Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2022-12-20 16:33 | Report Abuse

After many years of investing, it is my observation that each invests differently from others. It is the philosophy in them that drives their investing. Those with sound and safe investing philosophy which have proven to be profitable for a long time should continue to do so. These long term survivors are in many cases outliers in the distribution curve of the investing population.

Posted by JohnD0ugh > 2022-12-25 09:36 | Report Abuse

An investor who invested RM50,000 in Top Glove on 30 Jan 2020 would see his or her investment shrink to only RM22,500 by 31 Oct 2022. The icapital.biz Bhd (ICAP) investor would still have RM47,150, or enough to buy more than 54,000 Top Glove shares now.

An investor who invested RM50,000 in Top Glove shares on 30 Apr 2020 would see his or her investment shrink to only RM18,300 by 31 Oct 2022. In contrast, the ICAP investor would have seen his investment grown to RM53,750 in the same period, or enough to buy nearly 62,000 Top Glove shares now.

So if you are back in Jan 2020 or Apr 2020, would you buy the sexy and fast-growing Top Glove at a premium or the "boring" ICAP at a discount? Be honest; otherwise, you will not be able to discover the truth.

What is the most important investing lesson to be learned from this simple experience? When investing, the most important objective is to be able to sustain one's long-term investment performance.

Making money for a short while is very easy, especially when the trend is up. Sustaining one's investment performance through good and bad times is not easy and not something that most investors can achieve.


i Capital Newsletter Volume 34 Issue 16

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2022-12-25 14:49 | Report Abuse

Value investing is simple to understand but difficult to implement.
The hard part is discipline, patience, and judgment.

There are three central elements to a value-investment philosophy.
- First, value investing is a bottom-up strategy entailing the identification of specific undervalued investment opportunities.
- Second, value investing is absolute performance-, not relative-performance oriented.
- Finally, value investing is a risk-averse approach; attention is paid as much to what can go wrong (risk) as to what can go right (return).

Posted by Sslee > 2022-12-25 16:21 | Report Abuse

Table 3: Purchases made since 01 June 2021
Company (‘000 shares)
Parkson Holdings 6,000
Luxchem Corporation 5,007
OCK Group 3,410
Capital A (formerly known as AirAsia Group) 3,000
Wellcall Holdings 980
Apex Healthcare 571
United Plantations 165
Eupe Corporation 100

This is what icap bought for one whole year from 01 june 2021 to 01 june 2022. So are you kidding to call this value investing?

Posted by qqq47660 > 2022-12-25 18:17 | Report Abuse

Icap has been a big disappointment

Posted by Noni > 2022-12-30 16:17 | Report Abuse

Tan Teng Bear for 2023

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2022-12-30 20:53 | Report Abuse

ICIVF
i Capital International Value Fund invest globally

This Fund started investing in July 2009. Its performance in AUD since then is shown below in Table 2, together with the benchmarks MSCI ACWI Index and ASX200.

Table 2 : 1 Jul 2009 to 31 October 2022

Total Return % Change
Currency 01-Jul-2009 31-October-2022
ICIVF A$ 1.0000 1.0425 4.25
MSCI ACWI A$ 306.1537 916.9951 199.52
ASX200 A$ 3,874.00 6863.5000 77.17


After 13 years of investing, ICIVF returned a positive 4.25%.
OTOH, MSCI ACWI and ASX200 returned 199.52% and 77.17% respectively.
Returns are based on A$ (Australian dollar).

Posted by dumbMoney > 2022-12-31 23:14 | Report Abuse

So investors made 4.25% after 13 years while the fund managers made 1.5% p.a. x 13 years = 19.5% approximately (AUM varies from year to year). So the "low risk high return" description in the fund's fact sheet should apply to the latter rather than the former?

Posted by JohnD0ugh > 2023-01-02 00:04 | Report Abuse

For the record, icapital.biz Berhad’s (ICAP) superior performance is not just against Top Glove or other glove stocks. When it is compared with other closed-end funds, ICAP's share price performance stands out as well.

The comparison of ICAP with the Taiwan Fund is particularly insightful. The Taiwan Fund is extremely overweight in fast growing IT/technology /semiconductor stocks, with 66.3% of its NAV invested in this one sector alone.

Its investment in TSMC alone makes up a hefty 22.5% of its NAV. And yet "boring" ICAP has outperformed the Taiwan Fund, either in USS or RM terms. ICAP has also far outperformed the funds invested in India or South Korea.

ICAP's sustained performance, whether in terms of share price or NAV, is not a fluke shot. Take a look at the share price of Malayan Banking. On 19 Oct 2005, Maybank closed at RM8.26. By Nov 2022 or 17 years later, Maybank's share price has hardly moved.

Comparing the share price performance of Maybank with that of ICAP, one can see a huge difference in their performances. The share price of ICAP, even though it sold at a discount to NAV since 2010, has far outperformed the share price of Maybank. Few investors know this startling fact and instead focused on the wrong parameter.


i Capital Newsletter Volume 34 Issue 16

Posted by gohkimhock > 2023-01-02 00:36 | Report Abuse

@JohnD0ugh have you taken MBB dividend into calculations? Try plus back all the dividends MBB paid out from 2005 till todate.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-01-02 00:52 | Report Abuse

Who is dumb enough not to see through the comparison against the share price of May bank when the current annual dividend yield of around 7% is not reflected in the share price? Compound that for 17 years and see what is the total returns. This is the same kind of unfair statistics when comparing performance against the market index which excludes adjustment for dividend yield of component stocks. Bear in mind that over long periods, the re-inventments of periodic dividend payouts allow for dollar averaging, so more shares can be bought when prices are low and bring down the average cost of the shares, so the actual total returns can be even higher than that based on the nominal starting price. For illustration, assume the share price dropped by 50% during a bear market and then recovered back to the previous level. What ever shares bought with the dividends at the bottom of the market would have made a 100% gains even though there is no difference in the share price now. As long as the final share price is higher than the starting share price, dollar averaging would have enhanced the overall returns than just a simple share price comparison.

Posted by Sslee > 2023-01-02 09:39 | Report Abuse

Please ask icapital go fly kite to dare to compare icap with Maybank performance from 2005 to 2022.


Search:
Ann. Date
Ex Date
Type
Subject
Amount
View
05-Sep-2022 19-Sep-2022 DIVIDEND First Interim Dividend (with Dividend Re-Investment Plan) RM 0.2800 Dividend Detail
03-Mar-2022 16-Mar-2022 DIVIDEND Second Interim Dividend (with Dividend Re-Investment Plan) RM 0.3000 Dividend Detail
08-Sep-2021 22-Sep-2021 DIVIDEND First Interim Dividend (with Dividend Re-Investment Plan) RM 0.2800 Dividend Detail
12-May-2021 28-May-2021 DIVIDEND Final Dividend (with Dividend Re-Investment Plan) RM 0.3850 Dividend Detail
04-Dec-2020 17-Dec-2020 DIVIDEND Interim Dividend (with Dividend Re-Investment Plan) RM 0.1350 Dividend Detail
27-Mar-2020 10-Apr-2020 DIVIDEND Second Interim Dividend RM 0.3900 Dividend Detail
03-Sep-2019 18-Sep-2019 DIVIDEND Interim Dividend RM 0.25 Dividend Detail
29-Apr-2019 07-May-2019 DIVIDEND Final Dividend (with Dividend Re-Investment Plan) RM 0.32 Dividend Detail
18-Sep-2018 28-Sep-2018 DIVIDEND Interim Dividend (with Dividend Re-Investment Plan) RM 0.25 Dividend Detail
23-May-2018 05-Jun-2018 DIVIDEND Final Dividend RM 0.32 Dividend Detail
18-Sep-2017 29-Sep-2017 DIVIDEND Interim Dividend (with Dividend Re-Investment Plan) RM 0.23 Dividend Detail
20-Apr-2017 04-May-2017 DIVIDEND Final Dividend (with Dividend Re-Investment Plan) RM 0.32 Dividend Detail
09-Sep-2016 23-Sep-2016 DIVIDEND Interim Dividend RM 0.2 Dividend Detail
20-Apr-2016 04-May-2016 DIVIDEND Final Dividend RM 0.3000 Dividend Detail
25-Sep-2015 08-Oct-2015 DIVIDEND Interim Dividend RM 0.2400 Dividend Detail
13-Apr-2015 23-Apr-2015 DIVIDEND Final Dividend RM 0.33 Dividend Detail
12-Sep-2014 25-Sep-2014 DIVIDEND Interim Dividend RM 0.24 Dividend Detail
16-Apr-2014 29-Apr-2014 DIVIDEND Final Dividend RM 0.31 Dividend Detail
11-Sep-2013 24-Sep-2013 DIVIDEND Interim Dividend RM 0.225 Dividend Detail
12-Apr-2013 25-Apr-2013 DIVIDEND Final Dividend RM 0.33 Dividend Detail
07-Sep-2012 20-Sep-2012 DIVIDEND Interim Dividend RM 0.32 Dividend Detail
17-Apr-2012 27-Apr-2012 DIVIDEND Final Dividend RM 0.36 Dividend Detail
15-Nov-2011 25-Nov-2011 DIVIDEND Final Dividend RM 0.32 Dividend Detail
31-Mar-2011 12-Apr-2011 DIVIDEND Interim Dividend RM 0.28 Dividend Detail
04-Nov-2010 18-Nov-2010 DIVIDEND Final Dividend RM 0.44 Dividend Detail
09-Feb-2010 02-Mar-2010 DIVIDEND Interim Dividend RM 0.11 Dividend Detail
25-Aug-2009 13-Oct-2009 DIVIDEND Final Dividend RM 0.08 Dividend Detail
19-Mar-2009 31-Mar-2009 RIGHTS_ISSUE Rights Issue 9 : 20 Dividend Detail
27-Aug-2008 07-Oct-2008 DIVIDEND Final Dividend RM 0.2 Dividend Detail
20-Feb-2008 24-Mar-2008 DIVIDEND Second interim dividend RM 0.15 Dividend Detail
24-Jan-2008 18-Feb-2008 BONUS_ISSUE Bonus Issue 1 : 4 Dividend Detail
15-Nov-2007 31-Dec-2007 DIVIDEND Interim Dividend RM 0.175 Dividend Detail
29-Aug-2007 30-Oct-2007 DIVIDEND Final Dividend RM 0.4 Dividend Detail
21-Feb-2007 10-Apr-2007 DIVIDEND Interim Dividend RM 0.4 Dividend Detail
28-Aug-2006 30-Oct-2006 DIVIDEND Final Dividend RM 0.35 Dividend Detail
21-Nov-2005 23-Dec-2005 DIVIDEND Interim Dividend RM 0.5 Dividend Detail
26-Aug-2005 07-Nov-2005 DIVIDEND Final Dividend RM 0.6 Dividend Detail
18-Feb-2005 16-Mar-2005 DIVIDEND Interim Dividend RM 0.425 Dividend Detail

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2023-01-02 09:50 | Report Abuse

>>>
ICAP's sustained performance, whether in terms of share price or NAV, is not a fluke shot. Take a look at the share price of Malayan Banking. On 19 Oct 2005, Maybank closed at RM8.26. By Nov 2022 or 17 years later, Maybank's share price has hardly moved.

Comparing the share price performance of Maybank with that of ICAP, one can see a huge difference in their performances. The share price of ICAP, even though it sold at a discount to NAV since 2010, has far outperformed the share price of Maybank. Few investors know this startling fact and instead focused on the wrong parameter.


i Capital Newsletter Volume 34 Issue 16

>>>>


Cannot be right. Many who are in MBB has enjoyed its high dividend yield for many years. MBB also has a dividend reinvestment pogram (DRIP) for those who choose not to receive their dividends in cash.

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2023-01-02 11:57 | Report Abuse

Net Asset Value per share of icapital.biz Berhad as at 28 December 2022 is 3.27.

Past Dividends distributed by iCap
31 Dec 21 Special Dividend 20 sen per share
07 Oct 13 Special Dividend 9.5 per share

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2023-01-02 12:19 | Report Abuse

In 2008, the whole market was down. A young student has RM 10,000 in her FD. I encouraged her to put this into iCap, which she did, buying at 1.60 per share.
Today she has collected dividends of 9.5 sen + 20 sen = 29.5 sen.
Share price of iCap today is RM 2.00 per share.

Based on the market price today, should she sell her shares, she would have collected RM 2.00 + RM 0.295 = RM 2.295. She would have a positive return of RM 2.295 - RM 1.60 = RM 0.695 per share.
Period of investment = 14 years.

Based on market price of RM 2.00 today:
Over the course of 14 years, her investment grew from RM1.6 to RM2.295. Its compound annual growth rate (CAGR) is 2.61 %.

Based on if she could cash out at NAV of 3.27 today
Over the course of 14 years, her investment grew from 1.6 to 3.545. Its compound annual growth rate (CAGR) is 5.85 %.

Posted by CharlesT > 2023-01-02 12:33 | Report Abuse

ICAP's sustained performance, whether in terms of share price or NAV, is not a fluke shot. Take a look at the share price of Malayan Banking. On 19 Oct 2005, Maybank closed at RM8.26. By Nov 2022 or 17 years later, Maybank's share price has hardly moved.

TTB has the thickest face skin in our local stock mkt

Posted by CharlesT > 2023-01-02 12:33 | Report Abuse

Mensiasoikan the Tans

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2023-01-02 12:38 | Report Abuse

Young student's investment with iCAP in 2008.
RM 10,000 @ RM 1.60 per share.

When she invested into iCap, she probably got this advice from me.
Your FD in your bank was giving you a certain return. It might be better to take some risks in the stock market for better returns. You were not in need of money for the next few years and in the long term, in general with the right stock, you hope to get better return fhan the risk free FD rate. She had no knowledge of stock investing. Her financial capacity, that was all she had; her ang-pow money saved over many years.

Why iCAP in 2008? iCAP started in 2005 with NAV of 1.00. In the early years, its NAV grew quickly. Its share price was at premium to NAV for sometime too (rather irrational!). In 2008, its share price came down with the Global Financial Crisis, and it was an opportune time to buy this fund at a good price. She bought at 1.60 per share.


Did this young student, who is now a mother too, achieved her investment objectives through investing in iCAP from 2008 to now, a long term of 14 years? Sadly, I have to conclude and she knows too, the answer is NO.

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2023-01-02 12:41 | Report Abuse

One of the definition of risk of investing is failure to achieve your investment objective after a designated long period of investing.

Posted by CharlesT > 2023-01-02 12:41 | Report Abuse

When can the shareholders hv the chance to decide whether to dissolve the funds or not? 2023 or 2024?

Posted by CharlesT > 2023-01-02 12:42 | Report Abuse

I will certainly buy some to support for TTB's retirement then

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2023-01-02 12:52 | Report Abuse

Did this young student, who is now a mother too, achieved her investment objectives through investing in iCAP from 2008 to now, a long term of 14 years? Sadly, I have to conclude and she knows too, the answer is NO.

Based on market price, her RM 10,000 investment grew to RM 14,344 over 14 years.

Based on NAV price, her RM 10,000 investment grew to RM 22,156 over 14 years.

[Based on a growth rate of 3% per year, in 14 years time, her investment of RM 10,000 would have grown to: RM 15,125.90.]

[Based on a growth rate of 4% per year, in 14 years time, her investment of RM 10,000 would have grown to: RM 17,316.76]

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2023-01-02 13:31 | Report Abuse

Absolute-performance orientation—the tendency to evaluate investment results by measuring one’s investment performance against an absolute standard such as the risk-free rate of return.

Relative-performance orientation—the tendency to evaluate investment results by comparing one’s investment performance with that of the market as a whole.

For individual investors, better to focus on Absolute-Performance.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-01-02 17:53 | Report Abuse

@3iii "For individual investors, better to focus on Absolute-Performance". iCap is touted as a low risk high returns investment, just what you prescribed, haha. They can do this with a significant portion of the portfolio in risk free assets.

Posted by ValueInvestor888 > 2023-01-03 11:43 | Report Abuse

many funds which are run by old and outdated fund managers with fat salaries underperformed EPF over last 10 years

Posted by stockraider > 2023-01-03 11:44 | Report Abuse

Buy with a view of holding to liquidation for icap loh!
It is coming loh!

Posted by ValueInvestor888 > 2023-01-03 15:29 | Report Abuse

On behalf of the Board of Directors of icapital.biz Berhad, we wish to announce that the Net Asset Value per share of icapital.biz Berhad as at 28 December 2022 is 3.27

current share price 2.00 is 60% below the Net Asset as at 28 Dec 2022 of RM 3.27 . SSlee should buy and prod the BOD to dissolve the fund and pay back to shareholders...

Posted by ValueInvestor888 > 2023-01-03 16:37 | Report Abuse

Fat management fees :
Year 2022
Fund management fee RM 3,562,242
Investment advisory fee RM 3,562,242

Who are the winners?

Posted by ValueInvestor888 > 2023-01-03 17:29 | Report Abuse

https://klse.i3investor.com/web/blog/detail/gambler/2020-05-24-story-h1507830782-ICAP_My_Mistake_Liquidation_may_not_even_happen_in_2025

Posted by CharlesT > 2023-01-03 17:55 | Report Abuse

So many loyal shareholders r paying RM7M+ a year to TTB for helping to invest lots of their money in FD for years

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-01-03 23:28 | Report Abuse

Make this a crowd funding project, haha. 60% upside if successful.

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2023-01-04 08:03 | Report Abuse

Possible theoretical scenarios facing iCap.

1. Continuation of iCAP the closed end fund for a new extended period.
2. The forced conversion of iCAP closed-end fund to iCAP open-end mutual funds.
3. In extreme case, the forced liquidation of iCAP closed-end fund.



These last 2 strategies are not risk-free, however, they could produce stock trading profits for closed-end fund investors.

The conversion of an undervalued closed-end fund to the open-end variety creates the profits. By definition, an open-end mutual fund trades at a price that reflects the market value of its holdings. So the price of an undervalued closed-end fund will rise if the fund is converted to an open-end fund.

Closed-end fund managers may oppose conversion for several reasons.

- First, they receive a management fee that is a percentage of total fund assets. After a fund is converted to open-end and the price rises, many fund investors typically sell, shrinking assets under management and management fees by one-third.

- Fund managers may also oppose conversion because of a belief that an open-end structure--which requires them to redeem investor shares on demand in cash--will hurt the fund in the long run.



Big funds or guns buying shares in a closed-end fund make the management of the closed-end fund uneasy. By presenting a restructuring proposal to fund managers, they are giving the managers a severe "this is your one chance to save your jobs" warning. "Some of the guys are waiting for it to happen to them".

Posted by qqq47660 > 2023-01-04 12:43 | Report Abuse

sweet talks.................................pity those who attend icap AGM sweet talk by ttb to buy more and more icap 10 years already.

Posted by qqq47660 > 2023-01-04 13:39 | Report Abuse

and regarding AGM, I will encourage laymen to attend AGM of good quality companies and not attend AGM of lower quality companies. Its a one sided affair.....laymen will be sweet talk by CEo to buy more of their low quality shares.

Posted by qqq47660 > 2023-01-04 13:40 | Report Abuse

this ttb has never treated minority shareholders as partners.

Posted by qqq47660 > 2023-01-04 13:41 | Report Abuse

this ttb has never treated minority shareholders as partners. ..................................so why attend AGM or even read their accounts?

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-01-04 14:02 | Report Abuse

Singapore used to have CEF's managed by the Big 4 Banks (Big 3 after the merger of OUB with UOB), and Malaysia had Amanah Small Cap Fund and property trust PHB2, which all went into members' voluntary liquidation, as the solution to the persistent price discount problem. The big difference here is that all these funds' managers are also part of the parents organisation, which were also the largest shareholders of the funds, so even though they wear 2 hats, that of the owner's are much larger than that of the managers', in the greater scheme of things. So they are on the same page with the outside shareholders and also benefit from the liquidations to realise the full value of their investments. This is how the Harimau Investments notice to shareholders put it: https://www.dropbox.com/s/7dr5u9efqven4x3/Harimau%20liquidation.pdf?dl=0 In the case of iCap, even though CD is also a shareholder, the management fee trounces the shareholdings, so not on the same page with the shareholders.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-01-04 14:06 | Report Abuse

Singapore used to have CEF's managed by the Big 4 Banks (Big 3 after the merger of OUB with UOB), and Malaysia had Amanah Small Cap Fund and property trust PHB2, which all went into members' voluntary liquidation, as the solution to the persistent price discount problem. The big difference here is that all these funds' managers are also part of the parents organisation, which were also the largest shareholders of the funds, so even though they wear 2 hats, that of the owner's are much larger than that of the managers', in the greater scheme of things. So they are on the same page with the outside shareholders and also benefit from the liquidations to realise the full value of their investments. This is how the Harimau Investments notice to shareholders put it:
HARIMAU INVESTMENTS LIMITED
PROPOSED RESTRUCTURING TO UNLOCK VALUE FOR SHAREHOLDERS
Introduction
The Board of Directors of Harimau Investments Limited (“Harimau” or “Company”) is pleased to
announce a proposed restructuring (the “Restructuring”) of Harimau to unlock value for our
shareholders. The proposed Restructuring will involve (1) the voluntary liquidation of Harimau and
(2) the return of cash to our shareholders.
Rationale for the Restructuring
We are a closed-end investment company. We invest in marketable securities for investment
purposes. Our net asset value (“NAV”) is based on the market value of our investments. However,
our share price for the last 5 years ended 30 November 2000 has persistently been trading at a
significant discount to our NAV. Based on our month-end unaudited NAVs and our month-end share
prices for the last 5-year period, our shares had traded at a discount ranging between 23% and 61% to
our NAV per share. The last transacted price of our shares on 30 November 2000 was $1.55 as
compared to our unaudited NAV per share of $2.04 as of the same day. This represented a discount of
approximately 24%.
The Restructuring will enable us to unlock value for our shareholders to be achieved through a cash
distribution to shareholders derived from the orderly disposal of our investments.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-01-04 14:07 | Report Abuse

In the case of iCap, even though CD is also a shareholder, the management fee trounces the shareholdings, so not on the same page with the shareholders.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-01-04 14:13 | Report Abuse

BTW, for those not aware, Harimau was sponsored by OCBC Bank. UIS, managed by UOB, was the last of the CEF to be liquidated in Singapore, after persistent efforts by Laxey Partners on the price discount issue.

Posted by qqq47660 > 2023-01-04 16:12 | Report Abuse

dumbmoney is correct.

don't even read the accounts unless they are going to treat u as partners. Applies in all cases.

Posted by stockraider > 2023-01-04 17:17 | Report Abuse

Lu tau boh ??

Alot of investors veli veli happy when Harimau & UIS are liquidated or bungkus loh!

Even the sponsor OCBC and UOB also very happy mah! They also make tonnes of monies mah!

The story got good ending as everybody wins mah!

TTB on Icap can be in the happy family, if he is willing to let go, bcos of his overall low return for the past 5 yrs loh!

Go for it loh!

Aiseh!
Why attend Icap Agm leh ??

Got alot of free makan many many pretty girls at Icap mtg loh!

Posted by qqq47660 > 2 hours ago | Report Abuse

this ttb of icap has never treated minority shareholders as partners. ..................................so why attend AGM or even read their accounts? same for any lower quality companies such as Jaks, Insas, ............................................ many many more.


and that is the main thing. if u cannot smell a rat from far far away, and stay far far away, there is no end to troubles as Ceo all good in sweet talks up close.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-01-04 22:56 | Report Abuse

One thing for sure, the main shareholders and management of at least 5 listed CEF and property trusts have decided it was in the best interests of shareholders to liquidate their funds when trading at persistent deep discount, so how valid are the opposing excuses not to do so? Superior performance? If this is true, the fund would be trading at a premium instead. That it is only temporary? How long is temporary? 10 years long enough?

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2023-01-04 23:49 | Report Abuse

In 2025, the shareholders will have to decide to continue with iCAP as it is or to liquidate it. I believe, after 20 years of managing this fund, ttb will allow the shareholders to decide. Of course, these two choices have their proponents. Nearer the date, each group will galvanise to win their respective proposal.

Of course, the CL would like to restructure this fund, hoping to cash out at full or close to full value to NAV. How will ttb respond be? He has managed this fund for 20 years by 2025. By this time, he will be close to 70 years old. Will he be as focused on this fund, now that he seems to be very busy increasing his asset under management, the single factor which determines ensured high profitability for any fund managers. For the many who have supported ttb all this time, by 2025, many would have grown 20 years older too. Will they continue to support the extension of iCAP in its present form?

Many of the close-end funds in Malaysia and Singapore were liquidated for many reasons. For many, the returns were not fantastic. Also many traded at huge discount to their NAV. It was overall, frustrating for both the investors and the managers. Disgrunted investors with demotivated managers led to their liquidation, keeping the disgrunted investors happy. Of course, the funds specialising in severely discounted close end funds and catalysing their liquidation walk away with their big returns too.

Posted by qqq47660 > 2023-01-05 09:16 | Report Abuse

70 now is 70 years young. unless there is a law that force the issue, he intends to live off icap fees until he is 90.

Posted by SEE_Research > 2023-01-05 11:17 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by SEE_Research > 2023-01-05 11:21 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Integrity. Intelligent. Industrious. 3iii (iiinvestsmart)$€£¥ > 2023-01-06 17:14 | Report Abuse

Net Asset Value per share of icapital.biz Berhad as at 4 January 2023 is 3.34.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-01-07 17:22 | Report Abuse

Are there other ways to narrow the price discount than the often suggested dividend payout, share buyback and liquidation? Yes, there is one cute little CEF listed in US Liberty All Star Growth fund (symbol ASG). It has managed to trade at a minimal price discount of around 2% with a neat little accounting trick of declaring an annual dividend/distribution of 10% of NAV via 4 equal quarterly payments, but payable only in shares. So nominally, there is a dividend yield of 10% to support the share price, which is higher than most other stocks in the market, but won't affect the AUM at all, i.e. no different than declaring a bonus issue. Because shares have no par requirement and company can return capital to shareholders any time, even though there is no profits for the year, the fund can still make a distribution nominally out of capital. The argument is that while the dividend is not in cash, investors can sell the dividend shares in the market and convert it to cash, and if the share price is close to NAV, the two are fungible, other than the small transaction cost of selling shares instead of banking in cash. So the fund manager is happy because there is no actual cash outflow from the fund and AUM remains unchanged, investors do not suffer steep discount like other funds, and the fund 'earns' a reputation as a solid dividend investment. Like they say, perception is everything, even though nothing has changed. And this is also proof of what my professor has maintained in the M&M Theory of Corporate Finance, that dividend doesn't matter.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2023-01-07 17:31 | Report Abuse

Just to clarify, dividends do matter if there is a big difference between what the shareholders can earn with the cash and what the company can earn with the retained earnings. So if all the company can do is to place it in bank deposits while shareholders can do better with the cash, then of course dividend matters.