snowball2000

QR still pending on Merdeka eve... What is HLFG cooking?

2023-08-30 11:21

Paul Tan

QR is today?

2023-11-29 11:04

snowball2000

Today is the last day to report on Sep 2023 quarter, unless it has the intention to breach MMLR... ;p

2023-11-30 08:50

snowball2000

Latest QR finally announced. EPS up by 10.9%, overall a good quarter!

2023-11-30 12:47

ariff9696

Why the price been dropping?

2023-11-30 15:15

Paul Tan

got removed from KLCI

2023-11-30 17:49

rohank71

Why it got removed?

2023-11-30 18:12

snowball2000

Westport & dialog are removed..

2023-12-01 05:47

Nice149

HLFG owns HLBank.
HLBamk has the highest margin among all Malaysia banks.
Blue chip share. Just keep and sure up when time comes

2023-12-01 07:11

i3gambler

HLFG own 1340m HLBANK shares
HLFG total out-standing shares = 1134m
Therefore, for every single share of HLFG that we own, it indirectly own 1.1817 share HLBANK.

For the last 4 quarters:
HLBANK EPS=RM1.8873
HLFG EPS = RM2.514

HLFG EPS = 1.1817 * HLBANK EPS + other business EPS,
other business EPS = 2.514 -1.1817 * 1.8873 = 0.2838,

(2.514 - 0.2838) / 2.514 = 88.7%,
Meaning 88.7% of HLFG profit is from HLBANK.

Now, look at their Net Asset per share at 30th Sep 2023,
HLBANK Net Asset per share = RM16.68,
HLFG Net Asset per share = RM24.25,

Same way of calculation,
HLFG other business Net Asset per share = 24.25 - 1.1817 * 16.68 = RM4.54
Meaning the ROE for HLFG other business = 0.2838 / 4.54 = 6.25%, Not Bad.

Now the question is why HLFG is trading at so much cheaper compare to HLBANK?
Because there is a Conglomerate Discount or in Malaysia we call it holding company discount.
But logically it should not be applicable to HLBANK / HLFG because 88.7% of HLFG profit come from HLBANK.

What you people think of it?

2023-12-02 18:44

chtan33

someones intentionally press down the price….

2023-12-02 19:24

Nice149

HLFG has the lowest PE Ratio 6.63 only as compared average bank at Malaysia 9.00
P/B ratio is at 0.68 and the lowest among the banks

This is sure win shares and continue to take any opportunity to accumulate at dip.

2023-12-03 21:41

i3gambler

My opinion,
Logically, holding company discount should only be applicable to those companies that owning non-controlling stake, which have no say in business operation, example INSAS holding INARI, ICAP holding a basket of companies.

But HLFG have full control of HLBANK and HLCAP, so to me, holding company discount is not applicable.

2023-12-04 12:50

snowball2000

Does anyone have any idea about the carrying book value of hlfg's bank of chengdu 19.8% investment vs the current valuation of BOC in chinese stock exchange? EPS and NBV of BOC as well?

2023-12-05 10:03

i3gambler

snowball2000，
You can go to yahoo finance and search for it.

://finance.yahoo.com/quote/601838.SS/key-statistics?p=601838.SS

2023-12-06 13:17

snowball2000

#i3gambler
TQ

2023-12-07 16:14

jianwei90

still havent go up, anyone knows what happened?

2023-12-19 16:52

UncleFollower

The good thing is it didn't go down today so it's a good swap to others which tanked terribly 😂

2024-01-18 17:05

Natito33

cheersss

2024-01-23 20:32

katara

buy

2024-01-31 10:33

Pinky

HLFG vs HLB, which is the better buy?

1 is pure bank, 1 is full fledged financial provider

Hmm...

2024-02-03 17:33

JLKL12

HLFG vs HLBANK (last fin yr info)
Price 16.28 vs 18.96 (closing on 9th Feb)
EPS(cts) 246.1 vs 186.37
NTA 23.62 vs 16.59
PE 4.51 vs 10.96
S-Issued 1.147B vs 2.167B

2024-02-13 15:13

Pinky

HLFG suffers from holding company/conglomerate discount

2024-02-14 17:38

speakup

Already back to pre covid

2024-02-14 20:54

hw0706

wait for it to come down to 15.00

2024-03-08 13:55

Pinky

Value trap

2024-03-26 16:28

Thirai Thiraviam

Today, I finally took a position in both HLB and HLFG. Compared to other local banks, in which I've had position since Covid, HLB seems to be the cheapest. Over the last few years, the profitability of HLFG has increased; and, yet, the price seems not to have kept pace. I wonder why. True, it is not that strong, financially, but so are other banks in Malaysia.

2024-05-21 11:55

Papayashot

Hi Thirai, what you meant by "True, it is not that strong, financially, but so are other banks in Malaysia."?

2024-05-21 13:37

Thirai Thiraviam

> what you meant by "True, it is not that strong, financially, but so are other banks in Malaysia."?

Over the last ten years, the Revenue per Share of HLFG has grown from RM 4.24 to RM 5.47. During the same period, the Tangible Book per Share has almost tripled from RM 8.16 to RM 22.67. Which raises questions (to me, at least) about the quality of the assets that are being accumulated.

Now, I also look at the Cash & Equivalents over the same 10-year period and compare it with Total Liabilities. Between the periods 2014-2020, the group's cash position was between RM16.3 bil and RM24.8 bil. Total Liabilities on the other hand has tended to be below RM200 bil. However, if we look at the current values, the Cash position has dwindled to RM 11.1 bil whereas the Liabilities has ballooned to RM 278 bil.

Hence, my comment above.

2024-05-21 18:31

raymondroy

good analysis @i3gambler and @Thirai Thiraviam ..... im planning to enter HLFG mainly due to its low PER, based on current qtr eps of 72.1c, this works out to T4 PER of 6.06x.... which is so low!!! Or shd I just get into Ambank and RHB? Objective..... recession prove investment into financial services

2024-05-30 13:22

Pinky

HL is too tightly held by Quek

2024-05-30 13:40

MalaysiaEquityGuide

https://youtu.be/Tx3xLTmxU1s

banking sector small comparison

2024-06-03 23:38

Thirai Thiraviam

raymondroy:
> im planning to enter HLFG mainly due to its low PER, based on current qtr eps of 72.1c, this works out to T4 PER of 6.06x.... which is so low!!! Or shd I just get into Ambank and RHB

I increased my position in HLFG again today. It seems terribly undervalued. As per my estimates, it should be trading at around RM27. So, I really don't understand why it is selling at such a deep discount. I don't mind holding on to HLFG for the long-term, but with a dividend yield south of 3% (owing to a very low dividend payout ratio), I recognise it'll be pain. As to your question, both RHB and Ambank appear to be undervalued, as well. But RHB pays good dividend (payout ratio > 0.6). I have been holding on to RHB for four years now. No regrets.

Also, look at this forum. HLFG is one of the largest PLCs in Malaysia, and is part of the FBM KLCI, and yet, so few people post here.

2024-06-05 11:59

DividendGuy67

In another chatgroup, an i3 forummer asked me what I thought of HLFG vs HLIND.

My thoughts on HLFG here - https://klse.i3investor.com/web/blog/detail/DividendGuy67/2024-07-27-story-h-155975787-HLFG_Is_it_too_cheap.

I avoid HLFG and prefer HLBANK but my holdings in HLBANK is significantly smaller due to the Quek factor. He owns too much. Additionally, none of his children are likely to succeed him. Shares that are willed to children who don't take over from such a dominant person are likely to be sold, and the market simply cannot absorb ...

So, the combination of very high % holding, stinginess to share profits with shareholders, the longer it goes, the worse it'll get.

This is more likely to turn out to be a value trap i.e. if the payout is barely matching FD, I can't be interested to buy.

Malaysia is not the same as the US. There are too many situations where PE and PB is so cheap, but due to tight control, there's just no way for market/activists to take a seat in the Board to force unlocking and without a mechanism to unlock, and Quek decides on the % of profits to share with shareholders whilst he is still alive, it'll be a long long wait.

As usual, just my view, you are responsible for your own trading and investing decision.

2024-07-27 23:47

raymondroy

thx @DividendGuy67 ...... did not know these info.... quek kids are not following his footsteps as in none will take over from him? Why dont other parties slowly take up the shares in open market..... can possibly reach a point for MTO :-) sad to see the state of affairs in the quek family like this..... will need a white knight

2024-07-28 14:14

DividendGuy67

I don't think QLC cares about HLFG valuations. Put yourself in his shoes. He's in his 80s. Why should he divest his shares when he's alive, if this risks someone else kicking him out? "Over my dead body!" - QLC cries out! ;-)

Put yourself in the acquirer shoes - why should they pay a premium to buy QLC out, when MV is so low? First, QLC won't allow it - same "over my dead body" argument.

I'm sure there's better ways (e.g. cousins in Singapore, bypassing children?). I'm sure there's a solution somewhere if several parties are willing, but problem is willingness is not certain when multiple parties are involved. So, this looks like a 7 foot hurdle to me than a 1 foot hurdle. I'll let someone brighter and smarter figure this one out. So, I personally pass HLFG.

2024-07-28 17:05

DividendGuy67

Imagine trying to go against the guy who owns 78% of the shares.
What can anybody do?
Let say someone plans to do a hostile takeover - he starts buying up the remaining 22% shares.
In the process, he bids the price up.
QLC can just ignore him.
Let say there's only 2 parties left - Bursa will come in and say you have to delist because you don't comply with listing requirements. It gets delisted, QLC don't care, you are stuck with unlisted stock owning 22%.
And QLC controls the dividends - he can simply cut down the dividends and your 22% now is not worth anything and doesn't even receive dividends.
This guy controls everything. Nobody dares to try anything against him.

2024-07-28 17:13

DividendGuy67

Essentially, HLFG investors are just waiting for him to be "charitable" to unlock value. Too difficult for me.

2024-07-28 17:14

DividendGuy67

And guys like him, with tremendous resources, can live to a very advanced age. 80s is still young. Charlie Munger lives up to 99. Public bank founder Teh Hong Piau lives up to 92, and QLC may be longer than him. Technology to prolong lives gets better and better.
As value investors, our timeframe is only 3 years - if it takes longer than 3 years, it will only cause our portfolio to lag. Value investors buy low, aiming to sell high. It's different than dividend investors who buys and hope to hold forever looking for rising dividends for a lifetime to replace active income with passive income. If HLFG dividends is higher at say mid point between EPF and FD, I will buy but at this rate, it's a long wait to see 2.77% rising to 4.5% say. At 3% growth, that's more than 15 years wait. Hence, not suitable for my goals.

2024-07-28 17:20

raymondroy

ur right DividendGuy67 ..... at such a large sharehoding no one can come close, i still recall the good ol days when hong leong only had stock broking business and was hunting for bankng license but it was frozen, so word has it that QLC being a good kawan of anwar - fin minister then, persuaded latter to put mui bank in cold storage..... not allowed to increase branches or even atm..... and thus was forced to sell to QLC.... those were the days lah, wonder if the kwek singapore and quek malaysia still in good ties?

2024-07-29 02:35

Papayashot

So DividendGuy67, what QLC going to do? Keep the bulk of shares even after passing?

2024-07-29 14:23

Papayashot

And DividendGuy67, could you explain why PPHB, quite a good stock (consistent earnings growth, but it is paying very insignificant dividends, less than 1%), why market still buy this share up?

2024-07-30 15:50

bullrun168

Walaoeh, what happend ?
Super damn hot man HLFG today !
Now HLFG was traded at @RM18.66 (+0.48) (+2.64 %)
Heng ah, Ong ah, Huat ah !

2024-08-28 11:31

UncleFollower

Regret lor sold off everything at lows swapped to small mid caps earlier

2024-08-28 17:11

speakup

This is not a bank. Hong leong bank is bank

2024-09-10 20:48

i3gambler

Of course it is a bank. It has:
1) Investment banking,
2) Insurance business,
3) Commercial banking via HLBANK.

You see, MAYBANK, CIMB, RHBBANK, PBBANK also have all this commercial banking, investment banking and insurance business. The only thing different is HLFG listed its commercial banking separately.

2 months ago

snowball2000

Overall a good QR, but suffers from forex translation loss...

3 weeks ago

Papayashot

Net profit increases yoy 10%++, growth with 5-yr CAGR of 15%+. However, share price also cannot up... Really dunno what can make this counter up...

2 weeks ago

mf

South Korean won falls sharply after president declares martial law

2 weeks ago

snowball2000

HLFG plunging now... What happened? Foreign funds retreating?

5 days ago