Posted by cheoky > 2019-07-17 22:06 | Report Abuse

betul juga. tak perasaan 100%.

holding from RM0.4 to RM1.2, great. but when holding from rm1.2 drop to rm0.6. and what if insas is that investor core holding?
psychologically, how would that investor felt and response?

dont tell me that investor remains unmoved emotionally lo.

Posted by cheoky > 2019-07-17 22:11 | Report Abuse

have kc knowledge and have icon wisdom. should get rich over the time.

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-17 22:30 | Report Abuse

kc.....want to buy shares like insas? I think 1000 of the 2000 shares in Bursa share the same characteristics...........dead shares.....no one interested.........................

Posted by enigmatic [Breaker of Speculative Investing] > 2019-07-17 22:54 | Report Abuse

For those who are lazy, here is the TLDR version:

Insas may not be a great company with good growth in earnings.

However, the asset value of the company has been increasing rapidly over the years as shown in Figure 3 below and it is way undervalued.

The assets are mostly marked-to-market in cash and investments. There also has not been cash burn in any of their business segment, etc.

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-17 23:03 | Report Abuse

kc...u should write some thing negative about a share...........so I can buy.................it works for me....5 out of 5..........

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-17 23:09 | Report Abuse

kc....retail not interested in Insas.....no action.....

Institutions not interested in the share...no quality, wrong sector, the best behind it already, no one trust them , it is piggy bank for the family to punt the market.


Do u really think Malaysians need some one in NZ to tell them what shares to buy?

Posted by Sslee > 2019-07-17 23:13 | Report Abuse

Hahahaha,
Qqq3 you forget you cut lose your Sendai?

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-17 23:40 | Report Abuse

ss, kc......both retail and institutions prefer to buy Beyond Meat than dead Insas....good reasons for it.....

Posted by siradrian > 2019-07-18 00:12 | Report Abuse

Hi KC, recent events on LONBISC reminded me of an article you issued in 2014. If only people had heeded your advice to abandon ship back then, many could have avoided "Infinity War" and unnecessary casualties today.

Your ingenuity has put a lot of substance in your articles and I dare say that newbies and veterans have benefited from your knowledge sharing. Thank you for that. Keep up the good work!

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-18 00:34 | Report Abuse

siradian....you dare to guarantee Insas will not be PN 17 company in 5 years time? But first, the company got to redeem the $ 130 million of RPS within 12 months.......

By the way.....did kc guarantee that Biscuit will be PN 17 company by 2019?

Posted by kcchongnz > 2019-07-18 06:17 | Report Abuse

Posted by siradrian > Jul 18, 2019 12:12 AM | Report Abuse
Hi KC, recent events on LONBISC reminded me of an article you issued in 2014. If only people had heeded your advice to abandon ship back then, many could have avoided "Infinity War" and unnecessary casualties today.
Your ingenuity has put a lot of substance in your articles and I dare say that newbies and veterans have benefited from your knowledge sharing. Thank you for that. Keep up the good work!

Thank you for your kind words.

Yes, I wrote a number of articles about London Biscuits 4-5 years ago, together with some other stocks like KNM, CSL, MPCorp, AsiaMeida, Smartrack etc which on average tanked by more than 80%, or even de-listed. Of course, not every stock I wrote fell to the same faith. GCB is one of them which sees its share price rises. But the hit list is more than 80%.

Not to forget I wrote so many articles about Jaks and Sendai when they were touted big time for everyone here to sailang and use margins when they were selling at RM1.80 and RM1.40 respectively.

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-18 06:57 | Report Abuse

Understanding Value Traps

If you believe a stock has a true ("intrinsic") value, you will try to buy it below that level (when it's "cheap"). So why sell if it gets even cheaper.

A stock that stays at a large discount to intrinsic value is a "value trap". It's an important issue for value investors and there are few methods to avoid value traps.

One way to avoid a value trap with a cheap stock (like Benjamin Graham liked) is to buy them with catalysts, i.e. new management or new plans to unlock that value through buybacks, dividends, or sale/merger.

The best way to avoid a value trap is to buy a growing business that increases value over time.

Posted by king36 > 2019-07-18 07:24 | Report Abuse

KC,
Thank you for your posting.
........ But that would be another part of the story which I wish to talk about it in my later articles on Insas if there is any interest on it.

Pls do post, I am interested.
Thank you again.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-18 07:36 | Report Abuse

Kc,

Raider says kc very good research by kc...never in my mind...insas share price performance has been consider reasonable good, despite so much criticism from i3 readers loh...!!
Raider has overlooked n did not cover this part bcos i m a margin of safety investor .

Benjamin Graham never advice us to avoid value trap, bcos it is a very lucrative investment preposition mah, thus he recommend diversifications portfolio and willing to invest a longer term of 3 to 5 yrs loh...!!

There is nothing wrong with value trap, if u chose safety as the 1st investment criteria loh...!!


Posted by 3iii > Jul 18, 2019 6:57 AM | Report Abuse

Understanding Value Traps

If you believe a stock has a true ("intrinsic") value, you will try to buy it below that level (when it's "cheap"). So why sell if it gets even cheaper.

A stock that stays at a large discount to intrinsic value is a "value trap". It's an important issue for value investors and there are few methods to avoid value traps.

One way to avoid a value trap with a cheap stock (like Benjamin Graham liked) is to buy them with catalysts, i.e. new management or new plans to unlock that value through buybacks, dividends, or sale/merger.

The best way to avoid a value trap is to buy a growing business that increases value over time.

Posted by Sslee > 2019-07-18 07:46 | Report Abuse

Hahahaha,
Qqq3 I can guarantee that you and ALP are crooks and with no integrity period. The more you wrote and argue the more you proof yourself to be a faked accountant. My blog is written as KCChong mentioned with hard fact and figure taken from Annual report and with link to the source:

Number of Share: 663,006,342 (EXCLUDING 30,327,291 TREASURY SHARE)
Dato’ Sri Thong and his brother Dato Thong direct and deemed interest: 32.98%
Number of Warrant B: 265,202,536 (Exercise price: RM 1.00. Expiry date: 25 FEB 2020)
Dato’ Sri Thong direct and deemed interest: 31.45%
Number of RPS: 132,610,268 (Expiry date: 25 FEB 2020)
Dato’ Sri Thong direct and deemed interest: 41.80%

Dato’ Sri Thong and his brother is holding 32.98% this is the reason Dato’ Sri Thong or Insas cannot buy back Insas share for it will trigger 33% conditional MGO. This problem will be solved come next AGM or latest by 25 FEB 2020. Dato Sri’ Thong and Insas will love to buy more Insas share. Mark my words.

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-18 07:51 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by BLee > 2019-07-18 07:52 | Report Abuse

I am interested also. Tqvm, kc

king36
KC,
Thank you for your posting.
........ But that would be another part of the story which I wish to talk about it in my later articles on Insas if there is any interest on it.

Pls do post, I am interested.
Thank you again.
18/07/2019 7:24 AM

Posted by BLee > 2019-07-18 07:57 | Report Abuse

My own piece of opinion, Insas Berhad has great potential energy hold by a very strong wall waiting to be broken. Once broken, avalanche..happy trading.

Posted by Airline Bobby > 2019-07-18 08:07 | Report Abuse

Qqq3 the venom. LOL. Where is spiderman to save us

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-18 08:09 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by Sslee > 2019-07-18 08:56 | Report Abuse

Dear 3iii,
Give you a thumb up for your thoughtful opinion. The very intention of my article blogs is that a lot of hard facts and figures can be found in the annual report and published document. Beside growth you need to study the balance sheet and also the Board helming the company. Tell me is JAKS a growth stocks or a trap?

Thank you

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-18 09:13 | Report Abuse

we even have a word for dead shares like Insas and Icap..........Its called holding company discounts. Insas is not the only one in Bursa with huge holding company discounts.............plenty of examples already.

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-18 10:00 | Report Abuse

Jaks is betting on major improvements to its fortune...............Insas betting on what??

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-18 10:15 | Report Abuse

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/v/valuetrap.asp

too many beginner investors waste their investing life being a value trap investor...........prime example, followers of KC Chong.


so tempting for beginners, too tempting for beginners....accountant dream stocks, .....looks good on paper with their metrics and quantitative numbers and formulas.........on their rear view drives.


but rarely delivers ....

U think Warren Buffet will be Warren Buffet if his stocks ( like Coca Cola ) did not grow and grow ? U think Warren Buffet grow rich by buying value traps meh?

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-18 10:20 | Report Abuse

In Wall Street, there are professional arbitragers who buy under valued stocks in hostile take overs , sack and burn .....


But that is Wall Street, this is Bursa.............

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-18 10:27 | Report Abuse

Raid, sack , burn for hard assets is so old school, so 20 century......

now, the world is flushed with liquidity looking for ideas, for growth, willing to pay ridiculous amounts of money for the next NEW Thing, for Industry 4.0, for internet 3.0, for the next disruptor.............who got time for hard assets?

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-18 11:10 | Report Abuse

Raid, sack , burn for hard assets is so old school, so 20 century......

now, the world is flushed with liquidity looking for ideas, for growth, willing to pay ridiculous amounts of money for the next NEW Thing, for Industry 4.0, for internet 3.0, for the next disruptor.............who got time for hard assets?

the world is looking for stocks with zero marginal costs......willing to pay huge premiums for stocks with zero marginal cost......

accountant dream stock so old fashion.....now people looking for Softbank dream stock.................

Posted by GrahamNewman > 2019-07-18 11:17 | Report Abuse

There's no right or wrong with INSAS, just people's preference. Sure 10 year CAGR 7.2% is commendable given FD 3%, but if you have alternative which you are very confident will beat this, why choose INSAS?

Why those who liked INSAS never act when GE-14 caused some of the great companies to tumble >70%? Here we have one great example, MYEG. Before and after GE-14, the business did not change much, but share price tumble >70%. Within a year, you can get >100% return.

Those who did act(boldly) in the GE-14 panic would not be talking about INSAS. It's a true blue Graham value stock, but you are relying on the management to realise the value for you(selling the liquid assets and distribute dividend), which is kind of a speculating/gambling.

Some might say:alright, after the 100% return, what's next? INSAS got 10 year record, 100% in 1 year then poof, no more target to shoot. But come to think of it, if i can get 100% in 1 year, why would i want 100% in 10 years? I think its a no brainer question.

Buffett used to practice deep value technique during his partnership, he succeeded. But few would pay attention what he did after buying these cigar butts. He bought his way into the chairman seat, and demanded the value be realised, such as Sanborn Map and Dempster. But we as minority shareholder who bought into these cigar butts can only wait for management to realise value for us.

And why are we comparing these subpar construction companies with INSAS? a look at the operating results of these companies and you know there is no moat.

Afterall, if you are satisfied with 7.2% long term return for 10 year, well, all i can say its good to have low expectation and deliberately be oblivious to other better opportunities.

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-18 12:43 | Report Abuse

retailers look for action....professionals look for contrarian play.....long term investors look for growth and superior quality.....


kc look for what? Look for Wall Street arbitragers to come rescue u?

how silly.

this is Bursa, not wall street.

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-18 12:44 | Report Abuse

City of London come and do arbitrage play on Icap....see what it got them into??

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-18 12:46 | Report Abuse

Icap loss a hundred million $ in Parkson.....

Posted by Sslee > 2019-07-18 13:10 | Report Abuse

Dear all,
On hindsight everyone had the foresight to say why not buying into quality/growth/chase high stock (PE 50 or 1000) and achieved a return of 100% within a year rather than holding to slow moving stock with fundamental and dividend. Had anyone tell you how they lost their life saving chasing hot stock. When bubble bust or when the tide goes out do you discover who has been swimming naked?

Thank you
P/S: Please tell Philip will he expect QL to give him 100% return within a year. Only qqq3 claims to achieve so by hoodwinked greater fool buying into his story and buy the share from his hand.

Posted by Junichiro > 2019-07-18 14:42 | Report Abuse

"And that's why I have always said that enormous patience is required for the strategy."

What an insight !
Keynes said : "in the long term, we are all dead". I remember a bank manager who held a lot of shares for long term investment but joined in the fire sale that followed the stock mart crash in 1987. He did it again in 1998. I know his wife who told me the whole story cos' her husband also dumped her holdings of shares as well.

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-18 15:17 | Report Abuse

I have witnessed 3 severe bear markets, in the 1987, 1997 and 2007. I was not in the 1987 market (too young). I was invested in the stock market when the market collapsed in 1997 and 2007.

In 1997, I saw many lost their weaĺth. Some shared with me they have sold all their shares, that was, they have cashed out. Subsequent events showed they have cashed out when the market had already lost a great deal.

In 2007, likewise. A few shared they have sold everything. Sadly, they too sold out after the market had lost a lot already.


In both 1987 and 2007, my portfolio values dropped severely. In 1997, my stock portfolio value was below my cost. I lost some capital. It was another 4 or 5 years when the market portfolio value was above my initial costs. But this did not include the generous interests I received during this period. These shares are now multi-baggars in my portfolio.

In 2007, my portfolio too went down with the market. However, unlike 1997, its recovery was very fast. The market staged a V shaped recovery in 2009 and these shares too are multibaggars today in my portfolio.

Did I sell in 1997 and in 2017? No. Most of the stocks were held through the crahes. A few counters were sold but they amounted to only a small amount.

Lesson learned: certain selected stocks are safe to be bought and hold for the long term.

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-18 15:23 | Report Abuse

My investing today is very much influenced by my pasts. :-)

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-18 15:24 | Report Abuse

... and by Warren Buffett, my guru and mentor.

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-18 15:34 | Report Abuse

"And that's why I have always said that enormous patience is required for the strategy."

small cap value investors had a good run 2010 to 2014......

u waiting for a repeat run?

Then, first have to go through a 2008 like crash when almost all small caps are traded at historical lows and single digit PE. Actually blue chips and high quality companies did even better than the small caps since the collapse.

Posted by 3iii > 2019-07-18 15:52 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by kcchongnz > 2019-07-18 17:01 | Report Abuse

Posted by GrahamNewman > Jul 18, 2019 11:17 AM | Report Abuse
There's no right or wrong with INSAS, just people's preference. Sure 10 year CAGR 7.2% is commendable given FD 3%, but if you have alternative which you are very confident will beat this, why choose INSAS?

Some might say:alright, after the 100% return, what's next? INSAS got 10 year record, 100% in 1 year then poof, no more target to shoot. But come to think of it, if i can get 100% in 1 year, why would i want 100% in 10 years? I think its a no brainer question.


You are brilliant!

Please tell us your "no-brainer" stock which will give us 100% in the next one year. I certainly will sell all my holding and buy your no-brainer.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2019-07-18 17:06 | Report Abuse

Posted by deMusangking > Jul 18, 2019 10:42 AM | Report Abuse
maybe betting on kon artists like Sslee, kcchong, raider!!!!!
hahaha

Why so happy ah?

You have 4215 posts in i3investor, not little and you must be here in i3 for quite a while, haven't you?

If by now you still cannt identify which is a con artist, you will only have yourself to blame eventually. Then you won't laugh like that any more.

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-18 17:56 | Report Abuse

musang king is highest quality durian, some thing NZ do not have.

Posted by kcchongnz > 2019-07-18 18:05 | Report Abuse

Posted by qqq3 > Jul 18, 2019 10:00 AM | Report Abuse
Jaks is betting on major improvements to its fortune...............Insas betting on what??

Ai, what a poor accountant you are! Kena F left and right for the last few years by Jaks management still find it enjoyable and proud to tell the whole world about it, and bet that to happen to you again.

Owning Insas at this price need not bet for the obscure future. It is all already here, now!

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-18 21:25 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-18 21:33 | Report Abuse

U need instuition meh ??

Just look at jaks want to depend on instuition, see lah...how much the share price down compare to insas leh ??

Posted by deMusangking > Jul 18, 2019 9:31 PM | Report Abuse

y so long winded???!!!!!!!
simple question : y institutions not buying!!!
if u want to promote, u must be able to win over customers lah!!!
u also another failed salesman!!!!!

haha

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-18 21:40 | Report Abuse

Talk very panlai loh...just look at I3 2018 stock pick competition...more than 95% lose money loh...!!

People over confident talk can pick winner anytime mah, actual result not true mah....!!

Thats why raider always advocate defensive...defensive...that is margin of safety...stock like insas hathaway very defensive with big margin of safety loh...!!

Posted by GrahamNewman > Jul 18, 2019 11:17 AM | Report Abuse

There's no right or wrong with INSAS, just people's preference. Sure 10 year CAGR 7.2% is commendable given FD 3%, but if you have alternative which you are very confident will beat this, why choose INSAS?

Why those who liked INSAS never act when GE-14 caused some of the great companies to tumble >70%? Here we have one great example, MYEG. Before and after GE-14, the business did not change much, but share price tumble >70%. Within a year, you can get >100% return.

Those who did act(boldly) in the GE-14 panic would not be talking about INSAS. It's a true blue Graham value stock, but you are relying on the management to realise the value for you(selling the liquid assets and distribute dividend), which is kind of a speculating/gambling.

Some might say:alright, after the 100% return, what's next? INSAS got 10 year record, 100% in 1 year then poof, no more target to shoot. But come to think of it, if i can get 100% in 1 year, why would i want 100% in 10 years? I think its a no brainer question.

Buffett used to practice deep value technique during his partnership, he succeeded. But few would pay attention what he did after buying these cigar butts. He bought his way into the chairman seat, and demanded the value be realised, such as Sanborn Map and Dempster. But we as minority shareholder who bought into these cigar butts can only wait for management to realise value for us.

And why are we comparing these subpar construction companies with INSAS? a look at the operating results of these companies and you know there is no moat.

Afterall, if you are satisfied with 7.2% long term return for 10 year, well, all i can say its good to have low expectation and deliberately be oblivious to other better opportunities.

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-18 21:50 | Report Abuse

Future belum mari mah....!!

$$$$$$$$$$$$$ coming loh....!!

Posted by chkhooju > 2019-07-18 22:56 | Report Abuse

I want to be trapped in INSAS too. It is a blessing in disguise, a happy problem indeed.

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-18 23:00 | Report Abuse

kc...

to be able to sell Jaks at $ 1.70, never look back until it reaches 50 ....that is mark of good contrarian play, a pro.....

now at 80, plenty of upside still to come....

Posted by stockraider > 2019-07-18 23:15 | Report Abuse

aiyoh...u buy jaks rm 0.80 can make monies meh ??

Posted by qqq3 > Jul 18, 2019 11:00 PM | Report Abuse

kc...

to be able to sell Jaks at $ 1.70, never look back until it reaches 50 ....that is mark of good contrarian play, a pro.....

now at 80, plenty of upside still to come....

Posted by qqq3 > 2019-07-18 23:58 | Report Abuse

raid....no one can do infrastruture and power plants like the Chinese.....................