Posted by boonwei98 > 2020-05-29 08:09 | Report Abuse

Thank you for your sharing. It makes plenty of sense to me.

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > 2020-05-29 08:11 | Report Abuse

Join me on telegram tme/philipcapitalmanagement and have a fun discussion . Don't forget to share your stock picks. We huat together!

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > 2020-05-29 08:17 | Report Abuse

One of the biggest proponents of value investing in i3 is kcchongnz. During his recent interview he put a very Graham like comment, " as long as you don't lose money, than any other outcome is good". But he gets upset each time I try to get him to show his portfolio like all the other superinvestors do who write books. His goal of not losing money is so strong that the loss of opportunities become apparent in the way he responds. I think that happens also to many "value investors" out there, who don't know the business that they are buying, the environment and the long term prospecrs, but only look at financials.

I may not have a master of finance or a financial planner license, but I do think about business far more than I think about making money.

Posted by stockraider > 2020-05-29 08:46 | Report Abuse

THIS PHILIP TALK LIKE SOHAI LOH...!!

IF SO EASY LIKE PHILIP SAY IN INVESTMENT WITHOUT CONSIDERATION OF RISK LIKE HE SAYS, WHY PHILIP, DON GO AND BORROW FEW MILLION ON MARGIN AND GO N WALLOP THE MARKET LEH ??

THE KEY IS THAT, THERE IS A RISK ELEMENT MAH...!!

WARREN BUFFET SAYS THE KEY 1ST RULE IS NOT TO LOSE MONIES AND KC IS RIGHT IN ADOPTING THE RIGHT BUFFET CONSERVATIVE PRINCIPLE MAH..!!

I THINK KC IS APPROACH IS A SAFER AND BETTER TECHNIQUE TO IMPART TO INVESTORS MAH...!!

AFTER ALL KC ALREADY RETIRE AND COMFORTABLE, WHY WANT TO LISTEN TO SOHAI PHILIP RECKLESS SUGGESTION LEH ??

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > May 29, 2020 8:17 AM | Report Abuse

One of the biggest proponents of value investing in i3 is kcchongnz. During his recent interview he put a very Graham like comment, " as long as you don't lose money, than any other outcome is good". But he gets upset each time I try to get him to show his portfolio like all the other superinvestors do who write books. His goal of not losing money is so strong that the loss of opportunities become apparent in the way he responds. I think that happens also to many "value investors" out there, who don't know the business that they are buying, the environment and the long term prospecrs, but only look at financials.

I may not have a master of finance or a financial planner license, but I do think about business far more than I think about making money.

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > 2020-05-29 08:51 | Report Abuse

Do you even look at my portfolio? I put a note inside for every margin loan transaction leh. I am around 38% margin now. What you talking?

Your INSAS and QL now huge huge lead, get ready to treat Bak kut teh. I plan to bring all the kids from seri mengasih orphanage. Dec 31 2021 2 year bet don't forget ah?

QL - rm10 now ( from 6.9)
INSAS - 0.58 now ( from 0.69)

After 2 years... Who talk like sohai?

Please don't hide ya, Bak kut teh time and make the orphans sad.

>>>>>>>>

stockraider THIS PHILIP TALK LIKE SOHAI LOH...!!

IF SO EASY LIKE PHILIP SAY IN INVESTMENT WITHOUT CONSIDERATION OF RISK LIKE HE SAYS, WHY PHILIP, DON GO AND BORROW FEW MILLION ON MARGIN AND GO N WALLOP THE MARKET LEH ??

Posted by EngineeringProfit > 2020-05-29 08:54 | Report Abuse

All stocks are bad, except the ones that run bullish

Posted by Sslee > 2020-05-29 09:06 | Report Abuse

Good morning Philip,
May I ask was companies like renong, aokam perdana and transmile a net assets, huge margin of safety companies? They look like gambling stocks rather than anything worth investing in?

What are assets? Goldeye said non-current assets like land, property, goodwill, PPE and etc are illiquid assets and can be considered as liabilities. Only liquid assets are considered as real margin of safety assets.

I agreed with you on family owned company where first generation work hard to build the company and second generation just try their best to maintain the company.

The questions of third generation (most are well educated) would they like to work hard or work smart? If they work smart they can hire the right people for the right jobs and hence grow the company without them working very hard.

QL is still first generation company will the company still be the same when come to second generation?

Posted by qqq33333333 > 2020-05-29 09:07 | Report Abuse

it also means business sense as front and center, not business sense as a foot note.

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > 2020-05-29 09:18 | Report Abuse

Ql and yinson are 2nd generation success stories.

Aokam had 1000 acres of producing timber valued at 10% the market value selling at crazy prices to Europe and Japan.

As for renong,
https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB885153708408176000

https://www.theedgemarkets.com/article/special-report-truth-2001-sale-renonguem-finally-coming-out-0

3 billion in options contracts liquid enough for you? Supposedly Guaranteed payment?

Transmile major shareholder and founder was Robert kwok, a very smart investor.

I think on hindsight it is very easy to make fun of my past mistakes in investing based on value investing methodology. But if you were investing in those days, you would not know how to spot lemons. With fabricated accounts, fake and hidden money, and sudden losses out of left field, I find the correlations of sudden losses and Winfield holdings dubious " liquid assets" very worrying.

I think in the end you will learn the same lessons as me, except I learned them in my 30s.

>>>>>>>

QL is still first generation company will the company still be the same when come to second generation?

Posted by qqq33333333 > 2020-05-29 09:34 | Report Abuse

looking at the environment, diversified portfolios is not compounding growth. It is holland.

The law of average works against all diversified portfolios.

Posted by Sslee > 2020-05-29 09:36 | Report Abuse

Dear Philip,
I am definitely not making fun on your past mistakes. I just want to clarified the liquid asset are equities(quoted stocks), fixed income (bonds) and cash equivalent are to be considered as margin of safety assets.

Nowadays the easy ways to game the system are purchase of inflated PPE, inflated revenue with huge receivable and announcement of huge contracts win.

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > 2020-05-29 09:40 | Report Abuse

Dear Sslee,

Is buying Xinquan for their 1 billion cash a good margin of safety? If that is your analysis then my mistake was even worse, securities commission, government and Dr mahathir personally guarantee to buy back my put option. Blind value investing at it's best.

>>>>>>>>>>

A few months later in January 1998, the Securities Commission, which reported to Anwar, forced Halim to agree to personally buy back the 32.6% block of Renong shares from UEM via a put option that was to be exercisable anytime within 12 months from March 2000, at an agreed price of RM3.1 billion.

Posted by qqq33333333 > 2020-05-29 09:53 | Report Abuse

so Philip was victim of that Aokam scam? That time was heavily promoted by foreign brokers, Credit Lyonnaise.....Teh Soon Seng Era. Sky high price ..went bankrupt, restructured ( Credit Lyonnaise throwing good money after bad) and die again.

Posted by qqq33333333 > 2020-05-29 09:57 | Report Abuse

aokam was investment thesis of that era. Tulipmania prices and collapsed.....and the foot prints of foreign brokers....comparing Aokam with the largest lumber companies of Canada................lol....

Posted by Sslee > 2020-05-29 10:00 | Report Abuse

haha Philip,
So we are now even, I got fooled by the huge bank deposit in China where a reputable Auditor just signed off as been audited and everything in order.

Xingquan AGM minutes: The cash in bank was verified by the external auditors who had obtained confirmation and printed bank balances statements directly from the various banks.

Auditor response with a positive yes when ask explain whether they checked the cash balance in the bank on monthly basis.

Posted by qqq33333333 > 2020-05-29 10:05 | Report Abuse

sslee...............................the money is there....just that the company no more here..............

Posted by qqq33333333 > 2020-05-29 10:14 | Report Abuse

legal loophole, don't file accounts, delisted, forgotten.

Posted by Sslee > 2020-05-29 10:25 | Report Abuse

Haha qqq3,
Your advisor KYY is dtill fighting his Xingquan case with his appointed law firm.

Posted by Lewis Lee > 2020-05-29 10:28 | Report Abuse

Philip , Thanks for valuable value-trap write-ups !
Really learn a lot from that, pls keep it up and share with us your knowledge and experience !

Posted by Kachimachine > 2020-05-29 10:30 | Report Abuse

Thank you philips for sharing. Will join u on telegram

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > 2020-05-29 10:32 | Report Abuse

Yes, so be careful about blond investing, doesn't matter liquid assets or ppe or cash in bank. Everything can be fooled if you don't actually know the business. Like hohup now doing the crown in KK Sabah here. The results is going to be worse than evolve concept mall with imago asianpac on one side and centre point next door and suriawang at the seaside. If look at financials you would think it is wonderful.

But if you scuttlebutt and visit Sabah and talk to locals, they will ask you....

You think this is Bukit Bintang meh?

Posted by Eric963708 > 2020-05-29 10:50 | Report Abuse

i just think maybe i mistake or wrong all depends on their own management n director want to expand their biz or not, mostly Chinese companies 保守, ex like Oriental debt free but it share not so much movement,

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2020-05-29 11:21 | Report Abuse

How long do you wait for a value share to out? There's no easy answer.


Ask raider, the biggest promoter of value traps!

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2020-05-29 11:29 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2020-05-29 11:29 | Report Abuse

It is always preferable to invest in compounders and growth companies than just any bargains or cheap non-quality stocks.



Given a choice:

Choose compounders and growth.

They are always better than lousy companies that are available at low prices.

Those who choose these lousy companies at low price may find many of them not so rewarding.

A few though rewarding, but they will soon realise that this strategy gives limited upsides.

Don't just focus on cheapness.

Always look for great quality growing companies to buy at cheap prices.

Seek out the ones that will give you the 10 baggers in 10 years.

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2020-05-29 11:43 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by bnmacai > 2020-05-29 11:48 | Report Abuse

Good read. thanks.

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2020-05-29 12:00 | Report Abuse

>>>>>


Sslee haha Philip,
So we are now even, I got fooled by the huge bank deposit in China where a reputable Auditor just signed off as been audited and everything in order.

>>>>>



SSLee

Your protection is to stay with QUALITY FIRST, then PRICE.

Posted by qqq33333333 > 2020-05-29 12:10 | Report Abuse

y Sslee > May 29, 2020 10:25 AM | Report Abuse

Haha qqq3,
Your advisor KYY is dtill fighting his Xingquan case with his appointed law firm.
===========

for the red hips, they planned it even before IPO........

for KYY....he is being consistent........he loses in red chips, makes back on gloves.....on simple ideas.....a bit naive u say, but being naive has its advantages...........

Posted by qqq33333333 > 2020-05-29 12:37 | Report Abuse

that raider is one of the worse...............

Posted by David > 2020-05-29 12:39 | Report Abuse

Oriental holdings and Hup Seng industries. Both well run & cash rich companies. I wont call them value traps, but they fit your description of legacy businesses built by founder and next generation sitting on it and not doing much. Good investment for defensive play, but wont excite the growth investors.

Had a chat with Mdm Kerk Chian Tung once about Hup Seng’s long term prospects and about reinvesting the huge pile cash to bring Hup Seng to greater heights instead of giving 100% profits as dividends. Had a very conservative answer.

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > 2020-05-29 12:55 | Report Abuse

Yes, but the key point here is without doing proper scuttlebutt, the value investor in you will just scream BUY! And while you are holding that, you miss out on the topgloves, QLs of the market. Knowing why you lost money is one thing, knowing why you aren't going anywhere is also just as important.

Posted by Sslee > 2020-05-29 13:00 | Report Abuse

Dear all,
For family run business it is very difficult to predict what the next generation will do when they take over the family business. Some go downhill due to family members grueling and fighting each other. Some felt contented as Malaysia/Kampung Champion as their wealth can last them many generations as long as they do not make big mistake. Only those hungers for more success and with ambition to grow the families run business into world champions will strive harder and get all the right people for the right jobs and remake the family company from good to great to wonderful company.

Posted by lkoky > 2020-05-29 13:06 | Report Abuse

good read

Posted by David > 2020-05-29 13:13 | Report Abuse

i finally understood the pikachu analogy after asking my son. quite a useful investing analogy! haha

Posted by qqq33333333 > 2020-05-29 14:51 | Report Abuse

Philip ( buy what you understand) > May 29, 2020 9:40 AM | Report

Is buying Xinquan for their 1 billion cash a good margin of safety? If that is your analysis then my mistake was even worse, securities commission, government and Dr mahathir personally guarantee to buy back my put option.
============

I remember the options but it as also a time of great political and economic upheavals.....and the value of promises by Halim..........

Posted by Sslee > 2020-05-29 16:00 | Report Abuse

Haha qqq3,
Care to explain why your microcap companies Kpower and SCIB outperform Serbadk?

Posted by qqq33333333 > 2020-05-29 16:37 | Report Abuse

but Kpower up on results because nobody got any expectation.............lol.....looks like will continue to out perform serba which certainly has more facts and figures.

nb...Kpower/ SCIB will continue to see increasing revenue/ profits q by q

Posted by qqq33333333 > 2020-05-29 16:45 | Report Abuse

Philip ( buy what you understand) > May 29, 2020 9:40 AM | Report

Is buying Xinquan for their 1 billion cash a good margin of safety? If that is your analysis then my mistake was even worse, securities commission, government and Dr mahathir personally guarantee to buy back my put option.
============

I remember the options but it as also a time of great political and economic upheavals.....and the value of promises by Halim..........or indeed promises to Halim because he is seem by then to be a greedy traitor. Halim was supposed to a nominee of UMNO not owner of those assets., and now refused to do national service when needed.

Posted by qqq33333333 > 2020-05-29 16:54 | Report Abuse

illusion or reality both can make money, its all about character and attitude.

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > 2020-05-29 18:17 | Report Abuse

Philip mental model no. 56.

Pikachu!


>>>>>>>>>>>

David i finally understood the pikachu analogy after asking my son. quite a useful investing analogy! haha
29/05/2020 1:13 PM

Posted by i3lurker > 2020-05-29 18:20 | Report Abuse

if buy cash for cash it is so silly

Exactly same as in Fixed Deposit, you pay RM1.00 and get RM1.00

////Is buying Xinquan for their 1 billion cash a good margin of safety?////