Think of insas as an investment holding company. If you think of it using business sense, imagine if you are buying a mutual fund that has volatility risk ( unlike fixed deposit), but last year year used $100 capital to generate $4.17, while EPF lowest in 2019 was 5.4%.

https://www.kwsp.gov.my/about-epf/news-highlights/news-highlights#Highlights

The difference is kwsp is managing almost 900 billion in assets, while INSAS is managing 1.73 billion in assets. That return is somewhat disappointing.

Comparing to a more efficient fund management company like affinhwang with 47 billion in assets under management, their return for their funds over the last 3 years has been around 15.8%.

https://www.imoney.my/unit-trust-investments

So using this as a comparison is much better than thinking of you buy INSAS today you will get back everything in 7 years. You need to think of it as putting your money in a fund manager and looking at his long term results, because even if you bought INSAS, you still need someone to manage it.

So many fund managers out there, why choose the one that has poor return on equity?

Too bad you are not though. As a minority shareholder you probably don't have enough clout to put yourself a position in the bod, much less tell anyone what to do. Such is life of the retail investor.

Yes, I could never appreciate storybook accounting. But in the absence of growing earnings, many create new performance metrics like netflix, twitter, Uber etc to explain the growth of their company.

For INSAS it is the most undervalued company in Bursa. But how efficiently are they utilizing company equity to generate earnings? The reason why sum of parts so not work well for INSAS is because it's ROE versus capital employed is very low.

>>>>>>>>>

Under the old rules, inari would not even qualify to be considered as an associate company - it is non-core despite what the board says as Inari has outgrown the parent and is more than able to stand on its own without any help from Insas

>>>>>>>>>

Kctai3007 Just had a quick look at parkson’s balance sheet which is mainly fixed assets which may not so liquid unlike
Insas

If I were Thong, I would distribute the inari shares
21/05/2020 11:45 PM

Petronm results out, massive losses. Makes hengyuan really jittery...

Very good question, I am also confused as to why a company like parkson with 1.8 billion networth is selling for 10 cents or 107 million.

What happened to net assets model?

I think operating earnings is what happened.

The merry dance of earnings and profits based on fair value changes in financial assets is great, but can only be used up to a certain point, when losses and valuation ceases to make the investment viable.

I remember that a Singapore oil trader was able to hide massive losses by using marked valuation accounting, it worked for many years until one day... It just stopped working.

https://www.asiaone.com/money/hin-leong-tradings-114b-cover-scandal-what-singaporeans-need-know

FYI, I am not comparing INSAS to hin Leong as insas has ample cash and assets, as repeated multiple times by Sslee. But fair value changes on stocks has a very interesting way of changing the value of the company, which is why the best way to monitor this mini Berkshire Hathaway is to look at operating earnings, not assets.

The productivity and growth of earnings shows how well the INSAS management is working on your behalf, and explains a lot on why the PE of INSAS is so low, why the expectations are so short.

You are welcome to join our telegram chatgroup Lee. Many professionals to bounce ideas from.

He said he wants to buy more, but I feel it is the ego talking. We all have our pet stocks, and sometimes learning to let go is the hardest thing.

Really expensive bintang beer... Hi everyone, I have started a telegram to help investors do rational investing. Please feel free to join and discuss on stocks without fear of spamming, trolling and backed by portfolio results. Tme/philipcapitalmanagement.

Hi it's on my portfolio profile page. I can't seem to paste it in chat I don't know why. But it's the tme/philipcapitalmanagement

Sslee, thank you very much. You are a veritable Nostradamus. The moment you sell, PCHEM share price goes up, adds 2 billion in market cap. Can you tell me what else you are seeking out buying so I can edit your portfolio so I know what to buy and avoid?

>>>>>>>>

I cash out my Pchem after reading this Q1 result. So tonight still got Bintang Beer and lobster.

It's the one with /Philipcapitalmanagement

Hi qqqq3, its at the top description. For some reason I cannot paste the address in chat.

Hi, appreciate if we can move the chit chat to my telegram, as I would like to leave this portfolio page for announcements and my personal postings. The telegram had been quite lively recently actually. A very good chat program

I now have a telegram account! my daughter has just set it up for me and its proving to be very useful. Lets chat more there if you are interested, without the insults, backbiting, spam and random talk. Just rational investing.

Lets discuss more and chat more on QL if interested.

>>>>>>>>>>
https://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/pfs/120720.jsp#tabs_group2

I now have a telegram account! my daughter has just set it up for me and its proving to be very useful. Lets chat more there if you are interested, without the insults, backbiting, spam and random talk. Just rational investing.

Lets discuss more and chat more on PCHEM if interested.

>>>>>>>>>>
https://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/pfs/120720.jsp#tabs_group2

I now have a telegram account! my daughter has just set it up for me and its proving to be very useful. Lets chat more there if you are interested, without the insults, backbiting, spam and random talk. Just rational investing.

Lets discuss more and chat more on yinson if interested.

>>>>>>>>>>
https://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/pfs/120720.jsp#tabs_group2

See what they do, and not what they say. When they put serbadk at 1.05, they were constantly sending out the whatsapp group messages to us to buy low. I decided to just go all in at 1.12, on heavy margin.

https://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/pfs/120720.jsp#tabs_group2

Right now, I will be enjoying 0.012 dividend on 1.12 investment(1%) helping me settle my margin loan as well as the climb to 1.85 is going to give me a lot of confidence in holding on further.

I look forward to the day my investment in march will be giving me 10% dividend every year just holding on to serba stock.

anyway, I now have a telegram account! my daughter has just set it up for me and its proving to be very useful. Lets chat more there if you are interested, without the insults, backbiting, spam and random talk. Just rational investing.

>>>>>>>>

Posted by Fabien "The Efficient Capital Allocater" > May 21, 2020 9:35 AM | Report Abuse

This AmInvestment analyst is a joke. From 1.05 less than a month ago, a company's valuation can changed so drastically to 2.20.

We upgrade our call on Serba Dinamik Holdings (Serba) to BUY from SELL with a higher fair value of RM2.20/share (from an earlier RM1.05/share), based on a 30% discount to our diluted sum-of-parts (SOP) valuation of RM3.15/share vs. a previous P/BV target of 1.3x.

Hong leong bank also gives a low tp of 4.42 for pchem. So why am I holding at 5.83? Maybe I should sell and follow sslee into trading pchem?

The problem is, when public bank IB ask me out for coffee to discuss on what my views are on pchem and my investment inclination on the future of pchem, I realized that if ib analysts reports were so good and accurate, why are they working for others instead of doing their own investing?
>>>>>>>

https://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/hleresearch/2020-05-21-story-h1507773060-Petronas_Chemicals_Group_Rocky_Start_to_2020.jsp

Maybe investing in leong hup would suit you better? AMinvest seems to believe it will go up.

>>>>>>>>

https://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/AmInvestResearch/2020-05-21-story-h1507772382-Leong_Hup_International_Improved_ASP_in_May_expected_to_be_short_term.jsp

Hi Sslee,
maybe you will be better off following aminvest research that pegs pchem valuation at RM3.25,but now forced to revised that to RM4.45, while I was happily buying at 4.09 instead of waiting for a miracle price selling below cash for a 40 billion company.

Actually I think you will be better served to stay away from PCHEM at all costs, as this investment is not suited for a trading aspect as the volatility is not something traders like, they prefer far more volatile investments that can make money quickly.

>>>>>>>>>>

https://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/AmInvestResearch/2020-05-21-story-h1507772376-Petronas_Chemicals_Group_Close_correlation_to_precarious_oil_price.jsp

so, an order book of 17,000,000,000 in the next 4 years to complete requires no money ? May I ask, when your boss first started PT indonesia, how much money was needed to start the plantation up and how much revenue generated that first year?

>>>>>>>

Total liabilities is high: 4,479,503,000
Cash and cash equivalents: 1,284,139,000 then why still need Private Placement of RM456.7 million

I have started using a new app called telegram introduced by my daughter to do more moderated discussion on stocks online. So far it seems very useful to me.

Good morning all

The proper way to look at pchem results is to compare it with it's local competition.

Quarter. Revenue. Pbt. ...... NP. Np margin
Lctitan 31-Mar-2020 1,461,834 -205,795 -169,496
Pchem 31-Mar-2020 3,891,000 568,000 493,000 12.67%
Luxchem 31-Dec-2019 187,155 12,757 9,418 5.03%

If you understand the market environment and business industry, the fact that a company is able to do so well and generate such returns at such a time will give me confidence in a growing business with wonderful long term results. Why did I go into margin and bought every share I could at 4.09? Because this is a wonderful business. How often can you say that yes I own part of a wonderful business that I will never sell?

But it's funny how Mr market can react sometimes, giving you huge discounts at times and asking crazy prices other times.

It's pretty interesting, enjoying my 1.2 cent dividend in June based on 2.6 million shares bought at 1.2 cents. 1% dividend per quarter to sit around waiting. While you look at PPE, I see more and larger dividends coming my way, with a profit already up and great earnings this quarter.

As for PCHEM, I bought a huge block at 4.09, did you buy and hold? Or caught waiting for a bottom that did not come? So while you are enjoying bintang beer and lobster, at 5.84 share price, someone else is enjoying 50% returns on a blue chip company that is making money on the worse of times with 10% margins while PCHEMS competitors are all bleeding cash everywhere.

The thing with traders is they seem to have the bad habit of being stuck in bad investments that quickly become "long term investments". I hope your trading gives your joy, because the real money is made from waiting for wonderful companies to grow over time.

Dear Sslee, which tech has a bigger and better future ( and services you would pay for)

Fintech payment systems in a world of alipay, boost, visa, grabpay etc etc?
Or AI predictive maintenance that allows firms to maintain the health of their machinery better, reducing their maintenance costs better and bringing revenue? Who will be willing to pay more?

1 billion in quarterly revenue and 10% net income should give you some idea where serbadk is heading.

I wonder if you have had the chance to use the apps or services provided by INSAS yet?

>>>>>>>>>

Despite the above-mentioned downturn and volatility domestic and globally, the Group
mitigated through its strength in maintenance in which existing contracts are still being
honoured and drawdown since the asset’s production are still running. Incorporating the
value-added features with Artificial Intelligence (“AI”), its predictive maintenance has
gained better respect from customers. Added integrated solutions such as high-end repair
capability in the Group’s global centre of excellence will help to secure more new contracts
both locally and globally.

Additionally, through technology transfer from the Group’s associate company in
Switzerland, Italy and Netherland, enabled further in upgrading of equipment at affordable
local price while parts manufacturing has positioned the Group as more favourable option
as compared to our competitors. Thus, sustainability in term of continuous utilisation of
contracts have managed to be realised. The Group also activated its EPCC activity in non-
oil and gas sector in Tanzania, Uzbekistan and Laos. This will give continuity to revenue of the
Group

MR Market hard at work, its amazing when you think about it. When the directors of the companies themselves are selling, the investors who bought 10 years ago are selling, when the public is making estimations like this, then you know the results are buoyed not by real returns, but by speculation and optimism. IT can be a huge drug, especially when you see the share price keep going up, and you feel drawn and swept to join in the feeding frenzy. But this is exactly why 80% of retail investors lose money in the stock market.

Pure greed.

Sure the share price can go up to RM30. But it will crash down just as fast.

The trick is to invest rationally and not be pulled by the fear of missing out. At the same time, when the prices are at their lowest, one must not be fearful and stand waiting, but to go in and buy all you can. Shooting fish in a barrel 2 months ago was so easy anyone could have done it. So investing doesn't require a huge mental intellect, just emotional fortitude.

>>>>>>>>
Posted by Yu_and_Mee > May 20, 2020 4:21 PM | Report Abuse

end of the day, highest production capacity will be the winner because if price of piece glove up 0.1%, just imagine the additional profit is significant.
If up 10%, I can't imagine how much 73B production capacity will help the bottom line.
I think topglove in next 4 quarters, the share price should worth at least 30.00 if we based on what "they" calculated in Comfort.

>>>>>>>>
Posted by 360Capitalist > May 19, 2020 10:14 PM | Report Abuse

If we use annual capacity to make comparison between Top Glove and BIG 3 (Hartalega+ Kossan + Supermax), we may agree that Top Glove's share price is trading at 50% discount against BIG3 combined. Top Glove's share price is only half of BIG 3. ( RM10.48 Vs RM20.84 ).

With RM10.48 investment into Top Glove that has 91B capacity, we are actually making a good investment deal with 50% discount. Whereby you need to invest RM20.84 into BIG3 to get similar range of production capacity.

So, I believe eventually the share price of Top Glove will move faster to narrow the price gap with BIG3 when Top Glove releasing the QR report next month.

1)Top Glove 91.1Billion Vs 96.7Billion Pieces of Gloves (BIG 3 Combined)
2) Share Price :
Top Glove Vs BIG 3 (Hartalega + Kossan + Supermax)
RM 10.48 Vs RM 20.84 (RM9.01 + RM7.58 + RM4.25 )

Note :
Installed Capacity for Gloves Quantity :-
Top Glove ( by 2021 ) 91.1 Billion
Hartalega (by 2021 ) 38.5 Billion
Kossan 32.0 Billion
Supermax 26.2 Billion

gkent also add position, every day buyback shares to compete with you. when all the shares that people want to sell is gone, only left is those who want to buy shares....

So you want to follow the ib? The IB rich meh? if they so powerful, then why they still need to sell you buy calls?

>>>>>>>>


qqq33333333 every IB also issue buy calls with higher and higher Tp...only game in town is back.....so how?
20/05/2020 3:01 PM

How? It is very easy, you start by not using share price and assumption of profits as the basis of your valuation analysis. You start with real data. What is real data? Information shared by management of course.

1. Jaks management gives 12% IRR, and 140 million of earnings from power plant.
2. Gkent management project of 11.9 billion, with a 6% earnings guidance.
3. serba dinamik 17 billion orderbook.
4. yinson orderbook of 5.4 billion from brazil.

You start with information that is given and guided by management which is recorded in official announcement and if falsified is liable for litigation.

So when you talk about future, you don't start with what God told u, you start with what the MANAGEMENT has guided towards. Not only that, you start with what the management is doing versus what they are saying. Who said that selling price increase by 30%, the volume, profits, costs also increase? If profits so good, why is management and directors selling like no tomorrow?

This kind of assumption is not based on rationality, but since many people are not rational, it is very hard for them to tell the difference.

qqq, you can't tell the difference also? Let me ask you as simple question, can you share what comfort management actually did say about their sales of gloves? did they give a profit guidance?

>>>>>>>>>
qqq33333333 aiyah..philips...............when u talk about the future, u don't start with " assume" , what u start with? That God told u?

the whole world full of stories about PPE crisis, about shortages and even about America hijacking PPE......so assume lah.........
20/05/2020 2:56 PM

Rational is when you use real data. The moment you say "assume" you are using speculation as basis.

>>>>>>>>>>>

qqq33333333 KYY/OTB says.................comfort assume selling price increase by 30% quarterly profit increase from $ 13 million to $ 54 million, target price increase to $ 5.56............


what did I say about character and attitude? and that every thing also can be rationalised....Philips says just be rational.


rationalizing and rational ...can tell the difference meh?

I wonder if Calvin tan works for them Maybank invest.

Who is this Fred tham

Some wide advice from the head manager of affin hwang investment Banking, the soon to be listed first find management company of its kind in Bursa Malaysia.

His 3 rules
1. Ride your winners, sell your losers. He talks about how traders become long term investors when they start losing money and they keep their bad investments in the closets. Hold your winners, sell your losers.
2. Don't lose your capital. Understand that selling is just as important as buying. Cut loss is also another skill that one must learn, although this can be an expensive lesson to be learnt. But moving forward is always important.
3. Location, location, location. In stock market: management, management, management. Always learn to pick good management who can help you earn over time.

Very sound advice indeed.

One interesting thing that people rarely look at is warrens ability to dump bad stocks fast and without ego or second guessing. He also makes bad deals like Dexter and conocophilips, but structures it in a very smart way. Take for example his 3b bet into GE before. Right after he bought it, it dropped from 24 to 4. How did he make money? He bought preferred shares which paid 10% p.a.

>>>>>>

https://youtu.be/W-idg0rPkDQ

It's funny how everyone just say high pe company is based low PE company is good. In the end QL and Topglove superhigh pe companies end being the most reliable in the market. Investors should learn how to value businesses not play with stocks.

Icon Holland stock. Then when asked, I already cut loss. But when write articles... So beautiful!!!

-----------

https://klse.i3investor.com/m/blog/icon8888/2020-03-01-story-h1484655370-_Icon_Sam_Engineering_Excellent_Result_Share_Price_Can_Potentially_Doub.jsp

You keep repeating this, can you be more specific? Any examples to share on what you mean and how to take advantage?


>>>>>>>>>>

qqq33333333 trading is about being proactive, reactive sure die.

shares move by illusion and fake news....
19/05/2020 4:40 PM

I just realized what that chat bubble is on top of the page. It is a messenger tool!

So very greedy and lazy, and telling lies every day. Between my wife, family, myself, my investing group we are investing a large sum ( with margin), but still only maintain 6 accounts only. You single handedly got 15 accounts? So bullshit meh?

Then take 1 account and track la. What so hard? Is your real name Dan lok or ian Lopez? Or you actually don't know how to invest at all, no results so give a lot of comments and bullshit?

If don't know how to invest then keep quiet la.

Why still talking so much bullshit?

Don't be stupid la, it is already marked to market share by share. You just don't know how to use the i3 platform to get the data say bullshit again.

Everyday wasting time. You deserve to lose every cent you have

Bullshit and bullshit again. Everyday talk cock. If like that I also can. Talk cock in forum not time consuming meh? Then better you stop talking here and go back to your 15 fake accounts.

Then can you show me your portfolio so I can see what you are doing instead of what you are bullshitting?

Your value investing got results meh?

If you talk big but cannot perform, then why the hell are you trying to teach me?

Your performance from hengyuan, insas WA, sapura, bjland etc already show me your quality.

>>>>>>>


stockraider Philip should understand what is value investment mah...!!

Stockraider, can you stop commenting here? Everytime I give comments backed with real portfolio results, you come in with your stupid ideas and your imaginary results. But since you don't post no body know how much you lose. You promoted and say buy a lot of sapura at 36.5 cents, and say it is a good deal, but now the price drop to 10 cents. But you hide your portfolio, so we don't know if you sold because you never say, how much you buy, maybe you sailang ( you know what sailang means right? But how come suddenly now your sailang is maean 10-20% of your portfolio? Sailang mean 100% all in la sohai).

If you cannot be honest about your results, I suggest you go somewhere else and promote your fake guru comments and tell people what to buy and do, because frankly you are a persona non grata here.

No one is listening to you, care about your opinions or even want to hear you speak. If you just keep quiet is better than you speak.

The are many other people that we can learn from, but how come your posts is the loudest and capslock? And you keep posting previous comments until the whole page cannot see.

If your results can match your comments ok la, but you bark so loud but bring everyone to Holland, better you don't talk at all.

Hi 3iii, may I know where to obtain these statistics?


>>>>>>>>>

Today

The turnover of 11.21 billion units was worth RM4.40 billion compared with 9.23 billion units worth RM3.87 billion on Friday.


Average price per share today was 39.25 sen.

Average price per share last Friday was 41.9 sen.


Penny shares on fire!!!

4. What are the long term business prospects for airlines? If we take delta as an ongoing concern, their 3 billion in cash is not going to be enough to arrange off the cash burn. Looking at their previous expenses and rate of expansion and the level of competition for what customers are left, they will be looking at a lot of months of losses and negative earnings yet. As they have guided towards a cash burn of 50 million a day, let's start with that. Let's say we are a bank that is seeing the entire industry go bankrupt, would you borrow money to Delta? Probably, if the rates were cheap enough. I doubt delta will be bailed out by the government, although they will give grants for unemployed workers.

I believe 20 billion is a good starting point for how much money they will need to survive. I believe banks will charge cutthroat rates to take the risk of bankruptcy and haircut, so let's say a conservative maximum of 10% per annum. Meaning, interest costs alone can range from 1.2 to 2 billion a year alone in finance costs.

In their best year alone were making 4.7 billion in earnings, if you were to put that large of a stone on their backs, huge finance repayments on top of low earnings guidance will hurt the business for a long time to come. Breaking their backs and bankruptcy might be a very high possibility, but the change in long term business prospects becomes a certainty.

Think on that before we buy Air Asia.

Not that I am defending Warren buffett or anything, but I think his position on the business that it has changed structurally merits some further explanation quantitatively.

Let's see how the long term prospects for airlines have changed.

1. There will be a long term closure where planes are not allowed to fly. This has already gone on for months, and will continue on for months more. Worse case scenario let's take a year before flights can begin. Problem is, even once flights are restarted, only domestic flights will pick up. International flights will still be slow as fear is still around, even when a vaccine is found. So if we can start, let's take a rational basepoint f 1 year of lost income, just as a conservative guide.

2. Generally, most businesses will go bust if they lose 1 year of revenue. Let's take delta airlines for example. In 2019 they had revenues of 47 billion, with 4.8 in profits, a year of rapid growth and low fuel costs for them. So basically, as they are a service based industry, they have a high operating expenses, which in 2019 amounted to 40 billion. How much to keep them grounded over this period?

https://www.cntraveler.com/story/what-it-takes-for-an-airline-to-ground-its-fleet-amid-coronavirus

https://simpleflying.com/grounded-planes-costs/

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/22/delta-dal-posts-1q20-loss-of-607-million-as-coronavirus-hurts-travel-demand.html

So now we have a rough cost of how much of a hole airlines need to dig themselves out of. Let's take the worse estimate for Delta. Cash burn of 100 million a day.,

3. Delta had cash of 3 billion in 2019. So now we need to understand the future prospects, aka how delta is going to dig itself out of a 30 billion dollar hole.

>>>>>>>>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3eSu4XAZw4&feature=youtu.be

Sad. 40 unbroken quarters of profitability broken in a black swan event.

I didn't fill up for gas in almost 2 months. Anyone who is buying petrol station business at this juncture is asking for it. It doesn't matter what the price of oil is if no one is buying.

Do you read annual reports cover to cover? Or are you the type to just look at certain metrics and forget the rest? For me, I usually further the first few pages of the annual report into sustainability report. But the back half I basically memorize to bring up later when I need to crunch numbers.

The best bits of the annual report are at the back pages. That's where the meat is.

Do you read the last few pages of annual reports? The information can be very interesting.

If you look closely, you will know who is in the top 30 shareholders and who hold independent directorships. Do you know who are the top 30 shareholders of kab?


>>>>>>>>>>

qqq33333333 that ex Cimb guy got share his portfolio meh?
18/05/2020 9:46 PM

I understand what the goals are.

However, if companies like Berkshire that is x times larger than INSAS consider it important to treat shareholders like partners and be as transparent as possible through the good and bad, I don't see why we cannot hold ourselves to a higher standard.

Question: do you know why Bernie Madoff was able to get away over such a long period?


>>>>>>>>>>>

Answer: The full details of quoted securities are not required to be disclosed in the annual reports under the Listing Requirements, Companies Act or MFRS. If such disclosures do not compromise the confidentiality of the investment strategies of the Group, the Board will consider providing further analysis in future annual reports.

Do you know why Listing Requirements, Companies Act or MFRS did not required listed company to disclose fully their Financial assets at fair value thro’ profit or loss (Quoted shares)?

Antifakeguru, I think in this case you are wrong because you did not post the entire context of his history of emails. But in that case it is also doubly wrong because OTB is running a paid service and you are directly interfering with his income.

As a gentleman I think you should stop sharing his subscription reports to his subscribers to the public as it is not fair that I should have information that others paid for.

As for OTB, may I leave a suggestion? I think this antifakeguru is angry because he may have lost money from your calls before. What I feel is you should be also be fair to your subscribers by maintaining your own trackable portfolio for your subscribers to show that the stocks you recommend to buy and sell are also those that are in your portfolio. As the portfolio performance cannot lie and your position size should indicate your confidence in your stock pick, I believe those subscribers will be happy to know that when making money both side will make money and when losing money you also lose money with them.

I believe that level of honesty to your paid subscribers and investors is the minimum level of transparency you should provide them to reduce their unhappiness when they lose money buying your calls.

This is how I provide transparency with my group of friends in our private equity, and as the biggest shareholder they know any stupid investment mistakes will hurt me more than it will hurt them.