@dumbMoney, I won't poke you with a pen, I will hug you when I see you at the hall way🤗

@ Observatory, thanks for the appreciation. Don't be just a silent reader, please feel free to chip in to geh poh a bit....make the chat room more lively a bit😂😂

Unlocking value from conglomerate sometimes sounds very lucrative, in reality a long, lonely journey. Either strike gold or go home empty handed.

iCAP fund manager advocated a similar thesis called Malayan United Industries. (MUI - stock code 3891)in 2008. MUI was actively raising cash by disposing Corus hotels, turning around Metrojaya department store and also owned 34% in Laura Ashley.

At that point of time, iCapital.biz publishers and its associates also owned the shares. The price when they wrote that piece was $M0.25/share. Last checked $0.06/share, - 76% over a period of 15 years.

They wrote that the market was grossly misrepresent the potential of MUI turnaround. As at 31 December 2007, MUI has RM 830 mln long term borrowings and RM 778 ml worth of cash and cash equivalents.

MUI also has properties worth RM 1.12 bln, mainly carried at net book value. Out of this RM 1.12 bln, RM 781 mln represents the value of the hotels in the UK, carried at 2001’s cost, and RM 118 mln represents the value of the group’s hotels in Malaysia and Australia.

They also have 1,100 acres of underdeveloped land in Bandar Springhill(around RM 100 mln @ 1995’s value), Menanra PMI(RM 30.8 mln), and other lands and buildings. The group’s crown jewel, the Corus Hyde Park Hotel, alone worth close to RM 600 mln at the current value.

All these they argued provided investors with a margin of safety.

Investors basically got free Laura Ashley with the price they paid.

I have not checked the details of the fundamental after 15 years, surely they still have billions of assets. Is the market still insanely punishing MUI?

Just for reference.......

😆You know, I know lah. Cheers 🍻

>>>>>
TBB will hold capA before covid 19 and will still dumb dumb hold capA till suspension and delist. There is no value investing from TBB. He is just a thick skin trying to hold on the icap management and earned his undeserved management fees.
>>>>>

Nobody even talked about closing his fund down but only talking about probability on theoretical realizable of NAV with 75% approval with special resolutions. People only talked about ordinary resolutions like normal appointment of BODs already created the hallucinations of Brutus conspiracy.

Insas could be well legitimate business with many assets and cash rich, that is the reason why I thanked @dumbMoney for his simple explanation that corrected my perception. The issue is unlocking assets on his own will be difficult. It's his lifelong handwork. He will fight till last drop of his blood for those want to dismantle his business. If you read further, he wants his next generation to continue to guard his business.

You can see how iCAP of which is such a tiny small fund will go all out to names calling, calling people learning nothing good from #1 MBA school in the world and writing rubbish here.

I respect you reasonings.

@dumbMoney... Thanks, else I could have committed a manslaughter with my pen. 🙏

Sorry, I think I really have cakap banyak. 🙏🙏🙏

A good company always talk you in English that your grandmother understand. This is a rule of thumb. Anything above that, leave it to hedge fund managers that specialized in special situation where they have enough money and legal fire power.

Market hates uncertainty or things they don't understand. A sudden rise, could be pump and dump.

Too many complicated footnotes.. Some belong to clients and what not... Really sorry.. All the best to those have big balls to raid the company... Not for me. I only skimmed through the AR like 15 mins, gut feel is just keep telling me it's too good to be true. Or may be owner may be really screwed the company so badly wanted to take it privately at the expense of minority shareholders. In doubt,my first reaction, RUN.😂😂

Who is this Dato's Sri Thong?

Another WB wannabe?

I lost count on # of subsidiaries that even auditors making disclaimers some of them are not audited by them.

Speaking of the cash, why the interests received is so low, sitting on 1 billion cash?

Some many be attracted by some ownership in Inari but on balance it could be a honey trap. Sorry, the company is too big for a small brain like mine to analyze further.

Paiseh...no further comments.

Mah lei! I thought iCAP will leave us in peace and let us talk rubbish...still monitoring us???

after all, we got only 1 share, in no way can threatened them. WTF with JohnD0ugh coming back with low risk, high return garbage again!

For those just came back from iCAP pilgrimage trip, I have a simple challenge for those believe in low risk high return,

Put $1,000,000 in iCAP at buying price of $4.20/share(20% premium on last NAV), see happen to this low risk, high return.

😤

Correction: .....Consolation is we were NOT dragged into the Brutus conspiracy to topple Ceasar.

Good that now they know we rant because we want to point out things that are not right and not to be benefited personally from all the postings.

Good that Patient Investor left lagak lan si lan yeong.

All he cares is to keep Ceasar in power for another year, pending court case on foreign limit thingy. Consolation is we were dragged into the Brutus conspiracy to topple Ceasar.

A numbers of resolutions were heavily voted against such as reelection of BODs, Dato Seri Md Ajib Bin Anuar, Ms Tan Mun Ling and even the auditor. The voting patterns were the same. I take only 1 of the resolution as a sample for discussion

Resolution 3 To re-elect Ms Tan Mun Lin as a Director
For 467 shareholders
Votes 45,021,704
% 56.9581

Against 27 shareholders
Votes 34,021,851
% 43.0419

Total 79,043,555

Total foreign shareholders that most likely voted against were as follow:
COL 32,117,900 shares
Pop Investment 1,279,600 shares
BROWN BROTHERS HARRIMAN & CO. (CGWI LTD) 990,000 shares
Total 34,387,500

Minus the foreign holding votes, so basically it says that only a few small minority that voted against but with not much shareholding firepower.

The rest of the 2700++ shareholders with remaining 61 million shareholding just can't be bothered(indifference).

Ceasar just declared, Rome still under his rules. The rest of you few small potatoes can keep on ranting.

Wah.. So jia lat one ah.. 😱

Ya😂😂

@Speakup..I almost had an heart attack when you shouted "limit down?"

Will wait for the AGM counting results. Thanks to Patient Investor letting me know on the 55% turnout. I was wondering why you know the turnout so fast. 😂😂

Now we know beside the legal fees, we also know the exposure that the fund manager put on shareholders if COL choose to pursue the lost opportunity to buy at lower price during the injunction.

He ka ka jiao jiao people with SICDA, now people is calling his bluff. At the end, still the shareholders have to pay the legal fees.

Of course he wants people like use to exit the fund so that nobody ka ka jiao jiao.

@Fairplay thanks for the shout on 800 k on the legal fees.

@Patient Investor. You asked will I increase beyond more than 1 share? My answer is no. I lost my respect for him. I just need to keep the 1 share to have the right to rant here.

@dumbMoney. Good thing that you remained silent throughout the AGM and made postings here. Else will be blamed unfairly again.

Calling your name in specific during AGM even though you didn't even stood up to make any speech really surprised me.

3 possibilities
1. Jealous. He can't get into #1 MBA in the world. Petty. 🤡
2. What you said is true, like 20% foreign limit was not in the constitution, dividend irrelevant theorem, etc... Really threatened him.
3. More people agree with you... He gets more scrutiny.

😂😂

Data on the recent COL started to buy after iCAP lost the court case. Discounts narrowed from 33% to 21-23%, buying caused widened discount?

Date***********Qty share****closing price****Nav*****Discount
7/8/2023*****79,000********2.46************3.54*****33
10/8/2023***136,000*******2.46************3.56*****31
15/8/2023***162,000*******2.78************3.56*****22
16/8/2023***338,500*******2.81************3.56*****21
28/8/2023***132,000*******2.80***********3.61******22
14/9/2023****80,100*******2.77***********3.58******23

If they have paid close attentions to have we posted here, they should have anticipated the same questions will be raised.. quite surprise they brought up COL ownership caused the widening discounts. All along we keep saying the fund manager is sitting on his big fat cash waiting for a bear market caused the poor performance. Disappointed shareholders on the poor performance exited at big discounts as much as 43%. The market is discounting his cash of doing nothing.

Looks like they are recycling the same story like an old broken record.

Anyhow, still the same thing I want to say

I we don't take, he takes, better we take.

Despite of they overruled the theorem on the irrelevance dividend policy. 😞

So, did they said when it be implemented?

I have 3 things that I hope to see improvements

1. Apologize to all shareholders for the lost decade
2. Cake B, first do his "innovative dividend" tinge, then iCAP PUT(I can wait on iCAP PUT tinge)
3. Re-consider re-appointment of Tan Mun Ling.

The reasons already in my previous post. I don't want to be cheong hei!

Have a nice day.

I don't want to be active for the next few days unless someone use his golden finger to poke me.

Oh...cox I have only 1 share, selling it out will lose my right to "Ngo Yew Kong Yeah"(I want to say something)

Money is not everything if things get personal just like what he did to others.......

Everytime I "bau liu"(digging the fund manager closet), share price went up, did the fund manager support the share price? afraid to face shareholders? At least he can say in AGM, you see, lesser discounts now. I certainly didn't buy. The truth will come out after AGM. This is a real buying or just wayang kulit.

This country was making some small progress that got the fund manager bullish about our bursa because of a few people that will swear Nia Mah! instead of going to Australia to be apple pickers or HK to "sei tai pheng"? (washing plates) or US to pei shu zhai(peeling potatoes). Nia Mah!

I don't like the fund manager also but I can work with him, this is what I am doing now. This is heaven - small "h"😆.....if he has the sincerity, many small h will become big H......Heavens. He is running iCAP like another big H now.....Hells.

The fund manager needs to ask his conscience. "I know what you did last summer" What has he done to others: Public Enemy #1 tinge - far worst than I merely dug out the facts from his annual reports....did he fell embarrass? Not taking profit of 16 million in 2011 on Boustead? Or did he miss the signal the train was coming when Boustead suspended dividends? The dividend that I added back was not deducted on his 1.5% management fees on the yearly Fair Value and income tax, it is for sure less than $16 million, I didn't want to be so calculative....he knows how much he owes the shareholders for this one.

T Nia Mah! Amen.

I need to add back the dividend iCAP received for Boustead Holdings Berhad(BHB). Estimated about $ 16,822,767 through out the 16 years. BHB suspended dividends from 2019-2021 and paid the last dividend in 2022 and subsequently RIP.

Overall is about break even for iCAP and not 17 millions loss. You see I have been very fair. The fund manager will use his performance to compare to MSCI by excluding the dividends in his calculation!

I want to call him to put a stop on such thing. You see the 2 pictures?

If I use what he uses, he had a horrible losses and everybody wants his head to roll.

When I added back the dividend, instead of his head to roll, may be just a small slap.

Hopefully it's not another 16 years love affair with Boustead Holdings Berhad, ended up with tragedy.

Year*** Qty**********Cost********Fair Value****Profit/loss
2008** 2,070,400***8,793,554***10,973,120***2,179,566
2009** 3,248,500***13,084,667***13,708,670***624,003
2010****6,547,900***24,139,980****24,685,583***545,603
2011****6,547,900***24,139,980****40,073,148*** 15,933,168
2012***7,197,850***23,616,247****36,349,142**** 12,732,895
2013***6,197,850***21,122,656****31,732,992**** 10,610,336
2014***6,197,850***21,122,656****32,290,799**** 11,168,143
2015***6,197,850***21,122,656****24,791,400**** 3,668,744
2016***6,197,850***21,122,657****25,267,395**** 4,144,738
2017***12,147,786***27,444,475***32,191,633****4,747,158
2018***12,147,786***27,444,475***29,397,642***1,953,167
2019***12,147,786***27,444,475***13,605,520***-13,838,955
2020***12,147,786***27,444,475***8,442,710****-19,001,765
2021***12,147,786***27,444,474***7,470,888****-19,973,586
2022***12,147,786***27,444,475***9,110,839****-18,333,636
2023***12,147,786***27,444,475***10,386,357***-17,058,118 (Realiased RIP -62%) 😨

Lol! 😂😂

That's why the ended up selling nasi lemak and air tickets for other people 😂😂 provided they still can keep their planes! 🙄

For iCAP die hard fan....in the future, you monitor yourself on what your fund manager have bought for you the combo meals on CAPA
Counter ************************************************ Qty********Cost*****Cost per share*****Price 31/10/2023*** Fair Value
Capital A Berhad - Ordinary shares******CAPITAL-A****29,282,200**24,811,409** 0.85***0.84*** 24,597,048
Capital A Berhad - Redeemable Convertible Unsecured Islamic Debt Securities
******************************************CAPITALA-LA**9,760,733**7,320,550*** 0.75*** 0.87*** 8,491,838
Capital A Berhad - Warrants**
*****************************************CAPITALA-WA***4,880,366*****0**********0******0.375*** 1,830,137
Total cost 32,131,959 Fair Value 34,919,023
Gain 2,787,064
Gain % 8.7%

Chap sang!

😂😂 At least a KFC box....thought could be worse.....wrap in newspaper

My final view on the performance before somebody hit the nail on my coffin lid...

Stop talking nonsense about at the relative performance with the confusing gimmicks.

I think he should just shut his mouth.....show me the money......I call you lek chai when NAV = 5.00 in 2-3 years from today.....30/10/2023. Why talking nonsense with this MSCI that MSCI, this cash that cash! All thrash thrash!

Shareholders demographic since iCAP inception
'000 shares
(1)Year******(2)Company**(3)Individual**(4)Insiders**(5)Instituition**(6)Top 30 total***(7)The rest of us
2006***** 4,315**** 24,409**** 3,000**** 5,177****** 36,901******* 103,099
2007***** 4,928**** 21,712**** 3,000**** 5,200**** 34,840******* 105,160
2008***** 5,437**** 19,293**** 3,539**** 4,192**** 32,461******* 107,539
2009***** 5,514**** 19,069**** 3,689 ***** 1,397***** 29,669****** 110,331
2010***** 5,056**** 19,501**** 3,689****** 2,060***** 30,306 ****** 109,694
2011***** 5,263**** 20,143**** 3,389****** 8,432****** 37,227****** 102,773
2012**** 5,214**** 18,464*** 3,389******* 17,563**** 44,630****** 95,370
2013**** 5,698**** 21,616*** 3,489******* 15,727**** 46,530****** 93,470
2014**** 5,698**** 22,304*** 3,489******* 15,431**** 46,922****** 93,078
2015**** 5,698**** 22,635*** 3,489******* 18,086 **** 49,908****** 90,092
2016**** 5,698**** 17,510*** 3,489******* 18,850***** 45,547****** 94,453
2017**** 5,698**** 16,742*** 3,539******** 22,110**** 48,089****** 91,911
2018**** 5,698**** 16,943*** 2,800******** 26,428**** 51,869****** 88,131
2019**** 5,698**** 18,747*** 2,800******** 25,687***** 52,932***** 87,068
2020**** 5,629**** 20,866*** 2,800******** 27,767***** 57,062***** 82,938
2021**** 4,620**** 21,062*** 2,800******** 28,798***** 57,280***** 82,720
2022**** 5,608**** 18,653*** 4,775******** 30,454***** 59,490****** 80,510
2023**** 6,877**** 18,664*** 4,738********* 30,434***** 60,713******* 79,287

A few observations - % based Top 30 in 2023
1. Quite stable holding by company(5%)
2. Individuals-large - stable- (13%)
3. Institution quite a big increase but mainly by COL(22%)
3. Insiders increasing slowly(3%)
4. The rest of us has been declining very steadily from 103 million in 2006 to 79 million... I have no privilege to access, beyond top 30 largest shareholders, I believe the decline is even more serious because beyond top 30, not will be classified as individuals.

The writing is on the wall, the rest of using are losing faiths in the fund manager. Yet he is still lan si lan yeong. Instead of finding ways to regain our trust, he said NAV is his job, the rest, f U. He is shifting the blame to the "institutions".

He doesn't need to blame the rest of the institutions, there is only 1 institution(singular not plural, I got it right) COL is the largest holder. Hold a four-eye meeting with them, settle things privately. Don't drag the rest us into the muds. Nia mah!

@JohnD0ugh..I think I can save $49 annual subscription fees to iCAP since you are giving out freely these days.

Short reply to your long posting, another long reply later when I'm free:

The fund manager needs to change the color of his underwear, change from RED to BLUE. He is thinking RED color will bring him lucks forever. In case it doesn't work, switch to a RED panties....before he is losing his underwear or panties 😂😂

If he can just say like what 3i quoted:

"It is more honest to say I don't know and that my past predictions were sometimes very wrong."

He will get lesser bad lucks....how to be in good luck when so many people cursing you instead of blessing you?

If anyone of you have a book The Singapore story Memoirs of Lee Kuan Yew, read chapter 36. You know how certain party using media to their advantage. This is a business forum/blog. Let's stay away from politics related issues.

If we see news with political headlines, stay out from the crossfire.

As much as I have criticized the fund manager, we need to stay objective and rational. AK, hit out at the fund manager supported current government for his bullish call partly seeing positive changes & more stable government.

“If we look back at the five-year period from Jan 1, 2019, Bursa Malaysia only rose once to 1,707.73 points on Feb 1, 2019 when Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad (who is known as Atok to Madani supporters) was the prime minister (PM) of the then PH government.”

Only to his advantage yea...the not relevant part...flush down to the toilet

but better don't praise you too much else the fund manager can get jealous....he can be very childish even coming to 70 years old

@dumbMoney - I think you are a real PHD holder but you are too humble about it and doesn't care about all with those title😂😂

*doesn't(correction)

That is why once the theorem is set and validated, it is very difficult to say gravity does exist!

So long story short, I believe simplest answer still, If I don't take, he takes, so better I take.

So I want to call his bluff, go ahead and get it done, see whether he can get it done in 3 months...if still ee...ehhh...eehh. then you know he is full of shits

But I believe your are real Dr.

@dumbMoney - paiseh....nowadays easy to impress people by just google up in the internet or ask Chat GPT. But can also buy a PHD Doctorate like Dr Lim from Top Glove😂😂

Teminal value = NAV/(d-g) where d is investor discount rate, g is iCAP management expected growth rate.

So it will become negative as soon as g > d, negative value is not adding value but subtracting value from sum of the PV of dividend d1/(1+d)+d2/(1+d)^2+......dn/(1+d)^n + NAV/(d-g)

It's more like a math logic, hopefully I got it right....1/2 past 6 student

Or actually real cost is 3 since that's all you paid regardless of invoice price. Sell price 7 - 3 = $ 4

Geng