Posted by kcchongnz > 2017-06-11 22:14 | Report Abuse

Posted by stockmanmy > Jun 11, 2017 09:45 PM | Report Abuse
argue no point, kc
if you try to convince people that for a $ 2 billion IPP, the cashflow projections shows no money to make....provided the project is completed on time and according to schedule........no one will believe you.
the truth is...it is very profitable.

How much was Mudajaya's power plant project in India? How much did they make?

"Provide the project is completed on time and according to schedule"

Completed already ah? On schedule ah? When did Jaks first got the project?

"profitable"? How profitable?

Actually you still have no idea what the issue we are talking about.

It is about if that is so great with an IRR of 12% with all the risks.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-06-11 22:23 | Report Abuse

ks


promise me you will jump down when Jaks cross $ 2 and Sendai cross $ 1.50?

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-06-11 22:28 | Report Abuse

Vietnam is not India
Jaks is not Mudajaya

now...that is definitely business sense, not maths.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2017-06-11 22:32 | Report Abuse

But one thing I can say speculating in Jaks, not investing, may make you money. That is when the naive are brought to buy the notion that accounting profit is something "real" when Jaks books in its construction "profit", taking it from left pocket to right pocket, and back to left pocket again.

This is a likely scenario.

But please don't brag about business sense. It is a speculative sense.

In fact, many have already made profit following the story, and money, when it was less than RM1 just a few months ago. No argument about that.

One does money money that way.

But in the future, hard to tell.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2017-06-11 22:37 | Report Abuse

Posted by stockmanmy > Jun 11, 2017 10:28 PM | Report Abuse
Vietnam is not India
Jaks is not Mudajaya
now...that is definitely business sense, not maths.

Doing business doesn't have less problem than India.

Mudajaya,in its hay days, is much much more established and capable than Jaks. Haven't you heard of how many power plants have Mudajaya build? No doubt about it. How many power plants has Jaks built? Jaks can't even smell its fart.

When Mudajaya started its power plant construction, it made huge profit too.

Posted by paperplane2016 > 2017-06-11 22:38 | Report Abuse

Jaks did it badly in almost everything they did

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-06-11 22:45 | Report Abuse

the best part is Jaks just sit back and collect money.

let their partner who has done more power plants than anyone else in the world bring in the cash.......


great business model, great business sense.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-06-11 22:48 | Report Abuse

Jaks $ 2 is less than 6 months away.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2017-06-11 22:53 | Report Abuse

Posted by stockmanmy > Jun 11, 2017 10:45 PM | Report Abuse
the best part is Jaks just sit back and collect money.
let their partner who has done more power plants than anyone else in the world bring in the cash.......
great business model, great business sense.

Oh, Alibaba.

So if the power plant time and cost overrun, the Chinese partner will still pay what was estimated as Jaks profit and cash flows?

So if there is a financial crisis and banks do not lend money any more, the Chinese partner will still pay what was estimated as Jaks profit and cash flows?

So if the Dong falls or inflation spikes, the Chinese partner will still pay what was estimated as Jaks profit and cash flows the same $?

So if the Vietnamese officials demand for more mmoney, the Chinese partner will pay all the extra but still pay what was estimated as Jaks profit and cash flows?

etc.

Great Alibaba

Posted by shortinvestor77 > 2017-06-11 23:13 | Report Abuse

xingquan shows big failure of KYY. It will be more failure. Open big eyes to see.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-06-11 23:57 | Report Abuse

people no business sense, argue no point ....time will tell.

but Jaks and Sendai, will surely perform.

Posted by cheated > 2017-06-12 00:03 | Report Abuse

Why KC dare not talk in ctr thread? Why he only talk in his blog?

Posted by cheated > 2017-06-12 00:08 | Report Abuse

Can trust KSL, J Tiasa? Why never pay dividend? Creative acctg or director eat all the money?

Posted by cheated > 2017-06-12 00:09 | Report Abuse

Latest U ranking out. USM far worse than UM.

Posted by stockraider > 2017-06-12 09:31 | Report Abuse

People still trying very hard to discredit KC bcos they feared kc is a threat to their intended share manipulation loh...!!

Yes...an educated investors with good fa insight would have spotted Jaks is a lemon in the making loh...!!

Learn from fgv....u can see similiarity to jaks loh...!!
A company....which only can talk only future promise....with no fa performance....do not deserve ur attention or investment loh..!!
Don make the mistake of the past loh...!!
U must value the company using FA to decide whether got margin of safety mah....!!

Remember business sense & financial sense are together n complement each other loh...!!
Financial sense must be right then business sense or business sense is right then financial sense loh...!!

Remember a sound & sustainable investment u must both settle for both financial and business sense b4 it qualify loh...!!

Not just shouting business sense...business sense without financial sense, like some jokers are doing loh...!!

Posted by stockraider > 2017-06-12 09:32 | Report Abuse

People still trying very hard to discredit KC bcos they feared kc is a threat to their intended share manipulation loh...!!

Yes...an educated investors with good fa insight would have spotted Jaks is a lemon in the making loh...!!

Learn from fgv....u can see similiarity to jaks loh...!!
A company....which only can talk only future promise....with no fa performance....do not deserve ur attention or investment loh..!!
Don make the mistake of the past loh...!!
U must value the company using FA to decide whether got margin of safety mah....!!

Remember business sense & financial sense are together n complement each other loh...!!
Financial sense must be right then business sense or business sense is right then financial sense loh...!!

Remember a sound & sustainable investment u must both settle for both financial and business sense b4 it qualify loh...!!

Not just shouting business sense...business sense without financial sense, like some jokers are doing loh...!!

Posted by CharlesT > 2017-06-12 09:34 | Report Abuse

Posted by stockmanmy > Jun 11, 2017 11:57 PM | Report Abuse

people no business sense, argue no point ....time will tell.

but Jaks and Sendai, will surely perform.

The one with super biz sense bought Xinquan all the way from Rm1 to RM0.03 till the stock suspended and faced total loss

Posted by Hua Joshuaayoung > 2017-06-12 15:24 | Report Abuse

In Bursa, mgmt is much important than market sense. to buy in govt. link stocks must be very be careful... and freaking china stocks. !!

Posted by Jay > 2017-06-12 21:47 | Report Abuse

reading the article and comments trigger some thoughts

1. most of those who kept talking about biz sense has no idea what it means. if all business owners have biz sense we wouldn't see so many loss-making companies in Bursa. as investors have limited info and access to mgmt, the tried and tested way to gauge a management's quality is still through their qualification and track record.

2.investing (FA) vs trading (TA) has existed as long as investing has been around. I have seen practitioners of both disciplines done well so I'm not against either approach but one should not mistake one for another. kc is clearly talking about FA here but many others keep talking TA with "biz sense" as disguise.

3.many still cannot differentiate between investing/trading or stock price vs value. Some companies are suitable for long term investing while some just for short term trading. and rubbish companies don't turn good just bcos the share price went up, vice versa.

4. if you trade on a rubbish stock which price went up and you exit with a profit, congrats as you time the market right this round. repeat the trading enough times without clear risk reward management plan, you would soon join the herd who keep complaining that stock market is just a lie that cheat people's hard earned money

5. the most difficult thing about stock returns is not about how high % return, but consistency. why warren buffett is regarded as the greatest investor when he only generates slightly above 20% return a year? many in any investing competition would have beaten buffett hands down this year but can they repeat this return over 50+ years? gaining 50% a year and losing 50% the next year actually gives you 25% loss whereas someone who makes 10% a year would have made 21% return

in summary, kc is trying to teach the youngsters nowadays about long term fundamental investing principles but most are just interested in making a quick buck in the next week or month.

to kc, I share your experience. sometimes pointing out a lemon does makes lemon owners irritated. but as long as someone learns something or save him/herself from that lemon after reading your article, that would make it worthwhile. cheers

Posted by VenFx > 2017-06-12 21:50 | Report Abuse

Even Robert Kuek the most respectable Chinese Tycoon also pay huge losses from Dr. M's proxy Ling who was as the Transmile Board members.

Wondering if Kc did do a cover for this Lemon ?
Hooe to learn something from that article if any.

Posted by Frank Soweto > 2017-06-13 03:41 | Report Abuse

Very well said jay. This year especially many 'Siifus ' made very good returns due to the bullish mart whether it's business sense, dynamite sense,goreng sense,tikaming sense etc so bound to see some 'sifus ' shouting on their returns n most of these siiputs when mart turns bearish will be no where to be seen for sure lol.
Kc has been very good at spotting longkang shares n sharing with us here for many years - one of them most famous was and still is General's KNM n till today at the all time low some braveheart still delusionally hoping for miracle despite many years of General Lee's antics.
Some jokers also making fun of his ' meager' return of 20+% in 6 months lol - honestly I'll be very happy to make 10% every year lol. Yep the key word is consistency.

Posted by king36 > 2017-06-13 05:51 | Report Abuse

I agree w u. KC sifu taught me a lot through his threads. TQ KC.
TQ JAY - for your explanations above - good to take those remarks. Please do come in more often.

Jay ...in summary, kc is trying to teach the youngsters nowadays about long term fundamental investing principles but most are just interested in making a quick buck in the next week or month.

to kc, I share your experience. sometimes pointing out a lemon does makes lemon owners irritated. but as long as someone learns something or save him/herself from that lemon after reading your article, that would make it worthwhile. cheers

Posted by CKCS > 2017-06-13 10:02 | Report Abuse

STILL THIS STOCKRAIDER COCK-TALKER DARE TO CONTINUE HIS SMALL COCK STORIES PREACHING? ALREADY LOSE 9 MILES IN EVERGREEN.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-06-13 12:35 | Report Abuse

business sense means buy Jaks and buy Sendai................
re recent troubles with Saudi


we must understand Qatar is a creditor country, politically stable, little trade with its neigbors, main income from selling gas to Far East, Euro.

and Sendai can get more jobs as a percentage.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-06-13 12:36 | Report Abuse

business sense means buy Sendai....new high on new troubles is sure buy.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2017-06-13 14:26 | Report Abuse

Posted by stockmanmy > Jun 13, 2017 12:35 PM | Report Abuse
business sense means buy Jaks and buy Sendai................
re recent troubles with Saudi
we must understand Qatar is a creditor country, politically stable, little trade with its neigbors, main income from selling gas to Far East, Euro.
and Sendai can get more jobs as a percentage.


Oh, that is "business sense"!
Must have "recent trouble"!
Must have "little trade with neighbors"
Main income must be "selling gas"

But why "Sendai can get more jobs as a percentage.?

A great "business sense", from an 'accountant".
A great "dynamite" investor,
A great "panic moment"

What a great education on "Business sense"!

Keep it up, "Accountant"!

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-06-13 14:45 | Report Abuse

kc

business sense is the ability to handle risk. Maths teacher cannot handle risk, better buy FD.

business sense knows why the bet, what is the bet, the odds, the rewards, the risk...maths teacher is like tikus, comes with the territory. ...but please don't buy Fibon.....there is no way to assess the risk of a listed company that only generates $1 million revenue a month...and don't even have any unique selling propositions.

84 years old maverick don't drive Rolls Royce because he is merely lucky, it lasted for decades, there is more than luck factor here.

There is some thing for ambitious young men to learn here.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2017-06-13 15:02 | Report Abuse

Posted by stockmanmy > Jun 13, 2017 02:45 PM | Report Abuse

kc

business sense is the ability to handle risk. Maths teacher cannot handle risk, better buy FD.

ME: FIRST THING, ONE MUST KNOW WHAT RISKS ARE, RECOGNIZE RISK FIRST, UNDERSTAND IT, MINIMIZE IT, HANDLE IT OR AVOID IT. DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA AT ALL WHAT RISKS ARE ENTAILED IN SENDAI AND JAKS?

I SAY YOU CANNOT EVEN UNDERSTAND WHAT RISKS IS IN INVESTING.

business sense knows why the bet, what is the bet, the odds, the rewards, the risk...maths teacher is like tikus, comes with the territory. ...but please don't buy Fibon.....there is no way to assess the risk of a listed company that only generates $1 million revenue a month...and don't even have any unique selling propositions.

ME: TELL US IN CLEAR EXPLANATION; WHY THE BET? WHAT IS THE BET? WHAT ARE THE ODDS AND REWARDS, WHAT THE RISKS ARE ECT. IN YOUR BETS?

DON'T JUST SAY SOME VERY VAGUE THINGY.

84 years old maverick don't drive Rolls Royce because he is merely lucky, it lasted for decades, there is more than luck factor here.

ME: OH, YOUR "BUSINESS SENSE" IS JUST PLP, AND NOTHING ELSE.I BET YOU HAVE NOT THE FAINTEST IDEA WHAT OTHER HAD GONE THROUGH.

WHAT A GREAT RUNNER WITH THIS 'BUSINESS SENSE"?

There is some thing for ambitious young men to learn here.

ME: HA HA HA HA. I SAY, YOUNG MEN WHO WISH TO HAVE A GOOD OUTCOME FINANCIALLY IN LIFE, AVOID THIS "BUSINESS SENSE' FROM THIS SNAKE OIL SALESMAN, AT ALL COST.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-06-13 15:06 | Report Abuse

kc

Jaks from $ 1.00 now, $ 1.50...
Sendai from 50 sen , now $ 1.08

ok...that is the past...

when Jaks crosses $ 2.00
Sendai crosses $1.50.......you retire? stop misleading ambitious young people?

Posted by Alphabeta > 2017-06-13 15:10 | Report Abuse

AmCham is an independent association of companies with the objective of promoting trade and investment between Vietnam and the U.S. With two chapters, one in Ho Chi Minh City and one in Hanoi, our membership of 700 companies and 1,500 representatives is unified by a commitment to promote trade and investment between Vietnam and the United States.

http://www.amchamvietnam.com/2017-update-on-foreign-mega-investment-projects-in-vietnam/

Items 10, 13, 17 & 21 are related to Thermal Power Plants in Vietnam.

(Jaks is the most expensive among the pack for in term of capacity, risk of delay and cost escalation from the initial announced investment are common). Good Luck to business sense.

10) $2.26 billion Jaks Hai Duong thermal power plant

The 25-year BOT 2×600 MW project by Malaysian company Jaks Resources Bhd. was licensed in 2011. Preliminary construction work on the project has already started, with the land clearance and boundary walls completed.

In July 2015, Jaks Resources Bhd. inked agreements with China Power Engineering Consulting Group Co., Ltd. to jointly develop the plant through a 50:50 joint venture.

The project’s construction was kicked off in March 27, 2016. Since then, there was no progress. By the end of 2016, the Hai Duong People’s Committee was trying to find ways to urge the developer to continue with the project but there is no new development as of now.


13) $2.018 billion Vinh Tan 1 Thermal Power Plant in Binh Thuan

Licensed in 2013, the BOT plant is an investment of a consortium of two Chinese companies and Vietnam National Coal-Mineral Industries Holding Corporation Ltd. (Vinacomin). The plant is part of Vinh Tan Thermal Power Complex, which consists of four projects with a total capacity of 5,600 MW. This is the country’s largest coal-fired thermal power plant.

While Vinh Tan 1, 3, and 4 remain under construction, Vinh Tan thermal plant 2 has started operation in January 2014.

The operation of the plant sparked strong opposition from residents in the surrounding area on account of potential pollution hazards. Due to strong coastal winds, Vinh Tan Thermal Plant 2 is obscured by fumes and dust, despite efforts to regularly irrigate the area, as required by local authorities.
In April last year, thousands of people blockaded National Highway No. 1A, stopping traffic for hours to complain about coal dust and cinder from the power complex, especially the newly built Vinh Tan No 2.

The Binh Thuan People’s Committee urged the power complex management board to stop all executive work when wind speed reaches above level 8 (88 km per hour).
At the end of 2016, Binh Thuan authorities stopped Vinh Tan 1 from pouring 1.5 million cubic metres of waste into the sea. As of January 2017, people living nearby still complained about the coal dust and cinder from the plant whenever wind blows heavily.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Vinh_Tan_power_station

17) $2.018 billion Duyen Hai 2 thermal power plant in Tra Vinh

Licensed in 2015 by Malaysian Janakuasa (Malaysia), the Duyen Hai 2 thermal power project is going to be built in a BOT format.

The project has two turbines with a total capacity of 1,200 MW. Construction is going to start in the second quarter of 2016.

The plant, which is expected to go on stream before 2020, will be one of the four thermal power plants in Duyen Hai Power Centre. The remaining plants, representing a $6 billion investment by Electricity of Vietnam Group (EVN), are Duyen Hai 1, Duyen Hai 3, and Duyen Hai 3 extension.

Once completed, the power centre will contribute to the national power grid an additional capacity of 30 billion kWh annually.

On August 3, 2016, the Malaysian investor broke ground for this project.

21) $2 billion Nghi Son 2 Thermal Power project in Thanh Hoa

Nghi Son 2 was the first international tender for a large-scale coal-fired power plant in Vietnam. The project is going to be carried out under the build-operate-transfer (BOT) format. The $2-billion plant will be located in the province’s Nghi Son Economic Zone. It will have a capacity of 1,200 MW, produced by two 600 MW units.

In November 2016, the consortium of Japanese company Marubeni Corporation and Korea Electric Power Corporation (Kepco) signed with the Ministry of Industry and Trade the investment agreement for the project.

As of the end of 2016, the consortium was awaiting the investment certificate and was arranging the finances for the project. Though the ground-breaking ceremony was held in September 2015, the project has yet to secure a range of agreements to complete the BOT contract package.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Cong_Thanh_power_station

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-06-13 15:24 | Report Abuse

Firstly...it is a US$ 1.87 1.2GW project....making it the lowest among the approved IPP project.


This is a 30%/70% JV (US$ 1.87 billion project) between Jaks and China Power Engineering Consulting Group Co Ltd (CPECC) for the BOT ( Build Operate Transfer) of 2 X 600 Megawatts Coal Powered Electricity Plant in Vietnam.

finally...the project is progressing well, according to plan and schedule.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-06-13 15:27 | Report Abuse

AMCham is American Chamber of Commerce....it is a biased group for promoting American interests.

Posted by Alex > 2017-06-13 15:28 | Report Abuse

how come lemon can go up? =(

Posted by kcchongnz > 2017-06-13 15:30 | Report Abuse

Posted by stockmanmy > Jun 13, 2017 03:06 PM | Report Abuse

kc

Jaks from $ 1.00 now, $ 1.50...
Sendai from 50 sen , now $ 1.08

ME: WHEN SOMEONE APPEARS TO BE RICH, AND MONEY HAS NO VALUE AT ALL TO HIM, HE CAN BUY A ILLIQUID STOCK FROM RM1.00 TO RM1.75. THAT IS COMMON SENSE THAT YOU AS AN 'ACCOUNTANT", FAILED TO UNDERSTAND. OR RATHER UNDERSTAND, BUT PREFER TO BE AN ACCOMPLIANCE, OR A RUNNER. POOR YOU.

ok...that is the past...

when Jaks crosses $ 2.00
Sendai crosses $1.50.......you retire? stop misleading ambitious young people

I RETIRE? I RETIRED 20 YEARS AGO FROM ENGINEERING AND WENT TO NZ TO ENJOY MY LIFE ALREADY LOH.

RETIRING FROM TEACHING PEOPLE THE 'RIGHT PATH' IN INVESTING? YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO THE INVESTING COMMUNITY, UNLIKE YOUR JUST BARKING HERE AND THERE, WITH HUGE NEGATIVE VALUE TO THE YOUNGSTERS.

CAN JAKS CROSSED RM2.00 AND SENDAI RM1.50. VERY LIKELY IF THE THERE IS NO MAJOR CRISIS. IT IS NOT EASY TO PAKAT, I BELIEVE, IT HAS BEEN GOING ON, TO JACK UP JAKS SHARE PRICE, ESPECIALLY FOR PEOPLE WHOSE MONEY HAS NOT MUCH VALUE EXCEPT TO BOAST UP EGO.

SO WELL DONE 'ACCOUNTANT' AND YOUR 'BUSINESS SENSE'.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2017-06-13 15:34 | Report Abuse

But don't forget, when there is a problem (out of scores of potential problems) surfaces, or an economic or financial crisis, or just high inflation, devaluation of Dong etc., with the huge bet with huge leverage, I bet Jaks will fall like a Niagara Falls, and nobody can stop it.

Posted by CharlesT > 2017-06-13 15:58 | Report Abuse

1) Pahang Consolidated -H (Holland) factor (total loss of 30M+???)
2) Xinquan -H (Holland) factor (total loss of 60M+??)
3) JAKS - H or X Factor ?? (RM200M+ inside)

No prize for those who made a correct guess...sorry

Posted by CharlesT > 2017-06-13 16:01 | Report Abuse

For those who follows him, L (Luck) Factor is very important if u simply hentam

Posted by Jonathan Keung > 2017-06-13 16:01 | Report Abuse

do your homework and see what risk you can accept. buying trading stocks are different from holding dividend counters. penny stocks have their own players. play big win (loss) big. rich assets counters tend to be slow moving. you hold 2 -3 years not necessary equal profit. your holding hosts ??? sometimes we are trapped in asset rich counters. there are plenty property counters who fall into this category

Posted by Alphabeta > 2017-06-13 16:03 | Report Abuse

Another potential problem is the lack of investment by Vietnam into Coal Mines.

Vietnam is going ahead with plans to build a new coal-fired power plant despite experts’ warnings over the nation’s coal depletion and the dangers of depending on imported fuel.

Energy analyst Dr Nguyen Tien Chinh has advised that Vietnam is taking a risk in setting up new thermal power plants without clear sources of coal supply, news outlet Vietnam.net reports.

The nation’s domestic coal production has been falling below government targets, and the government announced that it would consider adjusting its plan for coal imports to begin earlier and import more. Vietnam Energy Association chair Tran Viet Ngai said at the time that the nation would likely begin importing coal in early 2015, two years ahead of schedule.

"It's not easy for Vietnam to increase its coal output now, given that production cost is higher while there hasn't been sufficient investment in the coal mining sector," Ngai said in an interview with the Wall Street Journal. "We now have to dig deeper to get coal and importing is inevitable."

Vietnam face the same problem as India, coal production falling behind and imported coal too costly. Another issue is the investment in the power distribution network may affect the off-take of electricity. Mudajaya 26% interest Power plant in India is facing delayed and cost overrun. Risk of construction progress & cost escalation is one part, interest & currency risks, and finally risk of capacity off-take.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-06-13 17:17 | Report Abuse

Business sense...Jaks has the best location, coal coming from up stream by barge. coal mine being just up stream from plant.

and Jaks not even a pioneer.....US$ 2 billion for 1.2 GW plant is fair and normal, the agreements comes with adjustments for coal price fluctuations, just like YTL.

other US$ 2 billion plant already online and profitable.

it is national interest of Vietnam that Jaks succeeds and national electricity plan succeeds.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-06-13 20:19 | Report Abuse

kc

you don't like word business sense? How about instinct?

How to develop killer instinct? Killer instinct to enable one to drive Rolls Royce.

learn by observing maverick.



.

Posted by Icon8888 > 2017-06-13 20:25 | Report Abuse

Koon's attack dog is out to attack KC again

Whether KC right or wrong doesn't matter, just attack

Then master will be happy and throw him a bone

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-06-13 20:50 | Report Abuse

icon

I think it is good ambitious young men learn how a maverick operates. How to have a chance at Rolls Royce, enough of math teacher that goes no where.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-06-14 09:35 | Report Abuse

Sendai rally shows how important improving earnings is to share price.

Successful investors have the killer instinct whenever such opportunities present itself.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-06-14 09:49 | Report Abuse

the interactions between world news and successful investors is a subject far more interesting , far more rewarding than maths teacher.

not easy to teach or to learn....some calls it business sense. Or instincts.

but can starting the lesson using Sendai as case study.

Posted by soojinhou > 2017-06-14 20:32 | Report Abuse

Unbelievable, there's more stocknanny's post than anyone else's in this thread, and probably in the entire i3 forum.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-06-15 11:46 | Report Abuse

learn to be Rolls Royce investors

better than Proton Saga investors.

Posted by CKCS > 2017-06-20 09:13 | Report Abuse

stockraider lose until pokai in Evergreen. No one will believe the loser lol

Posted by CKCS > 2017-06-20 09:14 | Report Abuse

stockraider lose until pokai in Evergreen. No one will believe the loser lol

Posted by enning22 > 2017-07-11 15:36 | Report Abuse

just say bad management and corruption at high place resulted in business failure, sumed it up all the long-winded story.