Posted by Jay > 2018-11-17 19:10 | Report Abuse

@qqq3 pretty lame arguments you have so far, but at least that's a start. more discussions may be able to open up your mind better

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-11-17 19:36 | Report Abuse

scenario 1

1....The Edge never say that their scheme will replace traditional bank business in all cases...it is designed to solve a problem.
2...cashflow advantage is obvious....example as given by Edge...repayment of 5 years loan on 20% is smaller than rents and smaller than mortgage repayments.

scenario 2

downpayment 10% same instalment as down payment at 20%? who teach u?

( if u are trying to say developer will give u 10% discount on outright sales, no discounts on this platform.....then...u have to address this issue in another manner....for the purpose of comparison, the selling price should be the same....meaning the selling price on the platform is the same net selling price (after discounts) to a mortgage buyer...This will be one of the issues in a regulated exchange).

2.....so the guy want to buy with this platform...nothing wrong....

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-11-17 19:40 | Report Abuse

2.....so the guy want to buy with this platform...nothing wrong....by my calculation, there will be smart businessmen who will take a big block in this scheme, choose their properties properly......rent it out for 5 years and than make a lot of money.....it is all about business sense...and calculated risks and good business sense......

nothing beats business sense......

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-11-17 19:53 | Report Abuse

better still....a large portion of the repayment of 5 years loan is principal sum repayments....it becomes 20% equity in a house....

for the first 5 years of a mortgage loan, very little is principal sum repayments, most of it is interest.....

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-11-17 20:15 | Report Abuse

stay in parent house.....lol

not all cases can stay in parent house....got people from outstation, want to get married and stay in own house.

Posted by Jay > 2018-11-18 11:23 | Report Abuse

@qqq3
Scenario 1
1.if they guy qualifies for a mortgage, there's no problem for him, just up to his choice whether to buy or rent. FundMyHome is suppose to target those who can't qualify for mortgage. But they know if they put someone who earns RM2k in their example, the scenario won't work. The guy won't have the 20% nor will he qualify for a RM60k personal loan. So instead they choose someone who qualifies for mortgage in the example but slyly imply he only have FundMyHome or rental as his options

2. I'm not sure if you have poor eyesight or reading disability. There is no cashflow advantage even in the misleading example. Personal loan monthly payment is exactly the same RM1250 vs rental RM1250. And that's where they mislead you with personal loan interest of 5%. Average personal loan interest is 8% and above which means monthly payment of RM1400 and above. Mortgage would have been RM1370 (30 years) or RM1280 (35 years)

Scenario 2
1. again I suspect you have reading disability. FundMyHome example assume downpayment 20% for mortgage monthly payment would be RM1216. I put 10% downpayment monthly payment would be RM1370. how you see it as same is beyond me

2. if there's discount from developer, the comparison would be even more lopsided as I have shown in the second half of the article

Posted by Jay > 2018-11-18 11:31 | Report Abuse

@qqq3

1. smart businessman? business sense? I thought this scheme is supposed to help first time homebuyer? you are contradicting yourself now hahaha

2. no matter how you slice and dice the RM300k, if you don't have the cash you have to borrow. by borrowing you have to pay interest, it's only a matter of when. besides, personal loan carries much higher interest than mortgage if you are unaware

3. unfortunately if you are not ready to own a house, you have to find alternatives or adjust your expectations. either increase your income or lower the price range of the house you want to purchase. FundMyHome is just a financial product that creatively package itself as though there's no need for payment for 5 years (in actual you already paid the 20% upfront). It does not solve any affordability issues

Posted by Jay > 2018-11-18 11:36 | Report Abuse

in a way I must thank qqq3 for his/her blind support of this scheme. with every weak argument and rebuttal it's almost like a Q&A that reinforces the whole article's message

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-11-18 12:11 | Report Abuse

jay...your tables are a trickery...a sleigh of hand, not comparing like with like...
the favorable result from mortgage comes using a lower starting price than the scheme.....to compare two things, you got to compare both with same starting point....very dishonest of you.

don't know why you want to be so dishonest and just to argue in a forum and mislead people....for what?

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-11-18 12:12 | Report Abuse

( if u are trying to say developer will give u 10% discount on outright sales, no discounts on this platform.....then...u have to address this issue in another manner....for the purpose of comparison, the selling price should be the same....meaning the selling price on the platform is the same net selling price (after discounts) to a mortgage buyer...This will be one of the issues in a regulated exchange).

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-11-18 12:20 | Report Abuse

like I say...the platform is responsible for what it says...you are responsible to nobody...simply sleigh of hand to mislead people, nothing bad comes to you.

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-11-18 13:51 | Report Abuse

and on the 20% personal loan, the platform undertakes to help u secure it. I do not know what is the interest rate, but I assume it will be close to 5% as this is part of the deal and also to be treated as a secured loan to be secured on the 20% equity.

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-11-18 14:07 | Report Abuse

Fundmyhome is not a true p2p platform yet because at the moment, the investors are CIMB and Maybank. And it is not meant to be a monopoly.

After the issuance by SC of its guidelines, it will then be transformed into a true p2p platform.

This is exciting stuff. More options, more competition , more innovations and it will not stop here.

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-11-18 14:57 | Report Abuse

a lot of people who lost a lot of money in recent years on their mortgage loans also wished they had taken a 20% stake ( or better...zero stake) . These people not only lost all the deposits, lost their installments, they also owe the banks tonnes of money.


Mortgage loans with 10 X gearing works both ways...max profits also max losses.

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-11-18 16:36 | Report Abuse

superbull....I did not go to PJ forum...no need to go.....I am familiar enough....but this i3 forum ......too many idiots, too many critics.....they really need to open their mind....

options and choices especially options and choices in a regulated environment is always a good thing.......

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-11-18 16:55 | Report Abuse

yeah

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-11-18 17:01 | Report Abuse

I assume those who want to engage in debate have done some reading...but no help....

producing misleading tables with different starting points between mortgage and scheme is misleading and naughty.

Posted by Jay > 2018-11-18 18:04 | Report Abuse

@qqq3 not sure who's being dishonest here. I don't think anyone can be so blind so I'm assuming you have personal interest in ignoring the facts here.

Fact 1: first half of my article makes comparison based on SAME selling price and it's already showing FundMyHome's flaws.

Fact 2: second half of my article shows how reasonably a real world scenario could pan out and that shows even more lopsided comparison

Posted by Jay > 2018-11-18 18:09 | Report Abuse

@qqq3 if FundMyHome is so good in securing people with 20% personal loan with 5% interest, maybe they should help people in real life to get better mortgage interest rate. That way the buyers would qualify for a loan easily. That would be a real game changer for the country

Doesn't change the fact that you also need to be creditworthy enough to qualify for that 20% personal loan even with 5% interest. I have shown the calculations, another hard fact is if someone can afford RM1250 a month for an uncollaterised loan, then he would easily qualify for a RM1280 a month mortgage with the house as security

Posted by Jay > 2018-11-18 18:15 | Report Abuse

@qqq3 i would be concerned if it's a monopoly. but Tong admitted that the platform was his idea which subsequently crept into the Budget. which in days was also launched with the presence of none other than the PM and Minister of Finance. then there's pressure from the government to SC to come out with the framework asap.

I'm not against any businessmen having cozy relationship with the government, just that when they use that to gain unfair advantage over competitors (or potential competitors, since it's doubtful that anyone wants to cross a platform that somehow already gain endorsement from government without any prior public or stakeholder consultation), at least have the guts to admit it, instead of hiding behind spinners like qqq3 or continue to promote it with misleading examples

Posted by Jay > 2018-11-18 18:24 | Report Abuse

@qqq3

just a wild speculation, maybe you have a lot of properties which you are desperate to unload. because FundMyHome always claims that it is to assist home ownership (whether they mean it is another matter), but somehow your argument eventually will drift into property investment

if someone got themselves into mortgage loans in recent years which they can afford, it's impossible for them to lose any money (deposits or instalments). because they would still be owning the house and servicing their loans. and if they are genuine buyers, they would know that they are in for the long term and not too concerned even if short term price dips

if they are speculators, yes they would lose money if they suffer foreclosure on mortgage they couldn't service. that is exactly why no one should buy a house they cannot afford, 20% or 100%. FundMyHome and you are trying to creatively showing them otherwise

Posted by Jay > 2018-11-18 18:37 | Report Abuse

a financial product needs to be transparent. if your product is good then you can show the calculations as it is. when you need to present selective data or misleading calculations, I would be very sceptical no matter how you good you claim the product is

before my first article, I thought FundMyHome just wanted to offer an alternative for homebuyers. it may shortchange housebuyers but it's still an option. but then when they show those misleading calculations on advertisements, I started to be alarmed. that's why I needed to write this to help raise public awareness in case they got tricked into this

Posted by Jay > 2018-11-18 18:48 | Report Abuse

@qqq3 so now after i rebutted all your arguments, including how you try to spin that I show different fig (when the fact is you can't read properly), do you have any more wild spins to blindly defend your almighty scheme? or are you finally going to come out with some proper arguments to FACTUALLY challenge my articles?

but I don't blame you, it's tough to defend a porous scheme, just like how difficult it is for a lawyer to defend someone whom you know is guilty

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-11-18 18:53 | Report Abuse

Total payments

RM438k (in 30 years) mortgage

RM498k (in 35 years) scheme

Jay......u have not yet corrected your misleading table.....the two options should have same total payments if they start from same borrowings and same terms.....


( if u are trying to say developer will give u 10% discount on outright sales, no discounts on this platform.....then...u have to address this issue in another manner....for the purpose of comparison, the selling price should be the same....meaning the selling price on the platform is the same net selling price (after discounts) to a mortgage buyer...This will be one of the issues in a regulated exchange).

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-11-18 19:02 | Report Abuse

and on the issue of affordability and repayment of personal loan of 20%....well, if cannot get personal loan for 20% , then put in some money as capital from friends , from parents or from savings.....it is very flexible and manageable..eg put in 10% money, the personal loan installment is halved.

not so manageable in a 30 years term loan...a 30 years term loan has huge interest components and capital of $ 30k does not change mortgage installments that much.....

relevant too.......a large portion of the repayment of 5 years loan is principal sum repayments....it becomes 20% equity in a house....

for the first 5 years of a mortgage loan, very little is principal sum repayments, most of it is interest....

Posted by Jay > 2018-11-18 19:54 | Report Abuse

@qqq3 stop misleading yourself. that was the second half of the article whereby I show how real life it could have worked (not necessary, but likely). first half I already show you mortgage (RM492k 30 years) and P2P (RM498k 35 years). it's you who have selective reading problem

Posted by lizi > 2018-11-18 19:58 | Report Abuse

hahaha....qqq3, stop embarrassing yourself with personal loan, borrow money from friend, take parent old saving....what else? borrow from along loh....lol

Posted by Jay > 2018-11-18 20:09 | Report Abuse

@qqq3 you have some misplaced understanding on how loans actually work, don't you? borrowing RM300k over 30 years 4.5% interest or borrow RM60k 8% interest RM240k 4.5% interest , which one do you think pays more interest? I suggest using a loan calculator and the amortisation table, that would help your to have a clearer picture

but getting 10% from personal loan 10% from other sources does make cashflow sense (have to give you credit on that) because there indeed is reduced monthly cash outflow, for the first 5 years at least. but then again, you need to feed on parents or friends' money (may or may not need to be repaid) and ultimately you still have to pay more interest over the course of home ownership. it's enjoy first (first 5 years), suffer later (next 30 years)

Posted by Jay > 2018-11-18 20:14 | Report Abuse

@qqq3 I have already pointed out (at least a few times) that there's two comparison made, one using SAME price, one using prices that could happen in real life scenario. I can forgive you for the past few times if you miss that, but if you continue to falsely accuse me of misleading others, then it's clear that you have a malicious agenda here trying to confuse others

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-11-18 20:45 | Report Abuse

jay...in fact in reality, common sense will tell u installment payments on mortgage on 80% ( after 5 years) will be lower than the installment payments on 90% of the mortgage option....not your silly tables that shows the opposite effect.....

jay, u very naughty.....

Posted by abang_misai > 2018-11-18 21:11 | Report Abuse

good work Jay.

Posted by paperplane > 2018-11-18 21:47 | Report Abuse

Thanks Jay. You da man!

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-11-18 22:04 | Report Abuse

plane....u just being naughty.....u no brains and just want some publicity.

Posted by joetay1 > 2018-11-18 22:10 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-11-18 22:11 | Report Abuse

all these critics in i3...just want to be critics without understanding any thing....

joe...u bodoh or not?

Posted by joetay1 > 2018-11-18 22:14 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-11-18 22:20 | Report Abuse

joe...i can't stop u.....but i prefer u grow some brains.

Posted by lching > 2018-11-19 00:44 | Report Abuse

i would give Jay a like.

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-11-19 00:59 | Report Abuse

some people are born doers and leaders....people like Tong....

some, mainly lives in forums are arm chair critics....like this jay, plane, lizi, joe, iching....who else I miss?

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-11-19 01:15 | Report Abuse

jay...in fact in reality, common sense will tell u installment payments on mortgage on 80% ( after 5 years) will be lower than the installment payments on 90% of the mortgage option....not your silly tables that shows the opposite effect.....

jay, u very naughty.....

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-11-19 01:49 | Report Abuse

most salaried workers in Malaysia will have their salaries doubled from 25 to 30 and or doubled from 30 to 35.

smart bankers should give them bridging finance.....good for the economy, good for recovery, good for the bankers....good for everybody.

Posted by Jay > 2018-11-19 05:30 | Report Abuse

@qqq3 your common sense is funny. of course paying 80% is less than 90%. but are you expecting the difference of 10% to fall from the sky? now tell me, have you passed primary school mathematics?

if you stats is correct, there should be almost no B40 among those age above 35. I don't think govt stats support your claims and somehow it also doesn't jive with all the complaints around that salaries growth are stagnant among workers. there are already step up financing in place if you are looking for bridging finance, no need to rely on scheme that exploits you

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-11-19 07:23 | Report Abuse

Jay.... I refer to your silly table... how can paying off a 80 % loan for 30 years result in higher payments than paying off a 90% loan?

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-11-19 07:25 | Report Abuse

bottom line is critics like Jay is just playing with emotions and ignoring facts

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-11-19 07:45 | Report Abuse

most salaried workers in Malaysia will have their salaries doubled from 25 to 30 and or doubled from 30 to 35.

if u look around u, among the graduate and professional workers in Klang Valley...the above statement is true.....

statistics no use for targeted marketing, smart bankers do targeted marketing based on AI......and use brains like Tong's.

Tong is doing great national service in helping to revive the economy, I don't think the platform makes a lot of money out of this....It is more of a national service.

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-11-19 07:48 | Report Abuse

the terms of the platform are well thought out, fair to all stake holders......brilliant.

Posted by Jon Choivo > 2018-11-19 09:57 | Report Abuse

The 2 figures i didnt like from the edge was

1) Not discounting the 20% at all
2) Using only 5% of personal loan.

Posted by speakup > 2018-11-19 10:10 | Report Abuse

i dont like FundMyHome, but that's just me. Other ppl, please go ahead and support FundMyHome. Not my money anyway ;-)

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-11-19 10:30 | Report Abuse

jon...u don't think can get the 20% loan at 5% interest rate? I do.....I think CIMB and Maybank will give it to u as part of the deal....It is also a secured loan, to be secured on the 20% portion.

Posted by qqq3 > 2018-11-19 10:35 | Report Abuse

Jon Choivo > Nov 19, 2018 09:57 AM | Report Abuse

The 2 figures i didnt like from the edge was

1) Not discounting the 20% at all
============

jon..to the buyer, there is no 20% discount...but don't forget...the buyer don't have to pay interest on the 80% for first 5 years......and u get to stay there...no rental and no interest on the 80%..