Posted by Blacksails > 2017-03-29 21:03 | Report Abuse

blue chips counters like Maxis, Tenaga and Maybank.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2017-03-30 00:04 | Report Abuse

Posted by Blacksails > Mar 29, 2017 06:45 PM | Report Abuse
KC Chong, What is your opinion on Maybank-C24? Would you say call warrants are used by seasoned traders/ investors as an "insurance cover" in certain cases, if you know what I mean.


Writing, or selling an option, or call warrant is more for investment banks here, not traders/investors like those markets with matured option market.

The writer of options would have the underlying shares for those "covered warrants".

Posted by kcchongnz > 2017-03-30 00:06 | Report Abuse

Posted by Blacksails > Mar 29, 2017 08:46 PM | Report Abuse
If I'm not wrong, the first covered warrants were issued by PNB, and they were all blue clip counters. Believed PNB made a big loss in the end.

If PNB had hedged, or covered those written call warrants, they shouldn't be losing big.

They appeared to become speculators rather than as hedgers.

Posted by KLCI King > 2017-03-30 02:17 | Report Abuse

Fake accountant claimed to be better than fake accountants? Stockmanmy, you are making fun of yourself. What a JOKE of the day.

Posted by stockmanmy > Mar 29, 2017 06:35 PM | Report Abuse
kc, I am certainly better than those who spread fake news and accuse others of being fake accountants.

Posted by Icon8888 > 2017-03-30 07:09 | Report Abuse

Wrong. Choose your Warrants wisely as per KC. Otherwise your CW will be like old man tak boleh naik (due to high premium and low gearing)

Trading Volume is secondary. My Airasia C27 rose from 21 sen to 67 sen but all this while thinly traded

Don't believe me ? Go check the chart

manmy always think he very intelligent and made sweeping statement . He can bluff others, but cannot bluff old dogs like me and KC



Posted by stockmanmy > Mar 27, 2017 05:29 PM | Report Abuse

buying the c with the largest volume has a lot of advantages, the most important is that it will response quickly to market conditions..you do not want to buy a c that is half dead and shows no response.

Posted by Icon8888 > 2017-03-30 07:17 | Report Abuse

The correct way to choose is a combination of (1) low premium (2) high gearing and (3) long expiry

If you see something like the above, can whack big. The chance of profit is good

Volume totally irrelevant

Posted by Icon8888 > 2017-03-30 07:20 | Report Abuse

My latest exposure is C47. Cost 12 sen

But I bought not much. Only one twentieth of my mother share exposure. Instead I punt big on mother shares. The percentage return lower, but I can punt real big. You can't do that for Call Warrants. It is madness to put 40% (lets say) of your portfolio in an instrument that will expire in few months

Posted by Icon8888 > 2017-03-30 07:53 | Report Abuse

I would also like to take the opportunity to touch on the topic of sailang promoted by manmy. No body really sailang by betting big big on a particular stock. The process is gradual. You starts small, and as more info trickle in and things seemed to evolve in positive direction , you scale up your exposure (sometime drastically)

When visibility is really really good and risk very favorable, you execute the final "sailang" jump

That is the way it is done in real life

Posted by Icon8888 > 2017-03-30 08:14 | Report Abuse

There is nothing wrong with call warrants

You sprinkle it on your portfolio like you add spice to cooking. (Nobody cook and eat a whole pot of spice)

It will make your food super extra delicious

For example : Affin at 2.20 is cheap but not entirely sexy. But if you come up with some money to add some Affin CW to your exposure (let's say 10% of mother share value), the whole picture changes

Affin went up to 2.80 only recently but CW has gone from 11 sen to 70 sen+

So the return becomes very attractive



Posted by insulter > Mar 28, 2017 10:53 AM | Report Abuse

it is not a right thing to teach retail call warrant... most of the people lose until underwear lose...

Posted by cheoky > 2017-03-30 08:19 | Report Abuse

Thx for icon sharing

Posted by VenFx > 2017-03-30 08:24 | Report Abuse

Another inspiration food of thought .... good sharing from icon8888 bro.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-03-30 08:55 | Report Abuse

whack your head

so happens Air Asia up recently .

How many call warrants have expired worthless?





Icon8888 > Mar 30, 2017 07:17 AM | Report Abuse

The correct way to choose is a combination of (1) low premium (2) high gearing and (3) long expiry

If you see something like the above, can whack big. The chance of profit is good

Volume totally irrelevant

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-03-30 09:01 | Report Abuse

if you had bought the highest volume call warrant at the same time, you will not made any less in percentage and absolute terms....go check.



highest volume means that is the fairest with the most buyers and sellers at the relevant time.

Posted by Icon8888 > 2017-03-30 09:08 | Report Abuse

Well you might have your points, but so do KC and I

That is all I want to say

Posted by wiki123 > 2017-03-30 09:31 | Report Abuse

Icon, your education is always very good... may i know on low premium selection, how do you judge low premium? Do you set a target like below 10% or 20% or 30% is ok?

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-03-30 09:36 | Report Abuse

low premium means it is going to expire soon....simple as that.
forget about premiums, just buy those with the highest volume. At least you have plenty of smarter people with you.




wiki123 > Mar 30, 2017 09:31 AM | Report Abuse

Icon, your education is always very good... may i know on low premium selection, how do you judge low premium? Do you set a target like below 10% or 20% or 30% is ok?

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-03-30 09:42 | Report Abuse

icon

the theory of gearing and premium is not very sound.

Gamuda W and Genting W has high gearing but low premiums and long periods....and stays like that forever.

A better theory is penny warrants.....penny warrants always has very high premiums and next to zero gearing and way way out of money.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-03-30 09:52 | Report Abuse

you are focusing on the wrong thing.

The reason I participant in this thread is to say......precisely this...that people like you are focusing on the wrong thing.





wiki123 > Mar 30, 2017 09:31 AM | Report Abuse

Icon, your education is always very good... may i know on low premium selection, how do you judge low premium? Do you set a target like below 10% or 20% or 30% is ok?

Posted by Ricky Kiat > 2017-03-30 10:09 | Report Abuse

dumb dumb hold for c47 & mother share ...cheers...\(^-^)/

Posted by Ricky Kiat > 2017-03-30 10:11 | Report Abuse

hope can reach 6 digit profit. cheers...\(^o^)/

Posted by Shellhouse > 2017-03-30 10:12 | Report Abuse

Manmy, i dont think this is relevant to company issued warrants. Even more so for penny warrants. Structured warrants and company warrants behave very differently. Co warrants practically mirrors the mother share whereas SWs has the speculative element in them.

Premiums and gearing are just risk management mechanisms in place to reduce speculative risk in selecting SWs.


Posted by stockmanmy > Mar 30, 2017 09:42 AM | Report Abuse

icon

the theory of gearing and premium is not very sound.

Gamuda W and Genting W has high gearing but low premiums and long periods....and stays like that forever.

A better theory is penny warrants.....penny warrants always has very high premiums and next to zero gearing and way way out of money.

Posted by Shellhouse > 2017-03-30 10:14 | Report Abuse

and to illustrate your point of why Co warrants have almost zero premium, at least 95% of them

Posted by Ricky Kiat > 2017-03-30 10:17 | Report Abuse

whatever focus on which call warrant, make big money is most important, ready to change my 14 years old car .cheers...\(^o^)/

Posted by stockraider > 2017-03-30 10:19 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Shellhouse > 2017-03-30 10:22 | Report Abuse

This, you got it wrong.

v

Gearing or leverage....means how many times u get to borrow loh....!!
If the gearing is 10x....means if u put 10%...u can borrow 90% using warrant as a means of funding....instead of borrowing from the bank loh.......!!

Posted by Shellhouse > 2017-03-30 10:26 | Report Abuse

Gearing in warrants refers to sensitivity between warrant price and mother share.

High gearing can be both good and bad. e.g. 1 cent (mother) to 1 cent (warrant) move, or 3.5 cents (M) to 1 cent (W) move

Posted by Icon8888 > 2017-03-30 10:27 | Report Abuse

wiki, as a rule of thumb, for normal warrants with lets say 2 years life, I prefer premium lerss than 25%

for call warrants, prefer zero to 5% premium

if you want to buy high premium CW, you need to be careful of IB issuing additional new Warrants (all of them have the right to do so, you know ? just check any of the CW term sheet, it is a standard term). Anytime IB issue additional new call warrants, the existing Call Warrants will experience dramatic premium evaporation as people has the impression that the IB is going to dump the new warrants on them (which is not the case. It is a long story, sigh). If your premium is low, your CW will not be affected. If your premium is high, you can kiss goodbye to your money as you can expect the premium to disappear overnight

Posted by wiki123 > Mar 30, 2017 09:31 AM | Report Abuse

Icon, your education is always very good... may i know on low premium selection, how do you judge low premium? Do you set a target like below 10% or 20% or 30% is ok?

Posted by Shellhouse > 2017-03-30 10:27 | Report Abuse

HIgher gearing indicates the Warrant is more sensitive to mother share movements.

Posted by stockraider > 2017-03-30 10:29 | Report Abuse

Yes it mean sensitivity also loh...but on crude ways....for layman..it means how many time can borrow loh....!!
A high leverage means....very sensitive loh.....bcos borrowing alot mah......!!

Posted by VenFx > 2017-03-30 10:38 | Report Abuse

Bros & sis here, Would you give EG-wc a punt ? It is now at a merely 13% @$0.520
45 months to expiry. Consider getting less as it is in the semicon field.

Posted by VenFx > 2017-03-30 10:40 | Report Abuse

Ex -right , will be self adjusted to apprx $0.430 + a 1 for 4 existing warrant.
I hv drop a summary in it's thread.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-03-30 11:11 | Report Abuse

Just focus on the mother share movements and buy the highest volume warrants if you want more andrenaline......nothing else matters.

Posted by Blacksails > 2017-03-30 12:10 | Report Abuse

KC Chong, About a decade has past since PNB first issued those covered warrants in Bursa. Do you think the current issuers like IBs hedged all their call warrants?

Posted by Blacksails > 2017-03-30 12:14 | Report Abuse

PNB made a big loss on Maxis cover warrants then as it didn't anticipated Maxis price went very high and PNB started hedging late.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-03-30 12:20 | Report Abuse

Just focus on the mother share movements and buy the highest volume warrants if you want more andrenaline......nothing else matters.

The market will decide for you what is the appropriate combination of term, premium , gearing and beta fluctuations.

It is not for you to decide.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-03-30 14:17 | Report Abuse

Air Asia, they give you many CW to choose.
Is this real choice or Hobson's choice?

You think you are so smart you can choose the one cW that will make you money while the rest will lose you money?

is that arrogance, ignorance or stupidity?

it is just marketing gimmick to suck you in.....like a supermarket with many choices of cigarettes.

I think a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

your task is not to choose the one CW that will make you money. Your task is to read the Air Asia trend correctly.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2017-03-30 15:21 | Report Abuse

Posted by Blacksails > Mar 30, 2017 12:10 PM | Report Abuse
KC Chong, About a decade has past since PNB first issued those covered warrants in Bursa. Do you think the current issuers like IBs hedged all their call warrants?


If IBs do not have the underlying share before issuing those call warrants, those warrants are "naked" warrants, not termed as "covered" warrants.

If IB has the underlying shares before writing those call warrants, then the rise/fall of the underlying shares/warrants do not matter that much, as warrant price moves in tandem with the underlying shares. The loss in warrants is compensated with the rise of the underlying shares it possesses, and if the hedging is done correctly.

Posted by 明天会更好 > 2017-03-30 15:25 | Report Abuse

有很不错的讨论，也有无理取闹的死硬派，辛苦作者了。

谢谢分享，愿大家明天会更好

Posted by kcchongnz > 2017-03-30 16:04 | Report Abuse

Posted by stockmanmy > Mar 30, 2017 11:11 AM | Report Abuse
Just focus on the mother share movements and buy the highest volume warrants if you want more andrenaline......nothing else matters.

Posted by stockmanmy > Mar 30, 2017 02:17 PM | Report Abuse
Air Asia, they give you many CW to choose.
Is this real choice or Hobson's choice?
You think you are so smart you can choose the one cW that will make you money while the rest will lose you money?
is that arrogance, ignorance or stupidity?
it is just marketing gimmick to suck you in.....like a supermarket with many choices of cigarettes.
I think a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
your task is not to choose the one CW that will make you money. Your task is to read the Air Asia trend correctly.


This article has shown you, with numbers, that precisely by choosing the call warrants with low premium, high gearing yields you the best returns such as C34, +43.5%, C35 at +25.2%, against C40, the highest volume? that incurred total loss.

So please show your records, with numbers on the statement as claimed by you, to justify that you are not "arrogance, ignorance or stupidity.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-03-30 16:38 | Report Abuse

kc


you mislead people

You compile a table of warrants and profit and loss at expiry dates.


of course, there will be some in the money, some out of money at expiry date because all of them were issued with different terms.......

you have shown nothing meaningful.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-03-30 16:41 | Report Abuse

so I now know, finally I now know KC.....talking nice, is in reality a very misleading guy.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-03-30 16:56 | Report Abuse

why don't you say c34 and c35 are the ones with the highest volume?


you cheat and you know you cheat.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2017-03-30 18:47 | Report Abuse

Posted by stockmanmy > Mar 30, 2017 04:38 PM | Report Abuse
kc
you mislead people
You compile a table of warrants and profit and loss at expiry dates.
of course, there will be some in the money, some out of money at expiry date because all of them were issued with different terms.......
you have shown nothing meaningful.



I misleading people? where and how?

Table 1 in this article clearly shows that C34 and C35 with zero premiums, expire with cash settlement of a gain of 43.5% and 25.2% respectively after two months as shown in table 2.

Table 1 also shows C40 with a premium of 36.6% two months earlier, and with the same expiry date as C34, expires with total loss as shown in Table 2.

Isn't that very clear a call warrant with low premium with a better outcome at expiry?

Volume was never talked about volume in the article. It was not that relevant for me.

You are the one who say again and again and again that the call warrant with the highest volume is the best. So, show us, which warrant has the highest volume and has it got a better outcome?

Shows numbers, evidence, proof etc, and not simply bark!

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-03-30 19:39 | Report Abuse

ok, I withdraw my comments.

You did not cheat.

I did some tests today. The market is not as efficient as I thought.

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-03-31 10:16 | Report Abuse

call warrants are killing the market.

shares have great difficulties going up when so many call warrants are issued.


ban call warrants.

Posted by Risk Rider > 2017-03-31 11:03 | Report Abuse

KYY asked me where is his dog? I replied him how do I know? He is so free until now barking everywhere everyday in i3

Posted by Risk Rider > 2017-03-31 11:04 | Report Abuse

Every time I see stockmanmy, it will remind me of a song: Who lets the dog out?

Posted by 稻田·* 片片绿青~粒粒芳香 > 2017-03-31 11:07 | Report Abuse

Is stockmanny sticky fan of KC chong?

Posted by paperplane2016 > 2017-03-31 11:11 | Report Abuse

Suit. Bila insas

Posted by stockmanmy > 2017-04-01 21:26 | Report Abuse

In an efficient market , it should be indifferent whether it is c1, c2, c3 or c4.

Its an interplay between low premiums, high gearings and long periods.

Depends what you want.

In an inefficient market, sometimes you can have lower premiums even for different call warrants with the same period and gearing even for the same stock.