Posted by yeowyc > 2013-08-05 12:36 | Report Abuse

KC,

Do you monitor Supermx?

Supermx lose around 56 million for Forex column for last quarter financial report due to strong MYR against USD.

But recently MYR drop alot against USD. Can we expect huge profit for Forex column for this quarterly report or next quarterly report?

Do you think recent upside price due to that reason?

Can this apply to other major exporter counters?

Correct me if I'm wrong


Kindly advised.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-08-05 13:25 | Report Abuse

yeowyc, it certainly looks like the weaker Ringgit has a positive effect on Supermax and other export oriented companies. Market participants often refer to exchange rate to trade on a export orientated company's stocks. Normally i don't pay attention to the exchange rate because currency goes up and down and it is really hard to predict the direction. For long term investing, I concentrate on the company's business more.

Posted by TeckChuan Lee > 2013-08-08 22:33 | Report Abuse

Dear KC
Questions

1. Quoted from your thread, 'In Search of Excellence'

'At the price of 48 sen now, Willow is trading at a PE ratio of just 7.7 (<20). Market Enterprise Value is only 4.6 times EBIT (<8). Price-to-book is only at 1.6 (<2). I would say a good company of Willow is selling very cheaply.'

Why do you use <8 as a guide for EV/Ebit?
Why do you use <2 for P/BV?

Just wondering how you set your limits when you value a company.


2. From annual reports where do you get the idea how much the directors are paid? from compensations and dividends? Total compensation/Revenue > 3%

Posted by TeckChuan Lee > 2013-08-09 03:00 | Report Abuse

Dear KC, NTPM 2012, the income statement states all sorts of expenses. To calculate EBIT, Im only leaving out 'other operating expenses' , 'finance cost' and tax only right?

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-08-10 18:05 | Report Abuse

Posted by TeckChuan Lee > Aug 8, 2013 10:33 PM | Report Abuse
Dear KC
Questions
1. Quoted from your thread, 'In Search of Excellence'
'At the price of 48 sen now, Willow is trading at a PE ratio of just 7.7 (<20). Market Enterprise Value is only 4.6 times EBIT (<8). Price-to-book is only at 1.6 (<2). I would say a good company of Willow is selling very cheaply.'
Why do you use <8 as a guide for EV/Ebit?
Why do you use <2 for P/BV?
Just wondering how you set your limits when you value a company.

there are many investing strategies. the strategy here is looking for good companies and see if they are selling at reasonable price. Once you have decided that willow is a good company from its operating numbers such as high ROE and ROIC, good cash flows, then you want to know if it is trading at reasonable price. Don't expect to find good companies trading at cheap price, do you?

So a PE ratio of 7.7 isn't expensive. And EV 8 times of Ebit isn't expensive too. Inverting those ratios gives you an earnings yield of 12%-14%. This earnings yield compared to fixed deposit is good, isn't it? The benchmarks are just a guide and could be arbitrary, but don't you think they are logical.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-08-10 18:11 | Report Abuse

Posted by TeckChuan Lee > Aug 8, 2013 10:33 PM | Report Abuse
2. From annual reports where do you get the idea how much the directors are paid? from compensations and dividends? Total compensation/Revenue > 3%

Look at the remunerations for the directors, or directors' fees. This does not include dividends. Dividends are distributions to shareholders, though directors are also shareholders.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-08-10 18:22 | Report Abuse

Posted by TeckChuan Lee > Aug 9, 2013 03:00 AM | Report Abuse
Dear KC, NTPM 2012, the income statement states all sorts of expenses. To calculate EBIT, Im only leaving out 'other operating expenses' , 'finance cost' and tax only right?

Ebit is earnings before interest and tax. It is in fact "operating profit" in the income statement itself. You cannot leave out "other operating expenses". "finance cost" and tax is after Ebit which are left out.

Posted by TeckChuan Lee > 2013-08-11 02:11 | Report Abuse

Thanks a lot KC.

Do you mind to do a review on HUNZPTY?

1. EBIT, what is 'fair value adjustment', and is it included inside EBIT?

2. IC, 'investment properties' & 'properties dev. cost' , is it included in IC?

3. CAPEX, again is 'investment properties' included? since it is a properties development company.

Posted by TeckChuan Lee > 2013-08-11 02:54 | Report Abuse

From your KELADI post,

''The major shareholder Datuk Robert Wong or something owns a few smallish public listed companies and this man is notorious of share manipulation.''

Where do you get info like this?

Is there anyone else we should be aware of?

Posted by TeckChuan Lee > 2013-08-11 03:12 | Report Abuse

Can you refer to L&G FY2012 Footnote No.42

Realized and unrealized profits. Anything affecting our EBIT?

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-08-11 08:28 | Report Abuse

Posted by TeckChuan Lee > Aug 11, 2013 02:11 AM | Report Abuse
Thanks a lot KC.
Do you mind to do a review on HUNZPTY?
1. EBIT, what is 'fair value adjustment', and is it included inside EBIT?

FAIR VALUE ADJUSTMENT IN WHAT? IF IT IS FAIR VALUE ADJUSTMENT TO THE VALUE OF A PROPERTY, THEN I DON'T TAKE AS PART OF EBIT BECAUSE IT IS ONE-TIME, NON-CASH AND HAS NO MEANING TO ME.

2. IC, 'investment properties' & 'properties dev. cost' , is it included in IC?

IF INCOME FROM INVESTMENT PROPERTIES IS PART OF OPERATING INCOME (MOST LIKELY IT IS), THEN IC WOULD INCLUDE THAT. PROPERTY DEV COST FOR PROPERTY COMPANY IS PART OF IC.

3. CAPEX, again is 'investment properties' included? since it is a properties development company.

IF THE ORDINARY BUSINESS OF A PROPERTY DEVELOPMENT COMPANY ALSO INCLUDE INVESTMENT INCOMES FROM INVESTMENT PROPERTIES SUCH AS FREQUENT BUYING AND SELLING OF INVESTMENT PROPERTIES, GETTING RENTAL INCOMES AS PART OF ITS OPERATING INCOME, THEN IT IS PART OF THE CAPEX. OFTEN IT IS NOT.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-08-11 08:30 | Report Abuse

Posted by TeckChuan Lee > Aug 11, 2013 02:54 AM | Report Abuse

From your KELADI post,

''The major shareholder Datuk Robert Wong or something owns a few smallish public listed companies and this man is notorious of share manipulation.''

Where do you get info like this?

Is there anyone else we should be aware of?

I READ SOMEBODY'S POSTING ON THIS BEFORE AND BELIEVE IN HIM. I DON'T KNOW EVERYTHING. I KNOW VERY LITTLE ABOUT THIS STUFF.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-08-11 08:32 | Report Abuse

Posted by TeckChuan Lee > Aug 11, 2013 03:12 AM | Report Abuse

Can you refer to L&G FY2012 Footnote No.42

Realized and unrealized profits. Anything affecting our EBIT?

WHEN YOU POST A QUESTION, BE SPECIFIC. I CAN'T READ EVERYTHING YOU ASK ME TO READ. AND I DON'T KNOW EVERYTHING.

Posted by TeckChuan Lee > 2013-08-11 09:15 | Report Abuse

THANK YOU AGAIN KC.

Posted by houseofordos > 2013-08-13 00:26 | Report Abuse

KC, a question on bonus issues from Pintaras. In Pintaras' balance sheet for 2012 I did not find any mention on treasury shares. I looked for share buyback notices in Bursa and also found none. Based on Pintaras share capital of RM80m, where is the bonus share coming from ?

Posted by tonylim > 2013-08-13 00:53 | Report Abuse

Bonus issues comes from "distributable reserves" in the company balance sheet as defined in the companies law

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-08-13 05:09 | Report Abuse

Pintaras didn't have any mandate to buy back shares. Not sure if they have now from the shareholders. Hence there is no treasury shares in the equity portion of the balance sheet. The management may think that it is not appropriate to buy back its own shares when the stock is already illiquid. The major shareholder have been buying the shares if I am not wrong.

Bonus issues arises with the increase of shareholders' capital. In Pintaras's case, from 80m to 160m, and a corresponding decrease in "retained earnings", or "distributable reserves" in tonylim's term. Pintaras has 184m in "retained earnings". The equity remains unchanged. So do you see the so-called "benefits" in this bonus issue exercise? Pintaras can even give a 2 bonus shares for 1 share held if it wants. But what is the point?

Of course the point is once bonus issues is decided, investors start to chase the share price of the company. In Pintaras's case, it seems to serve the purpose of "unlocking" the value of the company.

Treasury shares are normally used for share dividend distribution exercise. It has nothing to do with the share capital, unless the treasury shares are cancelled off.

Posted by houseofordos > 2013-08-13 08:00 | Report Abuse

thanks both for the explanation

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-08-13 20:52 | Report Abuse

Allow me to discuss something which this thread was originally created for with this iafx.

Posted by iafx > Jul 12, 2013 03:32 PM | Report Abuse
whenever si-tipu-roti-canai start to "punt" a counter with wonderful cerita, making formula here and there, that counter is sure to drop. now kps $1.66... tks to this taufu-fa again
don't believe? juz briefly follow his bogus posting and c for yourself. hahahaaa... can't even get the roe def correct, yet so shameless
time will tell, when market goes down all these taufu will disappear :D

iafx said that "whenever si-tipu-roti-canai start to "punt" a counter with wonderful cerita, making formula here and there, that counter is sure to drop."

Now I want to tell him that since January 21th this year when my original portfolio was posted by TanKW, the average return of all the stocks in my portfolio is now 42.3%, more than 4 times the market return of 9.7% of the same period as shown in Table 1 below. Not a single stock is in the negative territory, absolutely none.

I started with a new portfolio, together with OTB exactly two weeks ago. Thanks TanKW for compiling it. Now the return of the new portfolio is 11.4% as shown in Table 2 below, 10 times the return of KLSE of 1.2%. Again none of the stock selected is in the negative territory.

So what say you? Don't you think that you must withdraw you statement that "whenever si-tipu-roti-canai start to "punt" a counter with wonderful cerita, making formula here and there, that counter is sure to drop."

Table 1
Reference date 21/01/2013 13/08/2013
Stock Name Ref Price Price now Div rec Change %change
Kfima 2.02 2.11 0.080 0.170 8.4%
Pintaras 3.12 6.44 0.100 3.420 109.6%
ECS 1.06 1.17 0.025 0.135 12.7%
Plenitude 1.85 2.28 0.050 0.480 25.9%
Jobstreest 2.4 4.10 0.080 1.780 74.2%
Pantech 0.78 1.11 0.012 0.342 43.8%
SKPRes 0.34 0.34 0.000 0.000 0.0%
NTPM 0.47 0.58 0.015 0.125 26.5%
Kimlun 1.5 2.07 0.048 0.618 41.2%
Prestariang 1.21 2.13 0.055 0.975 80.6%
22.330 0.465 2.1%
Average return 42.3%

KLCI 1637 1795 158.0 9.7%


Table 2
New 13/08/2013
Pintaras 4.99 6.44 0.000 1.450 29.1%
Kfima 2.060 2.110 0.000 0.050 2.4%
MFCB 1.700 1.870 0.000 0.170 10.0%
Haio 2.670 2.790 0.000 0.120 4.5%
Fibon 0.330 0.395 0.000 0.065 19.7%
CBIP 2.830 2.910 0.000 0.080 2.8%


Average 11.4%

Posted by inwest88 > 2013-08-13 21:02 | Report Abuse

Fantastic returns from the stocks selected.

Posted by houseofordos > 2013-08-13 21:09 | Report Abuse

KC I ve been following your posts since Mar this year.z.. if I had not tried to time the market... I would be enjoying these kind of returns today... sigh... really lesson learnt...

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-08-20 13:54 | Report Abuse

Let us learn from this "Guru" here'

Posted by iafx > Aug 20, 2013 12:35 PM | Report Abuse

"如果股市极端疯狂，给出高的离谱的价格，你还坚守长期投资不出售， 冷眼认为你就不是做股票投资的料子."

离谱的价格. COULD YOU TEACH US WHAT IS 离谱的价格? WHAT KIND OF METRICS DO YOU USE TO JUDGE THAT? WHAT VALUATION METHODS DO YOU USE TO DETERMINE THAT THE PRICE IS 离谱的价格. WHAT COMPARATIVE VALUATIONS DO YOU SUE, WHICH COMPANIES YOU USER TO COMPARE AND WHAT METRICS?

if u would have acted correctly after the first comment above; rather than psycho by long "beautiful" cerita, excited by "massage" numbers, CONGRATULATE to u!! now u can sit back relax and slowly buy back at low price if u will, or use the good $$$ to sapu even better counters :D :D :D

YOUR FIRST COMMENTS 6 MONTHS AGO WAS PINTARAS TOO EXPENSIVE AT RM2.70 AND YOU ADVISE EVERYONE TO SELL. WHY YOU "PHYCHO" AH> SOLD TOO EARLY AT RM2.70? "MASSAGE NUMBERS", WHO MASAGE? WHICH NUMBER? SAPU WHICH COUNTERS? PLEASE ALSO TELL US WHICH AND WHY SAPU? I MEAN HOW TO YOU JUDGE WHICH TO SAPU.

HahhahaHahaahahhahaaaaa.... argued with ghost story? HAhahahHAHAHAhaa..

WHY SO HAPPY AH? HAVE YOU SWORN THAT YOU WERE NOT THE GHOST WHICH CHANGED THE WORD "REVENUE" TO "PROFIT" IN THE KFIMA THREAD? IF NOT, PLEASE SWEAR HERE.

Posted by riley022 > 2013-08-20 14:18 | Report Abuse

I notice only here some investment opportunity but seem quite have a risk.Well speaking of risk management in Finland country many investor are really managing through http://www.safehouse.fi/ and i notice in that country that managing the risk has a lot of benefits.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-11-20 11:40 | Report Abuse

I set up this thread 8 months ago with the intention of discussing with this iafx fellow about finance and investment. However this guy never have the guts to come here to have some intelligent discussions. Instead he went everywhere making a fool of himself. How time flies.

Later we used this thread as a discussion forum for some investment concepts, financial statement analysis etc. There were quite some good discussions here. Too bad it has been a long time nobody visits here already. Can I revive it for the benefits of most of us.

Ok now let's discuss about Graham net net valuation. Tan KW has posted a good article about it here:

http://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/kianweiaritcles/38350.jsp

I have tried to use this method to value PM Corp, a cash rich company with little significant business.

Somebody by the name iafx said I bias, dishonest, tipu etc. Why trying to do something like that is considered as such? Let us discuss. Here is my post:

Posted by kcchongnz > Nov 19, 2013 06:50 PM | Report Abuse X

This interim result confirms the profit of 22m from the sale of property mentioned by calvin earlier on. However, the performance of the chocolate business remains illusive. Without this one off gain from the disposal of property, there will be no profit from the ordinary business. When is its chocolate business going to show some good results?

However, from this interim result, it reinforces my commitment in investing in this stock. This is due to further strengthening of its balance sheet. The Graham net net valuation (as below) shows that its intrinsic value is about 30 sen per share, up from my 24 sen previously. This is due to the realization of its gain in the sale of the property. If what calvin said about its other undervalued assets is true, further unlocking of the value of the assets of PMCorp will strength its case more as a good investment.

PMCorp 30/9/13 BS Amount Weight Net-net
Cash and equivalent 139616 100% 139616
Investments 82275 100% 82275
Receivables 21150 75% 15863
Inventories 16663 50% 8332
PPE 31472 0% 0
Goodwill 63190 0% 0
Other assets 1451 0% 0
Total assets 355817 x 246085
Less totalliabilities -18695 100% -18695
Equity 337122 x 227390

Number of shares 773356 x 773356
NAB 0.480 x 0.294
NTA 0.354 x 0.294

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-11-20 12:45 | Report Abuse

This guy made some comments here and said I am dishonest and tipu for posting the above. And then he came with the following post. I was talking about an asset based valuation of Graham net net and he came with this thingy here about an investment strategy.

Totally "cow head not fitting the horse mouth"!

Please clarify if you know what is a asset based valuation liike Graham net net and a multi facet investment strategy, like the 5 yardsticks of Cold Eye.

By the way, please do not degrade a master like Cold Eye with your 5 chopsticks.


Posted by iafx > Nov 20, 2013 11:57 AM | Report Abuse

don't talk only, use the *famous 5 chop (or yard?) sticks or FCF to scrutinize this counter, download the latest qtr report, see how cash is generated, see page 8 performance review. see for yourself if there is BIAS and DISHONEST.

note this counter is related to troubled pmind, too. this is not a buy/sell call, pmcorp price still green as v speak, this is merely sharing a neutral view, yr $ yr choice!!

Posted by AyamTua > 2013-11-20 12:49 | Report Abuse

kcchongnz is the most undisputed reputable pro here in fundamental stock picking he even spent time consistenly making good posts for all to read.. among few of his analysis covers the following good fundamental stocks

1. Hexza (Chemical)
2. Homeritz (Furniture)
3. PMCorp (Chocolate)

all are sound, investment grade fundamentals counters. I invested in these I can sleep soundly.

Posted by inwest88 > 2013-11-20 12:52 | Report Abuse

# Ayam Tua - you missed many others picked by him - Pintaras, Datasonic, Fibon etc. All prices went up sharply. You can his from his stock challenge block !

Posted by inwest88 > 2013-11-20 12:56 | Report Abuse

# Ayam Tua - just see for yourself :-

http://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/stock_pick_challenge_2013_2h/blidx.jsp