They should follow Patient Investor...if want to sell Q as close as possible to NAV or at premium. Unfortunately with a little of sweets like yesterday.... Sellers rushing to bring down from 2.90 to same opening price. I was keeping my fingers crossed, hold all sell orders you fools but only God knows why they sold. 😂😂

Thanks for the reminders.... While COL was buying, Laxey Partner was exiting... If COL was not buying... Dunno who will take over of Laxey large block. If COL and Laxey were party in concert surely we would have seen the married block.... It's understandable when people have so much stakes in iCap... They naturally worries of many sharks...

Would like to share these charts. You can make the evaluation and conclusion yourself

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/egw4i5cazhx4oz464s061/iCAP_discounts_COL.pdf?rlkey=7jhje7o5ss4d1gdkjq5zhtzqc&dl=0

TTB keeps telling the whole world, discounts were widened as they employ running do___gs posting hundreds of posts in this forum, manipulating share price so that COL can buy on cheap.

Hence, I go back to period before COL became a substantial shareholder. The discounts already existed between 13-25%.

You can see after COL became substantial shareholder, they kept buying while the discounts were stable at 20% from the period 2011-2018. For sure many think this part of data fits the narrative but not so fast...see the movie till the end. When COL slowing the buying from 2019 - 2021, annual nett share purchases dropped drastically(you can see the 2 red bars in the chart 1) -- the discounts widened more and more to almost 35%. When iCAP took COL to court, they can't buy post injunction and went down to almost 40%.

Discounts start to improve a bit but like zhangwin said, within weeks of purchases after the injunction lifted, it helps to bring back to about 20% level.....

Post injunction charts are posted for your reference.

@Zhangwin - since you have invested almost all in with iCAP....pay some of the attentions on the issues being discussed here. I personally feel the biggest issue with the fund manager is ego. Ego is dangerous too as this is a component that we usually need to evaluate management just like in other companies. A person is more ready to admit guilt by omission or commission is more straight forward and will learn the lessons more deeply. WB would have many times kicking himself by making mistake by omission for not taking position on stocks he understood perfectly or how he lost shareholders money by making a bad decision. Some said he can do so because of he is WB and admitting it openly won't erode his credibility. To me it's a person DNA, some people just can't sleep when he felt we had not done the best.

I wish you best of luck.

Low P/B

Some are pure traditional value play such as low PE, high dividend yield or P/B

Right now, I sold 1/2 position despite of TTB has employed a lot of cash due to some I perceived stocks that can beat TTB....It's a risk...I may do worse or do better than iCAP....no free lunch in this world. Want higher return have to move out from my comfort zone. But if you think cash out ended chasing stocks already run far ahead....my humble opinion to stick with iCAP.

So very simple, when you see TTB sit on cash - sell iCAP put in FD but don't gamble on TopGlove😂😂

Retail investor can - you get 3.5-4% in FD and no need for management fees😂😂

0.35 price was adjusted based on five-to-two price consol....in case you see 1 in AR, you need to compare to 0.15

Yes - Hibiscus at the market crash was 0.35 but he paid for 2 at much later stage also

Many of us in the market should be able to observe that many of the small caps would have double in price from 2020....

For argument sake, in early 2020 NAV of 3.15, 35% equity, 65% cash, equity portfolio = 1.10, cash 2.05, cash that being deployed double will be MYR 4.10 by now, assuming his original 1.10 equity goes up by 50% it will be 1.65. Added these 2, expected NAV will be MYR 5.75. Current NAV is 3.60 --> Gap fall short = 2.14 or 60% if he wants to employ this waiting for market crash strategy.

@Zhangwin -- it's also very brave of you sharing the experience on TopGlove. Surely TTB has called something right, something wrong.....in the newsletter calls, it's okay because the buy and sell decisions it's in the reader hands.

He called Nikkei 225 to go down to as low as 8,000, Nasdaq and S&P500 to crash by 25-40%. He revised his call on Nikkei 225 at much later stage and remain unchanged on the US market.

He also called for KLCI to go down to 800 points in the long term but perhaps he is still deliberating on the revision.

In the fund management, the crux of the issue is TTB is sitting on the cash for 7-10 years waiting for KGB, Capital A and Apex?? vs a bit more balanced active money management.....will it be better for shareholders. While waiting, he took 70million fees from shareholders....these are the issues most of us raising here.

@SSLee, I respect that you have such a courage to share with us. Prehaps you are too humble. I am pretty sure, you have added many more + rebound, you have done pretty well.....beating iCAP😂😂....keep this to yourselve....no need to reply....

Yalor...who doesn't have such a day in their investment life...

This is what KC Chong said in this blog re iCAp. SS Lee shared the link

"I also believe the fund manager is good one too and he should be able to grow the NAV of icap faster than the broad market. It helps if he has more humility. Just my personal opinion."

Humility is the key word😂😂

Another one

Top Chinese hedge fund founder admits mistakes after losses

https://theedgemalaysia.com/node/698401

“I made the mistake of assuming a quick victory,” Li said, admitting that the intensity of China’s policy response to its faltering economy had failed to meet her expectations.

Li said she’s cut back on her positions having lost money, but remains confident in her country in the long run.

“I have no intention of complaining about the country and blaming the government,” she said. “I have faith in the future and fortunes of this nation.”

What a beautiful statements.

SSLee - everybody can make a wrong call....for example one of the best of the best Asia Genesis hedge fund manager Chua Soon Hock. He started Japan Macro Fund from < USD 100 million and grew it to almost 800 million....unfortunately he made a very rookie mistake recently by going in all Long in Hong Kong China and Short Japan...he got wiped out. A guy with such a long track record of 40 years in the market also had a bad day....the difference is just the attitude....he issued very humble statements and felt responsible for it...If TTB do the same thing, I promise to disappear from this blog forever.

https://www.thestar.com.my/aseanplus/aseanplus-news/2024/01/28/big-mistakes-singapore-hedge-fund-to-shut-after-investors-flee-on-wrong-way-bets-on-china-japan-stock-markets

The prescription was there in the prospectus, perhaps if COL didn't buy into iCAP, TTB will take many of the remedies according to his playbook in the prospectus. He just beh shiok because it was suggested by others, especially he has identified them as sworn enemies. The case studies in the prospectus showed it could help to narrow the discounts but cannot eliminate with varying degrees of effectiveness but certainly is better than do nothing. But telling people it is destructive, he just have to eat every words in the prospectus he has written. 😂😂

@ dumbMoney.

Funny. Absolutely didn't expect it to be in the prospectus..boomerang😂😂😂

>>>>
In case people ask, these are legitimate and accepted ways to manage the price discounts as published in iCap's prospectus. If these are now considered destructive for the company, why print it in the first place, as it can be considered misrepresentation?
>>>>>

@Sslee
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Any chance TTB wake up one fine morning and be as magnanimous as PNB to propose a liquidation resolution for shareholders to decide whether to support or oppose the liquidation proposal during the next AGM?

>>>>>>>>>

Me: Probability - ZERO chance.

@Patient Investor -

>>>>>
How can COL fire shots? their own performance is worse than icap, AGM also dont attend. COL has the capital, just they alway want to accumulate at discount to maximise profit potential.

>>>>

Good question - how COL can fire the shot? So passive.

Good luck to them. It's them that need to answer to their shareholders.

I bet if COL is really firing the shots, attract another 3-5 sharks with 5-10% ownership, iCap is finished. Game over

In my opinion, COL is too soft. Should they are really a lot more aggressive like being painted by TTB or Patient Investor, things will be a lot more exciting or attracts other sharks to finish iCap.

The perspective whether shareholders happy with iCap return will depend on their entry price those bought during IPO $1, at last traded price, 2.84, to them still okay. Those bought at 40% discounts, they still can smile. But those group aro $2 got stuck since 2012-2014, this group has plenty of grievances.

They are perfectly happy with the money can see but cannot touch.

So iCap at best it's only an oppotunistic play not a value play.

@dumbMoney - - when you convinced PNB the majority owndr and also a decision maker it's a rational thing to do especially of their embarrassing performance, you were welcomed with an open arm.

In iCap no clear major controlling shareholders like close to 50%, it's a very difficult to do. In the event of COL continue to buy till 50%, 70 million shares, at most it can overturn many ordinary resolutions but not special resolutions. Was not really sure what is COL exit strategy. They met with immovable rock and continue to double down may not be viable.

iCap still got many of top 30 shareholders loyal to TTB been through thick and thin. Also many uncles and aunties with 100 k shares. Though some exited or flip, it's still not enough to finish this worth dead than alive.

Stout iCap followers is treating it like a religion.

Yaya... By right I should be the one to be shot at sight but everytime dumbMoney kena kaw kaw... 😂😂

The way I see, it's NIH syndrome... NOT Invented Here Syndrome... Sometimes thing is the same, they like to differentiate for the sake of diffentiate. Value investing is value investing but why call bamboo value investing?

You see many people keep pointing out there are many alternatives in this iCap forum.... Cox they want to give alternatives.... Outside iCap, many oysters out day... Question is, are we open minded enough? Not need to stick to 1 guru, 1 style but bottomline must be grounded on fundamentals.

Many undervalued situations but fund managers at one time claim nothing to buy, stay with 50% cash

OSK was even more ridiculous, PE5, DY 5%, P/BK 0.50....

Calvin also posted JTiasa here, a fallen growth stock... Borrow a lot of miney to expand met with unlucky collapsed of CPO, workers and fertiliser costs.... Now it's a lot more favourable

😂😂

But make sure TTB don't suka suka do what he wants

After made enough money if iCap still sell for 40% discount... Park the money again in iCap... Buy at 40% discount sell at 20% discount cukup lo

Haha... The other way round... Should let dumbMoney manage... my was a fluke... Thanks to SSLee brought up the idea of Insas. I was skeptical at first but pure luck.

It just rocketed... In a bull market... Normal...

Nobody happy with Insas that sells at a deep discount...some try to push to unlock the value but with not much success. The owner was just passive.... Somehow sudden volume spike triggered the demand for such value play in our bolehland now.... Price is catching up with the value. There is also more awareness on such deep discounts exist attracts investors and speculators alike. Price goes up, price comes down, life goes on. The difference is these onwers will not claim they are better than the best - - an invitation to challenge. 😂😂

If he didn't take COL to the court, no drama.

If no escalation on SICDA, also no drama.

Drama was created by TTB.... If he didn't overblown the issues. The issue would have died after the AGM.

This remind me of an OB class on paradigm

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/paradigm-shift--352828952039869457/

Do we see a young lady or an old ug_ly lady?

This remind me of an OB class on paradigm

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/paradigm-shift--352828952039869457/

Do we see a young lady or an old ugly lady?

@dumbMoney, unfortunately, followers of TTB will see only 1 point, Lo proposed to convert from a closed end fund to open ended fund and ignoring the other points - it was not a performance problem but it was a liquidity(lack of demand) was the reason of discount between NAV to market price.

If you feel Lo with only 22,500 shares at that time, how much can he benefited? Do you think it is worthwhile he endures the shit for a few thousand ringgit?

what ever POP investment or COL want to do, it is their business. Personally, I am a capitalist, only 1 thing I concern, Return on Investment. Was glad to sell iCap and bought Insas and JTiasa, sitting nicely on 40% profit on Insas and 20% on JTiasa

It's the same fear mongering that TTB employs along your thinking...it must be hearing too much and too long from him...I believe we soon our shares in iCAP will go down to zero of which impossible to influence anything. you can be rest assured....

It's too speculative on your side keep hantam on the point of closing down fund or and etc....but you keep forgeting it needs 75% approval from shareholders which they don't have...why keep going round and round...

Patient Investor, even Pegge or Lo successful elected into the board in 2012, there still 3 directors from TTB side, so it will be 2-3 when comes to vote...still TTB side will win but there will be good check and balance

People got piss off ma....whoever successfully be able to get into nomination, be assured that they will receive votes.

In 2023, Loi Chee Foong and Yeoh Eng Kong tried to nominate themselves for a post of BOD but was stopped out. Too pity....I sure will cast my 1 share vote for them.

The board has been sleeping on the job or just no guts to stand up against TTB except day in day out stamp whatever TTB wants