NTA is a much better indicator of a stock's intrinsic value than cash reserves. Cash doesn't mean much unless the stock has low or negative cash flow, which during this pandemic actually DOES apply to genting, which is why it's being brought up. However, as noted, at this rate of cash burn, Genting could easily survive another 5 years worth of pandemic. So, with vaccinations starting, a few months more of pandemic is NOTHING MUCH.

BTW, guys, tomorrow, take a look at the sell queue for Genting C91. Specifically the sell queue at 0.295... It should reflect our Genting HUAT ONG HENG mood, ROFL!!!

@themeg. Still want to talk about how Genting cash and NTA will drop "significantly"? ROFL!!!

BTW, guys, you can check my posted figures. In case I made calculation error.

As I said, currently, Genting per share has RM6.50 cash and NTA Rm8.56
Top Glove per share has RM0.14 cash and NTA RM0.69

Genting Share price today, RM4.63, TG share price today RM5.30

...

yeah, if you value companies by cash reserves and NTA.... wow, TG has a LOT further to fall, and Genting has a LOT further to rise, lol...
Genting has more than 10x the NTA of Topglove and almost 50x the cash reserves per share. HAHAHAHAHA.

@themeg. Yes, as I stated, this 8.5c dividend is using up Genting's cash reserves and will lower it's NTA.
So, Genting currently has over RM6.50 CASH per share, and NTA RM8.56, after this 0.085 dividend, Genting will have RM6.41 cash per share, and NTA RM8.47 per share.
WOW, how terrible! ROFL!!!

BTW, want to know how much Top Glove cash per share and NTA is?
TG has RM0.14 cash per share, and NTA RM0.69 per share

@Zuliana, I didn't dare to "predict" that Genting would return back to black... as I said, I would have been happy enough if the loses in Q4 were less than Q3 lol.
But I did note that, with the reopening + CPO + other factors, there was a small, small chance of it...
What a pleasant surprise! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!

Oh, also, I'll add something from what I read on the press release for the QR:

RW New York is doing well:

"Since re-opening, RWNYC’s gross gaming revenue had been
approximately the same as that for 4Q19 up until the property limited its operating hours from mid-November 2020 in compliance with the government mandate."

So, yeah, once RWNYC is allowed to fully re-open, we can expect it to be back to it's pre-pandemic level of business!
I notice the same happened for the Singapore casino too...

Not enough data to form a firm conclusion, but... there's a chance that casinos, in general, are going to bounce back to pre-pandemic revenues, soon after they re-open. Which would be SWEET, since even genting management has warned that they are worried about a slow recovery in business after they reopen, but it seems quite possible that business will pick right back up again. (HOPEFULLY)

Even without the vaccine's effect, global covid numbers are dropping rapidly. ... Similiar to, well, similiar to just about every other pandemic in history. At some point, numbers just fall, naturally.

The vaccine arrival at this point in time, will pretty much finish off the pandemic.

@sharefisher. I don't know about 2021 or 2022, but I can say that "when pandemic ends", Genting and ALL the recovery stocks are going to be a lot higher than they are right now... Genting especially so, because, as I said, it wasn't just the pandemic but a whole slew of other factors that caused this ridiculously low price. And all those reasons are soon to be gone, so...

Take note that the 8.5c dividend would have to be fueled by cash reserves instead of profits this quarter, because, well, profits were only 0.65c per share.

Which means that NTA will drop

... from RM8.56 to RM8.47 per share.

AHAHAHA!!! yeah, basically, as I said, Genting Berhad is so asset rich and so cash rich, that they can give out the dividend from their reserve cash, and it barely made a dent in their net assets,
...
As I said elsewhere, if LKT decided to close up Genting Bhd today and sell off all it's assets and fully pay up all it's debts, all the shareholder will get back over RM6, assuming that assets are sold at the steep discount to market value. (Based on market value, if genting closed shop and sold off everything, shareholders would get back RM8.56 ie the NTA)

BTW, if LKT was really really short on money, Genting has enough cash for him to declared dividend of RM6 per share. They probably need that cash for working capital and such though, so that would never happen, BUT, that's how much CASH Genting has stockpiled. (more than RM6 per share cash)

MAN!!! if you look at my previous posts, I did say that there was a CHANCE of breakeven or maybe maybe a small chance of returning to black this QR, but, honestly, I would have been happy with reduced losses compared to Q3.
MWAHAHAHAHAHA!!! managed to actually do it!!! AHAHAHAHA!!!

Feeling happy right now... hehehehe...

@stocksafeplayer. Down from 4.84 to 3.80 and has already reversed back to RM4.66 is not called lau sai lol.
Back when Genting dropped from RM6 to Rm3 was indeed lau sai, let's admit it.

Gloves though... when you don't know when the red lau sai is going to stop, THAT is the true lau sai...

And it all depends on what price you bought in. For those who bought TG at RM1.50 equivalent, whatever happens also they still make money, so no stress... lol... Let's admit it, super unlikely that TG falls back to pre-pandemic price of RM1.50.

@themeg don't worry, we also sold Top Glove shares at RM28 due to positive sentiment! We didn't sell "some" we genting investors sold ALL at RM28.

@stocksafeplayer. Well, as I said, we still have Sinovac news as incoming stimulus... ... ... just wait and see if themeg and 88 family start to post that NPRA will reject the vaccines lol.

GenM back to green too. YAY (even though I went all gent and none genm this round)
(sigh...)

back to 4.70... YAY!!!

@destinyL. Supermax has over 1m support at RM5.
Also... I saw the photos. Muhyiddin's vaccination was done WITH GLOVES. ... so maybe gloves feeling happy about that.

Eh, let's forget gloves and just worry about our own portfolios...

... lol! is market down BECAUSE our PM is ok? ... a LOT of political figures would be so happy if Din died, lots of fellas want to grab his seat lol...

@stockisnotfun. You silly person. I broke ALL my FDs and sai lang Genting and Genting C91 when it dropped to RM4 and below recently... Why you wait for your FD to mature? kekeke...

it's not just genting, everything also crashing. Is muhyiddin ok or not???

what happened. all red. Muhyiddin OK or not???

@destinyL. ... I'm literally autistic (not like WSB autists, I'm ACTUALLY medically certified autist) so I'm not good at reading herd behaviour or market mentality. So I dunno.

But from my point of view:, This 1m doses, is nowhere near enough. So, right now, we really really need the other vaccines to get NPRA approval, delivery, and so on.

Put it another way... if any of these vaccines get REJECTED by NPRA, we are going to have some serious problems. Both for Genting and for our vaccination schedule in general. (except for sinovac from solution, cause it's a tiny order, and their vaccine currently showing only 65% effectiveness, who wants THAT???)

Put it this way. I don't know whether the market has already priced in the upcoming vaccine delivery and approvals, or how much has been priced in, but I can tell you that, the delivery and approvals are VERY IMPORTANT.

TLDR: The next BIG thing for recovery play in Malaysia will be the Sinovac shipment.
1. The arrival of 1st batch on 27th Feb
2. The approval of sinovac vac by NPRA.

#2 is very important, if for some reason sinovac is actually not approved, not just genting but all of Malaysia will be in trouble.

On the other hand, I'm pretty certain it will be approved, and when it is, watch everything FLY.

@stocksafeplayer. Eh, doesn't matter if tomorrow is green or there is profit taking. No worries lol.

In terms of vaccines arriving, this pfizer batch is only 1 million doses in by end of March. And looked how positive market reacted.

You know what's coming in 3 days? Sinovac Vaccine at pharmaniaga. You know how much vaccine is arriving?

"Previously, Pharmaniaga signed an agreement with Sinovac to manufacture two million doses of Covid-19 vaccine developed by China’s Sinovac Life Sciences Co Ltd a month beginning in March.
The agreement is for the supply of 14 million doses of Covid-19 vaccine to be carried out through the fill-and-finish activity."

TWO MILLION DOSES A MONTH. ... that's A LOT.

HOWever... keep in mind: “Sinovac has not yet been registered by NPRA and is still pending approval,” he said.

Well, personally, I am certain that Sinovac is going to be registered and approved, but, eh, it's Malaysia, so i'm not confident in their speed and efficiency in getting it done ASAP.

Anyhow... that's going to be the next big boost to recovery stocks. (especially delicious Genting). ... the arrival and fill and finish starting of Sinovac, Plus the NPRA approval.

Currently, our plan is phase 1, only 500k front line healthcare vaccinated by the end of March or so. ... So, let's not beat around the bush, this Sinovac batch is very VERY important to not just Genting, but the entire economy and well-being of Malaysia. ... 2 million doses every month, for 7 months. ... hopefully, that will also be increased further.

@stocksafeplayer ... from another perspective, RM3 genting was really a once in a lifetime opportunity. Let's look at what happened to push it down that far:
1. Theme Park problem. As revealed now, it was a RM3.5b sunk into it, and it was stuck. That would have been very bad!
2. Global pandemic.
3. Lockdowns. (some pandemics didn't have such lockdowns)
4. Short selling (genting was being highly shorted)
5. Genting was going to be kicked out of KLCI, which would mean ETF sell it off.
6. LKT had pledged a ton of his shares, and there WAS a real danger that he might have gotten margin called and force sell Genting shares.

The theme park had already been negotiated with Fox by the time of covid, but Genting share price hadn't recovered from that scandal yet, so it's included in this list.

Anyhow... yeah, so there were a ton of reasons why genting share price got pressed all the way to RM3

At the moment, most of the above are off the table. #2 and #3 are still WIP, but we clearly are seeing progress on those fronts.

Anyhow, point is... it took a massive combination of bad news to push genting all the way below RM3, and it's unlikely we will ever see so many bad things happen all at once at the same time again to genting. So, yeah, RM3 dreams? Gone.
IMHO? RM4 dreams, also gone now.

#2 and #3 will definitely not be solved overnight. So don't expect too much short term gains? ... but once pandemic is over, all bad news gone, lots of good news incoming, yeah, it's very likely Genting will not only go back to it's normal level of RM8 or so, but will fly to the sky.

the 4.80 queue was not "fake queue" but "joke queue"

Some guy decided that 4.80, he wanted 4 x 8 = 8888 lots.

I guess back when it was 3.80, he queued up 888 lots, lol!!!

Probably removed it once the joke was done. Hahaha very funny...

https://prnt.sc/1057uyx

Some guy is a comedian lol... the queue at 4.80 was.... 888,800 shares.

Cool guy. hahahaha

All the world leaders learnt from America. When Pfizer CEO said he wouldn't cut queue, public was all "obviously it's not safe after all!"... so then Biden went and got jabbed in big public thing, and all the other world leaders did the same, they basically start the ball rolling by saying "look, see, it's good and safe!"

@keyman188. I was discussing on glove forum, and what someone there said makes sense, which is that glove stock prices will be determined by this: "gloves claim that they can sustain these super profits even after pandemic is over, while some people say NO WAY"... so, glove stocks, you can invest in them if you are confident that the claim is true. ... as for me, I don't believe that ASPs will stay high once the pandemic is over. Also, remember... the RICH nations will be vaccinated before the poor nations, so, halfway to the end, glove counters customers will be the poorer countries, cause the rich nations already finished vaccinating. So what sort of ASPs will you expect from that?

"Genting HK in talks with German govt for additional US$600m rescue fund"
Good for LKT, good for GHK, good for genting because it's a bailout by German government, not Genting Berhad! YAY!!!
@stocksafeplayer. Errr... I'm not sure if it's all loans... it's to save a German shipyard from insolvency, AND to keep their german citizens employed, some of it might be outright free money. (like what SIA got from singapore government). The whole "subsidized wages" thing.
Which would be even more pro, dare to ask German government for free money! hahaha!

...
Congratulations for everyone here for making some nice profits, including vanbasten. ... in the end, yeah, you making money on c89, i'm making money on c91, everyone else here making money on Genting mother. ... eh, let's all just happy happy make money together...

And there you go... RM3.4b was pumped into that theme park. So, when that project got stuck due to Fox+Disney trying to pull out, that was pretty substantial! ... the revival of that theme park is huge!

MEH!!! Public Bank is ok, I guess...
But Kenanga is where it's at. TP 5.70, go!

But I like AKT's TP the best, RM9 and RM15... hahaha.

Of course, Genting's earnings and price movement during the pandemic itself are going to be shaky.
But, I don't have to be a genius to make a statement like "buy Genting when the price gets whacked in half during pandemic, and hold it until after pandemic recovery, sure make money"

Come 2025 or so, that statement is going to seem like such a no brainer. lol.

Actually, talking about gloves... Some smart people (not me, I had been out of the market purely into property during that period), said "hey, you know what? Gloves are going to make big profits during pandemic", and they bought TG at RM1.50 equivalent, and made huge money.
And, yeah. TG is obviously worth a lot more than RM1.50, even after the pandemic is over and done with, do RM1.50 TG with the pandemic starting out was also a "wow that was obvious, how did I miss that" hindsight 20/20 moment.

...

Sometimes, there really are low risk, high reward opportunities, that people somehow overlook, and later on turn around and say "actually, that was such an obvious buy, why didn't I take it?"

@dragonboy. ... history? Genting has been over RM9 in the past few years. ... this isn't making history. It's just a bland, boring, return to it's normal pricing. And that would be if it goes back to RM8 or so.
RM5&6 for Genting is just a matter of time... no big deal at all.
It'd be a lot more surprising if Genting didn't go back to RM7-8, actually. (post pandemic, of course)

wait. 75% of revenue in RW LV is supposed to come from live entertainment, instead of gaming??? ... that's... interesting. :O

Not facing the same predicament? Dude, prior to pfizer announcement, Genting was one of the most heavily shorted stocks, it was priced below RM3, and Genting NTA is over RM8... truly a ridiculous bargain. At that price, you could close shop, lelong off all Genting's assets at over 50% discount, and you would get a LOT more than RM3 cash, so that was a real no brainer purchase.
And it got pushed down there partly due to aggresive short selling.
What does being non halal have to do with anything?

But yeah, something weird is going on with JP Morgan. If their TP is RM3.50, why did they not unload their entire position back when TG was RM7? Agreed, that doesn't make a lot of sense.

@agjl, firstly, it's impossible for anyone to take over TG, unless LWC sells his shares, as he just has too many shares for anyone to oust him.
Secondly, if people wanted to buy over TG for cheap, they would have done it in 2018, back when you could buy the entire company for RM10b, or even cheaper. Right now, TG has a market cap of RM47b. So it's almost 5x more expensive to take over it now compared to a few years ago.

Nvm, found it, AffinHwang set TP of 4.20

https://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/ptres/58513.jsp

Man AffinHwang has been releasing an interesting series of analysis lol...

ROFL!!! was browing through stuff here and saw this:

https://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/ptres/57237.jsp

Oh, AffinHwang... truly "smart" ... Genting was RM3, and they said "not the time to build position in this"
Wonder what their current TP is?

@stocksafeplayer, IMHO, the best way for economy to recover is to get numbers down to single digit in every state, and keep it that low... then we can fully open up the economy again.
As for how to achieve that, well, that's where the whole lives vs livelihoood discussion comes in, where stricter SOPs vs looser SOPs come in.
Personally, I think that it's best to just go ALL OUT and have a super strict MCO for 3-4 weeks, andget the numbers down to single digit, then re-open economy, basically what is happening in Singapore right now. ... rather than this half half thing where it's a loose MCO but stretched out for months and months, and we still have thousands of daily cases...

@jbond007. OK, so he stopped it before construction even began. Hmm, so there's some upside on it restarting, but I was wondering how much costs had already been sunk in, which were originally written off but will now be restored.
Like... the new theme park in Genting. That one was like, Genting had already sunk in HUGE money into it, then suddenly Disney said "Deal is Off"... that one would have had huge provision for losses, which would be reversed since park is on after all.
5% complete project cancelled, and 80% project cancelled, is a lot of difference!
Anyhow, WOW, this really is a good time to get into Genting... multiple dead projects got revived. That's WONDERFUL. ... Well the theme park is definitely wonderful, the tribal casino, I haven't decided yet.

@invisiblehand. Good point... we do have PROPER genting investors here who are also holding some glove shares, and I have no issue with them, in fact, I welcome them and I'm sorry for bad mouthing gloves here. ... I just got fed up with the 88 family.
I'll try to leave gloves alone from now on.

jamesbond007, that's just the PLAN, or has any construction already started?

@invisiblehand. Yeah, you were right about that 10c, for BOTH, accidentally. +10 sen for Genting, -10c for gloves. lol.

The 88 family probably bought Genting-HA and Genting-HB at high prices and they are now big paper loss on those...

@zuliana there's always someone richer lol... When I go look at those guys with their posted portolios on i3, I really feel that I'm not a small fish, I'm a tiny ikan bilis...
like Philip's portfolio: https://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/pfs/120720.jsp
and there is also KYY and all those other guys. Some of guys on i3 who posting some portfolios almost 9 digits. ... meanwhile my i3 portfolio not even close to 8 digits... jealous!
And then of course people discussing names like LKT, LWC and Mahatir, all those guys off in 10 digit realm already (Mahatir probably 11 digits). ... like, my whole life, I can only dream of being within 1-2 orders of magnitude to these guys... hahaha.

Even if you get 100 fellas who buy 1,000,000 genting each, that'd be less than RM500m... sounds like strong support right? ... but, Top Glove already spent more than double that on Share Buy Back, supporting it's own price. ... so 100x multimillionaires can't give even half the support that TG SBB does. ... and TG is the most heavily shorted stock on Bursa, last time I checked.

...

ANYHOW!!! Tomorrow vaccines arrive, and Muhyiddin will get jabbed either tomorrow or Monday! Let's see how the market reacts!!!

@angkaytor... he's gonna have some stiff competition, like Anthony Tan, the founder of Grab (which I am definitely interested in buying when it IPOs, unless it's ridiculously overpriced). And let's not forget those who are not officially on the rich but have ridiculous money like Mahatir and other politicians...

But, yeah, agree with what you're trying to say here... I'm 99% sure that atter the pandemic recovery, Genting will be more than +50% it's current market cap.
Maybe more than double it's current market cap, but that scenario I'm only 65% confident.

It's a fact that LKT is in some financial difficulties. He had previously pledged a substantial portion of his GHK shares, and when GHK price crashed due to defaulting on loans, he had to pledge ALL of his GHK, and when it fell even more he had to top up with SOME Genting Shares.

HOWEVER... even when Genting fell below RM3, he did not have to top up ALL of his genting berhad shares, "just" a very very large amount. So, even if Genting berhad drops to Rm2.50, he would probably not get margin called, he would probably have to pledge ALL his Genting shares, and maybe his other holdings too, but he would not get margin called.

To be honest, when Genting was below RM3, I was indeed worried about the possibility of a margin call force sell, but, as I stated... LKT still had unpledged shares in reserve. And that's at RM3. So RM4 is definitely safe, no force selling on the table.

...

And, from what I can see... around that RM3 period, Genting Bhd was being heavily shorted. So, IMHO, there probably WAS an effort by IBs to force LKT into force selling. And, yeah, to be honest, it MIGHT have succeeded. Especially if Genting had gotten kicked out of the KLCI30, which was very close to happening.
During that period of time, it was pretty certain that some large players were actively trying to push down Genting price. Sorry, not just trying... they were succeeding! As for who was involved, you would need to be able to access who was holding those short positions.

However... that scenario is now off fhe table, and you can see that the IBs agree with me, because they have closed up their short positions on Genting.
Hence, Genting going to RM3 or whatever levels is pretty much not happening. barring some sudden black swan catastrophe like a landslide, or a volcano, or the Theme Park blows up, or something. If things go "normally" from this point forward, without any sudden major events (and, I will freely admit, sudden major events DO happen, In Real Life), Genting should be happily back above RM6 within 2021, IMHO.

... And, I don't give a hoot about all that whole "better not to give buy or sell recommendations, no giving financial advise" yada yada yada. ... I'll directly call it, I recommend "barring any unexpected catastrophes, if Genting dips below RM4, buy in heavily, and hold it until until we recover from the pandemic, and you will make a good profit" ...
Disclaimer: Unless some sudden catastrophe happens like landslide, or we get another pandemic like a zombie virus, or nuclear war or something.

Well, he's accurate about GHK. ... GHK is pretty much in trouble. I would NOT recommend buying GHK shares. ... fortunatly, there is little chance of spillover from GHK to Genting Berhad.

https://www.travelandleisure.com/travel-news/oceania-world-cruise-sells-out-in-one-day

meanwhile, I'm shocked that oceania cruise sold out in one day. That is just weird, IMHO.

@zuliana:

It depends how big the bonus issue is! If Genting follows Public Bank and does 4 for 1 bonus issue, ie 5x stock split, and Genting price is RM2, I don't buy, I SELLLLL!!!!! hahahaha.

If it's 1:1 bonus issue, and Genting price is RM2, I BUY!!!

@shareinvestor88, still not as much as LWC pledged shares for Top Glove, lol.

LKT has already finished his negotiations with his bankers many months ago. (didn't disclose the result though). Anyhow, if they didn't force sell Genting at RM3 (and, yes, I fully admit that at that point I was worrying about the possibility of a margin call and force selling), that let's us know that even at RM3, there won't be a margin call, so RM4 level is perfectly safe.

As for Top Glove, let's see what price level is required before LWC gets margin called, yes? ;)
Judging by how he panics and commences frenzied SBB around the Rm6 mark, I would guess that force selling might happen if it drops below RM5 or RM4?

Genting is sitting on over 25b cash, why would they raise more cash thru rights issue?

bonus issue is basically share dilution. What's the point? Whether you have 10x RM5 or 50x RM1, what's the difference?
If I'm not mistaken, nowadays Bursa automatically adjusts the reference price on the next trading day to reflect any such changes, anyway. If the change is too small, people might ignore the reference price and just trade based on previous day's closing price, I guess, but usually, you just see everything adjusted accordingly, be it price, EPS, NTA, etc, all will be adjusted accordingly, and it's mainly a waste of time and effort.
We saw it work very well in shareholder's favor in the case of Public Bank, but it failed miserably for Top Glove and Supermax.

Ben, your table uses the assumption that glove demand in 2021 is +25% compared to 2020, and grows another +15% in 2022.

Historically, glove growth demand is usually 8% per annum or something IIRC. ... in 2020, glove demand shot up from 290b to 360b, a +24% increase.

So, all in all, that table assumes that glove demand in 2022 will be 518b compared to 290b in 2019, a whopping +78% increase. ... which is more than possible if the pandemic continues or worsens, I guess?

without a pandemic though, I'm a bit skeptical that glove demand in 2022 would be 178% that of glove demand in 2019...

/pm @stocksafeplayer: Dude. Check JN88's message history... last week and monday tuesday, JN88 made several sh1tposts per day, and Genting shares flew up 10c a day. Wednesday Thursday, JN88 was mostly missing in action. Today JN88 was missing in early morning then appeared later on.
Look at the pattern... when JN88 opens his mouth and blab blab blab, Genting goes GREEN! When he disappears, those are the RED days!

JN88 is Genting's guardian angel! as long as he is here talking cr@p, Genting will keep flying! So, please please don't scare him off... JN88 will make all of us Genting investors RICH!!!