the magic question to ask is, why are people keep borrowing money to them if they cannot show they can generate the cash flow to pay back debt.

unlike jaks here you are posted purely different story. The borrowings are to move forward the EPCC and FPSO construction which is a loan with 18.5 years debt period which provides cashflow ease to yinson. The "window" dressing you should be putting is this.

Yinson orderbook 22b usd. Debt to complete , per FPSO is around 650-800M (since yinson build theirs in China and Singapore), their total debt load is about 5B+ USD.

The main question to ask is IF yinson is able to bring the FPSO to site on time, launch for first oil without problems, and run the contracts properly. If they can for a debt of 5B, with total 10B in financing and debt repayment, they can earn around 22B usd over the lifetime of contracts IF they do not take more projects in the 25 years hence, which i believe they will do (as evidence by solar farm in Peru and India). They are also taking in bids for more FPSO projects.
The loans are defrayed over 18 years, or some as in the perpetual bonds... bond info here for you to read

https://www.marc.com.my/rating-announcements/marc-ratings-assigns-preliminary-rating-of-a-is-to-yinsons-perpetual-sukuk-programme/
https://theedgemalaysia.com/node/708627 <--- they already redeemed 120M usd of bonds raised in 2019

more window dressing for you: Markus Wenker, Yinson Production’s chief financial officer, said, “The bond issue received significant interest from investors and was substantially oversubscribed”.

>>>>
Johnchew5

Hoho Yinson window dressing on QR ended April 2024 n July 2024 :

>QR ended April 2024 , Net Profit RM 203 million- RM 236 million ( increased of Loans n Borrowings) = - RM 33 million.

>> QR ended July 2024 , Net Profit RM 203 million- RM 3,025 million ( increased of Loans n borrowings) = - RM 2,822 million.😱

John, any reason why yinson share price today from 7.5b market cap increase to 8.6b during this period ? how come with all the uncertainty sumitomo group and kawasaki invest USD 50 million into Yinson FPSO? if you want to post "facts" and "figures" at least can be transparent and share full story instead of the perspective you want to display. after the article you shared was done, YINSON share price increased by 15%? something wrong somewhere...


>>>>>>
Johnchew5

This article first appeared in The Edge Malaysia Weekly on June 24, 2024 - June 30, 2024

It is always a concern when a company’s financial accounts are unclear, causing those perusing the document — which would include bankers, creditors, shareholders and investors — to question the numbers. The primary objective of a company’s financial statements is to present a true and fair view of its performance and position.

The statements should minimise ambiguity and be easily digested by users who presumably have a basic understanding of accounting and finance.


It was only earlier this month that oil and gas player Serba Dinamik Holdings Bhd was delisted from Bursa Malaysia, after grappling with accounting issues since May 2021. It had an impressive earnings track record until reporting irregularities eventually surfaced.

As a result of this and other misadventures by a few oil and gas companies, banks are shying away from funding the sector.
However, it came as a surprise that Yinson Holdings Bhd’s (KL:YINSON) latest financial results had caused anxiety and uncertainty among the analysts who cover the company’s stock. After all, with a market capitalisation of close to RM7.5 billion, Yinson is one of the more respected players and among the success stories in the local oil and gas sector.

One research house’s report on Yinson’s financials mentions “Using financial tools to boost equity returns” while a bank-backed research outfit says, “We have stripped off RM151 million EPCIC (engineering, procurement, construction, installation and commissioning) earnings in arriving at our core profit. We believe Street estimates may not be a good comparison as other analysts regard Yinson’s EPCIC earnings as core profit.”

Another research house notes that Yinson’s “IFRS accounting distortion is growing alongside its leverage”, which could lead to confusion among investors.

Although analysts who cover the company’s stock mostly have a positive view of Yinson, the group’s accounting policy or treatment for certain aspects of its operations can be disquieting.

Surely, Yinson can do better with its financial reporting.

Really don't know what is wrong with you, Why keep posting all your Jaks relation items in yinson thread? Really nothing better to do with life but argue with strangers?

>>>>>>>

ago


Johnchew5

Hoho interesting lo , MIDF Research an article on LSS4 with cost RM 2.0 million to RM 2.5 million per 1 MW .. with tender tariff as low as RM 0.14 per kWh .

But it’s research stress on Solar Panel with efficiency 16.7 factor .

Jaks is with cost RM 4.0 million per 1 MW ..

Obviously I meet people like you all the time. Number one at telling people what to do, but never able to show your own ability to actually do something of note in life. Next time before telling people what to do, try looking in the mirror first and see if your results match your "recommendations".

>>>>>
CharlesT

To me, Philip seems to be too obsessed with his portfolio....n others' portfolio here

In short, no portfolio no talk with Philip....U r not qualified

As to why you are not qualified, why listen to rubbish comments on the first place.

Yes and instead of debating maybe you should be honestly asking, did you make or lose money in TG harta or Jaks instead of debating endlessly without a point, maybe showing how you made money trading on the information that you knew is far more important. Instead of posting "facts" and figures here and there, why not show your trading results, maintain a portfolio and show that you actually make money in stock market seems to be a far better use of your time instead of debating.. if you can't even maintain a respectable CAGR you are no different from Charles and sslee and is ALL talk no results kind.

FYI you can see my entire 5.9 year history of trades in my portfolio holdings and see if I make or lose money in stock market.


>>>>>>

11,339 posts

Posted by Johnchew5 > 6 hours ago | Report Abuse

Haha the difference on Top 4 list screenshot as you posted … not the individual stock list …

And on Harta , you promoted on early 2022 at RM 5.80 .. saying u knew the cost ! And I said ASP shl be bottoming after March 2022 …

And said I had posted Top Glove TP RM 3.40 on 4/12/2020 , ard 2 weeks earlier than JPM TP RM 3.50 ,after posted the Demand vs Supply study of 7 local nitrile glove manufacturers on August 2022

That's not really the question to ask. The question to ask is if yinson has the capability to pay back the loan based on the fpso earnings, and more importantly if the lenders are willing to lend to yinson and believe in their ability to pay.


>>>>
Posted by CharlesT > 4 hours ago | Report Abuse

https://www.yinson.com/highlights/YP-USD-1.035-billion-senior-secured-notes-to-refinance-FPSO-Anna-Nery/

The notes are fully amortising with a maturity of 18.2 years and were priced at a fixed coupon of 8.947%, payable semi-annually starting on 31 July 2024.

Coupon rate 8.947%...

Why issued at such a high rate?

Either the management is very smart to predict RM will be strengthen in years to come so they could pay less when they redeem their Bond then.....or mkt rated the bond as junk bond class?

And speaking of negative news, yinson selling 11% stake for 59m USD to Japanese investors.

https://themalaysianreserve.com/2024/10/22/yinson-production-completes-sale-of-minority-stake-in-fpso-anna-nery-to-k-line/

Hartalega or topglove? I sold topglove making good profit long time ago, started buying hartalega when the price became cheap. If you need to make negative comment at least make sure of your data.

>>>>>
Johnchew5

Haha Top 4 list screenshot ard March 2021

21/4/2024

QL 6.15 4.79 ROE : 14.88 DY : 1.36%

Top Glove 5.32 1.05
ROE : - 11.23 DY : 0

Yinson 5.35 2.77
ROE : 10.24 DY : 1.81 %


Pchem 8.17 5.69
ROE : 4.36 DY : 2.64 %

would it be possible to stop polluting this thread on YINSON with petty comments on other things, other stocks, and other stuff that has zero relation to YINSON. why?

no one can time the market, all you can control is being right/wrong. Unlike those who stuck in insas for multiple years without much returns, i have made TONS of money being right on topglove, and now being right on harta also good
>>>>>

Sslee

Aiyoyo,
Did Mike-tikus know Philip sold his Top Glove too early from 23-March 2020 at RM 6.20 all the way up to 10.20 by 15 May 2020?

Me and CharlesT have a field day making fun of Philip for selling Top Glove just a little bit too early.

So what is Mike-tikus talking about Top 4 list screenshot ard March 2021?

What is your interest in debating? We are here to make money. You can look at my portfolio that I maintained in this website since 2019 and can see my results in holding good stocks and making growth over time. CAGR now at 17% after 5 years plus, you have thousands of posts I challenge you to post your portfolio online to see if your performance is matching your comments. I doubt your return is any good if all you do is debate and argue all day. Grow up

https://www.iss-shipping.com/advisories/brazil-ends-national-strike/

John why are you hiding info and just displaying what you want to say instead of putting all information at play. We are in this to analyze info and make informed decision, please stop making up fear mongering stories. The Brazil strike already ended since September, and now the regulators are in the midst of catching up giving the approvals to begin hookup. Fpso Atlanta is already safely at site and properly hooked up. Once the approvals are complete, first oil will be imminent and charter rate will start.

Fyi the debt is already in the midst of reduction as yinson already selling certain fpso rights to investor who are only interested in coming in once first oil and charter confirmed.
>>>>>

Johnchew5

Hoho as usual no facts n figures!🤣

28 minutes ago

those who have it early wont complain, those without foresight sure complain. like those who complain QL price too high for last 4 years, but those who bought 4 years ago still enjoying increasing revenue and earnings and growing NTA...
>>>>>>
Sslee

If SBB push share price to sky high how am I going to collect at low price and sell high?

Im not sure what you mean, I bought yinson when it was a 1 billion dollar company, now grow to 8 billion dollar company, which is worth around 2 bil usd market cap, with order book of 22 billion usd in incoming revenues that will be secure once we have completed first oil. Expect to have increase in earnings revenue and debt pare down by january next year onwards, as we are also expecting another earlier than expected delivery for their FPSO... how many power plants do you know are delivered and start generating power earlier than expected?

>>>>

MiaoMiao7

I dont like SBB too. I think the market has spoken, the only way for the share price to go up is to reduce the debt. winning projects, completing them or having higher earnings does not move the stock price. Take care of the FCF.

SBB for undervalued company not only support price, but actually increase earnings per share and revenue per share, making my shares that much more valuable.

first they complain debt too high, then they complain low dividend, then they complain share buy back. what else will people complain about? one thing for sure this is not like jaks where rights issue until no amount of earnings become worth it.

>>>>
Sslee

You need money/borrowing to build FPSO and solar power plant.
I do not have complain on borrowing but why Company do SBB to support price?

Company should not do SBB to support price, let Mr.Market determine the price as I am still waiting to collect more Yinson below Philip price

OldWiseMan100

wait until hair already white....

>>>>>>

That is because you expect power plants and fpso to go into production easily like magic when the fact is... This is a difficult endeavor

Almost 6 months earlier than expected

https://brazilenergyinsight.com/2024/10/15/fpso-maria-quiteria-begins-operations-in-the-pre-salt-campos-basin/#more-66360

https://www.upstreamonline.com/rigs-and-vessels/petrobras-starts-pre-salt-production-from-maria-quiteria-fpso/2-1-1724665

Are you still trying to teach me what to do? The dividends and return I am getting from pchem is still much much more reliable and profitable long term versus insas growth. Pchem is still growing and building with a huge cash hoard. I'm still getting big dividends every year from pchem
>>>>>
Sslee

Good to know Philip is alive and kicking.

Quote,"It's not hard to pick a stock, the hard part is knowing how to wait for the fruit to appear" unquote

Remember to havest the fruit. I already harvested most of my Insas but Philip wait too long to harvest his Pchem.

I guess this is what it means buy and hold and wait ooi teik bee. It's not hard to pick a stock, the hard part is knowing how to wait for the fruit to appear

Oh yes definitely.

Definitely,
Definitely,

This mother company puts a smile on my face every day

>>>>>>

SDS has a solid management that focuses to improve the business. This is evident by every quarter growing from strength to strength. SDS strength lies in their low cost / no frills approach in bread and bakery targeting the mass market. They open cafes in smaller towns as competition is lower and able to obtain a good ROI. Just buy and keep for long term investment.

Gob which properties in their sale list?

Share price is always forward looking, when can see road is clear then easy to define price. We as investors must be able to find some form of assurance or clarity from management in their ability to grow earnings and profit

Currently China already giving 10% rebate to their glove manufacturers but still losing money for some reason to malaysia topglove KOSSAN and harta after throwing price. Malaysia glovemaker already smelling that the long term prospects for glove makers are good once the 25% tariff hit and the 10% rebate from China is removed. China production funnily enough is not as efficient as harta and topglove.

My question to you sslee is this, do you buy stocks for what is happening today? Or do you buy stocks for what will happen in the future?

Still trying to convince me to buy insas? If insas is smart they should have used that "1 billion" cash board to buy Nvidia shares and turn it into 10 billion. Haha

Just in case I forget, please someone remind me.

Speculation abounds. But over the last year or so buying harta at the prices of 2.23 I think is a very good buy.
https://klse.i3investor.com/web/portfolio/mypf/120720

OTB,

Watch and your will just miss it. Maria completion is 5 months ahead of schedule, just finished naming rights and now on route to Brazil meaning this year you will have contribution from 2 FPSO with contacts of 500k+ usd per day charter. That means by end of the year, yinson will have 2 "powerplants" up and running, and another one next year. For those who know what to look for, how often does TNB give you a powerplant contract and also advance you the power plant money to construct? Yinson gets this type of advantage. All I can say is, I fully expect yinson to be a 40 billion ringgit company in the next few years.

Then people will complain again why yinson don't bid for more fpso projects...

3 billion cashflow a year mana cari? The key thing is not if they get paid ( especially when oil prices are so high), the key thing is if yinson can complete it's projects on time and on the money. I believe they can, and under budget as well.
>>>>>>>>

OTB

I bought YTLPower in a very big way at 1.10 only, very huge profit now.
I am a bit disappointed with Yinson and Yinson-WA.
I spotted Yinson-WA and YTLPower around 0.70, I bought Yinson-WA instead of YTLPower because all 10 analysts were recommending Yinson. No analyst recommended YTLPower.
Until now, Yinson-WA still cannot perform despite very good net profit reported in Yinson FY 2024 result.
I feel sad because Yinson just cannot perform.
I have studied all FA of Yinson in great details, just cannot understand why the share price of Yinson and Yinson-WA cannot perform.
All effort wasted.
Nothing to write here because the share price in just cannot perform.
Thank you.

https://www.yinson.com/highlights/YP-Naming-Ceremony-FPSO-MQ/

Some bad choices to be made, this year I cut loss of almost 50% on skpress for their reduction in contacts of Dyson that flew over to Vietnam due to lower costs and better supply chain management. I expect to be wrong, but I think for now I will transfer the funds to SDS over the week, bought from 0.72 onwards since 22 until thaipusam. I have good feelings about this little company that is pulling all the right decisions and managing it's growth very very well.

Wah sslee laughing to the bank now!

ALMOST 84% of the company shares is hold by TOP30 shareholders. imagine the company outside share float left how much ? do comment below and let us know.

Doesn't this mean that this microcap also very easy to goreng and pull rug from the balance 20% shareholders?

I am probably one of the largest long term investors in yinson and have been invested since 2012. All I can say is that it is more wise to look at yinson as a cyclical business that takes time to gestate and grow. You can take their initial foray into Vietnam as an example.

1. Get a contract with a clean and clear delivery date and good payment rate which is based on the contract value minus the ship construction cost in China.
2. Make sure that you get some advance to help you pay your way through the construction period where you still own the ship at the end.
3. Borrow money to fund the ship construction.
4. Gestate for the 3-5 years while you complete the fpso.
5. Get a very strong team to keep everything on time and on budget.
6. Get to first oil and keep production high.

From there rinse and repeat.

Yinson has done this very very well over the decade. And they are still keeping to this bread and butter business with good funding.

For me I will never know when the share price will go up, but I bought at a cheap price and will continue to hold as the fundamentals remain intact.

For me I only look at the share price when I'm buying the stock. After that initial buying price I usually monitor more on the performance and cash flow results which is very clear to see in the growing dividends that I will enjoy in the next 5 years. I think since I am less of a trader and more of a collector a business like yinson is more suitable for me to buy compared to many shorter term investment.

To be honest they did borrow a lot of money to commit into fpso works for petrobas projects, and also after you spend so much money to build ship you still need to see collection with Brazil PETRONAS gov. But if Brazil can collect their money, and if they pay yinson on time and within schedule , I'm sure it will work out fine in long term.

Think of yinson in this way, they are a company like ytlpower that is constantly building huge marine structure that generate revenue every day. It takes a lot of effort to get right, but the profits are good and consistent long term.

The reason why yinson "share price" is not moving because people are still taking a wait and see approach on their fpso construction and deployment. These things take time, same as how mfcb share price didn't move until they completed and started making money with their hydro project. If the profits start rolling in and things move forward consistently, then share price will reflect performance.

For me I'm content to wait because I know the yinson team fpso management is very competent. I think when all their billions of debt and deployment start to turn around and generate clean profits, then you will see yinson moving up

>>>>>>>>

OTB

@Philip,
I saw you invested in a big way on Yinson, Yinson is the second largest investment in this portfolio.
Please tell me what is so good about Yinson.
I know the fundamentals of Yinson is good after you take into consideration the future earnings of FPSO Anna Nery, MQ, Atlanta and Agogo.
Do you know that the share price of Yinson just cannot perform despite all ten analysts recommended a buy on this stock ? No hold or sell call on this stock, 100% a buy call.
I want to know your opinion on this stock.
Please advise.
Thank you.

1 week ago

It is interesting how people are very eloquent when it comes to stock analysis but very suspiciously quiet when it comes to stock performance

May I have your track record history of stock pick selection from your latest managed fund sir? I would love to attend but would like to know your track record in these matters in terms of stock selection.
>>>>>>
I will be providing an investment course for the participants who want to learn comprehensive fundamental investing. It is a 2 day training that will be conducted over the weekend that costs RM5,000.

Picked up more sds at 0.61 over the past few days and week

If anything we value academic results for too much over TVET skills. In Germany 60% of education is TVET and on average tvet graduates are paid more. What we need are useful economic skills that can compete on the highest level. Not the ability to write PowerPoint slides or word documents.
Imagine if 50% of our population was engineers, technicians, welders, builders and specialists with skillsets that are of high enough quality that it is in demand the world over. That would be far better than joining any public university.

Take for example a skill like leather craftsman, one of the most in demand and time consuming skills to have which takes lifetimes to master. Look at where it brought jimmy choo.

If you want to paraphrase, then at least complete the full rationalisation.
Firstly, they did not say reject, but the target of the rebalancing is to make sure that the majority who live in rural areas with lack of education mobility to be given preference. This is for all bumiputra, and not specifically malay.

If you think about it bumiputra also include
Sabahan natives
Sarawakian natives
Students from pahang, kelantan, terrengganu and other rural areas.

For your info Mr koon, every year our public intake can only absorb 180k students into public university per year. This is from a list of 403k students that sat the SPM results in 2022. So looking with this list, how do you decide who gets in? If you want to via meritocracy then how can you be fair to ALL Malaysians like anwar says? How would it be fair for students who have to walk 3km to school every day, where teachers travel by boat to class, where teachers are not even keen to go to teach because it is so remote? If we were to compete, is it even a fair competition? The student who has better grades, do we put them ALL in while giving up on the students in the non city towns? Tell me how would that be fair.

In my humble opinion, a doctor coming up from a rural place like kinabatangan or born near the borders of pontianak will have a far more powerful economic effect to their peers and locality than one who was born and raised in ampang center. But one has exposure, the other doesn't in getting grades. So again, who benefits more?

Hmm, for such a short period it would appear to be difficult. But in this case if we are to do short term rises, then I would pick up on hartalega

I3lurker, it is time to realize that no one on i3investors cares what you believe. Time to get a life.

Really? Which Vietnamese firms are getting the orders?

Sold autocount to buy some discount skp stock

James, you recommend so many stocks, if you recommend 100 stocks in bursa, at least 5 or 10 will have a good record. How about you share your current portfolio holdings so we can learn better from you on which stocks that you actually buy versus the stocks that you recommend. Just looking at your shared articles alone seems to show that you have made videos on almost every stock in bursa Malaysia.

Stop doing level 1 investing and start reading deeper. Cash flow positive of 15 million means they are making a profit for the quarter while bluesail and intco losing millions even with 10% rebate and 6% tax incentive from China government. Meanwhile Malaysia instead of giving rebates tax glove companies additional windfall tax on top of the 24%. So for harta to make money is amazing. In top of that the impairment is for closing down the 15 year old inefficient lines while they go ahead with ngc newer faster cheaper more efficient lines which bode well for the long term profitability of the company. Yes they lose 70 million in staff payments for vss, but saves company money in the long term also.

Use level 2 thinking. Share price always go up after restructuring. Even twitter now is finally profitable for the first time in history after Elon fired 80% of unnecessary staff and improved efficiency. Twitter will now be worth even more.
>>>>>>>
curiousq

OMG！！ we must buy counter that make huge loss ：D ：D

12 hours ago

The question you should be asking is if everyone is losing money and negative cash flow only one glove company can have positive cash flow, the question you should be asking is WHY?
and then more importantly, if everyone losing money, and only one company making money it is more important to ask: should I be buying more?

>>>>>>
pang72

I know goreng stock is alive.
Fundamental stock is dead