Posted by bestreturn > 2018-03-22 15:39 | Report Abuse

If you really want to earn profit in shares (that is capital gain + dividend). Go for Nestle, Dutchlady. But mind you, the annual dividend is very low. So it's like this, there's no perfect share out there. You want high dividend yield, you get low capital gain or even high capital loss. But if you want steady capital grow over long term period, you get low dividend yield. Just like buying a landed property vs condo. Landed property is low rental yield but long term capital gain. Condo is high dividend yield but no capital gain or even capital loss. So deal with it. It's the real world. You want high capital grow, invest in cryptos with the potential 10X capital gain but then again, you might loss you capital as well. Welcome to the real world.

Posted by chiahow80 > 2018-03-22 16:17 | Report Abuse

bestreturn, you are right, there is not zero risk and sure win concept in investment world. It is ridiculous if investor need to check back the record all the way up to IPO before go in one DY stock. I go in when I think the price is low enough, if cont fall another 10%, I will cut, else I will keep to enjoy the DY. Anyway, today is good day for BJTOTO :)

Posted by bestreturn > 2018-03-22 16:38 | Report Abuse

You are right chiahow80

Posted by shpg22 > 2018-03-22 16:54 | Report Abuse

I think there is misunderstanding here. What I mean is after 2005 meaning from 1/1/2006 onward.
Note that there is a gain of around 30% between from 1/1/2005 to 1/1/2006.

Posted by shpg22 > 2018-03-22 16:54 | Report Abuse

This is just an awareness. Don't just choose company with high dividend yield. You may end up with overall net loss over time (BJTOTO, ASTRO, MALAKOF). While some can be very rewarding (LPI, MAYBANK)

Posted by chiahow80 > 2018-03-22 17:08 | Report Abuse

shpg22, i am not so old, I just care after 2015 and I just bought BJTOTO recently at 2.1. If fall below 2, I will run, else I enjoying ~7.5% Div. You sound like talking about old record, what for? For those who can hold since 2006, I am sure they can hold for another 10yrs, which they may make profit or loss in future. But for now, how many investors care about after 2006 story (but not 2005)? haha.....

I feel better to keep my money here than other counter or FD until I see the price fall below 2

Posted by shpg22 > 2018-03-22 17:41 | Report Abuse

Dont u understand the meaning of 2005 onwards. That will include 2015, 2016, 2017. Actually wat i m trying to say is BJTOTO is not a good long term investment it used to be.

Posted by bestreturn > 2018-03-22 18:57 | Report Abuse

The best thing about investing in BJ Toto now is that the govt still don't allow online buying for BJ Toto yet. If one day it get approved, the price will go up. But of course, the one day is don't know when...

Posted by hng33 > 2018-03-23 16:10 | Report Abuse

Share price holding well now, opt for dividend entitlement

Posted by geary > 2018-03-23 18:30 | Report Abuse

@bestreturn! Thanks​ for your practical n sensible writing for others to learn. Added or Averaging down... Bjtoto is a defensive counter...of course the growth is very conservative or zero at present. I think its dividend won't go down anymore n sustainable. Good luck...!!!

Posted by sheldon > 2018-03-24 06:22 | Report Abuse

bestreturn - yes tq.

i can imagine! Capturing the younger set hence top line growth & no more brick & mortar & salaries of staff manning them.

Posted by hng33 > 2018-03-26 09:56 | Report Abuse

sold off bjtoto at 2.17, locked small gain, free up capital

Posted by sheldon > 2018-03-27 09:44 | Report Abuse

amazing - 45 mins into the trading day & not a single lot traded

Posted by Biker2b > 2018-03-27 12:53 | Report Abuse

To be fair, in addition to monetary dividend, BJTOTO also given out 4 times share dividend since 2005 (2009, 2013, 2014, 2015). All in all, adjusted cost rightfully should be lower than current price albeit profit might varied depending on entry cost throughout the years.

Posted by sheldon > 2018-03-27 15:26 | Report Abuse

my first foray into BToto, I made money. Now I'm sitting on a pile of losses. Despite mitigated by dividends, it's still a very large net loss.

Posted by Biker2b > 2018-03-27 16:01 | Report Abuse

Be patient. Gaming act should get amended after GE. Doesn't make sense still prohibited online gaming at this IoT age. Would be nice if toto kiosks are placed in all 7-11 outlets just like lottery can be purchased from convenient stores and gas stations in other countries.

Posted by bestreturn > 2018-03-27 19:05 | Report Abuse

@Biker2b. Agree with your assessment on Gaming act will be amended after GE

Posted by shpg22 > 2018-03-28 10:03 | Report Abuse

Malaysis is not other countries. We r an islamic state. So dream on.

Posted by LowChingHong > 2018-03-28 11:03 | Report Abuse

You are right chiahow80

Posted by chiahow80 > 2018-03-28 12:02 | Report Abuse

shpg22, earlier you commented about this stock giving high div but still loss if counting up to 2005 and not good for long term investment. Everyone here having the same dream and hope to gain profit from this counter. If don't have this dream, why you own this stock? or you just come in as "adviser" for BJTOTO stakeholders? We are muslim country, but the fact is, we still having some legal gambling activities running across entire country, that's mean everything is possible. of course it could get closed down after GE too. Investment always has risk what.

Posted by throx > 2018-03-28 21:47 | Report Abuse

If I bought BJTOTO at RM4 back in 2006 and keep until now, am I losing money ? No.
But if bought BJTOTO at RM3 back in 2016 and keep until now, am I losing money ? Yes

Posted by kenlee123 > 2018-03-29 09:35 | Report Abuse

@ throx, can u explain why? curious. thanx

Posted by throx > 2018-03-29 10:53 | Report Abuse

Hi kenlee123, if you bought BJTOTO in 2006 and keep until now, you would have received dividend paid out of more than RM2 and share distribution of around 10%

Posted by shpg22 > 2018-03-29 11:32 | Report Abuse

I sure most long term investor in BJTOTO has net loss. Same goes for ASTRO & MALAKOF. They all gave high dividend. Choosing a high dividend company is important, not all the same. If you had invested in LPI 10y ago, till now your net gain is almost 600%, compare to BJTOTO -ve or 0. MAYBANK, LIIHEN also a good long term dividend counter to consider.

Posted by throx > 2018-03-29 12:55 | Report Abuse

I agree that BJTOTO has been disappointing in recent years. The implementation of GST at 2015 has affected the margin of BJTOTO & Magnum. But the full effect has taken place and the current stock price already reflected that. The profit of next few quarter should be able to maintain around the last quarter figure.

Posted by Eagle_T > 2018-03-29 21:16 | Report Abuse

HR Owen plc, a company controlled by Berjaya group founder Tan Sri Vincent Tan (pic), has been named 2018’s Rolls-Royce Global Dealer of the Year
https://www.thestar.com.my/business/business-news/2018/03/29/vincent-tans-company-wins-rollsroyce-global-dealer-of-the-year-award/

Posted by ironcrowz > 2018-03-30 12:12 | Report Abuse

All the divisions has been doing badly.

Biggest revenue and profit contributor, Toto division, losing slowly to illegal operator but suffer big from rising cost (evident from -1.7% revenue but -19.9% PBT while prize payout +2.3% so definitely not due to the luck factor here), and i dun see any actions they can take to cut costs significantly, except by cutting rental and wages by closing down stores, but that would mean it needs to gain approval to implement online platform, which i think is near impossible as then the gov would have no control over the muslims from gambling. Any info on their cost cutting efforts is much appreciated.

The 2nd biggest profit contributor, the PGMC division just lost its exclusive right to supply to PCSO, only time will tell how it affects it's profit.

The 2nd biggest revenue contributor, HR Owen, performed outstandingly, earnings shot up 77.8%, but its contribution to the group's profit is only a mere 3.91%, further it faces risks from slowing new car registration in UK, Brexit and weakening GBP.

All in all, my analysis above is only 2017 vs 2016. Assuming every year PBT -15%, a 80% dividend payout ratio and cost of investment of RM2.20 at current price, the DY is 5.74% to 4.15% in the next 3 years, still favourable than FD, my only concern is loss from continuous fall in share price as there seems no solutions to the problems faced by each divisions.

Any comment is much appreciated.

Posted by sheldon > 2018-04-02 09:51 | Report Abuse

ironcrowz All the divisions has been doing badly.
TQ for your insights.

Even with brick & mortar, there are many Muslims buying. There's a signboard that discourages Muslims at the entrances of the outlets but many still patronise. With small bets, it gives people some hope to strike it big.

There are so many ways to circumvent the barring of Muslims like getting others to buy or buying from illegals etc. The Govt & the people should realise that legal Btoto has contribute lots to the coffers which I believe has benefited all religions.

If they want to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs then the religious preachers should not complain if the treasury squeezes the rakyat in other forms like raising the GST. There's a lot of truth in the doctrine "No Money No Talk".

Posted by ironcrowz > 2018-04-02 16:09 | Report Abuse

@sheldon whether Muslims allowed to buy or not is not my main concern since the revenue has been rising every year, however, i'm more concern on the management's action on cutting costs.

Also, even if the gov allowed online betting, i'm not sure if the buyers know how to do it since most are elderly people and pensioners. If the buyers couldn't do it, it wouldn't help Toto.

Otherwise, they can strike deals with 7-11, 99speedmart etc. to station their vending machines in their stores like some countries do, maintaining a machine is much cheaper than owning a store. But again, how many buyers can adapt is to be tested.

Does anyone has news on their future plans?

Posted by ironcrowz > 2018-04-02 16:14 | Report Abuse

sry my mistake, revenue of the group rose, but Toto division down slightly, but still my main concern is on cost cutting efforts

Posted by Lim Tek Wai > 2018-04-03 15:58 | Report Abuse

You are right

Posted by Lim Tek Wai > 2018-04-03 15:59 | Report Abuse

don't invest based on high dividend yield.

Posted by Yael Jasper > 2018-04-03 16:32 | Report Abuse

still earning la.

Posted by darren7132 > 2018-04-04 16:46 | Report Abuse

If government approved the internet betting for sport toto, will this affect a lot in Sport toto share price ?

What's you all opinion ?

Posted by chiahow80 > 2018-04-04 16:52 | Report Abuse

What is happening today?

Posted by throx > 2018-04-04 17:38 | Report Abuse

I hope everyone understand that even if government approve BJTOTO to accept betting online (via an app), the users still has to be non-muslim Malaysian only. DMC already has such app in place call dmcGO which was evolved from their telelink license. It will definitely help to increase the sales but won't be too much.

Posted by sheldon > 2018-04-05 13:29 | Report Abuse

throx I hope everyone understand that even if government approve BJTOTO to accept betting online (via an app), the users still has to be non-muslim Malaysian only....

I disagree because handphone and computer appliances do not ask the owners their religious beliefs in the registration process. It's absurd for there to exist a Muslim handphone or a Hindu laptop. Hence orders placed via these devices will not reveal any details of religion.

Posted by billionaire88 > 2018-04-07 00:48 | Report Abuse

BJToto is no longer the company it used to be. Those days net profit margin at 10% above and average RM100m every quarter. Nowadays, despite revenue almost doubled to RM1.4b every quarter, net profit is about RM60m at less than 5% margin. Revenue increase mainly because of HR Owen but it has poor profit margin. Furthermore, increase in HR Owen is also due to weaknesses of Ringgit, not because or better sales.

There are too many online gaming (legal otherwise) competing with Sports Toto's business. Young people today do not like to go to Sports Toto outlet to buy numbers. It's too inconvenient and it look very uncle/auntie. They prefer to bet using the phone or computer.

Posted by Biker2b > 2018-04-09 12:07 | Report Abuse

1. Is BJTOTO facing challenges - no doubt about it, but again which company does not ?
2. Is illegal gambling hurting BJTOTO - sure, but is this a new threat or potentially escalating ?
3. Is GST hurting BJTOTO - sure, but again this is not new and no sign of increasing

Is there any other downsides that has yet to factor in the current price in ?

On the other hand:-
1. Is BJTOTO undervalue - likely based on PE +/-10x and DY +/-7.5%
2. Is there catalyst for upside - yes, including potential restructuring plan orchestrates by TSVT for his Berjaya group of companies, upcoming amendment of online gaming act, monetization of non-core assets within BJTOTO, etc

Posted by sheldon > 2018-04-10 09:50 | Report Abuse

This counter is going to the dogs. It's going ex tomorrow and yet the price is tepid

Posted by ironcrowz > 2018-04-10 11:50 | Report Abuse

@billionaire88 HR Owen actually recorded +20% in revenue and +78% PBT in GBP terms, i believe that's actual improvement rather than due to weakness in RM. If u see, GBP/MYR actually strengthens 1st half of the year then drops back down 2nd half of the year, i guess the forex factor is very much netted off here.

But still, HR Owen's contribution to the group's profit in RM terms is less than 5%, still a long way to turn around BJTOTO for me.

Posted by ironcrowz > 2018-04-10 12:27 | Report Abuse

@Biker2b

1. Agree
2. The division's revenue has been dropping since 2014, -2% on average
3. Sry i've not purchased any bets before, does the customers need to pay GST for betting? If yes, BJTOTO will be able to claim back GST on most of its expenses and i believe the impact will be immaterial

1. Agree, but i expect DY to drop over the next 5 yrs to 3%, assuming current rate of decrease in profits, even lower than the FD rate by then as BNM raises OPR rate. Buying a good company at a fair price is better than buying a fair company at a good price.

2. I would put my money in if i can get more details in to it.
(a) Where can i read more on the restructuring plan?
(b) Assuming the gaming act is amended to allow online betting, i doubt the impact will be big and can be seen immediately. @throx commented Damacai has dmcGO, but the impact is questionable, also the app is not directly downloadable from the playstore, only as .apk (mayb to circumvent rules?), on apple app store theres' only 24 mixed reviews.
(c) What do you mean by monetization of non-core assets? Where can i read more on this?

Posted by Lim Tek Wai > 2018-04-10 12:30 | Report Abuse

You are right

Posted by Biker2b > 2018-04-10 15:01 | Report Abuse

@ironcrowz
a) Regarding restructuring plan - Pay attention to major shareholders movement involving Berjaya group of companies i.e BJAsset, 7-11, BJGroup, etc especially after TSVT resuming Chairmanship
b) Regarding online gaming - At least it provides level playing field with illegal gambling and prevent BJTOTO board/management from continuously taking aged lame excuses for their non-performance.
c) Regarding monetization of non-core assets - Was mentioned during 2017 AGM. In addition, unless TSVT's lieutenants are sleeping, what's the rationale of having car, hotel and pizza businesses within BJTOTO, whereas there is BAuto, BJLand and BJFood which align better synergies ?

Posted by KISSinvest > 2018-04-13 13:27 | Report Abuse

Quite pessimistic a lot of ppl, talk as if it is gonna bankrupt. Lets wait and see when you are 85 like kyy, bjtoto will still be here or not.

Posted by geary > 2018-04-13 17:28 | Report Abuse

Ha... Bought... Averaging...@<2.10...Hold...for its dividend yield...!!!

Posted by chiahow80 > 2018-04-15 15:49 | Report Abuse

KISSinvest, yeah, you will feel very down if you keep reading the post here and you may also found not sure they are BJTOTO share holder or just come in talking like expert and ask everyone dont trust on this counter. For me, I m enjoying the div as I bought at low price :).

Posted by Biker2b > 2018-04-16 11:30 | Report Abuse

It's ok to hear from both sides as long as there is substance in sharing rationales instead of baseless rubbish.

Posted by Lee Richard > 2018-04-17 00:33 | Report Abuse

At least 7% pa is better than EPF at average 6%...

Posted by apolloang > 2018-04-17 00:37 | Report Abuse

can maintain or not?