Posted by puakeng > 2013-08-11 10:48 | Report Abuse

Dear : kcchongnz.

How do you identify under-valued stocks yet potential stocks?

What FA criteria and company prospects?

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-08-11 10:51 | Report Abuse

puakeng, if you are interested in my thoughts, go to read what I wrote at the top of the following threads.

http://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/forum/900255072.jsp

http://klse.i3investor.com/servlets/forum/900285510.jsp

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-08-11 10:54 | Report Abuse

Me sensitive? I am just responding to your following comments.

Posted by Trillion > Aug 9, 2013 12:05 PM | Report Abuse
Hahaha Grandma, you will learn these guys are shiok sendiri team. Information provided no guarantee of accuracy. .......lol they also cannot take question one ......leave critism.......

Posted by Trillion > Aug 9, 2013 11:22 PM | Report Abuse
Someone alredi pointed out the FA mistake.....OTB, read lah......hahahahaha. Enjoy yourself OTB making everyone here especially Inwest88 and Tonylim.

Hahaha
What is Operating income/profit? Net income is after all taxes and OP is before....so how lah?

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-08-11 10:56 | Report Abuse

Thanks TanKW. Yeah that one I put in a lot of effort to share with others too.

Posted by inwest88 > 2013-08-11 11:02 | Report Abuse

KW, since you are going to delete FTCB's stock picks tomorrow, may I suggest you invite Trillion to gave a few stock recommendations as he seems to know the financials very well.

Posted by shirley1 > 2013-08-11 12:31 | Report Abuse

am not sure, that why i ask, if see the financial notes see that they include.. but for example notice sometime some company they never do revaluation on the assets..

Posted by shirley1 > 2013-08-11 12:41 | Report Abuse

example huh.. CBI 2012 annual report.. note 5, 6, 7

Posted by shirley1 > 2013-08-11 13:19 | Report Abuse

ok.. thanks :)

Posted by Tiago Gt > 2013-08-11 13:21 | Report Abuse

Kcchong.....can u help me about malton and tgoff....which one better....?

Posted by shirley1 > 2013-08-11 13:23 | Report Abuse

tankw.. thanks :)

Posted by Grandma > 2013-08-11 13:30 | Report Abuse

Grandma only ask a simple question and got more answers. Young man Trillion, Grandma use the % by sector as a guide too. Your argument is valid. This is why when you read some financial sites, their calculation goes haywire affected by the incidentals. And Tan KW,a Grandma like your Nasi Lemak example.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-08-11 13:31 | Report Abuse

What the hack is your financial income? Show me a company's financial statement with "financial income" as jv and associates. I already asked you to show me your "financial income" from a financial statement to prove that you are right, have you? Tell you what, there is no such thing as financial income as a line in income statement. There is this "finance income" or "finance expense", which is interest income or interest expense. Not associates or jv.

Why is income from associates and jv not repeatable? In TanKW's lemang business, why only his lemang business income is repeatable, and why not his investment income from nasi lemak? For me, forex gain/loss is not repeatable. Gain/loss of sale of a property not related to its ordinary business is not repeatable etc, not income from a legitimate associates or jv.

Me "ridicule cynically"? Who tried to pick on who first?

I "didn't even understand financial income and expense when you wrote on JV and associate.....and calculated the % of Net income and OP". I really wonder who didn't understand.

Well I guess we have to leave it to a third party who knows better to judge.

Posted by Trillion > 2013-08-11 13:38 | Report Abuse

Firstly search wiki first....otherwise ppl claim I put u down again. If you cannot find let me know. I will show you. And when I do, the term "financial income" I expect an apology because you wanted specific but did not do your homework!!!

I state again what I wrote earlier last para

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Blog: OTB, Fat Cat, kcchong portfolio return by kcchongnz
Aug 11, 2013 09:51 AM | Report Abuse

Kcchong, is this the lowest you want to take a pot shot ......a term finance vs financial income

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After EBIT, there are many other stuff other than your "financial income". Anyway, I thought it is "Finance income" which is interest from FD etc, not "financial income" as stated by you. Other stuff includes forex gain, gain/loss from associates, jv etc which their accounts have not been consolidated, gain/loss from sale of PPE, sale of land etc.
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It is the same thing.....one to describe (ie finance income) and the other is is a accounting term in PnL. Anymore pot shot? The rest is already in the link I put there

Posted by Trillion > 2013-08-11 13:45 | Report Abuse

KCchong, ur statement below as what you have written.....again I repeat financial income is a category in accounting since you have never heard of it but have been looking at PnL. I would advice you check before dwelling too deep on a statement. Finance and financial income as what I have explain. I will use impartial known website to argue. Fair!?



Blog: OTB, Fat Cat, kcchong portfolio return by kcchongnz
Aug 11, 2013 01:31 PM | Report Abuse

What the hack is your financial income? Show me a company's financial statement with "financial income" as jv and associates. I already asked you to show me your "financial income" from a financial statement to prove that you are right, have you? Tell you what, there is no such thing as financial income as a line in income statement. There is this "finance income" or "finance expense", which is interest income or interest expense. Not associates or jv.

Why is income from associates and jv not repeatable? In TanKW's lemang business, why only his lemang business income is repeatable, and why not his investment income from nasi lemak? For me, forex gain/loss is not repeatable. Gain/loss of sale of a property not related to its ordinary business is not repeatable etc, not income from a legitimate associates or jv.

Me "ridicule cynically"? Who tried to pick on who first?

I "didn't even understand financial income and expense when you wrote on JV and associate.....and calculated the % of Net income and OP". I really wonder who didn't understand.

Well I guess we have to leave it to a third party who knows better to judge.

Posted by houseofordos > 2013-08-11 15:27 | Report Abuse

Trillion, I went to this website
http://www.astrazeneca-annualreports.com/2007/financial_statements/notes_to_the_financial_accounts_group/note3.asp you posted and the finance income stated there is no mention of JV/associate under finance income

I googled financial income and most websites (US based ones) stated that financial income is basically EBT (Earnings before taxes).

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=financial%20income&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CC4QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.businessdictionary.com%2Fdefinition%2Ffinancial-income.html&ei=PzQHUsjjB4iSrgfRhYCAAQ&usg=AFQjCNHmyL_cMI20mdctrz-jMkUgJWFLEw

Regardless, I think this is just a term. I wouldnt want to go too deep. But looking at CBIP income statement, lets look at EBT breakdown in terms of % o Associate/Jv profit contribution against the total EBT
2012 2011 2010 2009 2008
Associate/JV proft 9.52% 31.75% 19.98% -11.11% 12.52%
Other income 6.58% 6.81% 7.81% 3.90% 6.90%
Finance cost -0.88% -2.16% -7.09% -12.00% -9.09%
EBIT 84.77% 63.60% 79.30% 119.21% 89.67%
EBT 100.00% 100.00% 100.00% 100.00% 100.00%

Based on above, we can see that the contributions from the Associates/JV are quite lumpy going up to 32% contribution in 2011 and even -11% in 2009. However, I hardly see this as one-off as the subsidiaries are involved in palm oil activities in which CBIP used to derive substantial revenue prior to 2012. Hence I believe that management is competent enough to know whether or not these associates are performing and aware about their profitability. I would agree with you that since it is not that transparent on how this income is derived, it would be hard to measure the effiency etc or predict future earnings from these associates. Even then, using ratios such as EBIT/EV and ROIC which exclude these items still show this stock as a value buy.. so I am not too concerned.. http://klse.i3investor.com/blogs/stock_pick_challenge_2013_2h/34444.jsp

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-08-11 15:46 | Report Abuse

Posted by Trillion > Aug 11, 2013 01:38 PM | Report Abuse
Firstly search wiki first....otherwise ppl claim I put u down again. If you cannot find let me know. I will show you. And when I do, the term "financial income" I expect an apology because you wanted specific but did not do your homework!!!
I state again what I wrote earlier last para

Expect an apology? I would if I am proven wrong. No problem. But have you showed me any income statement with a line showing "financial income" which you take to mean to include associates, jv etc?

What you shown in your link is "finance income" (not financial income) which is like what I have said stuff like interest income, Fixed deposit, interest rate swap etc.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-08-11 15:58 | Report Abuse

There are a number of profit margin commonly talked about; gross margin, operating margin (same as ebit), and net profit margin. The margins are worked out based on gross margin=gross profit/revenue, operating margin=operating profit/revenue, and net profit margin=net profit/revenue. I like to use another profit margin, NOPAT, that is net operating profit after tax, which I always use to calculate return of invested capital (ROIC). I do know the revenue of associates and jv are not included in the top line. Those are all according to convention.

So when I compute my return of equity (ROE), I use net profit/equity and ROIC=NOPAT/Invested capital. They are all appropriately used for each equation. do you see anything wrong with these?

Tell me how you get your net profit margin for CBIP and what is it?

Posted by houseofordos > 2013-08-11 16:45 | Report Abuse

Trillion the easier link that you posted
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earnings_before_interest_and_taxes

could be just a generic financial statement that doesnt include the associate/JV income...there is no mention of associate/JV income included in financial income.. Financial income could very well just mean net interest income...

It doesnt matter to me whether the profit from associate is considered financial income or not. It seems like the argument arises because of the location it is sitting in the financial statement...
The argument should be whether this income should be excluded in the valuation or not as some say its recurring and some say it isnt. I believe this is subjective and depend also on the % of contribution to overall EBT. Of course if you want to be more conservative, it may be excluded, there is no right and wrong in valuation.

Posted by houseofordos > 2013-08-11 16:46 | Report Abuse

Financial income could very well just mean net interest income...

My mistake... interest expense is allocated further down... anyway.. the rest of my points remain the same

Posted by houseofordos > 2013-08-11 16:51 | Report Abuse

Trillion after all this accounting discussion, can you share your valuation analysis on CBIP ? I am interested to know.. Thanks !

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-08-11 17:56 | Report Abuse

FIRST YOU POSTED THAT WE "SHIOK SENDIRI" AND OTHER THINGS HERE:

Posted by Trillion > Aug 9, 2013 12:05 PM | Report Abuse
Hahaha Grandma, you will learn these guys are shiok sendiri team. Information provided no guarantee of accuracy. .......lol they also cannot take question one ......leave critism.......

Posted by Trillion > Aug 9, 2013 11:22 PM | Report Abuse
Someone alredi pointed out the FA mistake.....OTB, read lah......hahahahaha. Enjoy yourself OTB making everyone here especially Inwest88 and Tonylim.

Hahaha
What is Operating income/profit? Net income is after all taxes and OP is before....so how lah?


THEN YOU SAID THIS:

Posted by Trillion > Aug 10, 2013 10:39 PM | Report Abuse
I am just an avid reader here......I do appreciate Kcchong and OTB rational argument, that's why I bother giving my opinion.....


LATER YOU SOME MORE WANT AN APOLOGY FROM ME.

Posted by Trillion > Aug 11, 2013 01:38 PM | Report Abuse
Firstly search wiki first....otherwise ppl claim I put u down again. If you cannot find let me know. I will show you. And when I do, the term "financial income" I expect an apology because you wanted specific but did not do your homework!!!

WHAT IS YOUR ACTUAL MOTIVE?

NOW YOU TALK ABOUT WIKI. YEAH THAT STATEMENT IN THE LINK YOU SHOWED DOES SHOW "FINANCIAL INCOME" WHICH SHOWS THAT I COULD BE WRONG FOR SAYING THAT SHOULD NOT BE "FINANCIAL INCOME", BUT "FINANCE INCOME". AM I REALLY WRONG?

FIRST OF ALL YOU MUST KNOW THAT IF YOU GO AND DO A POSTGRADUATE COURSE AND YOU HAVE TO DO SOME LITERATURE REVIEWS. YOU GO AND CITE WIKPEDIA ON SOME DEFINITION AND STATEMENTS. DO YOU KNOW THAT YOUR ASSIGNMENT WILL BE GIVEN A "FAIL"? SERIOUS! IS WIKI THE AUTHORITY IN THIS STUFF? I SUGGEST YOU GO TO INTERNATIONAL ACCOUNTING STANDARD BOARD AND SEE THEIR FORMAT OF INCOME STATEMENT. FOR EASY REFERENCE, YOU CAN COPY AND PASTE THE FOLLOWING LINK.

http://www.ifrs.org/Current-Projects/IASB-Projects/Financial-Statement-Presentation/Phase-B-OCI/Documents/OCIFAQ.pdf

THE ABOVE LINK CLEARLY SPELT OUT HOW A STANDARD INCOME STATEMENT LOOKS LIKE. VERY COMPREHENSIVE.

BTW, WHAT IS YOUR MOTIVE IN THE FIRST PLACE WHEN YOU STARTED COMMENTING THAT WE "SHIOK SENDIRI"?

Posted by Trillion > 2013-08-11 18:11 | Report Abuse

I am done with KCchong........he does not know when to quit! If you are wrong , you are wrong. It's not a game to see who is right anyway. Accurate means money, that all.

Posted by tonylim > 2013-08-11 18:31 | Report Abuse

I see, the 4 pillars of investments is coined by an author.
Darn I thought its an accounting convention or standards.

Bloody confusing

Posted by Trillion > 2013-08-11 18:33 | Report Abuse

Yeap it for the smart guys.....doesn't include you....!

Posted by Trillion > 2013-08-11 18:34 | Report Abuse

Looks like someone could not even read properly....leave alone investing.....kakaka

Posted by tonylim > 2013-08-11 18:38 | Report Abuse

hahaha, small guy. Syiok sendiri

Posted by Trillion > Aug 11, 2013 06:33 PM | Report Abuse

Yeap it for the smart guys.....doesn't include you....!

Posted by kcchongnz > 2013-08-11 18:39 | Report Abuse

Posted by Trillion > Aug 11, 2013 06:11 PM | Report Abuse
I am done with KCchong........he does not know when to quit! If you are wrong , you are wrong. It's not a game to see who is right anyway. Accurate means money, that all.

Well both of us have presented our case. Who is right or wrong is not up to you to claim. It has to be from a knowledgeable third party. Agreed?

Btw, you are still welcome to commend on any of my post, if you wish of course.

Posted by tonylim > 2013-08-11 18:39 | Report Abuse

An avid reader... kekekeke

create a new nick to come in here to show you are smart. This trillion must be the 6th nick in i3. I am still counting.

Posted by tonylim > 2013-08-11 18:41 | Report Abuse

Why not submit your definition of financial income to wikipaedia.
Bet you, my son, they might accept your syiok sendiri definition.

But for IAS accounting bodies, no luck.

Enough of syiok sendiri

Posted by Trillion > 2013-08-11 18:42 | Report Abuse

Well knowledgeable 3rd party definitely cannot be mr domino here.....he will be busy delivering to wrong address because cannot read......

Posted by Trillion > 2013-08-11 18:44 | Report Abuse

Hahaha...as I said, u have reading deficiency......ask KCchong.....it's alredi in wiki.....now I understand when ppl say there is no medicine to cure dumb....I wonder if its also passed down.....

Posted by Trillion > 2013-08-11 18:47 | Report Abuse

But then there is also dumb and dumber.....gosh which generation are u Tonylim.....if you are 6 th generation, that iq must be negative....lol

Posted by tonylim > 2013-08-11 18:49 | Report Abuse

Btw a couple of spelling mistakes in some of the postings.

criticism is one of them. google but google the right dictionary OK?

Posted by Trillion > 2013-08-11 18:51 | Report Abuse

Hahaha from someone who can't read......did u steal that too like how you take fr the forumer.s....

Posted by tonylim > 2013-08-11 18:52 | Report Abuse

You have a liking to create 5 alphabet nicks ending with Ooooo

Are you starting 6 alpabet nicks also starting with Oooooo and beginning with Domino?

OOooooooo OOOoooooooo LOL

Posted by Trillion > 2013-08-11 18:55 | Report Abuse

Once you can read, your name nic suggestion may increase to more than mono alphabet.....but than again negative iq....can or not improve?

Posted by Trillion > 2013-08-11 18:59 | Report Abuse

Oh no....run away again mr domino?

Posted by tonylim > 2013-08-11 18:59 | Report Abuse

This is my last post.

If you can convince me why you create a new nick just to engage OTB Kcchong iro CBIP thread, I will further engage with you.

Dont be an avid reader and not contribute and when somebody dont write a little here and there, dont mock them for not contributing. You know why?
Because when forummers recommend stocks you say people marketing, sifus etc .. when forummers becomes "avid reader" like you, you also mock them.
Make up your mind.

You have a propensity to argue till the cow come home. Why? W t f. I know who you are. Many goood forummers left this place because of people like you.

Pls la your way of making making money in bursa is not the only way. There are many more ways other than pillars or quadrants you want to syiok sendiri in i3.

Hello common sense la.

Posted by Trillion > 2013-08-11 19:02 | Report Abuse

Aiyo....he can write...but when he does he gives a sermon.....don't ask me questions...I have share where necessary....where is your?.....ohhh I forgot...your sharing is asking question a nd take away only.......

Posted by Trillion > 2013-08-11 19:04 | Report Abuse

Ok running away again......bye mr domino......

Posted by Trillion > 2013-08-11 19:05 | Report Abuse

Hahaha he claims to know me.....hmmmm I too know him.....who doesn't know mr domino pls put up ur hand......

Posted by tonylim > 2013-08-11 19:08 | Report Abuse

Guys sorry to chip in here,
As least I got rid of another accounting or accountant fake here or my, financial or finance fake here.

Posted by Trillion > 2013-08-11 19:08 | Report Abuse

Hahaha u r talking abt yourself.....go scrammmmmm......lol

Posted by Trillion > 2013-08-11 19:09 | Report Abuse

Have a good dinner mr domino.....just don't choke ok since u r in a hurry......

Posted by Trillion > 2013-08-11 19:12 | Report Abuse

If you do choke....no one will notice ......just lift that finger and point to ur throat and they will think u want more food......enjoy..

Posted by inwest88 > 2013-08-11 20:59 | Report Abuse

About Trillion, he just came in 2 days ago and got his first report abuse after 11 postings. Now another one, I reckon one more abuse and admin will ban him for violating community standards.

Posted by Trillion > 2013-08-11 21:15 | Report Abuse

Continue to carry Inwest88. Hahahaha

Posted by Trillion > 2013-08-11 21:17 | Report Abuse

So we know who are the ones spoiling this forum.....the takers and the ampu.......if they ban its also fine with me......those who press the buttons anyways are the non contributor. Lol

Posted by inwest88 > 2013-08-11 22:01 | Report Abuse

KW, i am not sure of the criteria used for banning but i thinks it's applicable to those who use abusive words and foul language to provoke anger and hatred and also probably the trouble makers.

Posted by tonylim > 2013-08-11 22:17 | Report Abuse

BurppPp,
Guys, the word "recreating" appearing 2 or 3x in page 5 appear to mean "recurring" as in whether its one off extraordinary etc

Its either the fault of the writer (iq included) or auto correct software or cut and paste.