Posted by Icon8888 > 2019-07-04 10:49 | Report Abuse

don't waste time on 3iii, he is seasoned enough to know what is going on

he just refuses to accept the concept is valid

Posted by Ricky Kiat > 2019-07-04 10:52 | Report Abuse

bro icon8888, recently u so bullish buy share, are u very optimistic about trade war deal n stock market?

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-04 10:55 | Report Abuse

Trade or no trade war u got to eat mah....!!

Life still goes on loh.....!!

Thus worthwhile to invest u invest loh....!!

Posted by Ricky Kiat > Jul 4, 2019 10:52 AM | Report Abuse

bro icon8888, recently u so bullish buy share, are u very optimistic about trade war deal n stock market?

Posted by Icon8888 > 2019-07-04 10:56 | Report Abuse

sifu Ricky have you ever heard of something called Trump Put ?

everybody in US now believes such thing exist

they believe that next year is presidential election

and trump is super obsessed with stock market performance

so every time market tanks, they know they can rely on trump to spruce it up

Posted by Icon8888 > 2019-07-04 10:58 | Report Abuse

having said so, I am actually being very cautious

for every stock that you saw me buying, I am quietly selling some other stocks that I feel are too dinosaur (sorry 3iii)

I am keeping spare gunpowder

just in case

Posted by Icon8888 > 2019-07-04 11:00 | Report Abuse

the reason I am being so cautious is because I recently bought a fair bit of MFCB Warrants at around RM1.35, which I need to exercise next year April at 2.22 per share

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-04 11:02 | Report Abuse

d by Icon8888 > Jul 4, 2019 10:56 AM | Report Abuse

sifu Ricky have you ever heard of something called Trump Put ?
==========

I don't share that.....a personality like Trump. Eventually he will blow up, just don't know when....maybe starts from his surrender at G20...................

coming into G20, I was bearish and wrong.........even bearish I still retained the 4 shares listed above, cash position very high.

Posted by Ricky Kiat > 2019-07-04 11:03 | Report Abuse

thanks for ur sharing, i also add more armada (dark horse) & mfcb (future dividend) .

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-04 11:05 | Report Abuse

>>>


stockraider 3iii analysis is shallow and one track mind, he don understand value turnaround play with big margin of safety....no wonder when shell refinery sold to the chinese at rm 1.80....he call for a sell at around rm 2.20 loh...!!


>>>>



Philip hits the nail on the head.

raider is stupid.

Someone who values Hengyuan at 35, Sapura at 30 and Insas at ??, this chap is in the stupid group.

So much for his stupidity and margin of safety.


3iii

Posted by Icon8888 > 2019-07-04 11:07 | Report Abuse

3iii high class

he doesn't need to eat like us

he eats grass

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-04 11:09 | Report Abuse

>>>

Sslee Hahahaha,
Pro’ trader qqq3 why the need to study financial account and argue with 3iii? Just make use of price volatility opportunity to make your trading profit is good enough.
04/07/2019 10:40 AM

>>>>



Finally, SSLee reveals a bit about himself.

Rather than claiming to be a fundamental value investor, yes, you do fall into the category of knowing the price of everything but not the value.

Yes, you can make a lot of money too betting on price volatility. Is that the game you and your friends are playing? Certainly otb and group will need this price volatility to play their game.

Know the game you wish to play. I have a whole understanding of this interesting topic.

Posted by Icon8888 > 2019-07-04 11:10 | Report Abuse

told you 3iii is high class

he opens his mouth golden words will come out

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-04 11:10 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-04 11:12 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Ooi Teik Bee > 2019-07-04 11:12 | Report Abuse

Posted by Icon8888 > Jul 4, 2019 11:07 AM | Report Abuse

3iii high class

he doesn't need to eat like us

he eats grass

Ans :
Many methods to win big in stock market, not only method by 3iii can win only.
Always attack others, do you make a lot of money in KLSE to justify you are the best investor ?

I do not care about black cat or white cat, can catch rat is a good cat.

Posted by Icon8888 > 2019-07-04 11:13 | Report Abuse

3iii angry with me because I snored at his thread

now he is reciprocating

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-04 11:14 | Report Abuse

SSlee is definitely a fundamental margin of safety player since he has big position in insas loh....!!

Posted by 3iii > Jul 4, 2019 11:09 AM | Report Abuse

>>>

Sslee Hahahaha,
Pro’ trader qqq3 why the need to study financial account and argue with 3iii? Just make use of price volatility opportunity to make your trading profit is good enough.
04/07/2019 10:40 AM

>>>>

Finally, SSLee reveals a bit about himself.

Rather than claiming to be a fundamental value investor, yes, you do fall into the category of knowing the price of everything but not the value.

Yes, you can make a lot of money too betting on price volatility. Is that the game you and your friends are playing? Certainly otb and group will need this price volatility to play their game.

Know the game you wish to play. I have a whole understanding of this interesting topic.

Posted by Ricky Kiat > 2019-07-04 11:15 | Report Abuse

all sifu dont fight anymore. making money in stock market is our priority.maybe now is a pivotal time.

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-04 11:17 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Ricky Kiat > 2019-07-04 11:18 | Report Abuse

noted, bro icon888.

Posted by Icon8888 > 2019-07-04 11:19 | Report Abuse

when I buy into this stock, I am actually ready for a cash call

in my opinion , a rights will dilute EPS, but it will unlock overhang and expand PE multiple

if done properly, it will create value for shareholders

Posted by Icon8888 > 2019-07-04 11:20 | Report Abuse

that is why I dare to buy

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-04 11:20 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Ricky Kiat > 2019-07-04 11:20 | Report Abuse

bro icon888, what is ur target price for mfcb after powerplant commission?

Posted by Icon8888 > 2019-07-04 11:22 | Report Abuse

rights issue is bad only when there is lack of earnings

if there is strong earning and PER is low, rights can be a good thing

because it enhances sustainability

do you guys know that Armada did a massive rights in 2014 to finance expansion ? So did Yinson in 2012 (please double check timing)

nobody makes a sound then

Posted by Icon8888 > 2019-07-04 11:23 | Report Abuse

and Yinson recently did a perpetual sukuk issuance at 7.8% rate to raise funds

Posted by Icon8888 > 2019-07-04 11:25 | Report Abuse

fools and the mass knee jerk reaction every time there is a cash call

a contrarian investor that can think independently will see the nuances

and act differently

Posted by Icon8888 > 2019-07-04 11:26 | Report Abuse

4.50

depends on dividend yield

if yield is supper good, it will cause extra re-rating until yield falls in line with market norm



Posted by Ricky Kiat > Jul 4, 2019 11:20 AM | Report Abuse

bro icon888, what is ur target price for mfcb after powerplant commission?

Posted by Ricky Kiat > 2019-07-04 11:28 | Report Abuse

tq .bro icon888

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-04 11:28 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-04 11:32 | Report Abuse

Yinson just con & play the market loh....!!

Disguising the balance sheet to appear strong when it is not ??

Its financial is not really that strong loh....!!

Investing in Armada a much better preposition loh....!!

Posted by Icon8888 > Jul 4, 2019 11:23 AM | Report Abuse

and Yinson recently did a perpetual sukuk issuance at 7.8% rate to raise funds

Posted by Icon8888 > 2019-07-04 11:34 | Report Abuse

what you said is only partially true

if you are Yoong Oon making mattress and make a cash call, I will be upset. Because the business is limited to Malaysia and not really scalable

but if you are a company like Armada that can venture overseas and has tremendous business potential, I am actually happy to tolerate short term pain by doing a cash call

that will enhance its sustainability and allows it to unlock its full potential by bidding for more contracts in the future

do a cash call, start afresh, gear up and grow again

AK you can do it


Posted by stockraider > Jul 4, 2019 11:28 AM | Report Abuse

U NEED TO PUT UP THE BUSINESSMAN THINKING CAP...IN ORDER TO USE ON MONIES LIKE RIGHT ISSUE IS VERY INEFFICIENT MAH...!!

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-04 11:34 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Icon8888 > 2019-07-04 11:35 | Report Abuse

then go and buy Yinson lah

have you ever seen me go Yinson thread and bad mouth ?

Posted by Icon8888 > 2019-07-04 11:36 | Report Abuse

I went there and congratulate the forumners instead

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-04 11:36 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Icon8888 > 2019-07-04 11:37 | Report Abuse

the stock market comprises a broad spectrum of players

some like quality, some like special situations

if we can stop attacking people that are different from us, there will be more peace in this world

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-04 11:38 | Report Abuse

Remember a better company does not mean a better investment loh...!!

In stockmarket we have handicaps call under valuation loh....!!

Certainly Armada is safer and better investment than yinson based on higher margin of safety loh....!!

Posted by 3iii > Jul 4, 2019 11:34 AM | Report Abuse

There is no argument that Yinson is a better company than Armada in the same sector.

Yinson enjoys a higher gross margin, operating margin, pretax margin and net margin than poorly managed Armada. Its returns on capital too are higher than those from Armada.

In terms of liquidity, Yinson is also much better. Its risk of defaulting on any loans should be low, given its interest coverage of 2.69. The bankers must be having sleepless nights with Armada where its interest coverage is only 0.97. Current ratio of Armada is 0.3 and its continuation as an ongoing concern is very much dependent on the generosity and kindness of the bankers. As a businessman, you do not wish to be in this unfortunate situation, but this is fact.

As for the quality of management, Yinson's management is definitely more superior than those of Armada. Well, we can infer this from their business profitability. The profit margins of Yinson are so much higher than those of Armada. As very simple comparison, gross profit margin of Armada is only about 20% while those of Yinson is 54.83%.

The recent multiple impairment charges taken by Armada are red flags which "investors' of Armada should take note of. Don't be misled by the SPIN put into this by icon8888. Impairment charges hide a lot of rubbish of the past. It also is a sore thumb that the management has overpaid for many acquisitions in the past that have not delivered. Your money or cash from the company had been spend unwisely. Beware of institutional imperative.

From the above two paragraphs, the management of Armada is sub-par to that of Yinson.

There should be no argument that in terms of:

Quality of business: Yinson is better than Armada
Quality of management: Yinson is beter than Armada

Ah, so, what is the discussion in this thread? It has to do with ....


(Icon) Bumi Armada - A Not So Good Company Selling At Cheap Price Can Be A Good Buy

Yinson

Profitability
Gross Margin +54.83
Operating Margin +48.21
Pretax Margin +31.99
Net Margin +22.70
Return on Assets 3.23
Return on Equity 12.54
Return on Total Capital 8.04
Return on Invested Capital 4.14

Capital Structure
Total Debt to Total Equity 270.74
Total Debt to Total Capital 73.03
Total Debt to Total Assets 58.46
Interest Coverage 2.69
Long-Term Debt to Equity 247.75
Long-Term Debt to Total Capital 66.82
Long-Term Debt to Assets 0.53


P/B 2.57x

Bumi Armada

Profitability
Gross Margin +27.62
Operating Margin +20.77
Pretax Margin -94.96
Net Margin -95.21
Return on Assets -13.39
Return on Equity -51.98
Return on Total Capital 3.26
Return on Invested Capital -25.30

Capital Structure
Total Debt to Total Equity 308.81
Total Debt to Total Capital 75.54
Total Debt to Total Assets 66.78
Interest Coverage 0.97
Long-Term Debt to Equity 98.63
Long-Term Debt to Total Capital 24.13
Long-Term Debt to Assets 0.21

P/B 0.27

Posted by Icon8888 > 2019-07-04 11:39 | Report Abuse

the following is my comments at Yinson

===============

Icon8888 Best of luck to everybody

I miss the boat

But still , wish you guys success
24/06/2019 3:10 PM

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-04 11:42 | Report Abuse

Why valuation leh ??

To prevent Mr Market taking advantage of u mah ???

U should buy when Mr Market is pessimistic & selling like in the case of armada & not chasing overvalue yinson when people are optimistic & over paying loh....!!

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-04 11:44 | Report Abuse

>>>

stockraider Why valuation leh ??

To prevent Mr Market taking advantage of u mah ???

U should buy when Mr Market is pessimistic & selling like in the case of armada & not chasing overvalue yinson when people are optimistic & over paying loh....!!
04/07/2019 11:42 AM

>>>>


Like the time when Hengyuan was $18 and its intrinsic value (by raider) is 45.

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-04 11:46 | Report Abuse

>>>


Jul 4, 2019 11:15 AM | Report Abuse

all sifu dont fight anymore. making money in stock market is our priority.maybe now is a pivotal time.

>>>>



Young man :-)


Not losing your capital is your priority.

By not losing, your upside takes care of itself.

Not only that, the small gains from your stocks translate into reasonable gains, if your losses are kept small.

Posted by Icon8888 > 2019-07-04 11:49 | Report Abuse

Ricky kit is a very seasoned investor

he is much richer than you

save the pep talks



Posted by 3iii > Jul 4, 2019 11:46 AM | Report Abuse

>>>


Jul 4, 2019 11:15 AM | Report Abuse

all sifu dont fight anymore. making money in stock market is our priority.maybe now is a pivotal time.

>>>>



Young man :-)


Not losing your capital is your priority.

By not losing, your upside takes care of itself.

Not only that, the small gains from your stocks translate into reasonable gains, if your losses are kept small.

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-04 11:50 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-04 11:51 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Icon8888 > 2019-07-04 11:54 | Report Abuse

my article always ended up as kopitiam

people from all walks of life came over to slug it out

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-04 11:54 | Report Abuse

U need to understand the bank ask AK to do a rights issue to pay them 1st, as they are recalling their loan early and prematurely woh..!!

This rights issue is not for expansion loh...!!

Surely if u is AK stature ...u fuck them and ask them to fly kite loh...!1

U only repay them thru rights when u have completely no choice and force upon loh...!!

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-04 12:03 | Report Abuse

stock market........is it about price or value?

sentiments or reality?

form or substance?

me? I think the linkage between stock market and reality has been broken a long time ago.................

all macro indicators suggest US is heading straight to recession yet DJ is at record highs..............


anyone thinking stock market is about economics and reality have not been following the stock market the last several decades.............

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-04 12:05 | Report Abuse

U look at value then price loh...!!

This is how u think advantage of Mr Market mah...!!

Posted by qqq3 > Jul 4, 2019 12:03 PM | Report Abuse

stock market........is it about price or value?

sentiments or reality?

form or substance?

me? I think the linkage between stock market and reality has been broken a long time ago.................

all macro indicators suggest US is heading straight to recession yet DJ is at record highs..............


anyone thinking stock market is about economics and reality have not been following the stock market the last several decades.............

Posted by Icon8888 > 2019-07-04 12:06 | Report Abuse

it is about earning

armada needs to deliver another two quarters of consistent earning

then people will be convinced

then they say it is good quality stock

at 40 sen, 3iii will jump in

=============

stock market........is it about price or value?

sentiments or reality?

form or substance?

me? I think the linkage between stock market and reality has been broken a long time ago.................

all macro indicators suggest US is heading straight to recession yet DJ is at record highs..............


anyone thinking stock market is about economics and reality have not been following the stock market the last several decades.............
04/07/2019 12:03 PM