Posted by dumbMoney > 2020-09-20 17:19 | Report Abuse

Cash is also an investment choice, because it has a rate of returns, so the company is fully invested at all times. It is like TTB making the argument that if the cash portion of the portfolio is excluded, his stock portfolio's performance would have been much higher. Why didn't he also not charge management fee on the cash portion, if that is not part of his investment portfolio?

Posted by dumbMoney > 2020-09-21 04:08 | Report Abuse

By staying in cash, the value fund manager is saying cash is the best investment I can think of at the moment, among all stocks out there. All this talk about waiting for the opportune time to buy is that of a market timer, not a value investor. A market timer has only a binary decision to make, is the market too high or too low, and whether he is right or wrong. If it is not the right time, then no need to screen through the thousands of companies and do all the fundamental analysis on value.

Posted by ThePowerOfGlove > 2020-09-21 04:47 | Report Abuse

.

Posted by ThePowerOfGlove > 2020-09-21 04:48 | Report Abuse

No movement at all

Posted by ThePowerOfGlove > 2020-09-21 04:48 | Report Abuse

Lagi tidor juga kah

Posted by ThePowerOfGlove > 2020-09-21 04:48 | Report Abuse

Still hibernating juga kah

Posted by ThePowerOfGlove > 2020-09-21 04:48 | Report Abuse

Apa daah

Posted by ThePowerOfGlove > 2020-09-21 04:48 | Report Abuse

What la

Posted by ThePowerOfGlove > 2020-09-21 04:49 | Report Abuse

Don't know when going to move

Posted by ThePowerOfGlove > 2020-09-21 04:49 | Report Abuse

No idea

Posted by ThePowerOfGlove > 2020-09-21 04:49 | Report Abuse

No clue at all

Posted by ahbah > 2020-09-23 11:11 | Report Abuse

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wQFaX83l1E

Posted by JohnDough > 2020-09-27 13:58 | Report Abuse

“Graham delivered the silver bullet of investing when he said the three most important words in investing philosophy are “margin of safety”.

Recognising that it is essentially impossible to pinpoint the precise intrinsic value of a business and that the best you can do is compute reasonable ranges of value based on reasonable assumptions, Graham thought you should give yourself a break by making sure the price you pay is way lower than the low end of your valuation estimate.

Graham said the margin of safety principle ultimately served as the touchstone in distinguishing between investing and speculation. Those who deny the difference between price and value or fail to get a margin of safety take their seats at the roulette wheel. Place your bets!”


How to Think Like Benjamin Graham and Invest Like Warren Buffett – by Lawrence Cunningham

Posted by Sslee > 2020-09-27 21:22 | Report Abuse

If you are tired with iCapital Tan Teng Boo you can try INSAS Dato Wong Gian Kui

https://klse.i3investor.com/jsp/blog/blpost.jsp?blid=4321&blpid=394624

Posted by tnang > 2020-10-01 18:41 | Report Abuse

at the end , icap is funding Fund manager only. no dividend nor rewards.

Posted by stockraider > 2020-10-01 19:54 | Report Abuse

Lets kick out TTB from icap...as fund Manager loh...!!

Appoint someone better like Dr Neoh loh....!!

Posted by dumbMoney > 2020-10-01 23:49 | Report Abuse

Apparently, if TTB is no longer the fund manager, the company cannot continue to use the name iCapital.biz. He owns that name's IP. That's why he can treat it like he is the owner.

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > 2020-10-02 09:53 | Report Abuse

Warren buffet moved so far away from Graham cigar butt investing that Graham today will never touch any of Berkshires equities portfolio. Charlie was a huge influence to Warren in buying wonderful companies for a fair price.

Is any of icaps assets wonderful companies? I highly doubt so.

>>>>>>>

JohnDough “Graham delivered the silver bullet of investing when he said the three most important words in investing philosophy are “margin of safety”.

Recognising that it is essentially impossible to pinpoint the precise intrinsic value of a business and that the best you can do is compute reasonable ranges of value based on reasonable assumptions, Graham thought you should give yourself a break by making sure the price you pay is way lower than the low end of your valuation estimate.

Graham said the margin of safety principle ultimately served as the touchstone in distinguishing between investing and speculation. Those who deny the difference between price and value or fail to get a margin of safety take their seats at the roulette wheel. Place your bets!”


How to Think Like Benjamin Graham and Invest Like Warren Buffett – by Lawrence Cunningham
27/09/2020 1:58 PM

Posted by stockraider > 2020-10-02 11:51 | Report Abuse

The problem is TTB do not practice Graham nor warren buffet method mah..!

TTB is a market timer but claim he is a value investor loh...!!

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > Oct 2, 2020 9:53 AM | Report Abuse

Warren buffet moved so far away from Graham cigar butt investing that Graham today will never touch any of Berkshires equities portfolio. Charlie was a huge influence to Warren in buying wonderful companies for a fair price.

Is any of icaps assets wonderful companies? I highly doubt so.

>>>>>>>

JohnDough “Graham delivered the silver bullet of investing when he said the three most important words in investing philosophy are “margin of safety”.

Recognising that it is essentially impossible to pinpoint the precise intrinsic value of a business and that the best you can do is compute reasonable ranges of value based on reasonable assumptions, Graham thought you should give yourself a break by making sure the price you pay is way lower than the low end of your valuation estimate.

Graham said the margin of safety principle ultimately served as the touchstone in distinguishing between investing and speculation. Those who deny the difference between price and value or fail to get a margin of safety take their seats at the roulette wheel. Place your bets!”


How to Think Like Benjamin Graham and Invest Like Warren Buffett – by Lawrence Cunningham
27/09/2020 1:58 PM

Posted by JohnDough > 2020-10-04 18:58 | Report Abuse

“If there is one thing that the Covid-19 pandemic has taught investors throughout the whole world, it is this. Cash is really a king. What do we mean? Benjamin Graham said: “You will be much more in control, if you realize how much you are not in control”. When we held cash, it was due to two reasons.

One, despite searching high and low, we were unable to find attractively priced investments. Two, unexpected events will always happen and one needs to be ready to manage them. By holding cash, we were being very humble and patient as we realised how much we are not in control.

Despite the constant battering that I have been receiving from a large investor, I have stuck to our time-proven investment philosophy and held on to a relatively high level of cash in the last few years. Who could imagine a world that is instantly turned upside down by a microscopic virus?

It has shuttered businesses and schools, wreaking havoc on global economies and leaving millions unemployed. Businesses and companies that we one thought were resilient and recession-proof turned out to be the highly vulnerable.

Our strongly guarded cash holdings have made icapital.biz Berhad the strongest company on the stock exchange. If not for the false negative perception created by some people, its share price ought to be selling a premium to its NAV.

Seth Klarman, a well-regarded value investor puts it more graphically: “The inability to hold cash and the pressure to be fully invested at all times meant that when the plug was pulled out of the tub, all boats dropped as the water rushed down the drain”

What is the secret of Charlie Munger’s investing success? He said: “You don’t make money when you buy a stock, you don’t make money when you sell a stock, you make money by being patient and you make money by waiting”.

Of course, one needs to have the cash to take advantage when the opportunities arise. Compared with 31st May 2019, I have precisely been doing this. Finally, this year's Annual General Meeting will be most interesting. Whether held physically or virtually, please make sure you attend.”


icapital.biz berhad 1Q21 report – commentary by fund manager

Posted by fong7 > 2020-10-05 07:57 | Report Abuse

creepy JohnDough, creepy creepy .....

Posted by dumbMoney > 2020-10-05 15:28 | Report Abuse

The latest quarterly accounts show a NAV of $2.86 per share, comprising $1.74 in bank deposits (ignoring cash on hand) and $1.12 other assets, mostly share investments. Market price is $1.94. If the company buy back one of its own share from the market for this price, it will get back $1.74 cash and $1.12 share investments, so net cash outflow is $1.94-$1.74=$0.20, and increase in share investments is $1.12, a 460% return on cash investment. With the $1.74 cash bought back, it can then buy around 0.9 shares from the market, getting the equivalent of 0.9x1.74=1.57 in cash and $1 in share investments. So after two rounds of share buybacks, net cash outflow is $1.94-$1.57=$0.37, and bought back $1.12+$1 = $2.12 in share investments. Wash, rinse and repeat the cycles.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2020-10-06 15:23 | Report Abuse

Remember that by implication, existing shares in the portfolio are considered better investments than all the other shares out there by the fund manager, that's why he is still keeping them. So buying more of them at a great discount should be a no-brainer for shareholders.

Posted by firehawk > 2020-10-06 16:05 | Report Abuse

dumbMoney The cash portion, until deployed or liquidated, is an idle asset on the balance sheet, not earning any returns to investors at the current low interest rate, after paying the 1.5% management fee and taxation on the interest. This is the latest quarterly results:
Interest income 1760
Management fees & expenses (1738)
Taxation (357)
So shareholders get zero net returns on the cash portion of the portfolio. It is only assets for the manager's fee income, not shareholders. Nice to look at, that's all for the time being.
12/09/2020 4:36 PM
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Give u a thumb up for this!

Posted by dumbMoney > 2020-10-06 18:45 | Report Abuse

@firehawk, Thanks. Facts and figures don't lie.

Posted by Constant > 2020-10-06 19:09 | Report Abuse

His annual report commentary is cringy as fxxk, comparing himself to Benjamin G, WB, Charlie M and Philip Fisher. I thought he surely would have bought some glove stocks but alas, he did nothing and wrote commentary in Warren Buffett annual letter style. His notion about cash being a call option with no strike price is shamelessly stolen from Warren Buffett like his own mantra. Oh boy...

Posted by enigmatic [control your emotions, discipline your mind] > 2020-10-10 00:36 | Report Abuse

dumbMoney Remember that by implication, existing shares in the portfolio are considered better investments than all the other shares out there by the fund manager, that's why he is still keeping them. So buying more of them at a great discount should be a no-brainer for shareholders.
_____________________________________________________________________________

That explains why TTB bought back SAM & APM. Kinda gutted he didn't utilise more cash in the first half of 2020 to acquire more shares.

Posted by JohnDough > 2020-10-11 14:04 | Report Abuse

“Investment is most intelligent when it is most businesslike.

It is amazing to see how many capable businessmen try to operate in Wall Street with complete disregard of all the sound principles through which they have gained success in their own undertakings.

Yet every corporate security may best be viewed, in the first instance, as an ownership interest in, or a claim against, a specific business enterprise.

And if a person sets out to make profits from security purchases and sales, he is embarking on a business venture of his own, which must be run in accordance with accepted business principles if it is to have a chance of success”


The Intelligent Investor by Benjamin Graham

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > 2020-10-11 14:17 | Report Abuse

Would ben graham invest in Berkshire Hathaway or it's businesses like stoneco, snowflake today? I doubt it.

Today, will Warren buffet invest in a business like icap? I am pretty sure he will not.

Then, why are you investing in icap whole parroting the words of Warren buffet and value investing?

You cannot doubt that the last 3-4 years investing in icap was an exercise in futility.

Anyone who buys icap had no idea what investing is.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2020-10-11 16:03 | Report Abuse

I sold all my iCap shares in Nov 2012 at $2.35 and switched to Eastspring Investment Small Cap Fund on a dollar averaging basis. The total periodic returns is around +227%. Go to https://www.fundsupermart.com.my/fsmone/funds/fund-info/factsheet/MTPRUSC/Eastspring-Investments-Small-Cap-Fund#perform
Key in the starting and ending dates in the Fund Tool, Fund Returns section and it will generate the total returns, after adjustments for dividends, over the requested period.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2020-10-11 16:08 | Report Abuse

Just a note, The above fund is now closed to new investors, so sorry, can't switch now.

Posted by stockraider > 2020-10-11 18:27 | Report Abuse

Just sell & switch to insas mah...!!

So simple loh....!!

Posted by dumbMoney > Oct 11, 2020 4:08 PM | Report Abuse

Just a note, The above fund is now closed to new investors, so sorry, can't switch now.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2020-10-11 19:02 | Report Abuse

@stockraider Insas has corporate governance issue. There is no actual need for fund raising through rights issue. It's a ploy for the controlling shareholders to accumulate warrants on the cheap, to replace the previous batch that expired out of the money. It is sitting on half a billion cash at the moment but not buying back shares at such deep discount.

Posted by stockraider > 2020-10-11 19:07 | Report Abuse

Don be sohai loh...!!

Icap has bigger corporate governance issue mah...!!

Almost all icap monies park in fd in order to lock in TTB fees for next 5 to 10 years mah...!!

Btw...insas is positive...its PA give a yield of guarantee 3.8% pa much higher than fd rate of less than 2% pa and better than icap no return loh!

Insas PA will help the retirees & widowers to earn a decent fixed return mah....!

Posted by dumbMoney > Oct 11, 2020 7:02 PM | Report Abuse

@stockraider Insas has corporate governance issue. There is no actual need for fund raising through rights issue. It's a ploy for the controlling shareholders to accumulate warrants on the cheap, to replace the previous batch that expired out of the money. It is sitting on half a billion cash at the moment but not buying back shares at such deep discount.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2020-10-11 23:38 | Report Abuse

$stockraider: I also have Insas, but instead of doing rights issue, they should be buying back share s instead, as my share buy back examples apply equally to it, except that the cash portion is much lower, but the effect on NTA is much higher because of the deeper discount. This is what I am complaining about. The company don't need the extra cash. Why do low margin risky money lender business when it can buy back shares at 30 sen to the ringgit?

Posted by dumbMoney > 2020-10-11 23:46 | Report Abuse

Insas market cap is more than 90% backed by cash and they want to do a rights issue?

Posted by dumbMoney > 2020-10-11 23:51 | Report Abuse

$firehawk, please check your I3 messenger box for pm.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2020-10-12 05:03 | Report Abuse

Corporate governance and fiduciary duty means management must act in the interest of the company and shareholders. So which is the more compelling action, a rights issue or share buyback when the company is flushed with liquidity and the shares are trading at a deep discount?

Posted by Sslee > 2020-10-12 07:32 | Report Abuse

Insas can't do SBB because Dato Sri Thong and PAC hold 32.96% and SBB will trigger the 33% conditional MGO.
The RI is for Dato' Sri Thong to collect the warrants as insurance Policy to safeguard against stockraider hostile take-over.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2020-10-12 09:43 | Report Abuse

@Sslee That's why I said company has corporate governance issue - possible conflict of interest.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2020-10-12 10:32 | Report Abuse

Even if the MGO is triggered or he wants to take the company private, at this price level, how many shareholders would want to throw their shares to him?

Posted by Sslee > 2020-10-12 13:05 | Report Abuse

Dear dumbMoney
https://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/Sslee_blog/2020-10-04-story-h1514447264-Insas_In_giving_we_receive.jsp
These are a typical preemptive line of defense against a hostile corporate takeover and can be subjected to abuse/misuse by controlling shareholders to increase their shareholding above 33% and offer conditional MGO at unfair price. As an example Dato’ Sri Thong and PAC can buy Insas shares from open market triggered the 33% threshold and offer 5-day VWAMP which the Board appointed adviser will surely advice to reject the offer because the offer price is unfair and unreasonable. So the MGO fail but Dato’ Sri Thong already holding big % warrants as his insurance policy, Dato’ Sri Thong can just ignored the minority shareholders rights for a fair price and still can continues increase his holding from open market as long as he do not trigger another MGO for one year period (Not more than 2% at rolling 6 months). Is this fair to minority shareholders?

I really cannot understand why nowadays people are becoming more and more self centered and everything must be me first (Bad influence from Donald Trump). Where are the spirit of sharing and prosper-thy-neighbour?

Please give a thought on in giving we receive

Posted by stockraider > 2020-10-12 13:43 | Report Abuse

What Governance issue leh ??

Think positively loh, insas inability to do share buy back, offer investors big opportunity to accumulate cheap insas with deep margin of safety loh..!!

Just follow General Raider to take advantage of this rare wonderful opportunity mah...!!

Posted by Sslee > Oct 12, 2020 7:32 AM | Report Abuse

Insas can't do SBB because Dato Sri Thong and PAC hold 32.96% and SBB will trigger the 33% conditional MGO.
The RI is for Dato' Sri Thong to collect the warrants as insurance Policy to safeguard against stockraider hostile take-over.



Posted by dumbMoney > Oct 12, 2020 9:43 AM | Report Abuse

@Sslee That's why I said company has corporate governance issue - possible conflict of interest.


Posted by dumbMoney > Oct 12, 2020 10:32 AM | Report Abuse

Even if the MGO is triggered or he wants to take the company private, at this price level, how many shareholders would want to throw their shares to him?

Posted by dumbMoney > 2020-10-12 14:38 | Report Abuse

Another value trap then!

Posted by Philip ( buy what you understand) > 2020-10-14 11:12 | Report Abuse

Why are you guys talking about Insas in icap forum? It has already been proven that Insas management does not act for the benefit of minority shareholders and thus has corporate governance red flag. No self respecting institution will invest in Insas, that is a given.

Icap on the other hand is just being managed by a poor find manager that value his capital far more than a good return on assets under management.

During the meeting the key thing to bring up is how efficient is he investing on behalf of investors. If I can get 6.3% investing in epf fixed income assets, and you can get 13% investing in passive vanguard index fund of sp500, then why invest in ttb icap find whose ROE is beyond ludicrous low.

Why indeed? I might as well put that money in fixed deposit myself. Why do I need to pay fees to ttb to manage it for me?

Posted by Sslee > 2020-10-15 07:17 | Report Abuse

Good morning Philip,
So which is worst:
Poor Fund Manager or Board act not for benefit of minority shareholders?
Mind recommend any big sharks that might interest to make a coporate raid on Insas?

Posted by dumbMoney > 2020-10-15 16:02 | Report Abuse

@Sslee, please check your i3 Messenger app for p.m.

Posted by JohnDough > 2020-10-18 13:06 | Report Abuse

"In the 1986 Berkshire Hathaway annual report, Warren Buffett looked back on his first twenty-five years as a CEO and concluded that the most important and surprising lesson from his career to date was the discovery of a mysterious force, the corporate equivalent of teenage peer pressure, that impelled CEOs to imitate the actions of their peers.

He dubbed this powerful force the institutional imperative and noted that it was nearly ubiquitous, warning that effective CEOs needed to find some way to tune it out. The CEOs in this book all managed to avoid the insidious influence of this powerful imperative. How? They found an antidote in a shared managerial philosophy, a worldview that pervaded their organisations and cultures and drove their operating and capital allocating decisions.

The business world has traditionally divided itself into two basic camps: those who run companies and those who invest in them. The lessons of these iconoclastic CEOs suggest a new, more nuanced conception of the chief executive's job, with less emphasis placed on charismatic leadership and more on careful deployment of firm resources.

At bottom, these CEOs thought more like investors than managers. Fundamentally, they had confidence in their own analytical skills, and on the rare occasions when they saw compelling discrepancies between value and price, they were prepared to act boldly.

If they couldn't identify compelling projects, they were comfortable waiting, sometimes for very long periods of time (an entire decade in the case of General Cinema's Dick Smith)."


The Outsiders: Eight Unconventional CEOs and Their Radically Rational Blueprint for Success by William N. Thorndike, Jr.

Posted by popo92 > 2020-10-19 14:22 | Report Abuse

To link tan teng boo with warren buffett, its totally an insult for warren buffett. tan teng boo is still stuck in cigarbutt approach, look at most companies he have bought in. Companies with declining business advantages, or even no moats at all. Which business he bought have a clear dominant position, or increasing competitive advantages, which have a good economic of scale? He also misinterpreting the meaning of what charlie had said the big money is from waiting, in fact tan teng boo is waiting for a crash by holding non productive assets: cash. He clearly don't understand the waiting by holding wonderful business at fair value, is way better than buying fair business at cheap price. And by looking at what his approach is, i see he is buying crappy business with cheap historical share price. He should be studying micro business rather than forecasting and trying to interpret macro economy..

Posted by Nepo > 2020-10-19 16:30 | Report Abuse

..ohooo...to late to buy..icap...the train starts to leave the station...bad ttb consservative mind..huge pile of cash do nothinngggggg..