Posted by Jefftan123 > 2024-01-18 13:48 | Report Abuse

Japan’s descent into stagnation is an infamous economic tale known around the world. But at its start, in the early 1990s, it wasn’t abundantly clear what was happening to what was then the world’s No. 2 economy. Much to the frustration of Japan’s Ministry of Finance, there was a coterie of keen financial analysts who warned that the country’s debt problem was a whole lot worse than advertised, and that economic growth wasn’t going to magically make it go away.

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66 comment(s). Last comment by Jefftan123 2024-01-20 22:50

qqq47660

9,052 posts

Posted by qqq47660 > 2024-01-19 10:42 | Report Abuse

China got high inflation meh? China got rising interest rates meh? So what is the problem?

qqq47660

9,052 posts

Posted by qqq47660 > 2024-01-19 10:43 | Report Abuse

China will be ok because it is a country of geniuses and they are united and patriotic

Jefftan123

129 posts

Posted by Jefftan123 > 2024-01-19 10:47 | Report Abuse

The research also determined that the fiscal wherewithal of local authorities to service their debt had deteriorated by 2020. The conclusion: “It’s clear that local governments are compelled to incur new debts to repay existing ones, which is unsustainable.” Given how growth momentum has deteriorated in recent years, the debt-servicing ability is likely “even lower now,” according to Li.

qqq47660

9,052 posts

Posted by qqq47660 > 2024-01-19 10:47 | Report Abuse

Once unity is lost and u have left wing China , right wing China, every thing will be lost ..and that is exactly what America want China to do. What America want is for China to be poor like 1980 and happy to produce cheap shoes for America and nothing else

qqq47660

9,052 posts

Posted by qqq47660 > 2024-01-19 10:50 | Report Abuse

The debts will be row over to eternity and written off eventually....so what is the problem?

IDQWE001

2,992 posts

Posted by IDQWE001 > 2024-01-19 10:51 | Report Abuse

China not following Japan, it is following North Korea.😀😀

IDQWE001

2,992 posts

Posted by IDQWE001 > 2024-01-19 10:53 | Report Abuse

China’s total debt rises to over 300 per cent of GDP as Beijing loosens borrowing curbs to boost growth
-The figure has risen to over US$40 trillion, some 15 per cent of overall global debt, according to data released by the Institute of International Finance
-China has eased its deleveraging campaign in a bid to aid the slowing economy amid the trade war with the United States

qqq47660

9,052 posts

Posted by qqq47660 > 2024-01-19 10:57 | Report Abuse

China got inflation meh? Got rising interest rates meh?

qqq47660

9,052 posts

Posted by qqq47660 > 2024-01-19 10:58 | Report Abuse

As long as China got no inflation got no rising interest rates, the party is happy to built more infrastructure for the people.

qqq47660

9,052 posts

Posted by qqq47660 > 2024-01-19 11:00 | Report Abuse

In a socialist country, building infrastructure is for the people not to make capitalist rich.

qqq47660

9,052 posts

Posted by qqq47660 > 2024-01-19 11:02 | Report Abuse

China is a very competitive place with over capacity in every thing. There is no way for inflation to take hold. That is good for the poor

qqq47660

9,052 posts

Posted by qqq47660 > 2024-01-19 11:13 | Report Abuse

China is developing country with Gdp per capita of only 13000 SD, same as Malaysia but infrastructure far advanced than any thing in western countries.. China does not stop here and will go far ahead.

qqq47660

9,052 posts

Posted by qqq47660 > 2024-01-19 11:27 | Report Abuse

The level of infrastructure in China already far exceeds that in the west and China found money to spend 1 trillion USD overseas in bri project's

qqq47660

9,052 posts

Posted by qqq47660 > 2024-01-19 11:27 | Report Abuse

All that from a developing country

qqq47660

9,052 posts

Posted by qqq47660 > 2024-01-19 11:42 | Report Abuse

HK terrorists are just terrorists they cannot even manage their own lives let alone manage a country

Junichiro

2,063 posts

Posted by Junichiro > 2024-01-19 11:46 | Report Abuse

The above topic has already been answered in Quora in better detail. "We will find that China's government debt only accounts for 21% of GDP, which is very healthy. This means that the Chinese government can repay these debts at any time without even affecting their foreign exchange reserves and gold reserves. The Japanese government's debt is as high as 220% of GDP. Does this mean that the Japanese government is about to go bankrupt?"

Junichiro

2,063 posts

Posted by Junichiro > 2024-01-19 11:53 | Report Abuse

The above ratio is government debt to GDP based on World Bank figures. Read it in Quora instead of sensational headlines from western media.

HoLeeMan

151 posts

Posted by HoLeeMan > 2024-01-19 11:54 | Report Abuse

Countries do not cancel national debts denominated in local currency. It is not possible just because it is run by CCP. Cancelling debts will send shockwaves to a list of creditors. They include banks, investment funds, national savings and ordinary citizens. It will cause panic, bank runs, social unrests and political upheaval. A public uprising and turmoil which the CCP will be unable to control. The spillover of debt cancellations will rapidly infect the secondary financial sectors like properties, mortgages, Peers to Peers Lendinds etc. It will spin like a hurricane beyond control.

For every RMB debt, there is a RMB creditor waiting to be paid back. Debt is still a debt. And that 4 letter word needs to be repaid. It doesn't matter where it is or which country you are. In China, Brazil or Argentina , debt is still a debt.
You can also ask Anwar to cancell the RM1.5 Trillion nation debt tomorrow. Just wait to see what will happen to your KLSE shares prices you owned on Monday.

Cheers

Junichiro

2,063 posts

Posted by Junichiro > 2024-01-19 12:05 | Report Abuse

government debt is domestic debt. The total External Debt of its government and enterprises only accounts for 13.6% of GDP .

qqq47660

9,052 posts

Posted by qqq47660 > 2024-01-19 12:08 | Report Abuse

If the CCP want to pump in money from Beijing to chunking, u can stop the CCP meh?
If the CCP want to cancel debts from chunking to Beijing, u can stop Beijing meh?

qqq47660

9,052 posts

Posted by qqq47660 > 2024-01-19 12:17 | Report Abuse

government debt is domestic debt. The total External Debt of its government and enterprises only accounts for 13.6% of GDP
++++


And that is the real story that matters

Jefftan123

129 posts

Posted by Jefftan123 > 2024-01-19 12:22 | Report Abuse

China's Long-term Economic Outlook Weakens
Bloomberg Economics sees GDP growth slowing more than previously thought

In much the same way, Japan’s economic growth by the 1990s was insufficient to simply pay off the mountain of debt created during the bubble years, based on real-estate collateral valued at entirely unrealistic prices. Tokyo’s response was to guide banks into offering companies forbearance, and avoiding US-style bankruptcies with all the social and labor carnage they entail.

qqq47660

9,052 posts

Posted by qqq47660 > 2024-01-19 12:26 | Report Abuse

malaysia is not China...Malaysia is not able to build HSR without incurring foreign currency debts

qqq47660

9,052 posts

Posted by qqq47660 > 2024-01-19 12:29 | Report Abuse

japan? Japan is a different set of problems. Japan is not able to say no to Washington and commit harakiri with the Plaza accord and dismantling of its own chip industry.

and how big is domestic economy of japan any way? can have China dual circulation strategy?

qqq47660

9,052 posts

Posted by qqq47660 > 2024-01-19 12:33 | Report Abuse

japan? Japan introduced democracy in the 1990s and after that, Japan has no more unity to do any thing useful.

qqq47660

9,052 posts

Posted by qqq47660 > 2024-01-19 12:51 | Report Abuse

If the CCP want to pump in money from Beijing to chunking, u can stop the CCP meh?
If the CCP want to cancel debts from chunking to Beijing, u can stop Beijing meh?


city debts of China are very solvable.

qqq47660

9,052 posts

Posted by qqq47660 > 2024-01-19 12:56 | Report Abuse

some more, property taxes in China are very low, and property taxes in America are very high.
If they want to increase city revenue, plenty of tools they can use to increase revenue.

qqq47660

9,052 posts

Posted by qqq47660 > 2024-01-19 12:58 | Report Abuse

but China is a socialist country . Their decisions are always based on the collective good and helping the poor.

qqq47660

9,052 posts

Posted by qqq47660 > 2024-01-19 12:59 | Report Abuse

not like america which only want to keep wall street happy and the elites happy.

Jefftan123

129 posts

Posted by Jefftan123 > 2024-01-19 13:44 | Report Abuse

Another piece of Japan’s response was to keep lowering interest rates to encourage new borrowing to fund new investments. The trouble with that was the appetite to extend or take on new credit was limited. Low rates came to be seen as a symptom of Japan’s diminished potential.

qqq47660

9,052 posts

Posted by qqq47660 > 2024-01-19 13:59 | Report Abuse

Jeff. Why are u looking for financial engineering ? China is advancing not by financial engineering but by upgrading science and technology and Xi jinping make in China 2025. .... America is running scared but nothing America can do.

qqq47660

9,052 posts

Posted by qqq47660 > 2024-01-19 14:54 | Report Abuse

EV is a good example. China will disrupt existing industries. if America don't want to buy, China and rest of the world is a big enough market. And China will continue to produce stuffs that solve people's real problems at an affordable price

Jefftan123

129 posts

Posted by Jefftan123 > 2024-01-19 16:10 | Report Abuse

It’s no coincidence that these days China’s interest rates are also heading south. This newsletter noted last year how lower rates on savings accounts risked undermining confidence among Chinese households. Late last month, China’s big state banks cut those rates further.

qqq47660

9,052 posts

Posted by qqq47660 > 2024-01-19 16:36 | Report Abuse

Interest rate go south is ok the poor people will not complain if interest rates go south

qqq47660

9,052 posts

Posted by qqq47660 > 2024-01-19 16:37 | Report Abuse

America has lost
Just wait for 2030 I think by then there will be revolution in America

qqq47660

9,052 posts

Posted by qqq47660 > 2024-01-19 16:38 | Report Abuse

Biden try to copy China in having industrial policy. But America will fail

qqq47660

9,052 posts

Posted by qqq47660 > 2024-01-19 16:40 | Report Abuse

Trump will win and be president. And nobody can predict what the madman will do.

qqq47660

9,052 posts

Posted by qqq47660 > 2024-01-19 16:47 | Report Abuse

China will continue to produce stuffs that benefit the world and increasing with own brands and own technology.. that is how China escapes from the middle income trap

Malaysia can do the same?

qqq47660

9,052 posts

Posted by qqq47660 > 2024-01-19 16:52 | Report Abuse

The age of liberal is over. The age of China has just begun

Posted by eastern_joy > 2024-01-19 16:59 | Report Abuse

and Malaysia brain migrations continue...

qqq47660

9,052 posts

Posted by qqq47660 > 2024-01-19 17:16 | Report Abuse

China is so far ahead of Anglo Saxons in infrastructure it is scary.

qqq47660

9,052 posts

Posted by qqq47660 > 2024-01-19 17:22 | Report Abuse

Malaysia brain migrations continue...
++++



My children says half their schools mates are in Singapore

Jefftan123

129 posts

Posted by Jefftan123 > 2024-01-19 17:25 | Report Abuse

China’s benchmark 10-year government bond yields this week approached the modern record low of under 2.5%—hit during the initial Covid-19 crisis. In Japan’s case, 10-year yields sank through 2.5% in 1997 and never looked back.

qqq47660

9,052 posts

Posted by qqq47660 > 2024-01-19 17:47 | Report Abuse

Interest rate go south is ok the poor people will not complain if interest rates go south


why u want interest rates to go north when there is no inflation in China?

Jefftan123

129 posts

Posted by Jefftan123 > 2024-01-19 20:12 | Report Abuse

Li argues that there’s a three-part solution for China’s local debtload, which his analysis showed amounted to 88% of gross domestic product as of 2020. That’s notably larger than previous estimates by the International Monetary Fund. (It would have been all the bigger in Li’s worst-case estimate of $14 trillion worth of debt.)

qqq47660

9,052 posts

Posted by qqq47660 > 2024-01-19 20:25 | Report Abuse

China debts. City debts............... people can see where the money go to, people can touch it, benefit from it.

America debts...............GDP 10 trillion usd at 2000 to 24 trillion now, US Federal debts at 34 trillion usd now, not even counting city debts....where did the money go? most of it disappeared into wars of all sorts. people benefit from any of that?

Jefftan123

129 posts

Posted by Jefftan123 > 2024-01-20 08:28 | Report Abuse

First would be to have the central government simply take over part of the local authorities’ obligations. There have been signs in recent months that President Xi Jinping’s team is indeed thinking along these lines, though policymakers in Beijing have long sought to maintain the central government’s relatively low debt-to-GDP ratio.

qqq47660

9,052 posts

Posted by qqq47660 > 2024-01-20 11:25 | Report Abuse

There are the short termers and virtual economy

There are the long termers and the CCP planners

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRWzIVSbAAM

Jefftan123

129 posts

Posted by Jefftan123 > 2024-01-20 22:50 | Report Abuse

Li’s second step is to extend the duration of debt, something that is under way through a variety of swap programs—some at the local level and some involving the central bank.

The third component, however, would require a significant ideological shift. That would involve selling off state assets. In Japan, that was one component of the eventual solution to its own bad-debt mountain under Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi, in the years before the global financial crisis. (A policy option Tokyo is looking at again.)

But far from embracing privatization, Xi’s regime has tilted instead toward elevating the role of the state. It seems hard to envision a dose of 1980s Thatcherism to reduce debt and energize the private sector.

Which all magnifies the risk of a dynamic in China’s financial system that limits the economy’s potential in coming years.

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