This shows how young choivo is. Up until 2013, parkson was a wonderful source of revenue, profits and dividends that you would not believe.

But back in 2009, who would have invested in Alibaba and Amazon?

It goes to show if you don't keep an eye on your investments every quarter and think like an owner, parkson becomes a more and more exciting deep value investment with wonderful assets and cash, even as the long term prospects start shrinking from 2013 onwards.

When facing low PE ratios and enticing asset values, always ask the question why? Instead of answering worth buy.

>>>>>>>>>>

You can barely think of one company in those industries making above average profits.

Using PE and PB as an all consuming metric was something I tried back in the 90s and Y2K.

Losing 200k back then ( almost 20 years now) set me back 10 years, a hole which I would never have come out of without a lot of hard work and sacrifice ( and luck).

Never again.

Always look at a business in totality like an owner.

Ask where the cash is coming from, how it is growing, and how debt is serviced. Is there management responsible? PE does not tell you this.

Is the revenues and earnings growing organically? Most of all, take a good long look at assets.

If me as a director were to buy an equipment/property/@ business (vigcash,numoni etc) and tell everyone it is an asset because I gave someone money for it ( valuation is from the other party) but that "asset" is losing money for me, I should treat it more as a liability instead.

For equipment we can amortize and depreciate. But undeveloped land also has a opportunity cost, same as a business.

My very first boss told me a very wise saying I remember until today.

If your business is not earning money, don't call it a business. It is a donation.

I keep hoping sslee and raider realizes this and thinks deeper on why his INSAS is always permanently valued so low. But I realize they still think of stocks as accounting paper, and not like how a boss would think when acquiring a company.

Sadly, these lessons need to be undergone before we realize the cost of not looking to the downsides first.

Icon8888 always says I think I am right and I am never wrong.

The fact is I made so many horrible investments in renong, transmile and aokam that I am so scared of being wrong that I look ten times at a rock before I even consider buying, knowing that one mistake will set me back 10 years.

It is far far more important to NOT lose money than it is to MAKE huge money.

Better by far to stay away from uncertain investments than it is to make small bets on variables.

You never know when you need to deploy capital on the sure thing.

I learned this fact far too late many many years ago. This was more than 13 years ago I learnt this bitter lesson.

All I can say is: to the depths of hell be all the directors of transmile. Their profit at my cost.

>>>>>>>>>>

Posted by 3iii > Jul 9, 2019 8:02 AM | Report Abuse

Case study: Transmile

Due care

Good one pjseow, I realized that with Sendai as well, where it's big order came from it's own CEO to build up the jack ship. Huge receivables from middle East but unable to collect causing huge liquidity problems.

That is why I really hope investors don't just look at simple metrics like NTA and p/e screen for low and buy. When there is a low price, you must always step carefully and analyze why the market put such a low price to the stock.

It could be lack of coverage.
It could be litigation.
It could be debt and interest coverage.
It could be not paying customers.

All of these are not covered in PE.

One should always exercise thinking like an owner trying to buy over a new business when buying stocks. Try to find out the competitive advantage, try to find out the risks.

Most of all, never just rely on one or two metrics and declare that this is a good business to buy.

I thought you say YINSON got problem?

>>>>>>>

Posted by stockraider > Jul 8, 2019 8:54 PM | Report Abuse

London not allow idss mah...!!

OH GOSH! YOU NEVER HEARD OF IDSS?

BUT TRUE ALSO LA, BETTER DON'T SHORT. IT IS ONLY FOR EXPERIENCED INVESTORS.


>>>>>>>>

Posted by stockraider > Jul 8, 2019 7:13 PM | Report Abuse

Msia mkt don allow u to short mah, don be sochai lah...!!

Posted by (US/CHN trade war doesn't matter) Philip > Jul 8, 2019 7:10 PM | Report Abuse

Ok stockraider you are right! Would you like to short yinson to prove your point?

Ok stockraider you are right! Would you like to short yinson to prove your point?

Excellent article.

Meaning you will not show your own trading portfolio? I see. Great and thanks noted.

Hi I am currently based in Sabah. As you can see from my portfolio page I keep a concentrated long term approach to my investments. I am interested in learning the latest knowledge from technical analysis ( I have been trying TA since 1996, but since 2007 I have been using munger's mental model to method is of qualitative analysis instead of just quantitative).

I maintain my portfolio here.

https://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/pfs/120720.jsp

I am very interested in your 70%- 80% pickup of right winning stock with a proper trading plan. Are you able to share your portfolio for you claims as well during your classes? I would like to study your picks and your mindset in making them.

I see, so your pick a winning stock in 5 minutes class is also from an educational standpoint and not based on real results of past returns?

Ok noted and thanks for spending your time to reply. Have a great day.

P.s. I do hope you will change your class titles as it sounds very sensational and easily confused old men like me. It sounds like a easy, consistent way to make money.

If you have 2 opinions, one conservative one aggressive, as an investor you MUST base your analysis on the conservative answer.

Why? You hope for peace, but prepare for war. You expect good results, but you invest based on conservative results.

How do you know what the future results will be? No one knows, not even CEO or CFO. They have projections

You have margin of safety.

Klu selalu nak untung ja, nak profit ja, Tak nak fikirkan downsides.... Good luck on your investment future la adik.



>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Posted by SarifahSelinder > Jul 8, 2019 7:58 AM | Report Abuse

Sarifah cuba try not to be too hard on the CFO

Tapi... lihat la u sendiri

Compare u sendiri PAT yg diberi kat AGM to apa yg the same CFO told Kenanga

Hi, serious question, if you have the ability to pick a winning stock in 5 minutes, why do classes? As I find teaching classes very mafan and not as money making as spending time researching winning stocks and just invest capital behind it.

If you have a successful and tracked portfolio I'm sure it is very easy to get high networth investors to put capital to invest directly, get a bank beards license ( it's only 500k to get the management license) and open up direct collection team for you to invest large capital

I think it boils down to do you have a track record, and what is your shareholdings portfolio. Do you reveal that in your classes?

I am searching for a capable trading house with a proven track record (>8 years track record of long term successful trading portfolio). I am willing to invest 500k-1M if the technical analysis and trading portfolio has shown growth and good long term profits.


>>>>>>>>>>>>

21 July 2019

How to pick a winning stock in just 5 minutes

Location : ITPA, Persiaran Mahsuri, Bayan Lepas, 11900, Pulau Pinang

Time : 2.00pm - 4.00pm

Registration Link : https://www.eventbrite.com/e/how-to-pick-a-winning-stock-in-just-5-minutes-registration-64661484240

Yeah let office boy win. Important is not the words which he try to conquer every where, important is the fact that my share block which was worth rm4.09 at beginning of January has gone up this week on GOOD MANAGEMENT, HUGE CONTRACT WINS AND VERY FAIR ESTIMATE OF FUTURE EARNINGS.

GOOD LUCK STOCKRAIDER. JUST DON'T QUIT YOUR DAY JOB OK?

WORKING FOR OTHERS IS HARD AND BEING TREATED LIKE A DOG IS SAD. SO I LET YOU CLAIM YOUR TIARA ON I3 FORUM AS BEST STOCK TRADER. I'M SURE YOU MAKE BIG BIG MONEY TALKING BAD ABOUT OTHER INVESTMENTS BUT YOUR OWN PERSONAL PORTFOLIO AFTER SO LONG ONLY MAKE PEANUTS.

AND DON'T DARE TO POST YOUR SHAREHOLDINGS ALSO.

JUST LIKE CALVIN SIFU YOUR MASTER WITH 33 SHARES TO PROMOTE.

This is the valuation part which office boy doesn't know how to value. Depreciation costs, amortisation costs and fair value.

If you buy a piece of land for 1 million, but got radioactive elements found, how does the valuation of the land become when no one wants to touch the land, no one wants to buy the land, give free also don't want? You need to revalue properly right?.

Same thing with Armada. Their ships are old and useless, not efficient, no one wants to buy them at " valuation" prices, can't generate income,40% utilization rates.

So how? Revalue properly lo. In the real world ( not lived in by raider) impairments occur when the business is no longer generating returns as per valuation, gets hit by higher finance costs.

That is why investors who only look at one metric instead of entire company performance vs peers....

Tend to end up like stockraider.

Forever working for other people, cranky and angry office boys...

So sad, but love to give their wrong advice to people all the time.

Nothing to say about poorly trained investors who say hengyuan is worth 35, DGSB up from 4.5 to 9 cents ( instead of reverse split, he thinks his share of doubled) and if course thinks sapura will be rm3 soon.


>>>>>>>>>>

Total Assets...................15540

Stockraider analysis of yinson had so many holes a jumbo jet can fly right through. While raider dream dreaming about his sapura rm3 in 3 years. And his initial analysis of hengyuan worth rm35.

And his initial analysis of dgsb is share price went up from 4.5 cents and jump up to 9 cents in one month.

So how to explain to him his analysis is dead wrong leh? I hope he continue to think this way with his office boy mentality.

His accounting method is so kampung that I feel like want to help him explain part by part like a little boy how to look at balance sheets.

But I have better things to do on a Sunday than waste time with a troll. Let him look at the numbers properly himself.

When stockraider is wrong he will never admit. So wasting time trying correct his analysis. Let him enjoy his own world.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Posted by stockraider > Jul 7, 2019 10:49 AM | Report Abuse

Ask yourself yinson is how much overvalue compare to armada, but its balance sheet are still craps leh ??

When there of reckoning come for Yinson, u cry also no tears loh..!!

YINSON IS ACTUALLY HYFLUX IN THE MAKING LOH...!!

Does stockraider even understand balance sheets?

Armada 10 billion in loans, with average rates around 4.85%
Yinson 3.6 billion in loans, with average rates around also around 4.8%

And the difference of the loans are the main think that allow ynson to make money and high profit while Armada has to keep taking lousy projects just to do the interest payments for OSV that is sitting at home rusting with no orders (40% utilization rates) and no one willing to buy it.

Talking cocktail is raider, why not go back to your sapura rm3 in 3 years instead? I heard it's dropped back again and not up half a cent every day like you talk cock said.



>>>>>>>>>>>

stockraider SOHAI 3iii Yinson balance sheet not much better than Armada loh...!!
Yinson has a disguise perpetual bond classify as equity, just becareful b4 u talk too much cock loh...!!

Revisiting facts, everyone thinks yocb would have done so well over cny period and business will do great in Q3. What happened?


>>>>>>>>>>>
Coming Q3 will be CNY sale period, most likely YOCB will register all time high net profit for coming Q3.

These are my only holdings currently for Bursa market.

In terms of capital preservation, I believe sslee and stockraider is a definitely a guide guide with their investments in hengyuan 35, insas past hold 5 years growth and xinquan super undervalued stock of the year.

Thank you.

If course not forgetting dgsb double profit in over month claim by raider.

Very good examples.

The figures tell me a wonderful story. How a company is able to take less outside capital than it's peers to grow with far more efficiency. How a company grew:

From 1.4 BILLION in REVENUE AND 106 MILLION PROFIT 10 YEARS AGO
TO. 2.4 BILLION REVENUE AND 159 PROFIT 5 YEARS AGO
TO. 3.6 BILLION REVENUE AND 216 PROFIT TODAY

CEO is telling you projections 8 billion revenue and 600 profit 10 years from now.

So if you are conservative and look at 6 billion revenue and 400 profit 10 years from now with no major competitor to disrupt your business or undersell your prices ( numbers also tell me QL is the lowest cost producer), how would you value QL then? Buy or sell?

I know everyones answer.

Problem is most professional investors know how to value INSAS. Only the amateur ones think they know better.

Good luck.


>>>>>>>>>

QL Balance sheet:
Trade receivables: RM 300,876,000
Cash and cash equivalents: RM 260,331,000
Long term borrowings (LT Debts/Total Equity: 30%): RM611,313,000
Short term-bankers acceptance RM 279,923,000:
Other short term borrowings: RM 297,368,000
Payables: RM 342,799,000
So what all these figures tell you about QL:

This right here is why I still hold QL from 1 billion company to 11 billion, topglov from 1 billion to 9 billion and yinson from 1 billion to today 7 billion.

You do not buy a stock for trailing yearly profits, you buy it for future returns.

Did I know today yinson will be winning marlim, whale park and Ghana fpso tenders for 8 billion USD in charter contracts? No. How could I? But the numbers and trajectory of their project wins, their capital position with banks, their management story is told by the numbers and give me confidence.

Did I know ql was going to take up family mart franchise, move from chicken eggs into seafood and surimi and plantations? No. Of course not. But same with the trajectory and numbers are telling you a story about the business.

You keep using just 1 metric PE to justify buying INSAS and not investing in QL.

The numbers of INSAS is telling you a story. Why for 5 years is the share price dropping and rangebound below rm1, while the NTA goes up to 2.4? Until today you cannot answer this question. Or you refuse to answer the reasoning behind many investors including kyy, OTB, myself and many institutions sold and refuse to buy INSAS, even as the "NTA" keeps going up.

But yes. You do not buy a company for the trailing yearly profits, but you make a qualitative judgement on the future yearly profits based on the numbers and performance of the company. FYI NTA calculations and debt also do not factor into in price/earnings.

And a simple basic logic:

For a fixed deposit you will always pay P/E = 1. aka 100% certainty on future returns.

For stocks the pe is volatile, as everyone has an intrinsic idea of how much a company can earn in the future. Aka valuation will always change and expand.

NO ONE IS WILLING TO OVERPAY FOR INSAS BECAUSE WE KNOW THE PAST HISTORY, THE PAST BAGGAGE, AND THE FUTURE OF INSAS. NOT EVEN RAIDER AND SSLEE. WHY? IF YOU ARE CONFIDENT RETAINED EARNINGS WILL BE RM5 3-5 YEARS FROM NOW, WHY SELL AT 80 CENTS? WHY DOESN'T INSTITUTION BUY UNTIL REALIZED VALUE OF RM1.25 AND ABOVE? 100% RETURN NOT GOOD? UNLESS IT IS THEORETICAL AND NOT CERTAINTY.

FOR QL WHY AM I AND OTHER INSTITUTIONS HOLDING AT PE51? AND GIVING REALIZED VALUE TO QL AT 11 BILLION? ARE WE BUILDING CASTLES AND CHASING NUMBERS IN THE AIR? OBVIOUSLY NOT.

The simple fact is this: everyone knows QL can perform with a wonderful management. Everyone also knows their total addressable market is so wide ranging and simple to figure out. In fact, as long as you have eggs, seafood and palm oil, someone will buy it from you ( just price is issue, not demand). So when CEO believes QL future revenue within 10 years at 8 billion a year and 600 million in net earnings, from his past performance it is easier to believe than INSAS working out valuations reaching 1.7 billion.

That is why institutions hold. That is why ql owners holding. That is why I hold. Future returns, not trailing yearly profits.

As for INSAS, you are not buying for future profits. You are buying for past glories.

Trapped in the past.

>>>>>>>

trailing yearly profits.

Good luck on the punt. 8.50 by end of August? OK!

I know exactly why INSAS is being valued so low for the last 5 years. It is not a short term depression which will quickly recover in time.

No, just like Chernobyl this is a structural problem.

This is the most childish thinking I have heard. It is sad because I used to think that sslee being a smart man might have learned a little bit about running a business. Sadly, working for other bosses all his life, being in a safe mode where he doesn't have to worry about where his next paycheck is coming from he has lost his sense of danger.

Theoretically what he say is true ( on accounting books).

The question remains: why does no one do this is practical real life?

Answer: if it was practical the owners would have found a way to borrow money/JV and do the deal directly to take the company private. ( Spare me the management bullshit they feed you). Many companies like WEIDA etc have taken their companies off listing status with no issue.

But no bank will borrow that kind of imaginary returns. If they wanted to, th and howey could aggressively reward themselves ( and all shareholders) by giving out extra dividends for them to build up war chest to privatise.

You still stick on quantitative details but lack the qualitative details.

For qualitative you are surprisingly naive. You accept that it is ok for management unable to buy shares because they will trigger MGO( and they do not have finances to handle the mandatory offer) but do not consider the dynamics of this issue.

Are you naive to think that minority investors to agree for management to buy shares back and no need to trigger mgo? Let them build their position up to 51% and control the company in everything but in name and do away like protasco?

Your story behind the numbers is nothing but MORE NUMBERS.

Tell me what is happening at INSAS. Why is the revenue and profits dropping? Why is the investments in new gruesome businesses at the cost of selling golden egg inari? Most importantly, tell me WHY IS THE MARKET VALUING A COMPANY WORRY 1.7 BILLION AT ONLY 562 MILLION? The numbers tell you a story. You ignore the story at your own cost.

To understand qualitative versus quantitative thinking, I recommend you to watch Chernobyl the 5 part series from HBO. As a chemical engineer I am sure you would love the very in detail plant operations and technical stories that pull you in.

And you will finally understand how blindly following numbers and instructions without understanding the context in which the situation arose, aka making the numbers fit your story caused one of the most horrific nuclear disasters in human history.

Thank you.

>>>>>>>>

Sslee Dear all,
The story behind INSAS Balance Sheet Numbers:
As at 31/03/2019
Total non-current assets RM 825,432,000
Total current assets RM 1,531,914,000
TOTAL LIABILITIES RM 632,992,000
Number of shares issued: 663,006,342 (excluding 30,327,291 treasury shares)
Close market price of INSAS RM 0.815 on 5th July 2019
Market Capital: RM 540,350,168

What story the above number tell you is theoretically: You need RM 540,350,168 to bought over INSAS and then you only need to liquidate RM (632,992,000+540,350,168) =1,173,342,168 of Current asset to pay for your purchase and settle the total liabilities.
And you will get for free of charge:
Total non-current assets of RM 825,432,000
Current assets of RM (1,531,914,000 -1,173,342,168) = 358,570,000

Thank you
05/07/2019 8:52 PM

This is probably the only Malaysian o&g Bursa company that doesn't have any business in Malaysia. 99 % of their jobs is international.

Even their first local job in Malaysian waters is because THHE couldn't do the job despite years of work, and jx Nippon decided to award to YINSON which is now doing it ahead of schedule and on budget.

The financial strength is strong. Their market reputation is exemplary, and their international team of Norwegian management coupled with Chinese savvy is impressive.

They will be taking the Brazilian marlim 1 contract as the only tenderer, whale park fpso as the only tenderer and most likely The Ghana project as there only tenderer with local experience.

Stockraider attend MLM think he is getting a good deal for cheap price. Meanwhile, he is actually being conned by JJPTR that he is offering for deep value, while actual fact is his investment stuck is twilight zone for 5 years.

Only after fail on short term trading mechanics then he go around saying he is a long term investing. But in reality, his money is stuck in lala land.


>>>>>>>>

Posted by stockraider > Jul 5, 2019 1:39 PM | Report Abuse

Remember this loh...!!

Have faith loh...if u buy something for Rm 0.30 for a value of Rm 1.00 surely this is good investment principle logically loh...!!

Do not believe these conman Philip & 3iii loh...!!

Your good conservative parent always taught u to buy something of value & not to overpay, and Insas is the the margin of safety investment your parent had been teaching u all this while loh...!!

Unless u r very rich and have alot of money to splurge, u must manage your monies conservatively in order to succeed & not overpay like QL Pe 50x buy loh....!!

This is the difference between me and you. My remark was meant as a qualitative statement, whereas you only think on the quantitative.

Instead if reading the numbers, understand for once what story the numbers are trying to tell you. Don't be so simpleminded as stockraider just to parrot out numbers.

My qualitative statement is meant to teach you and remind you why INSAS shares have been depressed for so long, because you seem to be the only one to not care or want to understand why INSAS shares has been a such low levels not for weeks or months but in fact for years!.

If I had to hold INSAS shares for so long without the undervaluation being balanced, in can only mean one thing.

There is a structural fault with INSAS.

Or did you think that for the last 5 years everyone else is wrong and you are suddenly right on the valuation of INSAS?

Come on, please.

If you don't know who the Patsy is at the poker table after 30 minutes of playing, then you are the Patsy.

>>>>>>>>>

Sslee Dear Philip,
Just need to read the Balance Sheet of 2009 and 2019 to know where did total profit of 949M go?

Thank you
05/07/2019 1:00 PM

Dear sslee, I advise you to put the pen and calculator first behind and don't take it out until you understand a little bit better how your business works, then you take it out because you can spin any sort of value to the stock as for your opinion of how the business is going to do in future.

Do you know why Berkshire dropped book value calculations this year annual meeting? It is because NTA and book value alone is a very poor indicator of the strength of a business.

Warren was referring exactly to this particular type of business INSAS, and why business performance comes first and valuations then second.

1. Very simple, how easy is it to sell 600 million inari share off market it on market without crashing it's value? Are you naive enough to think you will get full value for it compared to current share price, or there will be a big buyer for inari share. Face facts, big buyers will want a discount, just as buyers for INSAS are valuing it at a discount. Only amateurs think that balance sheet on paper and real life valuations are the same.

2. Book value of INSAS is 1.7 billion. Are you willing to pay up for INSAS shares? Why not? And why do you think other people will pay 1.7 billion for INSAS shares when they are getting 13 million a year in dividends? Preference shares? Why?

3. Is it growing? Yes. Will it continue to grow? Yes. Has it grown for past 5 years? Yes. Do you know exactly what the business if QL will perform 5 years from now? No one knows. But what certainty do I have? Every year the business is growing more than it did last year. So how do YOU know it will not improve it's double digits growth prediction by QL CEO for the next 5 years?

How long have you and raider u held INSAS? You attempt to say you bought a wonderful business, when there performance has not even been there, revenue dropping, earnings dropping.

And you think it will be a good earning company in future?


>>>>>>>>>

Sslee Dear Philip,
How do you value your investment holding (quoted securities) asset?
So INSAS Investment holding asset (quoted securities and bonds), bank deposit, money lending and Inari (which generating dividend/interest/income/share of profit less loss) are considered as rerating of existing assets?
Do you know Insas book value of RM1.10 ten years ago, has increased by a total of RM1.44 to RM2.54 in 2018, or a high CAGR of 8.8% over the last 10 years?
Is revenue growth more important than profit growth? When the fact is INSAS derived profit growth from share of profit of associate companies.
Do you know associate company only given a book value of RM 357,628,000 in INSAS balance sheet? So how are you going to value 600+ million of Inari share?
Do not just argue for argument’s sake, please take out a pen and calculator and work out the Net Current Assets Value, Graham net-net value and etc
“The success in investing is not from buying things good, but buying things well” Howard Marks

Note: Your QL is now market cap 11 billion company with net profit to shareholder for the past 5 year as below (‘000):
216,743 206,236 195,921 192,079 191,400
Is this profit growth satisfactory and who is building castle in the air?

Thank you
05/07/2019 8:55 AM

Haha stockraider wants to win at all costs. I can respect that. Any more good calls sifu raider? End of the month insas 90 cents?

Again with bullshit and talk cock and mixing lies without looking at the truth in totality.

YEAR REVENUE PROFIT
2019* 133* 64* (dividend paid 13.26 million)
2018 341 90 (dividend paid 6.63 million)
2017 347 180
2016 272 77
2015 406 91
2014 276 160
2013 297 62
2012 235 12
2011 235 103
2010 423 53
2009 241 51

3285 949?? (WHERE DID THE MONEY GO?)

let me ask you a very simple question, from the reports total profit is 949M. how much is being burnt away in frivolous activities and loss making business. How many dividend is given out to long suffering investors? if insas so profitable, why are they giving out so much preference shares and interest payments without any new growth triggers? business is on a downward curve.

RAIDER BUY BASED STOCKS ON THE FUTURE PERFORMANCE OR BASED ON THE PAST RESULTS?

>>>>>>>>>

I don understand why u say INSAS badly manage when it grows its profits & shareholder funds at a compound rate of 9% pa for the past 10 yr without fail mah...!!

So you admit that you only like to dream and never base your comments on reality?

I SEE. SO STOCKRAIDER ONLY KNOW HOW TO PROVOKE AND MAKE NONSENSE COMMENTS WITHOUT THINKING FIRST?

NICE DOG, WOOF WOOF.

MY DOG ALSO BARKS A LOT, BUT NEVER USES THE BRAIN TO THINK FIRST BEFORE BARKING.

ARE YOU A DOG YEAR TOO?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Posted by stockraider > Jul 5, 2019 10:36 AM | Report Abuse
This Philip is sohai loh...!! If Dgsb can double in 1 mth is it not every investor dream leh ??

This shows that insas has invested in a gem loh....!!

I don understand why u say INSAS badly manage when it grows its profits & shareholder funds at a compound rate of 9% pa for the past 10 yr without fail mah...!!

Surely at this type of growth insas is well manage mah....!!

Why shareholder funds or net assets growth, this is what warren buffet measure Berkshire hathaway performance every yr loh...!!

Posted by (US/CHN trade war doesn't matter) Philip > Jul 5, 2019 10:27 AM | Report Abuse

this is what warren buffet says about companies that are good but under bad management. And make no mistake, the management of insas and DGSB is not a good one. What happens after disposal? they throw the money again into unproven new business units like food and manufacturing. An IT company?

https://youtu.be/T1D9AlhNwAQ?t=8144


AND MAKE NO MISTAKE RAIDER, I AM NOT LAUGHING AT DGSB. I AM DIRECTLY LAUGHING AT YOU/

LAUGHING AT YOU BECAUSE YOU LIKE TO POST LONG LONG MESSAGE.

LIKE TO TALK COCK AS IF YOU ARE SO SMART AND OTHERS SOHAI.

LIKE TO POST SO SMART MESSAGE.

BUT NEVER READ ANY REPORTS OR ANNUAL INFORMATION AT ALL.

SIMPLY SAY DGSB SHARE PRICE JUMP FROM 4.5 SEN TO 9 SEN.

WITHOUT READING FIRST TO SEE WHAT HAPPEN.

WTHOUT UNDERSTAND FIRST BEFORE COMMENT.

JUST SIMPLY TAKE A SHIT EVERYWHERE AND LIE TO PEOPLE.

YES STOCKRAIDER I AM LAUGHING AT YOU.

AND ONLY YOU.

WHO DON'T KNOW WHAT IS MEANT BY REVERSE SPLIT.

BUT THINK SHARE PRICE DOUBLE IN 1 MONTH.

BUT OF COURSE THAT IS HOW MOST COMPANIES CON NEW INVESTORS TO MAKE THEM THINK BUSINESS SUDDENLY VERY GOOD.

BUT MARKET CAP AND SHARE PRICE STILL THE SAME, ONLY HALF THE NOSH AND EQUALIZE THE SHARE PRICE.

SO FUNNY, DIDN'T KNOW STOCKRAIDER IS A NEW INVESTOR UNTIL TODAY. BUT STILL DONT ADMIT SHAME AND DONT KNOW WHAT IS A 2:1 REVERSE SPLT.

I AM LAUGHING AT YOU.

but more, i am sad for you. you think dgsb is doing good. but do you think the money is going to you? no way my office boy. it is going to another weird investment food and manufacturing, which is a totally different industry.
If Google decide one day to sell all their IT business and buy over kenny rogers and lafarge to " expand their business", do you smile and laugh and clap?

Clap Clap Clap.

You should be asking the very first question, WHY FOOD?

this is what warren buffet says about companies that are good but under bad management. And make no mistake, the management of insas and DGSB is not a good one. What happens after disposal? they throw the money again into unproven new business units like food and manufacturing. An IT company?

https://youtu.be/T1D9AlhNwAQ?t=8144


AND MAKE NO MISTAKE RAIDER, I AM NOT LAUGHING AT DGSB. I AM DIRECTLY LAUGHING AT YOU/

LAUGHING AT YOU BECAUSE YOU LIKE TO POST LONG LONG MESSAGE.

LIKE TO TALK COCK AS IF YOU ARE SO SMART AND OTHERS SOHAI.

LIKE TO POST SO SMART MESSAGE.

BUT NEVER READ ANY REPORTS OR ANNUAL INFORMATION AT ALL.

SIMPLY SAY DGSB SHARE PRICE JUMP FROM 4.5 SEN TO 9 SEN.

WITHOUT READING FIRST TO SEE WHAT HAPPEN.

WTHOUT UNDERSTAND FIRST BEFORE COMMENT.

JUST SIMPLY TAKE A SHIT EVERYWHERE AND LIE TO PEOPLE.

YES STOCKRAIDER I AM LAUGHING AT YOU.

AND ONLY YOU.

WHO DON'T KNOW WHAT IS MEANT BY REVERSE SPLIT.

BUT THINK SHARE PRICE DOUBLE IN 1 MONTH.

BUT OF COURSE THAT IS HOW MOST COMPANIES CON NEW INVESTORS TO MAKE THEM THINK BUSINESS SUDDENLY VERY GOOD.

BUT MARKET CAP AND SHARE PRICE STILL THE SAME, ONLY HALF THE NOSH AND EQUALIZE THE SHARE PRICE.

SO FUNNY, DIDN'T KNOW STOCKRAIDER IS A NEW INVESTOR UNTIL TODAY. BUT STILL DONT ADMIT SHAME AND DONT KNOW WHAT IS A 2:1 REVERSE SPLT.

I AM LAUGHING AT YOU.

but more, i am sad for you. you think dgsb is doing good. but do you think the money is going to you? no way my office boy. it is going to another weird investment food and manufacturing, which is a totally different industry.
If Google decide one day to sell all their IT business and buy over kenny rogers and lafarge to " expand their business", do you smile and laugh and clap?

Clap Clap Clap.

You should be asking the very first question, WHY FOOD?

>>>>>>>>

Building castles in the sky. Revenue has been steadily dropping. Returns are a non cash rerating of assets and not due to operating profits. The reinvestments of dividends which should be put into worthy businesses that generate every more cash flow or to buy back stock to reward investors, none are being implemented. Instead loss making pipe dreams form the basis of new invested businesses, burning returns and profits.

Yes, insas is a regular mini Berkshire.

Instead of saying insas is the most undervalued stock in Bursa, raider does not sell to go there extra step and find out why Bursa investors are not putting money into INSAS and choose to stay away instead.

In fact sslee and raider has never once touched on the cons of the investment but choose to only look at the pros of INSAS.

Never look to share price to explain how your business is doing. Look at what the business is doing, that explains the share price.

Share price up doesn't always mean business is good. Share price down doesn't always man business is bad.

The one and only way share price is guaranteed to go up is when the revenue and cash generated versus the debt and share dilution deceased next year compared to this year.

Will INSAS major share holder do an mgo at INSAS "fair value"? Impossible. They cheap.
Will INSAS get a major contract/major rerating of inar/big IPO this year? Impossible.
Will numoni suddenly have widespread usage versus alipay/wechat/boost? Impossible. Loss making.
Will biotech suddenly make money and a huge discovery? Impossible. It is based in dead town Brunei without a full research support from peers in Europe, USA and Singapore. Loss making.
Will tribecar be profitable? Most likely never. If similar to grab/Uber, you will have the increase if revenue without the comfort of profits for a very very long time. Yes loss making and cash burning.
Will their clothing line every pick up? No. The designs are not innovative. The pricing is bad. They have no intention of using internet to do online/offline retailing. Answer is: impossible in comparison to retail Giants Uniqlo, h&m and Zara which is benchmark. Lower prices, better service, better locations, better designs.
How efficient is the returns from the stockbroking/financial management company? Answer: do you use their services? Most likely not. Majority of traders use Jupiter, rakuten, or any of the major banks to do their share trading services. The days of huge returns from being a remiser is long long gone.

What clarity do you have that INSAS will double it's revenues/earnings next year? None. Revenue, can flow and earnings are dropping. The only value (trap) you have is the perceived value of inari shares. Which they are selling every quarter along with the dividends to pay for their operational needs and fund loss making ventures. One day the golden egg will be gone.

These are the cons of INSAS, the mini Berkshire Hathaway.

Not a single growth trigger in place. Only rerating of existing assets.

Dumpster diving, thinking that you have found deep value that only you know of and hoping one day other people will catch on. The last time insas broke rm1 was in 2014. Waiting 5 years for insas to go back to rm1 and getting 2 cent dividend in between ( which is unsustainable).

I remembered when I bought yinson at 1.15, and they started the fpso business but doing a 3:2 rights issue at rm1 to raise cash for business expansion. I bought in and kept faith, knowing that YINSON treated me as a partner/owner. Today yinson is going to be a 7 billion dollar company, while INSAS forever remains a smallcap and " most undervalued company in Bursa". I think in January yinson had shown that it was far more undervalued than INSAS, but people are slowly realizing its intrinsic value. Ql at pe50 for so long is also for to investors realizing its intrinsic value and not selling for any reason whatever. Topglov at pe32 is far more undervalued than INSAS.

Let's face an ugly truth: insas at pe6 is simply because no one believes the business will amount to anything and grow further.

>>>>>>>>

stockraider Revisiting an old article from sslee on Insas. All the fundamental finding still valid loh!
This stock is making a 2nd attempt to break Rm 0.90 over the next 1 to 2 mths loh...!!

Raider see eventual target above Rm 1.00 by year end or by the latest chinese new year loh..!!

Calvin tan does not know all this things. He doesn't know that just because company sell assets doesn't mean they will give anything to minority shareholder. He doesn't realize that management who treat you as a partner/owner rather than an annoyance/necessary risk is the difference between a growing dividend every year and high director salary but no dividends to minority owners.

In short Calvin is a numbers fellow, but not a business guy. He looks for simpler metrics like NTA and assets, but he doesn't look too what the numbers tell you about the performance of the company, the attitude of the management and the long term prospects.

A garbage dump searcher always finds free stuff but never find treasure.

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Posted by whkwoon > Jun 28, 2019 9:55 AM | Report Abuse

Stupid counter, the last AGM last less than 20 Min, after keeping for than 15 years I cut loss RM50K 2 months ago, never trust this shares again

Ya gah. True gah. This young man smarter than Calvin gah.

I have no issue with cash call if it is used for business expansion or to increase cash levels for hunting big game.

I have a problem with cash call if it is used to pay debt it interest covers. It shows that management has not yet learned their lesson and expects father mother to pay for their mistakes while they proceed
to make more mistakes at your cost.
>>>>>

Posted by Icon8888 > Jul 4, 2019 11:25 AM | Report Abuse

fools and the mass knee jerk reaction every time there is a cash call

a contrarian investor that can think independently will see the nuances

and act differently

Need time and effort and patience.

You think mix rice with water can straight away eat? Need to cook and wait.

All you can do is make sure got rice in pot, got electricity and got water, with right amount of time, you will have your rice to eat.

Hurrying the process won't help.

Advice given without experience is simply assumptions.

Stockraider and Calvin tan says YINSON is overvalued and you should sell it to buy sapura and bumi Armada. Not much difference between those companies except luck. Well I should thank me lucky stars. A stock that is not a small cap that can be easily manipulated by kyy and influenced by otb and fooled by calvintaneng.

A wonderful company succeeds not because of share price manipulation, but because experts realize the future earnings and growth of YINSON is there. Who needs local buyers when foreign institutions and funds are buying in bulk. EPF can sell every share and still will not effect YINSON business in the future.

But maybe you should listen to stockraider and sell yinson to buy sapura and Armada.

This provides the clarity of income stream in the future. I it's long term chances.

But then again, like I con8888 likes to say, what is the moat in this business? Why good? Anyone with enough money and engineers can do this business. Nothing special.

So I rather keep my capital invested elsewhere.

>>>>>>>>


Patrick13 Many ppl say Cypark is good company, but comment that they have high debts and negative cash flows.
But look carefully, they are going to change business model from EPCC to recurring income. Once WTE and LSS all completed, they will get concession assets to generate long term profits and ease their debt burdens.
Next, they are higher chance to win the bid from LSS3.
22/06/2019 3:03 PM

Again with a roundabout Buddha remark. Obviously you have to compare with peers, otherwise how would you know if the company is a good company, a gruesome one, it a value trap if you do not have benchmarks.

How can you value a phone company without first having a benchmark in Huawei, apple and Samsung electronics?

If you do not use industry categorization to value, if you were a banker circle of competence, do you then use your banker mental models of accounting profits and losses only to invest in scentex?

If that is the case, I wish you all the best.

My advice, do not use circle of competence in one industry to benchmark returns in another.

Maybe you should stick to reading and not put money into the stock market. Your investing method would give you too many false positives, aka you won't realize the too good to be true investments, if you don't analyze the competitors and their returns out there.


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Posted by Ricky Yeo > Jul 3, 2019 11:00 AM | Report Abuse

Why does investing has to be "comparing to every similar company in the category"? A dollar of investment is a dollar of investment regardless of whether that dollar is invested in a property stock or a packaging stock, so why do you want to compare [similar] company in the category?

Comparing similar companies in an industry is useful to create contrast, to find out what things a company is doing differently from others, but investing is not bounded by industry categorisation, but circle of competence.

Comparing layhong management to QL management shows how smart stockraider is. He didn't understand how I bought ql when it was around 1b networth and watch my investment grow to 11b.

Even today he measures performance with share price movement instead of business growth of revenue and earnings.

Small office boy thinking, forever only look at what is in front.

Share price is volatile. Competitive business advantage is not.

Rumor mungers and lesser minds would be the first to repeat rumours that Gkent is a crony company.

Quick thinkers would have pointed out that all the rail tenders gkent participated in was an open tender and they were the lowest bidder.

Cronies usually cover the profits with directly awarded contracts or bring the highest bidder in open tender. Ergo fair game for MACC. So far I have not heard a single blip.

So where is the crony stock remark substantiated from? I have tried to find out but have yet to find any proof other than the fact they played golf together.

If that was the case, if I shook hands with azmin, does that mean we are gay partners together? Such a horrible world, politics.


>>>>>>>>>

con8888 Crony stock
03/07/2019 6:07 PM

Need to understand what bullshit is. Get lucky and hit bad luck? Do you even know the difference between FPSO and OSV and OMV? Maybe if you read a little bit and study a little more you will understand the difference between a carrier and a tugboat.

Not much difference my ass.

One specialise in FPSO the other one has 40% utilisation rate. Other than both works oil and gas business and is a ship at sea, they are worlds apart.

Like that might as well day not much difference between ramli burger and McDonald's. Both serve food.

But coming from someone who thinks INSAS is a Berkshire in bursa I got nothing much to say.

>>>>>>>>>

Posted by stockraider > Jul 3, 2019 4:57 PM | Report Abuse

U need to understand there is not much different between Armada v Yinson loh....!!

Just that Yinson got lucky whereas Armada was hit by bad luck mah...!!

Isn't the very fact that Gkent won a contract versus other competitors proof that it had a competitive advantage? There has to be a moat involved in getting to be the PDP of such a major project. And obviously there has to be some moat involved in getting the new fixed contract.

Previously, the contract as a PDP which involved consulting, monitoring and supervision was at a fixed rate ( consultant fee).In 2015, Prasarana appointed Malaysian Resources Corp Bhd (MRCB) and George Kent (M) Bhd as the PDP for the LRT 3 project at an approved construction budget of RM9bil. The PDP fee for the LRT 3 project, at its construction cost of RM15bil, would amount to RM900mil.

Now that Gkent has become the maincon and no longer need to worry about other parts, I am sure they will be looking at an even bigger payday.


>>>>>>>>

Gkent had not proven any competitive advantages other than contract was already awarded to Gkent. ( This is the very definition of a moat, when you can get something that others can't)

With a weird mindset like this somehow I highly doubt investorking has the financial capability to buy 6 million shares of armada.

EPF has 3rd party fund managers, different investing professionals with different mindsets. It is not one entity that buys and sell, or even one lead professional named Mr. Teffub bin Nerraw. It is a collection underpaid investment bankers who are closely monitored against front running and have specific kpi which is not necessarily to make money but more on diversification, safety of capital, fixed selling despite profit/loss to pay for dividend, and fully invested in market.


>>>>>>>>>>>>

Posted by InvestorKING > Jul 2, 2019 6:37 PM | Report Abuse

Actually it's AK who is the main shark collecting all those shorties shares in public then give back some to his partner , EPF, in order to attract more stupid shorties to short thier shares to AK operator

This sounds like a wise statement until you realize it is means exactly nothing and is a roundabout answer from someone who is more academically inclined than practical experience.

Investing is a concise, analytical activity. Why make it sound so mysterious and vaguely religious?

If you understand business, you will understand that there is no business on earth that has no competitors, peers or similar companies doing the same thing. In short, all business falls under a category or industry.

The challenge is to analyze a business and compare it to peers in the same category/industry/specialization and find out it's moat or competitive advantage versus it's competitors.

Simplified, how does it increase its profit and revenue and grow its market share. By taking it from other people in similar business.

Therefore: categorize.

For scientex you take all the film manufacturers in its industry and compare the costs to produce, the volume they produce versus the price to sell. Then you compare it with peers to understand how efficient they are as buyers will always buy based on a price/quality curve.

Then you take the properties they develop, find out the selling price, the average selling prices of housing in the area, then look at their location/average price and compare that with their profit margins vs that of other competing property developers. Then you will know exactly how efficient their property development eye, marketing and selling strength overall.

After you have dissected each of their business units and categorised each growth pattern Vs peers, they you can understand the entire company as a whole.

Reduce categorization? This is a very Buddha remark which I can't grasp. Investing is literally about picking up the best potential business based on current price/ future growth risk and comparing to every similar company in the category. I don't know any other way to value a business.

Can you elaborate on " understanding structure of the business?" And "seeing a company as it is?" Really interested to learn more.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Posted by Ricky Yeo > Jun 27, 2019 12:55 PM | Report Abuse

My suggestion is this: Try to see things as it is, reduce categorisation. Why do human categories things? To reduce complexity and ambiguity. To make faster decision 'property company, worth PE XX; O&G: Cyclical etc". We do that to companies. We do that to ourselves. "I am a Value Investor", or "I am a growth investors". You put yourself in a box. Sometimes that works, but there is a great cost when things go wrong.

So see a company as it is. Without throwing them into buckets like property, O&G, tech etc. See it as it is by understanding the structure of the business and how much future cash flow can it can generate.

But since I'm getting in the mood to humiliate and make fun of Stockraider again, let me elucidate exactly what moat means I'm Warren buffet owns words.

" Remember that a competitive advantage is essentially any factor that allows a company to provide a good or service that is similar to those offered by its competitors and, at the same time, outperform those competitors in profits. "

That is essentially a moat you retarded office boy! I'm his own words.

Geico moat is its low cost.
Coca cola moat is its taste and branding.
Midamerican moat is its high switching costs.
3M moat is its huge list of patents.
Google moat is its efficient services.

If your only concept of moats is only that of intangible assets (patents, license, brand recognition) then you really have to fucken read a lot more.

" Anybody can make a search engine. You got yahoo, altavista, Netscape, so many bigger and richer companies. What is so special about Google?" This was said 20 years ago.