Posted by stockmanmy > 2016-12-13 09:55 | Report Abuse

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performance can always be better but I have no complaints.

I am still alive and kicking and with positive returns.

Posted by datuk > 2016-12-13 09:58 | Report Abuse

FA would be greatest tool in guiding us if coupled with your built in core competency in that (your) industry and company via your knowledge specialization and insider networking.....just focusing in 2-3 industries that enable you to be a specialist .....the final outcome ...chiak beh lioa !!!!

The fundamental limitation in KYY approach i.e. the short term approach ..in coming profit must be better than last year.. the best you could get with this approach is silver material .....gold and diamond need longer times to emerge..it didn't working well for small investor with capital limitation....

Posted by datuk > 2016-12-13 10:03 | Report Abuse

FA is an excellence good start.....business sense and common sense only performing to a high degree of accuracy when your specialize knowledge increasing proportionately.

In this sense...KC approach is still workable to most of us.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2016-12-13 10:04 | Report Abuse

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soldiers die....that is a Law of the stock market.

anyone no critical thinking skills, no skepticism , no independent thinking space will die. Blind blind follow internet sifus will die and die already still don't know why. Sooner or later will die. More profits die faster when time come to die.

That is why I wrote the series on Dynamic Investing, more to come.

Posted by datuk > 2016-12-13 10:06 | Report Abuse

Never dive in the ocean of bursa without equipped with the basic skill in the swimming of FA....I think newbies will get beneficial to the most by just understanding and follow religiously this statement!!

Posted by kcchongnz > 2016-12-13 10:12 | Report Abuse

You wrote a series of 8 articles criticizing fundamental value investing. Do you really have a clue of what FVI is? Maybe you should read this firs to at least have a little bit of understanding what FVI is first,

http://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/kcchongnz/89477.jsp

Look at how you define your apa itu "Dynamic investing" below. Isn't that clearly pon lai pa investing?


Posted by stockmanmy > Dec 12, 2016 07:21 PM | Report Abuse
From the annals of Dynamic Investing.
http://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/stockman/110801.jsp

"I call it Dynamic Investing. I can also call it KYY investing . Its the way forward in the investing jungle. He made it but how? KYY is a practitioner of Dynamic Investing invented by KYY. I am the St Paul, the Mengtze spreading the message that can save the world .........the retail investor world."

Posted by stockraider > 2016-12-13 10:17 | Report Abuse

mammy,

Do not ridicule FA bcos it is a very success long term sustainable investment tech mah, of dynamic investment also good....all the negative point highlighted by KC.....the practioner of Dynamic investing would have cut & long gone, when the sell criteria is triggered mah.....!!

Dynamic investment are highly recommended for people that have no patience and with short investment time frame mah...!!
This dynamic thing is a momentum investing with safeguards mah...!!
If Kyy had practise the Golden rule....he would definitely had got off from Xinguan earlier....bcos the sale would have triggered loh..!!

The earlier days KYY practioner of FA, thats why he bought into XINGUAN and Jaya tiasa loh....!!
In fact Xinguan is a curse to innocent Fa practioner bcos of corporate governance issue & false accounting that failed the FA selection criteria loh.....!!
Moral of the story Fa must include corporate governance as a selection as well...!!

However Dynamic Investment need not, bcos if anything drastic happen..the automatic stopped would trigger mah...!!

Posted by tksw > 2016-12-13 10:26 | Report Abuse

kakaka, Accountant who depends on financial analysis skill set dun believe in financial analysis.... unbelievable...good or pariah accountant, like that?

Posted by datuk > 2016-12-13 10:28 | Report Abuse

The biggest setback in stock investment is investors are acted not rational. FA is a compass ensuring investor act rationally if applied discipline accordingly.

Discipline always the outcome of rational thinking, though not 100% in all cases.

Posted by tksw > 2016-12-13 10:30 | Report Abuse

dunno how such accountant feel when he present to the board all his financial ratios... Ending statement, "stupid boss, use your business sense la, why want me to prepare all these crab and waste everybody time on this management meeting?"

Posted by tksw > 2016-12-13 10:32 | Report Abuse

Stupid bankers oso, ask them to use business sense to approve loan la... why need all these projected financial statments to justify the loan approval, Security Commission oso stupid, need all past Historical Financial statement plus useless guesswork for listing approval..

Posted by stockmanmy > 2016-12-13 10:34 | Report Abuse

"I call it Dynamic Investing. I can also call it KYY investing . Its the way forward in the investing jungle. He made it but how? KYY is a practitioner of Dynamic Investing invented by KYY. I am the St Paul, the Mengtze spreading the message that can save the world .........the retail investor world."


KC...not bad eh?

you talk about no margin.....
but margin is so helpful in growing wealth

every entreprenuer I know has used borrowings in their lives.

Dynamic Investing is for the budding entrepreneurs, those with ambitions to be rich , rich like KYY, those who want the stock market to make a difference.

if they die trying, at least they die trying.

Posted by tksw > 2016-12-13 10:39 | Report Abuse

KCChong sifu, sometimes it is veli hard to educate someone who determined to carry legs, they dun have back bone like you. Irregardless of whether you are right or wrong on FA approach, U have back bone to stick to your judgement and carry out what you think should do. That is what ppl respect.

Posted by datuk > 2016-12-13 10:40 | Report Abuse

The above explanation is still insufficient to represent the entire spectrum of human behaviour....

We need to uncover working mechanism in human brain. Hence, the key pertinent questions are:

1) will discipline behaviour that produced by the rational mindset insulated from the distortion of emotional feeling?

2) Why and when the rational mindset prevent the applies of common/business sense? (example investment in Xinquan by KYY)

Posted by tksw > 2016-12-13 10:43 | Report Abuse

datuk sifu, laught die me ler...

Posted by stockmanmy > 2016-12-13 10:45 | Report Abuse

tk

Its business then people then numbers in that order.

You see that every where

That is how we can get Facebook and Amazon and Uber valuations.



in PE terms.....it is called the X factor. Normal PE plus X factor.


Don't leave home without X factor.

Posted by stockraider > 2016-12-13 10:51 | Report Abuse

Xinguan,

Earlier days fufil all the investment requirement...of FA mah..!!
Fa purist would have bought & bought Xinguan...that what happen to KYY mah......!!

Thus Pure FA without corp governance & risk management has big pitfall, thats why KYY....later yrs 2014 come out with Golden Rule mah....!!

Posted by datuk > 2016-12-13 10:56 | Report Abuse

I don't have the definite answer for the above questions...but...further questions might be able to path the way to that answer.....

1) Will warren buffet is still be a warren buffet if he staying in wall street the so-called the financial center instead of he stayed in Omaha ? Will a layman investor still be rational if he keep on stay tune in front of screen of PC during the entire trading session??

kikikikiki

Posted by Jason33 > 2016-12-13 10:58 | Report Abuse

stockraider,

KC use fundamental value investing to avoid xing quan.

don't blame the kungfu if you are the one who cannot master it.

Posted by stockraider > 2016-12-13 10:59 | Report Abuse

In fact, all business....is financial mah.....!!
The interpretation of financial is very important loh...!!
Unfortunately accounting is an art loh, 2 different accountant....may come out with different investment conclusion mah...!!
A good accountant will have more business sense loh...!!

However, savvy investors who use FA will understand the strength and limitation of the FA to come up with a successful decision loh...!!

Thus investment is not FA alone....it is a marriage of business sense, investment psychology, business principle, corporate governance, risk management, investment criteria & goals mah....!!

Posted by stockraider > 2016-12-13 11:04 | Report Abuse

KC,

I think KC fortunately is looking at the rear mirror, when he make his conclusion & analysis mah.....!!

Anyhow, raider is not KC...don know ...what he really thinking...but Xinguan earlier days look...very tempting based on FA loh...!!

Please recognise the FA pitfall also mah...!!

Posted by Jason33 > 2016-12-13 11:07 | Report Abuse

stockraider,

again, dun blame the kungfu if you are the one who cannot master it.

Fundamental value investing is more than just the numbers.

Posted by datuk > 2016-12-13 11:09 | Report Abuse

lacking of humility in investment is the gap that disconnecting rational thinking from business/common sense. Humility in investment is the ultimate symptomatic relief to most of us from inferior investment return!!

I think it's not easy to comprehend the above statement!!

KC....appreciate of your comment.....

kikiki

Posted by stockraider > 2016-12-13 11:16 | Report Abuse

Raider sparing partner...3ii understand & fear the pitfall of FA so much so....he come up with 15 investment criteria..on top of FA b4 he really swing loh..!!

So much so, he also lost so many investment opportunity loh...!!
In fact 3ii only focus on bluest of bluechips....confining to about 20 potential investable on very blue stocks out of more than 1000 klse stocks,....that fulfilled his very stringent requirement loh....!!

Moral of the story....there is tradeoff....he make less....but he is satisfy with consistent & steady reasonable return over long run loh..!!

Note...if anyone....follow 3ii approach....he need to pay a high premium....for the very good stock loh....thus return is lower but consistent mah...!!

Posted by Jason33 > 2016-12-13 11:20 | Report Abuse

to pay a high premium means it is fully or over valued. it may looked steady but the danger is there. any shock from the market will rattle those fully or over valued stock.

Posted by stockraider > 2016-12-13 11:21 | Report Abuse

Jason,

Don talk about kungfu...fail proof FA loh....!!

In fact raider experience enough to see some failure of very good Fa practioner loh....!!

Even great Ben Graham....the world greatest guru of FA...also failed in his selection too loh....!!

Ben Graham says if u are successful in 2 out of 3 calls base on FA u are already consider a very good analyst loh...!!

FA selection failure is embeded in the business model...of value investment mah...!!

Posted by Jason33 > 2016-12-13 11:24 | Report Abuse

i am not looking for 100% wins, as long as my winners is far bigger than my losers over a long period of time, and with the help of compounding effect, i am happy.

Posted by stockraider > 2016-12-13 11:26 | Report Abuse

Correct loh....also u must allow time for ur FA to work loh...!!

Posted by bintang21 > 2016-12-13 11:46 | Report Abuse

KC,
you are very contradicting in your teaching when you talking about GADANG
you always emphasize NOT look at one quarter result only ,go for annual and keep for long term 3 years 5 years , 10 year or forever as long as the price is still below its intrinsic value and earning sustainability still visible for the near future

I would like to share with you some data extracted from bursa market place

FREE CASH FLOW :
2012: RM41.62M
2013: RM110.89M
2014: -RM47.52M
2015: RM64.67M
2016: -RM1.14M

NET PROFIT
2012: 14.45M
2013: 20.47M
2014: 43.22M
2015: 59.84M
2016: 94.77M




So, what's wrong with GADANG's cashflow and earning ?
can you please kindly enlighten us ?
What make you feel so sure it can not and definitely can not replenish its order book in the near future?
what had made you feel so sure its 2018 result can not and definitely can not be better than the 2017?
Why Gadang is such a hopeless company to you are the freebie but meet all the requirements of the magic formula which is your most powerful winning formula ?

Posted by kcchongnz > 2016-12-13 11:55 | Report Abuse

Posted by bintang21 > Dec 13, 2016 11:46 AM | Report Abuse

So, what's wrong with GADANG's cashflow and earning ?
can you please kindly enlighten us ?
What make you feel so sure it can not and definitely can not replenish its order book in the near future?
what had made you feel so sure its 2018 result can not and definitely can not be better than the 2017?
Why Gadang is such a hopeless company to you are the freebie but meet all the requirements of the magic formula which is your most powerful winning formula ?


I never say there is anything wrong with all the above, except just a cautionary statement about its recent cash flows. I have say none of the above.

You have this confirmation bias that you will never want to listen to opposite opinion, which I don't wish to give you any opinion. There is no point.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2016-12-13 11:57 | Report Abuse

datuk,

Long time no see.

Thanks for your excellent views about value investing.

Posted by bintang21 > 2016-12-13 12:07 | Report Abuse

Posted by kcchongnz > Dec 13, 2016 11:55 AM | Report Abuse

Posted by bintang21 > Dec 13, 2016 11:46 AM | Report Abuse

So, what's wrong with GADANG's cashflow and earning ?
can you please kindly enlighten us ?
What make you feel so sure it can not and definitely can not replenish its order book in the near future?
what had made you feel so sure its 2018 result can not and definitely can not be better than the 2017?
Why Gadang is such a hopeless company to you are the freebie but meet all the requirements of the magic formula which is your most powerful winning formula ?


I never say there is anything wrong with all the above, except just a cautionary statement about its recent cash flows. I have say none of the above.

You have this confirmation bias that you will never want to listen to opposite opinion, which I don't wish to give you any opinion. There is no point.


KC,

is this the way you answer when you can not explain ?
who is confirmation biased ?
you or me ?
let the readers here be the judge .

Posted by stockraider > 2016-12-13 12:12 | Report Abuse

For Gadang....u must listen KYY loh.....!!
He has been into construction for so many many years....he is an expert & he knows all the nitty gritty of Construction loh....!!
It is to the reader favor to listen to KYY mah....!!

Posted by coolinvestor > 2016-12-13 12:15 | Report Abuse

well if the price is cheap enuf n if there is a margin of safety in the shares...why not

of course we have an added element here too. we can ride the upside wave when promotion is certain. then sell fast for fast profits.

i see no problem with using all information n advantages at hand to make money.

there really is no fav stocks in the markets. no attachments

Posted by stockraider > 2016-12-13 12:17 | Report Abuse

Business sense cannot think oneself meh ?
Must get people to think & give u meh ?

The unique thing of investment, u can be one man show mah...!!

Posted by sostupid > 2016-12-13 12:19 | Report Abuse

If you don't solve my problem for me please don't ask me to give you any money because if I can not use your "VV" I am very sorry you can keep your cheap stuff to yourself.

Posted by bintang21 > 2016-12-13 12:22 | Report Abuse

KC,

what if I say FA is simple valuation + common business sense
nothing much to learn , what more pay money to learn, the relevant information is easily available here and plenty of good analysis reports and great ideas and views shared by some value traders , generous bloggers and analysts of IB .

isn't the mentioned statement sound too general to a sifu like you and many readers here?
isn't it very irresponsible on my part to tell you and everybody here I do not owe you and any reader here any explanation ?

Posted by coolinvestor > 2016-12-13 12:26 | Report Abuse

well what is business sense?

some ppl have it, some just dun

look at all the cafes opening here n there. are all successful? duh..

look at the simplest hawker stalls everywhere...are all successful? double duh...

i think ...at the very least u need to either have it...or if not...learn some from successful ppl.

so what is it?

an inert intuition to take advantage of the present economics at hand to make money?

a good salesman with good speaking ability?

a good speaker to convince ppl?

coming from a business family n seeing other business ppl..some successful some failed..i see a vast combinations.

aggressive, thick skin, shrewd, cunning, smell the money, see an opportunity etc...see the future?

no right or wrong wor...

moral of the story....why argue so much about it? if u have it u will know...and if u dun have it....u will never understand why the other cafe has more ppl in it anyway...

i honestly think its only teachable..until up to a certain point for many ppl. some ppl are just born to be worker bees...this is the sad fact of life

good investing

Posted by bintang21 > 2016-12-13 12:39 | Report Abuse

Posted by stockraider > Dec 13, 2016 12:12 PM | Report Abuse

For Gadang....u must listen KYY loh.....!!
He has been into construction for so many many years....he is an expert & he knows all the nitty gritty of Construction loh....!!
It is to the reader favor to listen to KYY mah....!!



based on the common sense I absolutely agree with you
but do not forget KYY is out of the industry for a long time , I guess he was forced out because he can't tell NAJIB what to do like he was trying to tell KOK ONN how to cook the quarter profit.
he can sell all his gadang shares to punish KOK ONN
but he can't sell his Malaysian citizenship to punish NAJIB

Posted by datuk > 2016-12-13 12:56 | Report Abuse

my 30 years of experiences in stock investment:

1) I might be disappeared altogether and eaten alive in the bursa ocean
without the applied of FA knowledge. In the absence of FA, investment is
not more than a gambling activity that governed purely by luck.
Inevitably, the element of luck will be diminishing chronologically.

2) You are certainly to beat pure gambler with the applied of FA.

3) Specialized knowledge in the chosen sectorial with the combination of
fine skills in FA beaten most of the fund managers.

4) Humility in life and neutrality from the short-term volatility are
the two behaviours of a superior investor.

5) Only invest in the company that your trusted the owner and
their businesses.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2016-12-13 12:57 | Report Abuse

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This year, I have my fair share of profits in AAX, AirAsia warrant, KESM, Ecovest, AEONCR, Bornoil, Lihen, Keinhin and no notable failures.

it is such a mixture I don't think it is about FA or TA ( TA would not have helped me to maximise the profits, it is more to do with psychological factors and in all cases, my mistake is to sell too early.)

anyway, I don't use spreadsheets and any advanced jargons

Dynamic Investing is a necessary and sufficient condition.



On Tek Seng latest results, I looked at it and I see a potential bankruptcy within months, Others may see $ 11 million cash in the bank, laughable, or a temporary setback.

Choo Bee is a clear case the $4 NTA is no use and a clear case of a sell as it approaches the peak
Gadang is hopeless case once its last quarter results are announced

Posted by VenFx > 2016-12-13 13:09 | Report Abuse

Find something u are good at, peoples has no interest to read your so call Dynamite Fire works.

Posted by bintang21 > 2016-12-13 13:24 | Report Abuse

Posted by stockmanmy > Dec 13, 2016 12:57 PM | Report Abuse

Gadang is hopeless case once its last quarter results are announced




stockmanmy,

why hopeless?
just because of you boss KYY had sold all his shares?

you may be an accountant in a small firm busy looking for some side income from KYY . you are definitely not a financial practitioner working in a big corporate suggesting to the bod way and means to improve profit margin.

Posted by sostupid > 2016-12-13 13:31 | Report Abuse

If you don't lose money, most of the remaining alternatives are good ones.” Joel Greenblatt

Beautiful quotes without explaination. I don't like promises like FA that is too complicated I want RM500 instead of promises derived from FA. I believe any good chocolate is better than FA and when lunch time Laksi Lemma is better than FA because Laksi Lemma don't have to be beautiful to serve your appetitite. FA is beautiful promises from Beauty sergeon that if you are so ugly pleasee to one which is most willingly to help from the below linkage:

KC Chong (ckc13invest@gmail.com)

He has my highest regards and highest recommendations for you to get your facelift (your face clean up) by a Beauty sergeon to become the next YaYaMu.

Posted by sostupid > 2016-12-13 13:38 | Report Abuse

Teaching others is like teaching yourself you have to pick what you want to teach yourself to pick them on your article for those who would like to teach you to response to you. You are not a natural lecturer and they are not a natural student of you, this is call business sense, can you understand such deep and profound ideology. deep and profound is your article to teach people that you don't teach yourself. You are teacher always and other people like Mr. Kyy is surely and must surely be your student. What is this? I am starting to believe that they (the people)have no freedom in New Zeland for you to realize your mistake before you realize other people's mistake.

Posted by keke > 2016-12-13 13:39 | Report Abuse

gadang got hope if they able to secure contracts. management reiterates they are hopeful of achieving better result in FY2017.

remember, when the price has dropped too much, it will become undervalue again. furthermore gadang is a good company. when the price is right + good company, it will become a good buy.

General statement like "Gadang is hopeless case once its last quarter results are announced" is not acceptable. Is this what your por lan pa investing u are talking about?

Posted by sostupid > 2016-12-13 13:46 | Report Abuse

If you don't lose money, most of the remaining alternatives are good ones.” Joel Greenblatt
Good is not good enough because better than other people is not good enough. In order to show that you are better than other people you have to show that you are better than yourself. It takes (1)time, (2)discipline, and (3)patience for the results of (4) to become better than yourself,(5)to show other people they are not better than you, and that (6) they become better by working with you.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2016-12-13 13:51 | Report Abuse

bintang.....both KYY and I have written extensively on Gadang. Either you believe or you don't.

I bought a little bit with play play money at 91.5 sen on determination of ESOS pricing. For one reason or another, shares generally do well for 1 or 2 weeks after after determination of such pricing because this is the marketing period.....after that it is previous trend resumes.

Posted by coolinvestor > 2016-12-13 13:52 | Report Abuse

wonder is this really the investing fraternity....or the pasar malam one... hehe

Posted by sostupid > 2016-12-13 13:55 | Report Abuse

Keke: Good is not good enough because better than other people is not good enough. In order to show that you are better than other people you have to show that you are better than yourself. I dedicated this to you and not dedicated to Gadang, but only for you. Gadang has to show that it is better than yourself. This is missing "keke" how can I think you are more beautiful when you don't become more beautiful "keke". You have to pick the uglist "keke" to become the most valuable "keke" which is more valuable than what is so stupid or so fundamental "keke". We don't want fundamental "keke" we can not sell fundamental or something like water for a huge value similar to one like money. Beautiful is not a huge value "keke" to your grandpa when your gandpa is 85 years old. Simarly when "keke" is 95 years old 'keke" is the highest value only to grandpa and not to everybody else. "keke" you want to pick one that will last you when you are 95 years old but when you are not 95 years old "keke": Love is in the Eyes of the beholder. I can not love you but I can give you my jade.