Dedicated to Papa TTB.....what is market manipulation.

SC sues Yu Kuan Chon over alleged market rigging, manipulation

https://theedgemalaysia.com/node/716904

My take TTB is using diversion tactics.. Hate DAP. Everything is DAP's problem. At this point TTB will be even more afraid to declare dividend. When it goes ex-dividend the share price has not mementum to go to before dividend... It's a psychological perception price got depresssed eve further.

All talk talk only....no action one on the innovative dividend....will be a miscarriage 🤣🤣

1st year innovative dividend Cheng Beng anniversary will come soon. RiP

Dream ba.... Dividend... Rising NAV = more management fees😂😂

Wat! SBB? Dividend? Why benefit COL? Why bail them out at such a good price? You see the problem here?? TTB said COL sold hastily....you mean they should sell only 5,000 days/day to maintain price? Then you are asking COL to use 600 trading days to exit? 😂😂 COL not so bodoh la....why crash iCAP price while they managed to disposed a small little brother middle finger while the whole body is still trapped in iCAP

An old dog may have some cognitive capacity to learn new tricks.. 😂😂

Don't use same old long winded tactics

Or do share buy back

If I'm TTB, declares dividend

bad feng shui on iCap

https://www.thestar.com.my/business/business-news/2024/05/31/klci-slips-below-1600-mark-857-stocks-in-red

Why it FY closing ended on the day with 857 stocks in red?

After Pop lost the case -- what do you expect? If foreigners can't buy more surely sell la!

When you see COL sell, the rest cannot sell ah????

COL still got at least 30 million++ shares to sell.....this will be the share price overhang even NAV shoot up to $5

It's a value trap....got shares sell now, no shares buy other counters.....you can even copy TTB portfolio without paying him any management fees. :)

Looking at the daily volume, no interests from retail investors to buy ady.

Opportunity or threats --- or exercise cautions?

iCap closing price
15/5/2024 ---> $ 3.44
16/5/2024 --->3.30 down from previous day 4%
17/5/2024 --->3.24 down from previous day 1.7%
Cumulative losses 5.7%

COL contributed to 65 -70% of selling in the past 2 days.

16/5/2024 293,300/448,400 = 65% of sales
17/5/2024 207,200 over 297,700 = 70% of sales.

A few things to think about on this new development:

(i) As TTB wishes to kick out COL, his dream may finally comes true….COL is finally exiting now.

When a substantial shareholder starts to exit in such an illiquid stock, share price will surely dropped quite drastically, as we can see it has lost 5.7% or 28 million market capitalization was wiped out in 2 days….Pray hard no more follow through selling from other people who also will join the sales party.

(ii) In the past, COL was being accused: when they start buying share, price dropped, discounts were widening, by the same logic, when they start selling shares now, price should go up, discount should be narrowing. Can you have a cake and eat it at the same time?

(iii) Many of us has been advocating to buy low, sell high. This is exactly what COL was doing, buying low and now prices have moved up substantially, sell high.

(iv) But TTB has been selling the story buy high and sell at even higher prices…..In TTB you trust maxim.:) Good luck to those water fish.

TTB has been drumming up his bullish calls and sowing seeds that his NAV will only go up. In current positive market environment, many will anchor his most recent NAV around $4 and peg a discount and concluded it was still cheap to buy especially he was telling everyone iCap NAV will go up in 5 years from the range $ 7.86 to 10.19

(v) Even it may come true though his historical track records at best was matching EPF return. Beware buying at any of current price.

(vi) What if there is a black swan event? What if his current NAV around $4 drops by 20%, NAV will be $3.2, pegging a 24% discount based on his innovative dividend policy, worst case share price will drop to 2.43. Say those buy at $ 3.20, they may be staring at 25% losses.

(vii) There are two assumptions need to be re-examined.

One, COL will never sell and will buy “even at row with the fund manager”. Despite of kena smacked by the fund manager, , dragged to court and suffered public ridicules by posting tonnes of accusations in AGM or blogs, his private pulpit iCAP newsletter, quarterly and annual report, booo at AGM wheneve COL was mentioned, list will go on. None of this important, what is import to COL is buy cheap at a discount and sell high. They will ignore all the political speeches and rallies.

Two, NAV will never drop – yes not yet. Be careful of recency bias.

(viii) Will iCap share price get cheaper? At what price you may find support? Using the base case of NAV 4 and 30% discount, you may find some support around $2.80.

Someone says you can ignore all the noises in this blog…….Yes, please 😊

they always speaking out of two mouths -- one mouth say they care only about NAV but they other mouth say they don't care about the iCap share price but all the statements contradict themselves

but unfortunately they won't dare ... only poking here and there.....

Haha.....if they dare to mention that explicitly it's COL - then they can be sued till no pants for defamation and libel against the court

>>>>>
As its fund manager, my investing decisions influence the NAV performance of icapital.biz Berhad. On the other hand, the market price of icapital.biz Berhad is, positively or negatively, determined by investors, especially those who breached the 20% single shareholder limit.
>>>>>>

Second misleading thing - iCap lost the appeal all the way to Federal court when the court rules no individual shareholder exceeded 20% holding.

It's a scary thing when people tell 1/2 truth 1/2 lies....

Lol! Dream on - market cap does not even breach 1 billion. Even small cap also not qualified. The fund manager like to mis-lead people. Integrity?

Time will tell............:)

See 22/3 189 k shares bought by COL and that large long green candle......for now many iCap shareholders that entered at lower prices are rejoicing.

Hope more water fish will take the bite.....

One of the things that may directly impact COL will be their voting rights....even they have more than 20%....their voting rights will be clipped. If I'm in COL shoes, I certainly have no incentives to buy further.

To many may still thinking current situation is status quo, the implication of Pop Investment lost the case will have the implication of Foreign ownership may be capped at 20%....those still thinking COL or foreign investors will continue to buy, you may need to digest this latest development.

TTB did not publish this in a high profile manners is a smart thing to do. Else when panic sets in all rushing out at the same exit door, iCap price will undo all the advances.

Further to the announcements dated 3 November 2023, 16 November 2023, 17 January 2024 and 4 March 2024 (“Announcements”), unless otherwise defined, the definitions and terms used as set out in the Announcements shall apply herein.



The Board of Directors of the Fund wishes to announce that the Judge of the Kuala Lumpur High Court had dismissed Pop Investment Limited ("Plaintiff")’s suit on the Originating Summons No. WA-24NCC-581-10/2023 (“the OS”).



The Fund will make further announcement on the developments of the above matter as and when is necessary.



This announcement is dated 25 March 2024.

https://www.bursamalaysia.com/market_information/announcements/company_announcement/announcement_details?ann_id=3433355

Those have no positions or plan to increase position, think again. Do you still buy into TTB iCap dream, share price $ 8-11? Good luck!

Congrats?😨if COL cannot buy or no incentive to buy and forced to sell, what will happen to the share price? buy and hold forever?

If this we were to go on....iCap soon will be like a zoombie and we can see widening of discounts again....TTB is still very quiet about the dividend thing.....what takes it so long? It's 3-4 months past AGM......still sweet talk or think we all got Alzheimer?

COL bought shares again on 4/3/2024.....price lifted from 2.80 to 2.90 but the next days people watered it down...clamoring to exit......NAV naik sikit but share price kept getting stuck......no interests from retail investors ady....😂😂

Rare! Iconic! Irony!

Need some buy some Amway products to purify the toxic air in the office....even though they met only a couple of times a year 🤐🤐

@observatory

Don't be like that lah....It helps at least to improve my English vocabulary. Sui! Very rare and iconic. What's an irony!😆

Messages crossed... My message was referring why shareholders bailed out as such deep discounts

They should follow Patient Investor...if want to sell Q as close as possible to NAV or at premium. Unfortunately with a little of sweets like yesterday.... Sellers rushing to bring down from 2.90 to same opening price. I was keeping my fingers crossed, hold all sell orders you fools but only God knows why they sold. 😂😂

Thanks for the reminders.... While COL was buying, Laxey Partner was exiting... If COL was not buying... Dunno who will take over of Laxey large block. If COL and Laxey were party in concert surely we would have seen the married block.... It's understandable when people have so much stakes in iCap... They naturally worries of many sharks...

Would like to share these charts. You can make the evaluation and conclusion yourself

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/egw4i5cazhx4oz464s061/iCAP_discounts_COL.pdf?rlkey=7jhje7o5ss4d1gdkjq5zhtzqc&dl=0

TTB keeps telling the whole world, discounts were widened as they employ running do___gs posting hundreds of posts in this forum, manipulating share price so that COL can buy on cheap.

Hence, I go back to period before COL became a substantial shareholder. The discounts already existed between 13-25%.

You can see after COL became substantial shareholder, they kept buying while the discounts were stable at 20% from the period 2011-2018. For sure many think this part of data fits the narrative but not so fast...see the movie till the end. When COL slowing the buying from 2019 - 2021, annual nett share purchases dropped drastically(you can see the 2 red bars in the chart 1) -- the discounts widened more and more to almost 35%. When iCAP took COL to court, they can't buy post injunction and went down to almost 40%.

Discounts start to improve a bit but like zhangwin said, within weeks of purchases after the injunction lifted, it helps to bring back to about 20% level.....

Post injunction charts are posted for your reference.

@Zhangwin - since you have invested almost all in with iCAP....pay some of the attentions on the issues being discussed here. I personally feel the biggest issue with the fund manager is ego. Ego is dangerous too as this is a component that we usually need to evaluate management just like in other companies. A person is more ready to admit guilt by omission or commission is more straight forward and will learn the lessons more deeply. WB would have many times kicking himself by making mistake by omission for not taking position on stocks he understood perfectly or how he lost shareholders money by making a bad decision. Some said he can do so because of he is WB and admitting it openly won't erode his credibility. To me it's a person DNA, some people just can't sleep when he felt we had not done the best.

I wish you best of luck.

Low P/B

Some are pure traditional value play such as low PE, high dividend yield or P/B

Right now, I sold 1/2 position despite of TTB has employed a lot of cash due to some I perceived stocks that can beat TTB....It's a risk...I may do worse or do better than iCAP....no free lunch in this world. Want higher return have to move out from my comfort zone. But if you think cash out ended chasing stocks already run far ahead....my humble opinion to stick with iCAP.

So very simple, when you see TTB sit on cash - sell iCAP put in FD but don't gamble on TopGlove😂😂

Retail investor can - you get 3.5-4% in FD and no need for management fees😂😂

0.35 price was adjusted based on five-to-two price consol....in case you see 1 in AR, you need to compare to 0.15

Yes - Hibiscus at the market crash was 0.35 but he paid for 2 at much later stage also

Many of us in the market should be able to observe that many of the small caps would have double in price from 2020....

For argument sake, in early 2020 NAV of 3.15, 35% equity, 65% cash, equity portfolio = 1.10, cash 2.05, cash that being deployed double will be MYR 4.10 by now, assuming his original 1.10 equity goes up by 50% it will be 1.65. Added these 2, expected NAV will be MYR 5.75. Current NAV is 3.60 --> Gap fall short = 2.14 or 60% if he wants to employ this waiting for market crash strategy.

@Zhangwin -- it's also very brave of you sharing the experience on TopGlove. Surely TTB has called something right, something wrong.....in the newsletter calls, it's okay because the buy and sell decisions it's in the reader hands.

He called Nikkei 225 to go down to as low as 8,000, Nasdaq and S&P500 to crash by 25-40%. He revised his call on Nikkei 225 at much later stage and remain unchanged on the US market.

He also called for KLCI to go down to 800 points in the long term but perhaps he is still deliberating on the revision.

In the fund management, the crux of the issue is TTB is sitting on the cash for 7-10 years waiting for KGB, Capital A and Apex?? vs a bit more balanced active money management.....will it be better for shareholders. While waiting, he took 70million fees from shareholders....these are the issues most of us raising here.

@SSLee, I respect that you have such a courage to share with us. Prehaps you are too humble. I am pretty sure, you have added many more + rebound, you have done pretty well.....beating iCAP😂😂....keep this to yourselve....no need to reply....

Yalor...who doesn't have such a day in their investment life...

This is what KC Chong said in this blog re iCAp. SS Lee shared the link

"I also believe the fund manager is good one too and he should be able to grow the NAV of icap faster than the broad market. It helps if he has more humility. Just my personal opinion."

Humility is the key word😂😂

Another one

Top Chinese hedge fund founder admits mistakes after losses

https://theedgemalaysia.com/node/698401

“I made the mistake of assuming a quick victory,” Li said, admitting that the intensity of China’s policy response to its faltering economy had failed to meet her expectations.

Li said she’s cut back on her positions having lost money, but remains confident in her country in the long run.

“I have no intention of complaining about the country and blaming the government,” she said. “I have faith in the future and fortunes of this nation.”

What a beautiful statements.

SSLee - everybody can make a wrong call....for example one of the best of the best Asia Genesis hedge fund manager Chua Soon Hock. He started Japan Macro Fund from < USD 100 million and grew it to almost 800 million....unfortunately he made a very rookie mistake recently by going in all Long in Hong Kong China and Short Japan...he got wiped out. A guy with such a long track record of 40 years in the market also had a bad day....the difference is just the attitude....he issued very humble statements and felt responsible for it...If TTB do the same thing, I promise to disappear from this blog forever.

https://www.thestar.com.my/aseanplus/aseanplus-news/2024/01/28/big-mistakes-singapore-hedge-fund-to-shut-after-investors-flee-on-wrong-way-bets-on-china-japan-stock-markets

The prescription was there in the prospectus, perhaps if COL didn't buy into iCAP, TTB will take many of the remedies according to his playbook in the prospectus. He just beh shiok because it was suggested by others, especially he has identified them as sworn enemies. The case studies in the prospectus showed it could help to narrow the discounts but cannot eliminate with varying degrees of effectiveness but certainly is better than do nothing. But telling people it is destructive, he just have to eat every words in the prospectus he has written. 😂😂

@ dumbMoney.

Funny. Absolutely didn't expect it to be in the prospectus..boomerang😂😂😂

>>>>
In case people ask, these are legitimate and accepted ways to manage the price discounts as published in iCap's prospectus. If these are now considered destructive for the company, why print it in the first place, as it can be considered misrepresentation?
>>>>>

@Sslee
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Any chance TTB wake up one fine morning and be as magnanimous as PNB to propose a liquidation resolution for shareholders to decide whether to support or oppose the liquidation proposal during the next AGM?

>>>>>>>>>

Me: Probability - ZERO chance.