Posted by SarifahSelinder > 2019-07-21 12:18 | Report Abuse

Value trap

A counter that is littered with bodies of value investors

Tens of thousands of value investors have sworn no more insas... never ever

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-21 12:20 | Report Abuse

YES THERE ARE MANY WAY TO SKIN A CAT, MARGIN OF SAFETY VALUE INVESTMENT ON INSAS, IS A TIME TESTED SUCCESSFUL INVESTMENT FORMULA MAH...!!

Posted by Ayoyo > Jul 21, 2019 11:04 AM | Report Abuse

I see Philip as someone who has a strong belief in his investment philosophies and is stern and assertive in bringing across his perspectives for the betterment of the community

See? Same event? Different perspective? You saw arrogance, my view was the above.. Which felt better? The need to be right or the need to be at peace? If one insists on being right, be prepared to fight... I choose to be at peace

It brings clarity of thought and is a integral mental practice towards my spirituality and indeed, the profitability of my trading..

I trade for a living and if I can't even find peace with and within myself (always blaming MM, syndicates etc), I'm royally screwed forever more. In life, it's always mind over matter.. Always had been. Always will.

Good luck

Posted by Icon8888 > Jul 21, 2019 10:50 AM | Report Abuse

Me too. I benefit a lot from Philips wisdom (and OTB, KYY, KC, even newbie SSlee, etc... everybody has something I can learn from)

But doesn't mean philips has to be so arrogant

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-21 12:23 | Report Abuse

INVESTING IN INSAS IS DEALING WITH UNCERTAINTY IN A VERY SMART WAY LOH.....!!

Posted by qqq3 > Jul 21, 2019 11:41 AM | Report Abuse

KC and OTB cannot deal with uncertainties and cannot deal with disagreements............To them, only people who prays at their feet, who eats out of their hand are qualified to talk about stock market.

I say two fingers to you both....................

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-21 12:26 | Report Abuse

THIS FELLOW DO NOT UNDERSTAND HIGH FINANCE LOH...!!

INSAS MKT CAP IS RM 560M, THE PUBLIC PORTION WORTH ONLY RM 360M MKT CAP MAH!!...BUT IS SHAREHOLDERS FUND IS 1,660M LOH..INSIDE HERE THERE IS RM 550M NET CASH & NOT COUNTING INARI VALUE MAH.

U MEAN IF THONG APPROACH THE BANKS FOR RM 500M TO TAKEOVER , THERE ARE NOT INTERESTED ??
IF THAT IS TRUE, I WOULD JUMPDOWN THE RIVER KLANG LOH...!!

Posted by experttanengyee > Jul 21, 2019 9:05 AM | Report Abuse

A STUPID DIVERSION TACTIC FROM KCCHONG.CLAIM TO BE QUALIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER BUT DON'T KNOW BASIC CFP.A QUALIFIED, EXPERIENCED WOULDN'T EVEN DARE TO SUGGEST/WRITE ANYTHING THEORETICALLY,THEORY.
Of course a fake wouldn't know this very basic rule.so stupid!


1) Did I say "theoretically", or "according to kcchong's theory" in my post?
2) Did I use "theoretically", or the word "practically"was used.

Next, are you a banker specialized in borrowing? Can you explain why someone needs a net worth of RM6 billion in order to have collateral to borrow RM530m?

Posted by Sslee > 2019-07-21 12:47 | Report Abuse

Dear stockraider,
Insas own about 600 milion Inari share 19.19 %. Tell me from Inari listing umtill now who still hold so much of initial holding?
Thank you

Posted by Aseng > 2019-07-21 13:03 | Report Abuse

I believe more on God's teaching than God himself

may it be my God is KYY or Cold-eye


世间有八苦，最苦求不得

作者:行沙

　　世间有八苦：生、老、病、死、离别、怨憎、所欲不得及无阴盛苦！
　　
　　然，最容易也最让人难以解脱的莫过于“求不得苦”。
　　
　　越是想得到的东西，往往越是得不到，古往今来，多少风流人物痴缠于此，唏嘘不已！
　　
　　记得佛家有一则故事，佛陀阿难出家前，在道上见一美貌少女，从此爱慕难舍。阿难对佛祖说：我喜欢上了一女子！佛祖问阿难：你有多喜欢这女子?
　　
　　阿难说：我愿化身石桥，受那五百年风吹，五百年日晒，五百年雨淋，只求她从桥上经过。
　　
　　是啊！世间多少人一生中没有遇见过让其怦然心动的美丽人儿，结果却是有缘无分，擦肩而过！
　　
　　即使，千方百计，费尽心思，有些东西也是求也求不来的，千帆过后，终究是最后的过客。
　　
　　然，有些人在错过今生之后，往往期许来世。期许来世能够再次相遇，执手来生。
　　
　　然，来世的事，又有多少人能够知晓！
　　
　　也许，有缘真的能够相遇。
　　
　　也许，一辈子都不曾遇见。
　　
　　“但曾相见便相知，相见何如不见时，安得与君相决绝，免教生死作相思。”
　　
　　有时候，相遇不如不曾遇见，向来缘浅，奈何情深。有缘遇见，无缘在一起也是一种煎熬。
　　
　　不是不在乎天长地久，而是不曾拥有！没有拥有过何谈天长，何谈地久！
　　
　　然，世间最痛苦的事莫过于有些人和事，无关与你。
　　
　　因为，那不是属于你的，你无权，也没有资格。
　　
　　不由喟然长叹：世间最苦求不得！

Posted by Aseng > 2019-07-21 13:11 | Report Abuse

I believe krono can perform better than insas

that is want i had asked for but may not get what I had wanted

KC always said : a right bet may not be a good bet

insas looks a right buy but may not turn out a good buy

krono doesn't look a right buy but it may turn out a good buy

who know ?

nobody knows, but everyone pretend he knows all, of course including me

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-21 14:14 | Report Abuse

and what is margin of safety?

I do not agree safety is measured by NTA or NAV since u have zero control.

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-21 14:24 | Report Abuse

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/paradigm-shifts-ray-dalio/

what does this tell u?

it tells it is all about dualism, about yin yang.

Posted by Ooi Teik Bee > 2019-07-21 14:40 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Ooi Teik Bee > 2019-07-21 14:41 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Ooi Teik Bee > 2019-07-21 14:51 | Report Abuse

Posted by Sslee > Jul 21, 2019 11:52 AM | Report Abuse

Hahahaha,
Qqq3 everyone are qualified to talk investment only those pros trader like you who promoted Jaks and Sendai with margin finance and Sailang causing bloodbath everywhere and you profited from it again and again are deceitful, unethical and boy crying wolf so often. Now everyone know what you are up to.

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-21 14:55 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-21 15:14 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-21 15:31 | Report Abuse

sslee


since I made money on Jaks/ Sendai on the way up, I consider it my skill/ luck

since I did not lose money on Jaks/ Sendai on the way down, I also consider it my skill / luck.........

I see nothing wrong......................

but one thing I don't do.....I don't sell subscription service, and I don't take in students...........


and every time I trade, I cannot guarantee I will be right .........................

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-21 15:34 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Sslee > 2019-07-21 16:32 | Report Abuse

Dear all,
We are trapped
https://klse.i3investor.com/jsp/blog/blpost.jsp?blid=4321&blpid=216063

Thank you

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-21 17:00 | Report Abuse

and what is margin of safety?

I do not agree safety is measured by NTA or NAV since u have zero control.

If U have controlling interests, then its a different matter...........

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-21 17:20 | Report Abuse

Insas

Non-Operating Interest Income
16,297.0 (2018)
11,902.0
11,845.0
10,508.0
7,624.0 (2014)

nterest Expense
22,790.0 (2018)
20,442.0
17,724.0
14,631.0
9,080.0 (2014)

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-21 17:23 | Report Abuse

Insas earned interest of 16.3 m in 2018 but incurred interest expense of 22.8 m for the same year.

Doesn't appear to be too cash rich.

Please explore its off balance sheet datas further. Is it guaranteeing or responsible for loans taken by its subsidiaries (off balance sheet)?

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-21 17:38 | Report Abuse

SSLee

Kindly enlighten us on the interest income and interest expense of Insas?


Did raider the troll-ey explained these in his numerous posts on Insas?

Posted by Sslee > 2019-07-21 17:48 | Report Abuse

Dear 3iii,
35 FINANCE COSTS
Finance costs comprise of the following interest expenses:-
2018 2017
RM’000
Interest expenses on:-
- term loans: 7,344 6,084
- bank overdrafts: 300 595
- revolving credit facilities: 4,778 2,653
- hire purchase payables: 4,361 4,854
- dividends on RPS: 5,937 5,908
- dividends on RCPS: 35 148
- margin financing facility: 35 200
Total: 22,790 20,442
Thank you

Posted by cheoky > 2019-07-21 17:54 | Report Abuse

practise second level thinking pls.

after heavy discourse on insas by famous stockraider, sslee and kc buffet, insas still lingering there. Rumour of major holders thinking insas is dirt cheap yet market still stagnant the price. no more new value investor will go in. at least this year.

pls discourse more on boilermech, give same dividend, net cash and having a growing and bright future and selling cheaper than insas per unit. plus, i got vest invested. I will help you promote more. Mr Chia together Philip Fisher will work hard to ensure it too. Ms Yeo will love you too.

Posted by Ayoyo > 2019-07-21 18:01 | Report Abuse

Negan, although I said I won't post anything more on this topic of religion / spirituality, I'll just answer you to give you a perspective

Elon musk will not need to crack this link.. Why? Because this matrix-like universe already exists within our space

Simple example...

Do NOT think of a pink elephant... And yet the image of a pink elephant conjures up in your head..

Before the iPhone ever came into existence, the image of how it'd look like, the colors, features and functions already existed in the mind of Steve Jobs

The mind is the conduit to the abundance of the universe.. You don't need a blue or red pill or some wires connected to your head

Control your mind and you will control your destiny,
What the mind can conceive, it will achieve - are some common phrases you've heard

I'd recommend you to read a book written in the 1930s - Think and Grow Rich by napoleon Hill.. Google it up, there's a free pdf floating around..

It's the best self improvement book I've ever read.. It delves into the mindset, thinking and mannerisms of the rich, and how they attract their wealth..

Always remember this - the mind is like a parachute, if only works when it's opened

Posted by Negan > Jul 21, 2019 11:23 AM | Report Abuse

Ayoyo! They say every living things have soul! But what if Elon Musk finally crack the link between human mind and computer! And successfully transfer your consienceness to a powerful server! Then you realise without biological body, you can see and travel within the net! And before long, Matrix is born!

Posted by Sslee > 2019-07-21 18:02 | Report Abuse

Dear 3iii
2018 2017
RM’000
Deposits with licensed banks and financial
institutions consist of the following:-
- fixed deposits: 327,850 319,481
- short term deposits: 244,853 141,611
The effective interest rate for deposits with licensed banks and financial institutions of the Group and of the Company range from 0.005% to 4.04% (2017: 0.01% to 4.50%) and 2.55% to 2.80% (2017: 2.55%) per annum respectively

Interest income 2018 2017 from:- (‘000)
- deposits and cash balances placed with
licensed banks and financial institutions: 14,450 10,218
- associate companies: 417 360
- loans and receivables: 1,099 646
- held to maturity investments: 285 638
- others: 39 28

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-21 18:21 | Report Abuse

SSLee


For year 2018 Insas

Total interest income = 16.3 m

How good is Insas in generating its returns from the massive cash and short term investments?


ROI on cash and eq = ?


Why is this figure so low?

Posted by Icon8888 > 2019-07-21 18:25 | Report Abuse

zzzz

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-21 18:33 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Ayoyo > 2019-07-21 18:33 | Report Abuse

Negan, nothing can be more delusional than someone who believes he can just think his way to riches without effort ..even if you wanna hit 4d,you've gotta get your ass up to buy that ticket

Contrary to what most people, it's not hard work that determines success.. It's passion

You've just scratched the surface on the laws of the universe.


I'd suggest you follow the works of Abraham hicks to fully understand what law of attraction really means.. She gives such amazing clarity on the subject matter

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-21 18:41 | Report Abuse

2108


Cash and eq 915 m

Interest income 16.3 m


ROI cash & eq = < 1.8%.!!!!

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-21 18:43 | Report Abuse

Ironically, DY of Nestle is also 1.8%.
:-)

Posted by Sslee > 2019-07-21 19:01 | Report Abuse

Dear i3lurker,
I still have 2/3 wealth in FD earnimg miserable interest. I treat investment in Insas can give me return more than FD. I bought more Insas when it is below RM 1.00 as I am bullish on Inari future and Insas provide me a cheaper entry cost to indirectly own Inari. I am also confident Insas will give better dividend if we minority shareholders demand it.

Thank you

Posted by Ayoyo > 2019-07-21 19:07 | Report Abuse

Negan, hard work is a fringe benefit of passion...this is the difference

Thomas Edison made countless experiments before discovering the light bulb.. When asked how did he handle his initial failures? He said, I didn't fail 10000 times. I just found 10000 other ways that won't work...

The path to trading profitably for a living is fraught with many initial disappointments... You try all and sundry, charts, candles, indicators, follow some so called Sifu until you burn your ass out....

Do not look down on old teachings.. It contains tonnes of wisdom... For instance, I trade only with price and volume per Jesse Livermore days ... Nothing else

And I can say that the chart of insas look really interesting.. Depending how the next few days pan out, it may be ripe for a position... (I have no positions yet)

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-21 19:08 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-21 20:39 | Report Abuse

want to pray also must ask what can change?

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-21 20:39 | Report Abuse

what are they betting on? what is the bet?

Posted by No right Nor wrong Only to Win > 2019-07-21 21:06 | Report Abuse

Why not pray for the
safe of genting ahmoi's Manson ?

Flash flood bukan meh ?

Posted by No right Nor wrong Only to Win > 2019-07-21 21:20 | Report Abuse

Insas need not pray lah !

More fall more hamtam kind of stock.

Shud pray for ahmoi at genting stay peacefully lah !

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-21 21:22 | Report Abuse

some pray for insas shareholders, some pray for ahmois..........

I don't pray, I bet................

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-21 21:24 | Report Abuse

don't go Genting so often.........

uncle LIm not good for u.................

Posted by No right Nor wrong Only to Win > 2019-07-21 21:24 | Report Abuse

Which hotel,
let me buy you aid tongkat ali .

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-21 21:25 | Report Abuse

To understand the risk of Insas better, study further its cash equivalent (short term investments). What are these? What are the returns from these? How safe or risky are these short term investments?

Also, why is Insas holding so much cash? Are these collaterals for their loans from the creditors?

Posted by Icon8888 > 2019-07-21 21:27 | Report Abuse

zzzzzz

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-21 21:28 | Report Abuse

3iii...a lot of so called cash are not cash of Insas.....they belong to customers..............They have a stock broking operation.........

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-21 21:52 | Report Abuse

where u have casinos , u will have China dolls...


they are in symbiotic relationship.

Posted by Sslee > 2019-07-21 22:13 | Report Abuse

Hahahaha,
qqq3 the more you talk the more you expose yourself as fake accountant or you become so rusty as you had not practicing accounting for the past 20 years.
Dealer’s representatives’ deposits and clients’ trust monies received of RM81,667,000 (2017: RM106,394,000) are excluded from deposits with licensed banks and financial institutions of the Group in accordance with Financial Reporting Standards Implementation Committee Consensus 18: Monies Held in Trust by Participating Organisations of Bursa Malaysia Securities Berhad.

Dealer’s representatives’ deposits and clients’ trust monies received of RM80,121,000 (2017: RM11,111,000) are excluded from cash and bank balances of the Group in accordance with Financial Reporting Standards Implementation Committee Consensus 18: Monies Held in Trust by Participating Organisations of Bursa Malaysia Securities Berhad.

So it mean: Dealer’s representatives’ deposits and clients’ trust monies received of RM80,121,000 are excluded from:
1. Deposits with licensed banks and financial institutions
2. Cash and bank balances

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-21 22:20 | Report Abuse

SSLee

Since you have close to 1 m shares in Insas, please check out the points and issues I have highlighted and raised.



3iii

Posted by Sslee > 2019-07-21 22:28 | Report Abuse

Dear 3iii,
Ok, I will wait for the 2019 financial report and prepare my questions for AGM. Thank you for raising your concerns.

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-21 22:34 | Report Abuse

I think you should be able to find the answers reading the latest annual report.

Posted by Sslee > 2019-07-21 22:44 | Report Abuse

Dear 3iii,
As on 30th June 2018 INSAS have deposits with licensed banks and financial institutions in Australia of equivalent RM 155,816,000. Board have explained to me that INSAS park the money in Australia for investment opportunity outside Malaysia. During previous BN government it is close to impossible to transfer money out of Malaysia (Central Bank tight money remitting control). INSAS keep so much cash for the same iCapital Tan Teng Boo reason, investment strategy prepare for market to crash and be spoiled for choice to pick up beaten down quality stocks

Thank you