Posted by probability > 2016-07-08 00:00 | Report Abuse

"an act of stupidity to the extreme level"..i like that quote..ha hah ha....

Posted by jassmen > 2016-07-08 01:24 | Report Abuse

Reits ok boh?

Posted by murali > 2016-07-08 08:41 | Report Abuse

Well for some who has RM50m, and still borrow another RM50m margin finance to speculate in the stock market, I really have nothing to say, except it is an act of stupidity to the extreme level, despite of whatever favourable outcomes he has achieved.

Hmm....

Posted by murali > 2016-07-08 08:43 | Report Abuse

I think whether it's stupid or not also depends on his result at the end....if make money not stupid..if dont make then stupid....

Posted by murali > 2016-07-08 08:46 | Report Abuse

With hundred millions in hand (own capital plus margin) and assisted by OTB (and Koon Bee System) i think not easy for some old man to lose money...unless he sok sok again go to hentam more Xinquan and similar co like Xinquan

Posted by murali > 2016-07-08 08:47 | Report Abuse

Like it or not he will continue to laugh till his last breath...

Posted by 007 > 2016-07-08 08:54 | Report Abuse

is fishing article to make money, wasting time reading

Posted by yfchong > 2016-07-08 09:07 | Report Abuse

Seriously after watching Bloomberg KS li interview not I understand my uncle koon is doing not because of $$. Is just to prove his view n approaches are in line n applicable... there is no right or wrong is just the destiny....overtime to tell. Conservative vs thinking out of box triz methodology. Cheers

Posted by meathere > 2016-07-08 11:29 | Report Abuse

......The next time any of them ask you to buy their products, first ask what they get out of it,.....There is huge conflict of interest in this industry......

Interestingly that is exactly what all business and capitalism is about. Making money or profit. Whether one is selling a product or service that is the core objective. Unless is purely for charity or 100% for humanity purpose. Even then one can argue the entity needs to cover its operation cost for providing the charity work for long term sustainability. Capitalism is not evil or bad concept...but along the way greed has somehow make this world the way it is now.

So, back to this article. Do one needs to invest during retirement - Yes n No - Depend on one's current financial standing, current protection/insurance, lifestyle spending, human nature, purpose, life aspiration, family interest, etc. All that and also taking into considerations the country/location one is retiring, inflation rate, living / medical expenses to name a few major factors.

Than, the choice or type of investments available out there. I don't agree on a general blanket statement like invest in stock market on your own will incur loss, or unit trust investment is not much better compared to FD, EPF/CPF return in the end, etc for that matter. Yes, one can say high chances, likely, but there are also many other outcome in between. What work for you best or one think is the better choice may not necessary be. Just like whether one needs to invest during retirement or not, one needs to evaluate one's financial situation, spare money, risk tolerance, return expectation, etc when choosing type of investment and also how much money and the source for the investment capital taken from.

Aren't we all always fishing for something to gain? Yes, I am too, for my own-self, & FROM my own-self.

Cheers.

Posted by paperplane2016 > 2016-07-08 15:51 | Report Abuse

U must know who is to be followed

Posted by murali > 2016-07-08 15:58 | Report Abuse

If u follow Koon Bee, make sure u are his SVIP or VVIPS..dont be his Rm960 clients..

If U follow Kc then U have to be patient (and sometimes a bit boring too)

If U follow Icon8888, u may see yr profit very fast coming in...the rate of winning is quite high too...maybe 70% and above and u buy after Icon8888 and his wife / girlfriends bought...not too late

Posted by murali > 2016-07-08 16:03 | Report Abuse

If u follow CPTeh u will go Tanjong Rambutan sooner that yr expectation

Posted by kcchongnz > 2016-07-08 16:22 | Report Abuse

Posted by jassmen > Jul 8, 2016 01:24 AM | Report Abuse
Reits ok boh?

http://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/kcchongnz/72196.jsp

Posted by 15% to 20% > 2016-07-08 17:44 | Report Abuse

Mind to share how you get RM700 ?

As the average Malaysian is expected to live until 75, retiring at 60 with RM167000 would mean surviving on just RM700 a month for the rest of their days. Can that amount of money provide him with a comfortable life style?

Posted by ppfoong > 2016-07-08 18:00 | Report Abuse

Cold eye is a retired man. He is still investing. He is a role model of investing during retirement.

Posted by murali > 2016-07-08 18:02 | Report Abuse

Cold eye uses margin ac i think

Posted by murali > 2016-07-08 18:03 | Report Abuse

And he is doing very fine for the past 8 years...i think his wealth increases many many times

Posted by murali > 2016-07-08 18:04 | Report Abuse

Prior to 2008 i didnt follow him that closely

Posted by murali > 2016-07-08 18:07 | Report Abuse

Unlike wb who can buy insurance co to acquire cheap funds..most of us hv to use margin financing to enlarge our capital for investment

Posted by kcchongnz > 2016-07-08 18:11 | Report Abuse

Posted by yfchong > Jul 8, 2016 09:07 AM | Report Abuse
Seriously after watching Bloomberg KS li interview not I understand my uncle koon is doing not because of $$. Is just to prove his view n approaches are in line n applicable... there is no right or wrong is just the destiny....overtime to tell. Conservative vs thinking out of box triz methodology. Cheers


In that interview, Li KS shows the interviewer a certificate of AIG in a plaque which share price has dropped by 91%.

What is the lesson? Asked the girl

He said, "The lesson is don't treat investing as gambling".

Posted by murali > 2016-07-08 18:12 | Report Abuse

Many used margin n got burnt badly...while many also make good money very very fast using margin ac..if kc uses margin i believe he can do very well too

Posted by murali > 2016-07-08 18:16 | Report Abuse

However if u were cpteh i will not only advise u not to use margin...its better for u to quit stock mkt completely

Posted by kcchongnz > 2016-07-08 18:32 | Report Abuse

Posted by yfchong > Jul 8, 2016 09:07 AM | Report Abuse
Seriously after watching Bloomberg KS li interview not I understand my uncle koon is doing not because of $$. Is just to prove his view n approaches are in line n applicable... there is no right or wrong is just the destiny....overtime to tell. Conservative vs thinking out of box triz methodology. Cheers

In the same interview, he was asked, "What is the most important thing in your business?"

"Cash flows." Li KS said.

Investing in a share is akin to investing in a business, part of a business to be exact. But how many people, some pouring milliosn in "investing", know what "cash flow" is?

Posted by kcchongnz > 2016-07-08 21:16 | Report Abuse

Posted by 15% to 20% > Jul 8, 2016 05:44 PM | Report Abuse
Mind to share how you get RM700 ?

As the average Malaysian is expected to live until 75, retiring at 60 with RM167000 would mean surviving on just RM700 a month for the rest of their days. Can that amount of money provide him with a comfortable life style?

Assuming the retirement fund is placed in bank deposit yielding 4%, the same as inflation rate,

Yearly withdrawal in today's money = 167000/15 years , which is about RM700 a month.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2016-07-09 08:35 | Report Abuse

Posted by murali > Jul 8, 2016 06:02 PM | Report Abuse
Cold eye uses margin ac i think

Posted by murali > Jul 8, 2016 06:03 PM | Report Abuse
And he is doing very fine for the past 8 years...i think his wealth increases many many times

Coldeye did do well in the past and he continues to do well. This is because he has good investing principles and methodologies.

If he uses margin account, it is probably alright. Bear in mind he has his down time too.

Every one has his right what to do in investing; whether he uses margin or not, what methods he uses etc.

But newbies and young people here are not Coldeye. Have you seen or read that he encourages and promoting youngsters and newbies to use margin finance before? I haven't, but I only read what he says here.


不过，切忌借钱买股票，理由是利息是固定的，收入却难以预测，故借不得。 Coldeye

He further says,

猜股市如抓黄鳝

我确实不知道明天，下个月或明年股市会怎样，我也不认为有谁有这样的本领。

http://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/kcchongnz/88651.jsp

Posted by murali > 2016-07-09 08:59 | Report Abuse

Yes, cold eye is my most respected sifu in stock market, in terms of his investing knowledge, willingness n selfless sharing and most importantly his intention is noble,unlike someone who is selling when he asked us to buy with margin. We all knew the difference.

My point is margin is a useful tool,but only to a certain qualified investors and u are one of them.

Posted by murali > 2016-07-09 09:03 | Report Abuse

Someone could be richer than cold eye,but in terms of investing and reputation, one is dog while one is god.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2016-07-09 09:23 | Report Abuse

Posted by murali > Jul 9, 2016 08:59 AM | Report Abuse
My point is margin is a useful tool,but only to a certain qualified investors and u are one of them.

Thanks for your looking up on me in your last sentence. It is hard to get such compliment from a straight talking fellow like you who doesn't mince his words. It is my honour.

When I wrote my first article on the pitfall of margin financing here, you can see i did use leverage and made amplified gain

http://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/kcchongnz/44344.jsp

But I don't tell in the public how great was i using OPM. It is not a great thing to tell the public how great is making money in the stock market using margin, something which can be very damaging to anyone if thing turns the other way,and it often does.

http://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/kcchongnz/82699.jsp

If you murali sincerely seek my advice if you should use margin, I will tell you no, not because you are not good in investing, but because the market can be highly uncertain and unpredictable.

Of course if you use margin, or anyone else does, it is your prerogative. I won't criticize you or anyone, not unless you propagate that to the general public, which then i think I have an obligation to do so.

Posted by murali > 2016-07-09 09:42 | Report Abuse

Fully agreed with u as i went thru 1998 n saw many people got burnt especially in second board counters where rm10+ counters limited down for several days to become penny stocks n then delisted...

I have been using margin ac for several years n so far so good as i hv my own margin of safety rules.anyway i dont promote ard on it

Posted by maomaochong > 2016-07-09 09:57 | Report Abuse

現金流就像血液循環，流進流出，是公司的根基

Posted by murali > 2016-07-09 10:07 | Report Abuse

As u may noticed, my comments towards you are always positive (though I may make fun on you in koon koon case occasionally).To me I see some of cold eye"s shadow inside u....
While at the same time I admit I have very low tolerance against conman n idiots here thus with the harsh comments.

Posted by murali > 2016-07-09 10:24 | Report Abuse

We simply have too many crooks (old n young,rich n poor) in i3. We certainly need people like you ,icon8888 n others

Posted by Alphabeta > 2016-07-09 11:25 | Report Abuse

The calculation of the monthly saving of RM 700 is a simplified version by assuming the 4% return is eaten up by the 4% inflation rate.

The correct way of calculating the annual withdrawal with an initial sum of RM 167,000 for a period of 15 years with an annual return of 4% should be:

(A + P/r)*(1+r)^n – P/r = 0

A= RM 167,000
R = 4%
n =15
P = annual withdrawal.

(167,000 + P/0.04)*(1+0.04)^15 – P/0.04 = 0
(167,000 + P/0.04)*1.8=P/0.04
300,600 = P/0.04 – 1.8P/0.04
P*(25-45) = 300,600
P = 300,600/-20
P = - 15,030 (which work out to be around RM 1,252.5 per month)

Posted by meathere > 2016-07-09 13:51 | Report Abuse

For a simplified reverse calculation everyone can do to get how much you need for retirement (general estimate):

- Assuming one is retiring at 55
- Expected lifespan to 80
- No more liability / loan / children education, etc
- Maintaining 80% of current lifestyle expenses (without liability)

e.g. 5k a month = 25 x 12 x 5k = 1.5m per person

If one start saving for retirement from age 25:

1.5m/30/12 = 4.16k++/month

Note:
- The compounded interest & EPF dividend will be sufficient to cover inflation rate with a bit of extra assuming you only save in FD and from EPF saving only - minimal return)
- If one's spouse can do the same; 8.33k/month for both of you without any liability.

Good enough 8.33k/month? Every year want to go oversea holiday? Than adjust accordingly.

Worried cannot even save enough for comfortable retirement? Assuming you do not want to pass your properties / house, etc to your children, you can sell to supplement as a last resort - 500k, 1m worth?

Welcome any comments or share your thoughts on this fast n crude retirement calculation / plan.

Cheers.

Posted by Alphabeta > 2016-07-09 20:14 | Report Abuse

The message from this article is to learn how to optimize return from your investments (defensive or growth) with minimum risks especially when you have retired.

If you can consistently get above general inflation return, then you can stretch your retirement funds. The ideal situation is to accumulate enough retirement nest egg to generate passive income to replace 80% of your active income as nobody know when is our last day.

When we retired and aged, medical expenses is a major issue depending your health condition. You need to be adequately insured especially on critically illness when you are young or prepared to set aside a tidy sum as emergency funds.

Posted by Lk036 > 2016-07-09 21:17 | Report Abuse

Ks55, what is your view of investing in reit such as igbreit, sunreit, pavreit or even stock like tasek than give better dividend more than 8%. I only worry about the consistency of the dividend compare to epf.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2016-07-09 21:46 | Report Abuse

Posted by Ordinaryman > Jul 9, 2016 02:38 PM | Report Abuse
167,000/ 15 / 12 = 928
Dont know why 700.
Ignore 3.8% interest rate because same like inflation


The calculation above is correct. The RM700 is for 20 years.

Note one must use real return. In this case the real return is zero when gross return is the same as inflation rate.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2016-07-09 22:19 | Report Abuse

Alphabeta,

The way you are doing is the withdraw is a gross amount when you use a gross return of 4%.

This gross amount cannot buy the same thing 10 years into your retirement. A burger may cost double it is now 15 years later.

We should work in term of real number, amount taking inflation into consideration. The real amount can buy the same thing every year.

Hence you should use the real return, instead of the gross return.

Real return = (gross return - inflation)/(1+inflation rate)



Posted by Alphabeta > Jul 9, 2016 11:25 AM | Report Abuse

The calculation of the monthly saving of RM 700 is a simplified version by assuming the 4% return is eaten up by the 4% inflation rate.

The correct way of calculating the annual withdrawal with an initial sum of RM 167,000 for a period of 15 years with an annual return of 4% should be:

(A + P/r)*(1+r)^n – P/r = 0

A= RM 167,000
R = 4%
n =15
P = annual withdrawal.

(167,000 + P/0.04)*(1+0.04)^15 – P/0.04 = 0
(167,000 + P/0.04)*1.8=P/0.04
300,600 = P/0.04 – 1.8P/0.04
P*(25-45) = 300,600
P = 300,600/-20
P = - 15,030 (which work out to be around RM 1,252.5 per month)

Posted by limko1 > 2016-08-01 16:40 | Report Abuse

As long as you are paying 5% commission for unit trust, chances of making any money is very very low. Why not invest in unit trust through online portal minus the agent?