Posted by probability > 2019-01-26 17:30 | Report Abuse

ok the objective is to sleep well at night..zzz

Posted by (S = QR) Philip > 2019-01-26 17:36 | Report Abuse

The objective is to not lose money. If you don't understand compounding of profits then it might be better not to do investments in stock market.

Posted by (S = QR) Philip > 2019-01-26 17:38 | Report Abuse

And its important to note there that everyone see PE and earnings as an OVERRIDING reason to buy a stock or its undervaluence.

No such thing. You need to understand a business first and foremost. Where it started. And where it is going. Then you make a play.

Posted by probability > 2019-01-26 17:39 | Report Abuse

Raider promoted at RM 3 i think, and now its about RM 5...thats like 70% gain in 2 years despite hitting RM 19 in between.

I think i need to state this again to those who are looking for great returns ''without the need'' to sleep well at night:


Posted by probability > Jan 21, 2019 09:46 AM | Report Abuse X

Flintstones,

(1) remember the take away from this article of Icon:

Investing can be very very short term:

https://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/icon8888/190807.jsp


(2) and note also the Speculating definition presented by 3iii:

The difference between investment and speculation, when the two are thus opposed, is understood in a general way by nearly everyone; but it can be difficult to formulate it precisely.

In fact something can be said for the cynic's definition that an investment is a successful speculation and a speculation is an unsuccessful investment.

Posted by (S = QR) Philip > 2019-01-26 17:40 | Report Abuse

Sadly, I also read through some of the irrationality and anger you put in when you were a shareholder in HY as well probability.

Luckily you learned and understood.

The other "investors"? They lost all their investments on margin calls and dissapeared from the forum forever.

I hope more new investors start learning that investing is more about watching paint dry than it is to drive a sportscar.

Posted by probability > 2019-01-26 17:46 | Report Abuse

No Mr,Philip,

there was nothing to learn for me, i had expected exactly what had happened all the while..

as usual, its always easy to express a person's viewpoint on hindsight.

these viewpoints has no value addition to me

Posted by (S = QR) Philip > 2019-01-26 17:48 | Report Abuse

Dear probability,

sure if you put it that way. But if you see a rocket ship going up that fast are you telling me you would have not bought more after quarterly reports? And would you have invested in it in the first place at RM3 after shell sold 51% of the business to china company below RM1.8 per share?

The hardest thing in investing to do is sometimes simply to just do nothing.

Posted by (S = QR) Philip > 2019-01-26 17:51 | Report Abuse

Although in all honesty, now would be the best time to invest in Hengyuan, after crude oil price crater again, and the fixing upper is almost done.

But again, market irrationality strikes.

Lets say you lost your pants to hengyuan before in 2018.

Would you "invest" this time in hengyuan?

Know your reasons why. Dont buy a stock just because Raider or KYY promoted it.

Posted by probability > 2019-01-26 17:54 | Report Abuse

no...i was simply keeping myself updated on latest development on micro and macroeconomics...and had made my decision accordingly with flow of time..

its like this...i view investing just like sailing to a destination...

i dont keep my sails on the same angle when i realize the wind direction changes...

as long as my decision to change the angle of sail results in net postive vector displacement to the destination...i am fine..and i always only promote and demote to others inline with my own decisions


Posted by (S = QR) Philip > Jan 26, 2019 05:48 PM | Report Abuse

Dear probability,

sure if you put it that way. But if you see a rocket ship going up that fast are you telling me you would have not bought more after quarterly reports? And would you have invested in it in the first place at RM3 after shell sold 51% of the business to china company below RM1.8 per share?

The hardest thing in investing to do is sometimes simply to just do nothing

Posted by probability > 2019-01-26 17:58 | Report Abuse

my decision to buy or sell are dependent on micro and macroeconomic developments as said above...it has nothing whatsoever to do with its current price comparison to historical or recent price...

your advise to keep investment to the type of stocks you know is fine...but prejudicing other type of investment decision to justify yours sounds uncalled for..



Posted by (S = QR) Philip > Jan 26, 2019 05:51 PM | Report Abuse

Although in all honesty, now would be the best time to invest in Hengyuan, after crude oil price crater again, and the fixing upper is almost done.

But again, market irrationality strikes.

Lets say you lost your pants to hengyuan before in 2018.

Would you "invest" this time in hengyuan?

Know your reasons why. Dont buy a stock just because Raider or KYY promoted it.

Posted by probability > 2019-01-26 18:01 | Report Abuse

Mr. Philip a lot of your other contents is fine...keep it up...me no issues....but need to clear my name a little...so others dont get the wrong message...

my full support to you on your blogging

Posted by (S = QR) Philip > 2019-01-26 18:04 | Report Abuse

Thanks, and very well noted. I don't think you need to clear up your name, your analysis was spot on on hengyuan after the tradewinds changed.

I just didn't agree on getting on the boat if raider is the promoter.

In fact, I refuse to get on any boat that raider is promoting. The day he promotes QL is the day I sell and jump ship.

Posted by Fortune Bull > 2019-01-26 18:25 | Report Abuse

Hihihaha! I like how this writer click bait me into reading this article! Really make my day!

Posted by (S = QR) Philip > 2019-01-26 18:45 | Report Abuse

Haha my apologies fortune bull.

I could have told you the answer at the beginning, but it would be too boring.

The secret to handling stress in a stressful environment is simple: just avoid it.

And if you are not stressed out, there would be no need to scream at people.

I hope you have a great weekend!

Posted by Sslee > 2019-01-26 19:24 | Report Abuse

Dear Mr. Philip,
Why (S=QR)?
I thought your favorite stock is QL not QR

Repost from How many stocks to own? kcchongnz
What are Q and R?
Is Q referring to quack, quack, and quack? I Google quack and the following come up.

quack1
noun: quack; plural noun: quacks
1. The characteristic harsh sound made by a duck.
"I heard a quack and saw some ducks huddled together"
verb
3rd person present: quacks
1. (of a duck) make a characteristic harsh sound.
"ducks quacked from the lake"
Informal: Talk loudly and foolishly.

quack2
noun: quack; plural noun: quacks
1. a person who dishonestly claims to have special knowledge and skill in some field, typically medicine.
"quack cures"
Synonyms: swindler, charlatan, mountebank, confidence trickster, fraud, fraudster, impostor, trickster, racketeer, hoaxer, sharper, rogue, villain, scoundrel
Informal: con man, shark, flimflammer

Thank you

Posted by KLCI Going Heaven > 2019-01-26 20:46 | Report Abuse

thanks uncle philip again

Posted by Fortune Bull > 2019-01-26 20:55 | Report Abuse

Posted by (S = QR) Philip > Jan 26, 2019 06:45 PM | Report Abuse

Haha my apologies fortune bull.

I could have told you the answer at the beginning, but it would be too boring.

The secret to handling stress in a stressful environment is simple: just avoid it.

And if you are not stressed out, there would be no need to scream at people.

I hope you have a great weekend!

Answer : Hihihaha! You know there are plenty of idiots want to make our lives stressful! Just don't argue with them if you want inner peace!

Posted by (S = QR) Philip > 2019-01-26 21:45 | Report Abuse

DEar SSlee,

for your kind reading:
https://ideas.ted.com/what-can-we-learn-from-people-who-succeed-later-in-life/

This gives old people like me much hope!

Posted by stockraider > 2019-01-26 22:35 | Report Abuse

For someone who don really understand what is margin of safety investment, and claiming Goreng stock like Aokam & Renong as margin of safety stock & investing in it big at its goreng height, certainly in not in a qualify position, to comment on investment with safety of investment principal mah....!!

In addition Mr Long, predicting hengyuan can go Rm 12.00 when it is now below rm 5.00, but then why talk bad at this stock leh ??

I think Mr Long, very smart and deceptive & hedging his bet loh...he is betting both side mah, head he wins and tail he wins....normally circus magician will do that type of stunt mah..!!

Posted by (S = Qr) Philip > Jan 26, 2019 05:25 PM | Report Abuse

I'm predicting RM12 in 5 years for Hengyuan, on the back of their chinaman style of doing upgrading works at cheaper prices than western companies. I'm also predicting it based on low prices of crude oil in hengyuan, and hopefully a delay in competitiveness of RAPID.

But would I buy this company? Definitely not.

(S = Qr) Philip
291 posts
Posted by (S = Qr) Philip > Jan 26, 2019 05:29 PM | Report Abuse

The problem is, people who buy too many stocks without thoroughly understanding the business that they are in intimately, tend to become too irrational and try to make numbers suit the story that they have built in their heads, instead of the other way around.

With all respect for an elder, KYY is one such example. He had a great system, but thought that he was better than his system, and invested in multiple companies at bigger margin multiples than was his circle of competency, in terms of financially as well as business sense.

In the end he wiped out years of smartly built capital gain in one jaks.

But as I believe he has a great Q x R ratio. He will definitely be back and more focused than ever.

I know, I've been there.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-01-26 23:03 | Report Abuse

Posted by stockraider > Jan 25, 2019 12:58 AM | Report Abuse X

RAIDER SUSPECT, THIS MR LONG UNFORTUNATELY IS HIT BY BAD LUCK, THATS WHY HE IS NOT SUCCESSFUL USING MARGIN OF SAFETY LOH...ALOT OF RAIDER CLOSE FRIENDS ARE USING THIS METHOD SUCCESSFULLY LOH....!!

The problem with Stockraider is he thinks I am a rookie and have never tried his investing methods. Guess where I was in the 90's? Watching and reading security analysis and intelligent investor just like him. Did you know security analysis changed the theories, examples and applications for every edition based on latest data? I know, I've read every edition to try to understand the differences of investing in the the thirties (first edition), the fifties (third edition) and the late eighties ( sixth edition). Now why did I do that?

THE OTHER THING RAIDER NOTICE IS MR LONG IS CONFUSE LOH...WHY DO U NEED TO READ EVERY EDITION LEH ?? JUST USE THE LATEST EDITION MAH..!!
AGAIN THIS MR LONG GOT DISTRACTED LOH, WHY MARGIN OF SAFETY INVESTMENT GOT TO DO WITH STOCK TRADING LEH ??
U JUST BUY UNDERVALUE WITH BIG MARGIN OF SAFETY & WAIT FOR RERATING OVER PERIOD UPTO MAX 3 YRS LOH...!!
WHY DO U NEED TO READ TA AND CHARTS LEH ??
I THINK MR LONG AGAIN GOT CONFUSE HERE LOH...!

I was realizing when I tried technical analysis to trade stocks that I found a counter pattern. Each time I tried a new indicator that worked, after a few weeks and months suddenly the trade signals would change on me and I went from making money to losing money again.

AGAIN U NEED TO UNDERSTAND LOH...MARGIN OF SAFETY INVESTMENT CAN APPLY TO PENNY STOCK AS WELL AS QUALITY STOCK MAH...!!
THE BEST & IDEAL U GET IS A PENNY STOCK BUT SUBSEQUENTLY BECOME A QUALITY STOCK BCOS OF GOOD PERFORMANCE LOH...!!
RAIDER ASK LAH...IST THING IF U R SELLING 80% IS IT NOT A CHALLENGE FOR U LEH ??
TAKE RAIDER SELLING INSAS PREVIOUSLY AT RM 1.10 THE NTA WAS RM 1.70, EFFECTIVELY AT 65& T0 THE INTRINSIC VALUE MAH...!!
U CANNOT BE TOO GREEDY & WANTING 80% OF NTA, BCOS THE BUYER NEED TO CARI MAKAN ALSO MAH...!!

RAIDER ALREADY MAKE 2 BAGGERS OVER 2 TO 3 YRS, IT IS OK TO GIVE HIM A DISCOUNT LOH..!!
WHEN UR STOCK DROP FROM 80% TO 50% & 20%...U NEED TO CHECK WHETHER U BOUGHT UR SHARE WRONGLY, LIKE IT MAY HAS TOO MUCH DEBTS AND ITS BUSINESS CANNOT SUSTAINED OR IT IS A FRAUDULENT BUSINESS LIKE XINGUAN....IN THIS CASE U SHOULD CUT WAY AHEAD LOH...!!
IF AFTER UR THROUGH ASSESSMENT U STILL FEEL MKT IS VERY WRONG THEN BUY MORE LOH...IS AN OPPORTUNITY MAH...LIKE THE CASE OF INSAS TODAY MAH..!

I CAN ASSURE U THE CURRENT INSAS DO NOT HAVE THE PROBLEM U HAVE MENTIONED, BCOS IT PASS ALL THE TEST BY RAIDERS WITH FLYING COLORS MAH..!!

Then I realized something. Each time I tried margin of safety value buying, it always seemed I was buying a penny stock. When I set my stock selling at 80% of intrinsic value, the market changed on me at 50%. When I started selling at 50%, things changed on me at 20% intrinsic.

IF SYNDICATE CAN GORENG, THAT MEANS IT IS NOT A MARGIN OF SAFETY STOCK, U SHOULD TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SELL, WHEN THEY GORENG UPWARDS LOH..!!

I may have been too blind to realize it, but penny stocks are subject to syndicate behaviour. And obviously they too know exactly what is a cigar butt. They used it every day to make money off idiots like me.

RAIDER ASK U LOH...IF U R WILLING TO HOLD STOCKS FOR GROWTH FOR 10 YRS...I M SURE U CAN ALSO DO ALRIGHT WELL AS A MARGIN OF SAFETY INVESTORS, BCOS THE TIME FRAME FOR RERATING IS EVEN SHORTER AT AROUND 3 YRS LOH..!!

U GET IT WRONG ON MARGIN OF SAFETY INVESTMENT, BCOS U USE THE WRONG ASSESSMENT TECH LOH....!!

Posted by stockraider > 2019-01-26 23:04 | Report Abuse

For those that remember the Asian financial crisis of 97, I was there. Imagine multiple hengyuans being sold at low pe, high nta, big asset base. You were making good money buying basically anything and everything.

DID U CHECK THE DEBT OF AOKAM & RENONG LEH ??
IT IS GOING TOWARDS BANKRUPTCY MAH...!!
HOW CAN U CLAIM AOKAM IS A MARGIN OF SAFETY STOCK, WHEN IT IS A HIGH RISK POPULAR GORENG STOCK, WITH VERY HIGH GORENG VOLUME EVERYDAY AND HIGH SHARE PRICE AND CORNERED BY SYNDICATE LOH..!!
And even until the end, aokam perdana had huge nta with 10,000 hectares of timber land. Renong with its plant assets far far more than its bankruptcy price. Etc etc.

U WRONGLY INTERPRETED THE CONCEPT OF MARGIN OF SAFETY LOH...IF U CAN GET LOUSY STOCK LIKE AOKAM WRONG AS A MARGIN OF SAFETY STOCK MAH...!!
My point being high margin of "safety" stocks only seem safe, until it's not.

HENGYUAN I ALREADY HIGHLIGHT THE "LESSON LEARN MAH, I HOPE U CAREFULLY READ IT IN ORDER TO GET PROPER INVESTMENT PERSPECTIVE LOH..!!
BUT HENGYUAN RISING FROM RM 3 TO 19, THEN FALL BACK TO RM 5.00, ACTUALLY ALOT OF PEOPLE ALREADY MAKE MONIES COMPARE TO LOSE MAH..!! RAIDER INITIATE SELL CALL AT RM 13.00 MAH...!!

Did you think hengyuan at 18 had high margin of safety? PLS REFER ABOVE.

XINGUAN IS A FRAUDULENT CASE, RAIDER WAS NOT CAUGHT AT ALL BY XINGUAN, BCOS RAIDER RADAR ALREADY FLASH NO...NO...NO...!!
SSLEE GOT CAUGHT BCOS HE WAS IMPRESSED BY KYY, HENCE FOLLOW HIM LOH..!!
Did you think xingquan with oodles of cash has high margin of safety?
Think about it. If you really wanted to, you could turn numbers around to mean anything you want.

NO U DON GO FOR COMPANY DOING BADLY...U BUY STOCKS THAT IS BIG MISPRICE BY VALUATION LIKE THE CASE OF INSAS LOH...!!
INSAS IS ONE OF THE BEST MARGIN OF SAFETY EXAMPLE U CAN FIND NOW LOH..!!
If a company is doing badly and the shares tank, it could mean that it's undervalued. But it can also mean that the business prospects changed and it's going to go bankrupt soon, right?

Posted by stockraider > 2019-01-26 23:05 | Report Abuse

RAIDER IS HAPPY U FOUND GROWTH INVESTMENT AND U R COMPETENT WITH IT LOH...!!

Posted by 10154899906070843 > Jan 24, 2019 11:54 PM | Report Abuse

But to be perfectly honest, my personal investment life changed after I stopped looking for undervalued cigar butts and decided to look for undervalued premium growth companies.

I can literally say I made millions participating in the long term, compounded performance of good companies.

I will not say if my method is better or Stockraider method is wrong, because that would be silly. To be honest we are both doing the same thing, looking for the margin of safety in a stock.

The difference is where we do the looking.

RAIDER DO NOT WANT TO BOAST LOH...BUT BASED ON 3iii PERFORMANCE OVER 10 YRS...AND ON YR BY YR COMPARISON...RAIDER BEAT HIM MOST OF THE TIME EVERY YEAR EXCEPT 2018 LOH...!!
IF U ASK ME...WHETHER I HAVE MONIES OR NOT..?? I CAN SAY I M VERY COMFORTABLE WITH FINANCE LOH...!!

AS USUAL IF UR CHALLENGE OF GIVING RM 1 MILLION TO CHARITY IS SINCERE, RAIDER ADVICE U PUT UR MONIES IN DEPOSITS WITH LAWYER IN ESCROW ACCOUNT, AND RAIDER WILL COME OVER TO PROVE, IT CAN BE DONE LOH..!!.

If Stockraider can look sslee,3iii and me in the eye and say he made millions by investing in his cigar butt way, I will immediately cut a 1 million dollar cheque to a charity of his choice.

Posted by Sslee > 2019-01-26 23:07 | Report Abuse

Dear Mr. Philip,
Thank you for the below link:
https://ideas.ted.com/what-can-we-learn-from-people-who-succeed-later-in-life/
r: “Random idea”
Q: “Ability to turn an idea into a discovery/useful product.”
S = Qr
Hence success is the product of an idea “r” meets with “Q” the ability of turning idea into a great discovery/great product/great business
Or in common saying success occurs when preparation meets opportunity.
Totally agree with you.

Thank you

Posted by probability > 2019-01-26 23:17 | Report Abuse

nicely put in simple words..

Posted by Sslee > Jan 26, 2019 11:07 PM | Report Abuse

Or in common saying success occurs when preparation meets opportunity.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-01-26 23:18 | Report Abuse

SSlee,

Put it this way...if u interpret this way...ur INSAS could be your QR bcos u had done intensive & extensive research on it mah...!!


Posted by Sslee > Jan 26, 2019 11:07 PM | Report Abuse

Dear Mr. Philip,
Thank you for the below link:
https://ideas.ted.com/what-can-we-learn-from-people-who-succeed-later-...
r: “Random idea”
Q: “Ability to turn an idea into a discovery/useful product.”
S = Qr
Hence success is the product of an idea “r” meets with “Q” the ability of turning idea into a great discovery/great product/great business
Or in common saying success occurs when preparation meets opportunity.
Totally agree with you.

Thank you

Posted by (S = Qr) Philip > 2019-01-26 23:31 | Report Abuse

I have stopped listening to stockraider ever since I realized he is a broken record. Just because I put a TP of 12 does not mean I have to act on it. I am fine with my full capital allocated right now in the 5 stocks I own.

All I am is agreeing with Icon888 and looking at the growth factors inherent in hengyuan to achieve above average return.

However I am not looking for above average return. I am spending the balance of my life perfecting my chosen craft in businesss valuation and I am looking for outperformance, instead of above average return.

You by your own admission am not looking for outperformance in INSAS and merely a rerating of your fundamental valuation of INSAS. It probably will work out as you seem confident about it. You can go about looking for your above average return.

I wont live forever, I prefer to make the best use of what time I have in finding and choosing the best stock, then act. I enjoy finding a good company grow into a great one, and be proud of being the shareholder who kept the faith.

Youung ciku like you will never understand. I'll stop wasting my time replying trolls like you from now on.

Posted by (S = Qr) Philip > 2019-01-26 23:35 | Report Abuse

Dear SSLee,

Great that you liked it! It gives old men like me some form of security that I can compete with the young smart ciku in the realm of investing. Success has nothing to do with age, and everything to do with trying out everything, learning, reading and updating oneself until the day opportunity comes, then strike!

>>>>
Dear Mr. Philip,
Thank you for the below link:
https://ideas.ted.com/what-can-we-learn-from-people-who-succeed-later-...
r: “Random idea”
Q: “Ability to turn an idea into a discovery/useful product.”
S = Qr
Hence success is the product of an idea “r” meets with “Q” the ability of turning idea into a great discovery/great product/great business
Or in common saying success occurs when preparation meets opportunity.
Totally agree with you.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-01-26 23:36 | Report Abuse

U need to undertand, just the rerating of insas could mean a 2 to 3 baggers within a period of less than 3 yrs mah...!!

This is bcos of huge undervaluation and margin of safety mah...!!

Posted by (S = Qr) Philip > Jan 26, 2019 11:31 PM | Report Abuse

I have stopped listening to stockraider ever since I realized he is a broken record. Just because I put a TP of 12 does not mean I have to act on it. I am fine with my full capital allocated right now in the 5 stocks I own.

All I am is agreeing with Icon888 and looking at the growth factors inherent in hengyuan to achieve above average return.

However I am not looking for above average return. I am spending the balance of my life perfecting my chosen craft in businesss valuation and I am looking for outperformance, instead of above average return.

You by your own admission am not looking for outperformance in INSAS and merely a rerating of your fundamental valuation of INSAS. It probably will work out as you seem confident about it. You can go about looking for your above average return.

I wont live forever, I prefer to make the best use of what time I have in finding and choosing the best stock, then act. I enjoy finding a good company grow into a great one, and be proud of being the shareholder who kept the faith.

Youung ciku like you will never understand. I'll stop wasting my time replying trolls like you from now on.

Posted by lazycat > 2019-01-27 00:16 | Report Abuse

mr phil , what's your view on ihh?
do u think it deserve such high valuation?

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-01-27 01:32 | Report Abuse

sslee....I suggest you go check the date and time of this before u go off spewing your nonsense.........


https://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/qqq3/191536.jsp

better still, understand the under lying principles......

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-01-27 01:36 | Report Abuse

sslee....and it has nothing to do with preparation meets opportunity....quite the opposite...it talks about talents and skill...and some have it, some don't....and you sslee...surely don't.....

https://www.inc.com/jessica-stillman/physicists-have-discovered-a-formula-for-success-it-contains-a-brutal-truth-most-people-dont-want-to-admit.html

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-01-27 01:42 | Report Abuse

Hengyuan...The buying volume from $ 19 to now is also very high.....and most of the buyers lost money......surely i3 people lost more money on Hengyuan than they care to admit......

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-01-27 01:45 | Report Abuse

who lost money on Hengyuan?...the PE people...

the business sense people avoided losing money in Hengyuan......

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-01-27 01:51 | Report Abuse

Posted by lazycat > Jan 27, 2019 12:16 AM | Report Abuse

mr phil , what's your view on ihh?
do u think it deserve such high valuation?
============

cat...IHH is traded by professionals.....and Khazanah can sell big blocks to other professionals at very small discounts. Its their game.

Posted by (S = Qr) Philip > 2019-01-27 08:02 | Report Abuse

I don't really like high capex businesses like hospitals where the key ingredient specialist doctors are in short supply. That's like the the jet fuel of private hospitals.

I don't know about you, but the only reason why I go to private hospitals other than because general hospitals are badly maintained death houses is because I have my private doctors and recommendation by close friends.

Note how we never choose private hospitals because of the brand name, we choose it because of the reputation of the doctors in the hospitals.

That basically means you have to spend a lot of money to grow a little bit, no pricing power, no ability to grow the business consistently. Not enough specialist doctors.

I don't like buying any big hospitals or clinics. If you look at the growth of similar comps like KPJ and TMCLIFE, you will notice that most of them are overvalued dinosaurs with high pe (KPJ is lowest of the group) where investors buy because they thought that because private hospitals charge so high they make a lot of money.

They don't.

I wouldn't touch ihh. They have been making mistake after mistake and utilizing shareholder equity in horrible ways. The management is horrible

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-01-27 10:11 | Report Abuse

the key word cat used is deserved....what is deserved or not deserved?

if a share is very liquid and done by professionals and not syndicates....what u see is what u get......the concept of deserve or not does not arise.

would u buy? that is a different issue....

Posted by stockraider > 2019-01-27 11:57 | Report Abuse

Raider advice stop wasting time on overvalue stocks like QL and IHH loh, these are risky investment, endangering ur hard earned wealth & ur own family finances mah....!!

If u want to invest make sure u only pay a fairvalue for this kind of stocks and not overpaying for it loh...!!

Do not get trick by a false sense of security, just bcos the stock is up loh...!!

Posted by stockraider > 2019-01-27 12:50 | Report Abuse

Thats why i m saying u r not that smart loh...Mr long loh...!!

If u buy insas even if no growth say u get 4% yield pa....but u pay rm 0.70 for rm 2.54 worth of assets mah...!!

Thus rm 2.54 x 4% pa ur return is rm 0.10 per share loh...!! Rm 0.10 per share profit on insas agst ur investment cost of rm 0.70 already got yield or return on investment of 14% pa...so u chinchai already got 14% return every year loh...!!

So there are 3 potential gain on insas if u buy cheap mah;
1. The discount of rm 2.54 for rm 0.70 u already save rm 1.84 per share
2. U getting fixed about 0.10 cashflow...that give u yield 14% pa.
3. There is some potential for earnings growth loh..!!

Compare QL
For Ql u get less than 1% pa div yield & PE 50x....that will require about 50 yrs to 1000 yrs to get back ur capital...yes u can rely on growth but how much & how long it require to catch up with insas leh ??

For all u may know....it will never catch up loh...!!

Conclusion
Insas value is already there mah...!!

For QL u hope ur value can grow & grow to catch up with insas loh...!!
But insas already there & far ahead of u mah....!!

Posted by stockraider > 2019-01-27 12:52 | Report Abuse

Posted by stockraider > Jan 14, 2019 01:51 PM | Report Abuse X

Posted by 10154899906070843 > Jan 14, 2019 12:53 PM | Report Abuse

Sslee is far far smarter, at least he also looks at the business point of view and the net profit. For me to value your items let me put it into perspective: Now that i have a closer look at insas:

1. What is INSAS m&a securities market share of investors? how fast is it growing, how fast are its competitors (TA, JUPITER, MAYBANK, HL,) in fact, skip that, just take insas m&a securities and compare it to rakuten securities. for scuttlebutters, which service do you use? do you use insas? if you dont, why not? will you use insas margin loans and services ins the future?
IN BUSINESS U HAVE PLAYERS...IS OK MAH...AS LONG AS U MAKE GOOD PROFITS SO WHAT IS THE PROBLEM LOH...!! DON TELL ME QL BUSINESS NO COMPETITOR LOH?

2. insas credit and leasing. they do a lot of mezzanine financing and development project financing. if even hong leong and public bank BALK at lending to developers and leave banks liks mbsb to do mezzanine and project financing. just compare the performance of developer lenders like mbsb to know the long term performance of insas credit & leasing. the key thing to learn for banking is that it is very low margin, and it only work if you have huge capital to play with. thats why majority of banks have a saving account program, because that is free money to borrow out. Does insas have free money to play with that they do not need to pay off (preferred shares, interest expenses etc) 1 billion ringgit in cash is barely enough to grow (refer rcecap).
AGAIN HOW MANY LOAN SHARK HAS THE KNACK OF INSAS LEH ?? PEOPLE LIKE HONG LEONG BANK & PBANK NO BALLS TO LEND BIG IN THIS AREA LOH..!! PEOPLE LIKE RCE AND MBSB MALAY CORP & MANAGEMENT HOW GOOD ARE THEY TO LEND & COLLECT BACK LEH ??

3. past performance does not equal future results. yes midvalley was a steal, but in your 10 years of monitoring insas have they ever bought more high value growth building with that 900 million cash? in fact, try selling those buildings in this depressed market, will you get fair value for them? just like trying to sell you 0.69 insas shares for rm 3. Any takers? WHO SAYS INSAS DID NOT MAKE SUPER GOOD THEIR MONIES THEY BOUGHT INSAS A SUPERB BLOCK BUSTER AND HAS APPRECIATED MORE THAN 1000% MAH....!!

4. inari shares? try offloading 20% of inari shares, do you think you can get fair value for them when big investors are not buying it from you for rm2.5? in the end it is liquid but not cash. If insas management decides to hold on to inari even when you spot bad weather ahead, it will drop from 2.5 to 1.41. And there is nothing you can do about it as a minority shareholder. As an investor in INSAS, you should not be worried about the value of inari, but more of the question of what insas is going to do with using the value of inari in growing insas share price and dividend increase. A simple recourse, sell inari shares, buy back insas shares and increas divided for insas shareholders. This is not being done, are the management reasons for this inligned with insas shareholder value. I say no.ASK YOURSELF WITH QL PAYING DIV LESS THAN 1% PA AND PE 50X CAN U GET BIG BUYERS TAKING FROM U AT HIGH PRICE LEH ??
THE SAME PRINCIPLE APPLIES MAH....BUT INSAS PEOPLE ARE SAVVY INVESTORS THEY MANAGE TO OFFLOAD 6% INARI WHEN THE PRICE IS RIGHT MAH..!!

5. anyone who buys shares in a property developer like hohup with margins that they do is doing something wrong. I could throw a rock and hit a developer with better net margins. even CalvinTan sifu could give you a list of 10 property developer stocks with better profit margins. And why not? With 350 million in borrowings to do their property management (sales of their goldedn wave in sabah, KK at rm1300 psqft is not doing well) what profit margin can you find when they are paying heavy interest payments. and answer me this, how much is omesti paying hohup to rent their office space?
NOT WRONG LOH...IT IS STRATEGIC BUY MAH.! TODATE HOHUP IS MAKING MONIES & CONTRIBUTING TO PROFIT MAH...!!

Posted by stockraider > 2019-01-27 12:53 | Report Abuse

6. that cash is not cash in the regular sense of financial reports. You should use it the same way as valuing a bank, it is a liability, a finished product that insas sells via its m&a securities, credit & leasing. oxygen to fund its margin loans, executables, and more importantly underwrite an ipo. For example, in 2014, m&a securities did an ipo for carimin petroleum where they have to underwrite and make sure there are enough buyers for carimin stock. to do this, they sold preferred shares and warrants (raised 174 million), a sum of which they used to execute this stock ipo. Now, how often do you get insas to do your ipo's for you? only for small companies and low risk. And there is always a risk involved in underwriting. If things go south, do you think it becomes just cash again?
INSAS IS NOT BANK MAH....EVEN IT IS BANK...IT HAS A VERY BIG MARGIN OF SAFETY WITH MORE THAN RM 300 MILLION CASH OR RM 0.70 PER SHARE & EQUAL TO ITS SHARE PRICE OF O.70...!!

THE CASH IS KING WITH RM 300M NETT CASH INSAS IS SITTING PRETTY LOH...!!

Posted by stockraider > 2019-01-27 12:59 | Report Abuse

BUYING INSAS IS LIKE ACTING VERY STRATEGIC & SAVVY MAH....!!

Remember this investment maxim mah...!!

Posted by stockraider > Jan 13, 2019 03:06 PM | Report Abuse X

RAIDER AGREE SHARE IS CHEAP FOR A REASON LOH...!!

BUT U MUST THEN ASK THE NEXT VERY INTELLIGENT QUESTION, IS IT CHEAP FOR THE RIGHT REASON OR CHEAP FOR THE WRONG REASON MAH.??..!!

IF IT IS CHEAP FOR THE WRONG REASON U MUST BUY LOH....BCOS PEOPLE DON UNDERSTAND THE BIG MARGIN OF SAFETY THERE LOH....SO WE MUST BUY BIG BIG IN FACT VERY BIG LOH...!!

IN A WAY INSAS HATHWAY CURRENT SHARE PRICE AT RM 0.705 IS A VERY BIG OPPORTUNITY MAH...!!

Insas hathway is like berkshire hathway same same mah....!!

Insas will be rerated very soon loh....!!

Don miss this wonderful opportunity loh....!!

Insas has the positive points;
1.It has Huge margin of safety with NTA rm 2.54 v share price rm 0.705.
2. It pays good div of rm 0.02 given div yield close to 3% pa slightly better yield than nestle loh...!!
3. It has nett cash of Rm 300 million giving it, cash per share of rm 0.70, in fact if u buy insas now at rm 0.705, u almost getting the whole insas for free loh..!!
4. Insas has unbroken 10 yrs track record of making profit between rm 0.06 to rm 0.30 per share.
5. it hass 10 yr compound rate of return of 12% pa growing its nta from rm 1.10 per share to rm 2.54 per share loh...!!
6. The business model of insas is like warren buffet berkshire hathway very impressive but unlike berkshire, it is minus the expensive share premium u need to pay in the case of berkshire loh..!!
7. Insas is really msian berkshire hathway loh....in simple term u may call it insas hathway loh....!!

Posted by 10154899906070843 > Jan 13, 2019 01:14 PM | Report Abuse

Well said. When a stock is cheap, look for the reason a stock is cheap.

If a stock is cheap for a temporary reason, then it becomes value investing.

If a stock is cheap for a permanent reason, then it becomes a value trap.

When you look at the situation if INSAS, you come to the question:

When can I reasonably expect the temporary undervaluation of INSAS to be resolved to it's proper price?

If your answer is I don't know when it will resolve, how it who will resolve it, or why would they?

Then you are better off not owning INSAS.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-01-27 12:59 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by stockraider > 2019-01-27 13:01 | Report Abuse

Look carefully at insas hathway 10 years of uninterrupted profit with compound growth of 12% pa mah....selling for almost for free mah..!!

U understand value or not ??

Insas is a truly a msian berkshire hathway it has shown growth good time & bad time just that msian don know how to evaluate mah...!!

Just look at the amazing growth track record of value creation of insas

Sept 2018- Nta rm 2.54

Dec 2017..Nta rm 2.49

Dec 2016 ...Nta Rm 2.18

Dec 2015..Nta Rm 1.96

Dec 2014..Nta rm 1.82

Dec 2013 nta..rm 1.71

Dec 2012 nta ..rm 1.51

Dec 2011 nta..rm 1.38

Dec 2010 nta...rm 1.22

Dec 2009 nta ..rm 1.14

Now if u look at the above over 10 yrs...insas has been creating value with growth every yr without fail with gain of rm 0.06 to rm 0.30 per yr without failed mah...!!

For the 10 yrs insas equity has grown from rm 1.14 to rm 2.54 per share an amazing rate of return growth exceeding exceeding 12% pa loh...!!

Posted by stockraider > 2019-01-27 13:05 | Report Abuse

DEAR Sslee,

General Raider as a friend n your allies would like to correct your lack of confidence and your humble thoughts in respect of Insas loh..!!

Why must u reluctant to recommend the INSAS hathway gem to your sibling leh ??
In fact u should feel proud...very proud n not ashame to recommend insas hidden gem to anybody.

General Raider is very proud of insas n has started recommended to friends, relatives, i3 readers and the whole Pudu market bcos raider know insas will make good monies loh...!!

Remember this fundamental loh...!!

RAIDER AGREE SHARE IS CHEAP FOR A REASON LOH...!!

BUT U MUST THEN ASK THE NEXT VERY INTELLIGENT QUESTION, IS IT CHEAP FOR THE RIGHT REASON OR CHEAP FOR THE WRONG REASON MAH.??..!!

IF IT IS CHEAP FOR THE WRONG REASON U MUST BUY LOH....BCOS PEOPLE DON UNDERSTAND THE BIG MARGIN OF SAFETY THERE LOH....SO WE MUST BUY BIG BIG IN FACT VERY BIG LOH...!!

IN A WAY INSAS HATHWAY CURRENT SHARE PRICE AT RM 0.705 IS A VERY BIG OPPORTUNITY MAH...!!

Insas hathway is like berkshire hathway same same mah....!!

Insas will be rerated very soon loh....!!

Don miss this wonderful opportunity loh....!!

Insas has the positive points;
1.It has Huge margin of safety with NTA rm 2.54 v share price rm 0.705.
2. It pays good div of rm 0.02 given div yield close to 3% pa slightly better yield than nestle loh...!!
3. It has nett cash of Rm 300 million giving it, cash per share of rm 0.70, in fact if u buy insas now at rm 0.705, u almost getting the whole insas for free loh..!!
4. Insas has unbroken 10 yrs track record of making profit between rm 0.06 to rm 0.30 per share.
5. it hass 10 yr compound rate of return of 12% pa growing its nta from rm 1.10 per share to rm 2.54 per share loh...!!
6. The business model of insas is like warren buffet berkshire hathway very impressive but unlike berkshire, it is minus the expensive share premium u need to pay in the case of berkshire loh..!!
7. Insas is really msian berkshire hathway loh....in simple term u may call it insas hathway loh....!!

Posted by stockraider > 2019-01-27 13:10 | Report Abuse

Posted by calvintaneng > Oct 2, 2018 08:40 PM | Report Abuse

INSAS IS INSANELY SUPER SOLID AND SUPER VALUE

WILL WITHSTAND ANY TSUNAMI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy8yS2mUEpA

Posted by stockraider > 2019-01-27 13:13 | Report Abuse

Posted by calvintaneng > Aug 11, 2018 10:57 AM | Report Abuse

Insas is not just growth and dividend stock. Among all Stock Brokering firms Insas has the Highest Latent & hidden value. Far more than Osk/rhb, Affin-hwang, Kaf-seagroat, KN Kenanga, Olympia, Hl Cap, Bj Cap. Only TA can come close to Insas in terms of Deepest value by virtue of its stake in Tagb.

If you think of the value of precious matters in comparison like gold, platinum, silver or nickle Insas is both gold & platinum.

The only surprise is the market chase inferior metals rather than high value Insas because it is not part of the goreng radar.

Let value investors buy value while goreng gang go a-gambling.

Eventually all Value Investors will be as successful as Warren Buffet

Posted by (S = Qr) Philip > 2019-01-27 22:15 | Report Abuse

Stockraider please stop polluting my blog and other readers with you force spam. If you want to spam please start your own blog and talk ask the nonsense you want.

You have already been proven to be a average investor with limited foresight and low quality analysis.

Please don't waste everyones time here, loh!

Posted by stockraider > 2019-01-27 22:30 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Fabien Extraordinaire > 2019-01-28 15:23 | Report Abuse

wonder how many got blew up by HY. classic case of regression to the mean.

at least, some of the optimists quoted by Phillip are still around in I3..

Posted by Fabien Extraordinaire > 2019-01-28 15:36 | Report Abuse

unlike Mr.Phillip, my problem is i always sell "too early". I am in early but unable to fully exploit the full potential of quality companies..i took advantage of market multiple expansion and sold

case in point, i sold QL, Dialog & Padini at >100%. I could have ride on and gain mutlibagger...200%, 300% etc etc