadi Perdana Menteri sebelum pilihanraya seterusnya. Bagus uncle Koon tolong tips dengan kami saham yang power. Saham Jtiasa yang uncle rekomen tu memang lembab sangat. Contoh Latitud dari 2.00 dah sampai 2.80 tak sampai 2 minggu pun. Uncle punya Jtiasa dah berhambuk 1 tahun pun kura-kura dah pusing balik 5 kali. So pasal politik dunia Malaysia ke, MAS ke, Proton ke, kami don't care dah.

Posted by Seek > 2014-02-22 15:47 | Report Abuse

Thanks Uncle Koon for Mas n Proton write up. Not many dare to criticize. Hope the govt of the day do not get into further wasteful projects not beneficial to our nation's finance. Our ringgit has dropped so much n we all suffering as a result.

Posted by Gen2 > 2014-02-22 15:48 | Report Abuse

No doubt proton's quality is still not so comparing with some of the models but as a Malaysian shall we only think about how bad it is ? or shall we think about how to support it ?

I remembered 4 years ago when I was at Seoul I can see most of the Korean driving Korean car either they are Hyundai or Kia or other's, did they always complaining ? Some might said nowadays the Korean car is superbly built but if not supported by their peoples buying their car since long ago how could they achieved what they are today ?

The intention of setting up national car is good but the accomplishment is just involved too many challenge and sadly to me that after so many years proton still has long way to go...

Posted by Duitbesar > 2014-02-22 15:57 | Report Abuse

Gen2, kereta korea pun memang tak berkualiti dulu. Industri kereta korea dan Malaysia mula pun sama. Vision 2020 pun ciplak Korea juga. Tapi hari ini Korea jauh lebih maju. Barangan Korea, budaya Korea Kpop ni jangan cakaplah, budak-budak sekarang semua Kpop. Tengok budaya jugalah. Orang kita memang kuat meroyan sangat, nak banyak sumbangan kosong, ini budaya Malaysia mah, kuat komplan, kuat tunjuk perasaan tak puas hati, semua pun tak betul. Cuba banding orang Korea pulak, kalau kerja sampai buta mata pun sanggup tak komplan banyak. Budaya Korea dan Jepun dah sama taraf, tapi banding China, korang pun tau, barangan China tak berkualiti langsung. So banding kereta China dengan Proton, korang pun tak mahu kereta China bagi free pun tak sanggup. Betul tak? So Pasal benda macam ni, baik diam saja.

Posted by mc121534 > 2014-02-22 16:09 | Report Abuse

Though Tun's ideas and thoughts has put to test, mostly initially criticised his many so call mega development projects. They later had to swallow their words, it soon prove that those mega projects were the one helps Malaysia achieve commendable progress. No doubt under His leadership, Malaysia has risen to great heights
into rapid industrialisation ,science and technology. The controversial launching of our National car project, blast into orbit of Measat 1, Astro, Multi Media Super Corridor, new KLIA, SMART, TWIN TOWERS and many much more that must not be forgotten.
During his leadership, He was frequently criticised about his authoritarian and dictatorship but in return
Tun dared to criticised the Western World, Jews, Caucasians, the Islamic World and Malaysian at the same time. He almost spare no one!
I am very proud to have a Prime Minister with this rare capabilities and his great visions.
Although Tun has a few controversial Mega projects, but he had contributed a lot from 1981 to 2003.

Let's forgive and appreciate our retired Prime Minister.
I always remember his quotes :
" Work must be enjoyed like the same way like we are playing, a bored player will not win, and does not produce.
He merely marks his time. He is a wage slave."

That quotes wake up all Malaysian.

Posted by Duitbesar > 2014-02-22 16:17 | Report Abuse

Memang senang sangat nak kutuk Tun Mahathir. Uncle Koon pun kena paham, bukan mudah tau nak tadbir Malaysia dengan berbilang kaum semua nak itu nak ini. Melayu, cina, india, iban, arab nak itu ini, semua nak tapi semua tak nak dengar rasional. Abang berani cakap Malaysia ini negara paling susah nak tadbir sebab semua nak kerajaan buat untuk mereka tapi mereka tak nak bantu pun. Hari-hari krisis macam sekarang bila semua meroyan. Dah 2 PM selepas Tun Mahathir tak dapat kawal emosi rakyat Malaysia, kira dah masuk kes parah tidak lama lagi jadi macam Thailand. So please, respect kat Tun Mahathir walaupun dia banyak buat korang tak puas hati. Proton ini kalau dijual pun tak rugi kerajaan, MAS jual pun tak rugi kerajaan. So look at the bright side. Cuma rakyat sama yang tak boleh jual.

Posted by thteh > 2014-02-22 16:19 | Report Abuse

For the big ego and folly of one man, millions of citizen has to pay higher car price to subsidize a dying proton. Off course crony and relatives have benefited.

Posted by Mohd Syazwan > 2014-02-22 16:29 | Report Abuse

uncle koon just wasted my 3 minutes reading this political crap. hello this is not msian insider ffs.

Posted by optimus7 > 2014-02-22 17:08 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by optimus7 > 2014-02-22 17:11 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Duitbesar > 2014-02-22 17:15 | Report Abuse

Uncle Koon zaman Tun Mahathir dulu pun jadi kayaraya mah. Beli saham tak guna otak pun boleh untung besar mah. Uncle Koon bukan saja dapat segala kemewahan dalam BN tapi masa bila-bila boleh jumpa Tun Mahathir dulu. Kenapa sekarang baru nak kutuk Tun Mahathir dan BN? Kami disini kecewa sebab Uncle Koon rekomen Jtiasa tapi pulangan ciput. Lepas tu kena baca rencana politik pulak di forum ni. Dua-dua masuk parit, both politik dan saham.

Posted by optimus7 > 2014-02-22 17:17 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Saturn > 2014-02-22 18:30 | Report Abuse

Fantastic......uncle Koon Kudos.....I like the write up.....even the headlining......
Ppl question base on timing all the time.....but the relevance is far far from the truth.....they also don't realise businessman of Yester years are different from today esp amongst the Chinese.....

Instead of asking so many contravene questions, ask how the brain child's son can be a billionaire within one generation???? That's all there is to the question......

Robert and Ananda took one lifetime to achieve the status....Mahathir son within a generation....was he doing business in the womb??

Posted by Duitbesar > 2014-02-22 19:46 | Report Abuse

Saturn, anak Tun Mahathir pun bijak juga. You ingat senang ke buat M&A oil and gas. So what? That boleh ke anak bekas PM hebat dalam korporat? Dalam korporat sekarang pun ramai generasi kedua pun jadi lebih kaya contoh CHHB anak pompuan dia takeover, ada orang lain bising? Ecoworld pun gitu juga malah most listed company sekarang ini generasi kedua takeover. Kalau melayu maju sikit memang mulut busuk bukan bumiputera bising sangat. Hati busuk sangat.

Posted by pilindo > 2014-02-22 20:32 | Report Abuse

Koon; u have to consider we are young country. It is very difficult to do 100% right decision at that time. Our neighborhood country also was not doing well at that time like thai, indonesia, singapore. where we can do good business? No China power at that time. But now we are developing our country.

Regards,
PKR and Anwar supporter.

Posted by soojinhou > 2014-02-22 20:41 | Report Abuse

Ya betul. Tolong respect tu pengkhianat Mahathir yang menjual IC kepada orang asing supaya UMNO boleh terus pegang kuasa. Betul, Malaysia susah nak takbir, sampai open tender pun tak dapat dilaksanakan. Ya, semua kaum nak bertengkar sahaja, tak nak bekerjasama langsung, walaupun UMNO yang beri dana kepada Perkasa.

Posted by alenac > 2014-02-22 20:46 | Report Abuse

"anak Tun Mahathir pun bijak juga"

http://mahazalimz.tripod.com/27699xb.html

http://members.tripod.com/polong_cyber/select2/1103010.htm

Posted by pilindo > 2014-02-22 20:54 | Report Abuse

Koon, kenapa suka kritik kesalahan yang lepas seperti Mas dan Proton? kenapa tidak buat pendekatan yang lebih banyak beri faedah. Semua orang tahu Mas dan proton bermasalah. cuba beri solution macam mana nak selesaikan masalah Mas dan Proton. Mahadir memang kotor orangnya tapi banyak jugak dia beri sumbangan. Mahadir buat keputusan pun bukan seorang. banyak penasihat2 beri pandangan.

Saya percaya Pakatan boleh bawa jauh lebih baik untuk Malaysia. Tapi kurangkan la kritik mcm ni. AirAsia ada pun semasa bawah pemerintahan skrg.

Soalan saya Koon; macam mana nak kurangkan atau kawal harga property di Malaysia? Soalan yang membina sikit.

Posted by pilindo > 2014-02-22 22:17 | Report Abuse

In Australia,big news is Holden (Australia National Car) will be closed in 2017 due to very high expenses on worker salary. Toyota Australia as well will be closed in 2017.

Solution is importing car from other country after 2017. No Toyota and Holden manufacturer anymore in Australia

Posted by Tommylim > 2014-02-22 22:25 | Report Abuse

Pilindo, Holden was never imported to Malaysia. Looks like my dream of owning Holden sedan will never come true. Holden make the best sedan in similar class to BMW. Its unfortunate death of Holden, a car brand that carry weight in Australians pride. Thank you. http://www.holden.com.au/

Posted by pilindo > 2014-02-22 22:44 | Report Abuse

Holden is very good car. But my car is just Ford falcon 1995. Car in Malaysia is Vios. I dont know, why i dont trust proton. So many bad reputation from Proton.

Posted by calvinwky168 > 2014-02-22 23:04 | Report Abuse

When proton can be independent, doing business without "tongkat" from rakyat, then rakyat might not be so bising. After DRB bought them, they still take taxpayers money todo business. Automotive development fund is taxpayers money.
Rakyat has been fair to proton, more than 25years. If cumulate overall money proton get from gov, how many billions is it? Did rakyat bising before year 2000?
I think the noise from rakyat is louder now, because they really want to see proton achieve something, not keep on relying on rakyat's fund.
Proton also have to be fair to rakyat. How long want to use rakyat's money? At least give rakyat a commitment/ dateline. Another 25years? 50 years? I just hope soon, so that rakyat will not bising anymore.

Posted by mc121534 > 2014-02-22 23:09 | Report Abuse

Dear all Malaysian ,our intention i3 forum is to focus on stocks and investment. Somewhere and somehow we are now being diverted away from our main agenda which is solely for sharing of stock investment, strategies and trading of stocks.
Sigh,I do not see the benefits derived by discussing about the history of Tun Mahathir our former Prime Minister. We are unable to reverse our country's history by criticising his mistakes anymore.
Question, do we have any other capable leaders that had put Malaysia in the world map. Before him we were known as people who lives in 'tree houses'.
Well, what had been done cannot be undone, so let's all move forward with great ideas rather than keeping on critising all the time. My learned friend are you a better manager yourself that can lead and deliver results?
Yes, MAS and Proton are losing entities at the moment BUT they are among the largest corporation providing employment and supporting our domestic economy.

Please don't create any further unnecessary issues in your blog. Preferably you will continue to share with us your favourite stocks with us rather than giving us your negative views on history which is beyond our control.
Please correct me if I am wrong, keep politics and racial issues out from our blog as I feel it may lead to sensitivity among us.

Relax and enjoy your golden years, remember your acheivable "five rules to be happy".

Posted by lohman > 2014-02-23 11:46 | Report Abuse

Governments have no business to be in business. If they need to be, they should only be in essential businesses like regulated public utilities supplying electrical power, water and the like. The Government's role, other than in certain exceptions, should be limited to providing the environment for private enterprise to compete and flourish. Why is this BN government involved in so many diverse local business ventures to the extent they unfairly compete with private enterprise? Initially, it was to facilitate objectives of the NEP/NDP. Now these objectives are lost in transition as GLCs dominate numerous sectors; many including MAS and Proton are horribly inefficient and would have been bankrupted in a market driven economy. Taxpayers and consumers have paid the cost of such inefficiencies and other hidden costs, and are still doing so. It's not about Mahathir and politics. It's about a free enterprise economy, private entrepreneurship and innovation that are being throttled by excessive government.

Posted by sarawakian > 2014-02-23 15:48 | Report Abuse

remember the old proton's advert song..."Proton Saga, Kejayaan Malaysia"...back then in my 20s, i was telling my fren, it's "Kegagalan".....the root cause of the Proton's saga is that we have "perceived surplus resources to spare" = "natural resources curse" coined by Stiglitz....buat silap sekali, takpe....ada minyak mah....

Posted by zan122208 > 2014-02-23 19:06 | Report Abuse

Can anyone tell me how many small vendor benefited from proton? Would they be given chance to produce parts if proton is not here in the first place? Can money buy pride? Proton cars has won many awards, proven that proton cars not sucks anymore. Dont Malaysia feel proud about this? If everything is about money and cents, you'll loose the purpose of life.

Posted by calvinwky168 > 2014-02-23 22:41 | Report Abuse

Zan, unfortunately proton is in an industry where economies of scale matters. To produce a model, there's a fixed cost. This fixed costs keeps in increasing yearly, inflation, salary increment, bonus, raw materials, etc.
Unfortunately, proton sales in volume remain so so after so many years. If you average last 10years, what is the growth rate? Negative?
If proton cars only sell this much volume, so are it's vendors. The vendors also face cost increase pressure, but their sales growth can cope with this cost increase?
How are proton and it's vendors going to offset these cost increase? One of the way is to pass it to consumers.
Another way, mintak fund dari rakyat la. Tak de duit nak develop model baru, technologi baru.
Sooner or later, they going to ask more funds. Unless DRB can increase the sales volume of proton.
Now the sales volume is less than 200k.
A comparison study, chery and proton. Kalau nak cakap quality, proton of course better. Proton was born earlier than chery,
Proton born in 1985, cherry born in 1997. See Wikipedia.
tapi tengok sales volume chery. In 2009, over 400k. 200k is export outside china. Cherry don't rely on gov help to further grow it's business. Cherry don't wait for rakyat china or government fund to help grow it's business. It is cherry management that is doing something to grow it's business.
Proton tried selling in Iran and Egypt, tapi tengokla sales volume dia? Berapa? Berapa lama dah Cuba Jual Kat sana?
Tengok cherry, just Egypt sales alone dah exceed proton berapa kali? Ini Kita cakap Jual kat negara Islam. Where proton should have a competitive advantage. We know our leaders are very close to their leaders, especially the wifes.
So, I am saying if things at proton don't improve, the whole nation will keep on bleeding money for them. And with it, the whole vendor systems that rely on them.
Pay a visit to Thailand, look at their vendors. Compare the vendors company size in Thailand and Msia?
How much employment opportunity they offer and what is ours?
Then, wait another 3 to 4 years, then go visit the vendors in Indonesia. Then compare with Malaysia? Kita Akan semakin ketinggalan.

Posted by pilindo > 2014-02-24 01:36 | Report Abuse

Kena beli Toyota la.

Posted by Koon Yew Yin > 2014-02-24 05:37 | Report Abuse

mc121534, Business and politics are inseparable. That is why the famous London School of Economics has degree courses in economics and political science. Proton and MAS are useful lessons for any investor. A really successful investors must have a wide knowledge including politics because the politicians often make rules that would affect businesses.

Why do you say that I should not write about Proton in this forum? Don't you see how Dr Mahathir, a politician who promoted Proton is affecting your pocket unless you or your family does not own or buy a car.

I know you are annoyed when you read this. Please ask your teacher or your friend to find out if I am right in criticising Proton and MAS in this forum.

Posted by mc121534 > 2014-02-24 14:39 | Report Abuse

Koon Yew Yin, thanks for giving me a chance to clarify clearly,

1. Criticism is not a bad thing, the goal is discussion and its not a tool to ruining and belittling someone's work.
At least it shouldn't be. I am willing to accept that the problematic issues and contents are there.
No doubt about it. Nothing is ever perfect, if were all holding out for perfection, we'd be in permanent statis. " lmperfect" is ok, always striving to be BETTER is ideal.

2. Good Criticism is to correct and change negative behavioural to positive.
If anyone ever do really need to criticised, then package it well and present it with kindness to others.
Present it as if it were a suggestions rather than criticism.

3. Let's face it,everyone has different idea about the things should be done and is is not going to be possible for "someone" or "some issues" to be change for all the criticism you have done. The TWO issues you mentioned is too far and too heavy for you and us to resolve.

"We speaks to ONE person won't speak to another, what's bother one person, another won't even NOTICE".
Even with all of us combined here we still can't change the reality, no matter how knowledgeable we are.

I have to make it clear, I have too many unsatisfactory issues with my country, but I love my country.
I am grateful that it is absolutely better than some other neighbouring countries.
I admired Tun Mahathir because he has done a lot to our country, but please bear in mind, nobody is perfect.
Including Me and You.

I may rather choose to use my vote to voice my dissatisfaction.

Posted by qj1512 > 2014-02-25 00:10 | Report Abuse

I love my country too. It is fair for Mr Koon to air his views.what he is telling is the truth, maybe truth hurts. What is important is that the country is not UMNO's, Malaysia belongs to all Malaysians. Any policy by the government should be for the good of all Malaysians in a long term perspective. Why MAS and PROTON, The 2 companies that drain the national coffer ( it still continues to)PRIDE OF THE COUNTRY ? It becomes a joke and it hurts.

Posted by Duitbesar > 2014-02-25 00:16 | Report Abuse

Uncle Koon nak guna isu MAS dan Proton sebagai modal politik saja. Apa lagi yang kita tak tahu pasal MAS dan Proton, semua kita dah tahu dah. Isu dia, kenapa nak bawa ke forum saham, Uncle Koon dah beberapa kali bawa modal politik, tak baiklah sebab sensitive sangat buat masa ini. Sentiment tak baik sangat. Semua dah meluak dengan politik, kos hidup terlalu tinggi. So siapa bagi tips saham kaw kaw memang kena sanjung tinggi macam Uncle Z.

Posted by andychucky28 > 2014-02-25 00:21 | Report Abuse

Why Tata in India can sell car at USD 2,500? How much is our cheapest poton?

Posted by Steven Yong > 2014-03-18 00:50 | Report Abuse

Same goes to MAS

Posted by IntrepidNavigator > 2015-06-04 12:26 | Report Abuse

I don't think it was a 'mistake to begin with'. Comparatively, many developed nations used the same tactics - imposed high import taxes, duties and tarrifs for competing manufacturers. The USA to Australia to UK, to Japan... all did the same, at one point or another. So, to call it 'a mistake to begin with' is being a bit unfair and prejudiced. We were all there, it was National Pride. It was going with the times for a country with the given natural resources.

At the time, in the 70's and 80's, national development policies around the world, and especially in the newly independent and developing economies, was focused on building upon national self-dependency.
It was only later that neo-classical economics and 'golbalisation' and thoughts of 'global comparative advantage' became a more accepted thought, and applied on a global scale.

So, it is what happened after... and the decisions that followed it, that became a mistake after mistake after mistake.