Posted by arv18 > 38 minutes ago | Report Abuse come on now. you've answered your own question. and not "perceived". it is one. cherry picking a month (Jan) and year (2009) to suit your story is wee bit sad tbh.
Thanks for your comment. You are definitely not the only few who think Insas is a value trap. Many seemingly good investors also think so, and I think you are not wrong. However, I am not responsible for your "sadness" in my "story". I have no control over it. The date January 2009 was chosen as I was trying to look at look term return, rather on the noises in the short term, and 15 years was the longest I could get as you can see from the chart in the article. Well, you could do some homework to choose other dates to substantiate your theory of value trap of Insas. I am sure you can do that. So which return you want to chose, 10-year, 5 year, or one year, or 9.8 years? And was Insas a value trap basing on your choice of reference? Would like to see your analysis.
Posted by CharlesT > 26 minutes ago | Report Abuse Personally I think it's better for KCChong to leave I3 forever io coming back to do this promotion on Insas.
Thanks for your advice. May be you are right. However, I have benefited immensely from i3investors. Good to contribute back, I think. But why do you think I need to "promote" Insas? Have I really promoted any shares in i3investor since years ago, or was I just sharing my points of views on various stocks?
Posted by CharlesT > 3 hours ago | Report Abuse Personally I think it's better for KCChong to leave I3 forever io coming back to do this promotion on Insas
I do agree with you although there is no intention of promoting Insas. It is no use to be in a forum when the only thing the participants talk about is the share price.
Oscar Wilde once said that "A fool is someone who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing".
@OTB "Yes, it is my mistake. I did recommend to buy 30% at 0.40, buy another 30% on correction and add 40% if the share price can cross 0.40 after correction. I agreed this recommendation report only come out at night. It is in a hurry, everyone is asking me to buy Insas. I will be more careful in future, will not recommend if I do not have my strategy plan. I am sorry."
Please stop to attack kcchongnz. I wish kcchongnz will continue to post his good article in I3 to benefit all readers. I3 is short of good analyst like kcchongnz. I believe kcchongnz is capable and a good FA analyst. I learn all my FA lessons from him, kcchongnz is my best FA teacher. dragon328 is a very good FA analyst, I believe kcchongnz is also another good FA analyst. kcchongnz, welcome back to I3, we miss you a lot. Thank you.
When u talk about share always look beyond the share price, and reflect on its business, terms of business potential, its cashflow, its assets valuation n its liquidity & cash holding loh!
Insas perform highly above those matrix mah!
Posted by kcchongnz > 2 days ago | Report Abuse
Posted by CharlesT > 3 hours ago | Report Abuse Personally I think it's better for KCChong to leave I3 forever io coming back to do this promotion on Insas
I do agree with you although there is no intention of promoting Insas. It is no use to be in a forum when the only thing the participants talk about is the share price.
Oscar Wilde once said that "A fool is someone who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing".
Alot of Insas value investors sifu after holding so long have dispose a sizeable of their holdings, R they right in disposing so soon leh ?
Ans; As a value investor selling so soon is wrong loh! As our master sifu Tong Kooi Ong had indicated a conservative fair value of Rm 4.33, thus selling at Rm 1.30 & below is a wrong decision loh! Surely u can safely hold on insas longer & sell it at 50% fair value that is roughly Rm 2.15 per share mah!
The only justifications of selling insas prematurely at Rm 1.30 & below is just to buy insurance loh! In which alot of sellers did that loh! But after selling enough to buy adequate insurance, it is time u hang on to your remaining insas for higher target above Rm 2.15 loh!
Forget of all the naysayers shouting value traps lah! This lah! That lah!
Just have convictions & believe in the proven facts that insas worth alot of monies above Rm 4.33 loh!
TheContrarian When this article was written Insas was at 1.27. Today Insas closed at 1.09. So, is Insas a value trap?
If you make a decision based on your statement above to decide and demand me to say I have been wrong whether Insas a value trap or not, that is your prerogative, and I respect your opinion. My point of view is just different from you as I looked at a whole lot of different things, all in the article itself. Do you expect everyone thinks the same?
I sincerely think most people think Insas is a value trap. Had I not thought so I wouldn't have completely exited thrice near the peak in the past ten years or so, making a 4 fold gain from my initial investment by buying back near bottom after having sold near peak.
TheContrarian I sincerely think most people think Insas is a value trap. Had I not thought so I wouldn't have completely exited thrice near the peak in the past ten years or so, making a 4 fold gain from my initial investment by buying back near bottom after having sold near peak.
Congrats, in market timing, you are the best.
But I am confused here. Did you profit from a value stock or a value trap.
For value stock, investor buys it when it is selling cheap, have to buy first. When the price goes up, then you sell it and you profit from it. And repeat, just like what you have been doing for Insas.
But for a value trap, the share appears to be cheap and you buy it. Because it is a value trap, it is never cheap in the first place, and the price continues to go down. No dividends too. So how come you were so good profiting in 4 folds in trading in a value trap? It is never suppose to go up for you to profit, isn't it.
If you buy 10,000 shares at 60 sen, sells all at RM1.10 your original RM6,000 becomes RM11,000 and with that amount you can later buy back say, 15,000 shares at around 70 sen. Then sell the 15,000 shares at RM1.20 to get RM18,000. Later when price drops back to say, 80 sen, you can buy 22,500 shares. And after selling off 22,500 shares at say, average price of RM1.30 you realised a total of RM29,250 , that's a gain of RM23,250 from your initial cost of investment of RM6,000 , almost 4 fold gain.
You don't learn this by reading stock investment books or attending investment talks, you earn the gains by actually timing when to buy and when to exit, all decision by yourself.
well i wouldnt invest in a value trap, unless the management has plan to unlock the value.. also if the value is in shares, the actual value could be much lesser....since if the shares is dump to the market , it probably wont be worth much...unless there is a buyer...
This mean Ah Thong accumulate/lock in to much value/current assets/cash/FD inside insas. Hence Insas ia a value trap waiting to be unlocked some fine day.
In conclusion buy below 90 sen and sell above RM 1.20 and repeat few times as what TheContrarian did for 4X gain.
noted thanks sifu Sslee wah.... now i can really feel that this is a value trapped.... will patiently wait at my dock no. 0.860 and quick quick on board then... appreciate Sslee sifu learnt something new
If you make a decision based on your statement above to decide and demand me to say I have been wrong whether Insas a value trap or not, that is your prerogative, and I respect your opinion. My point of view is just different from you as I looked at a whole lot of different things, all in the article itself. Do you expect everyone thinks the same?
what is your definition of value from the perspective of a minority shareholder.
Dear Godhand would u mind pick up some points from the article that go align with your value trap definition? just a brief one will do as a point form
Lets put it this way. as a minority shareholder what is your certainty? I'm not going to say that Insas is a trap but it simply lack the certainty. It also could be the nature of their business that they have to hoard the cash and re-invest. What guarantee the minority that they can have the piece of cake? I think whatever the author say here is irrelevant. what is more important is the direction and promise that the this company made and deliver in stages to the shareholders
Posted by godhand > 1 minute ago | Report Abuse Lets put it this way. as a minority shareholder what is your certainty? I'm not going to say that Insas is a trap but it simply lack the certainty. It also could be the nature of their business that they have to hoard the cash and re-invest. What guarantee the minority that they can have the piece of cake? I think whatever the author say here is irrelevant. what is more important is the direction and promise that the this company made and deliver in stages to the shareholders
Dear Sslee sifu since Sslee sifu has been closely participating AGM and whatsoever meetings with the board members any directions and promises that they have made to assure to the minority's shareholders that they will deliver besides the large amount of cash pile and deposit?
Posted by TheContrarian > 7 minutes ago | Report Abuse
What Is a Value Trap? A value trap is a stock or other investment that appears attractively priced because it has been trading at low valuation metrics, such as price to earnings (P/E), price to cash flow (P/CF), or price to book value (P/B) for an extended period.
Posted by TheContrarian > 6 minutes ago | Report Abuse
A value trap persuades investors because the trade appears inexpensive relative to historical valuation multiples of the stock, industry peers, or the prevailing market multiple. A value trap can drop further after an investor buys into the company.
KEY TAKEAWAYS Value traps are misleading investments trading at low levels that present buying opportunities for investors. For a value trap investment, the low price is often accompanied by extended periods of low multiples.
i didnt say its a trap. i simply think the BOD do not have the conviction or integrity to set a long term promises to the shareholders. Please understand that the minorities just want to get paid. Setting a simple dividend policy shouldnt be that hard .how many %? if cant set now then when? why? whats the setback? Stock price doesnt just derived from the figure factor. The management integrity is placed above everything else.
This book is the result of the author's many years of experience and observation throughout his 26 years in the stockbroking industry. It was written for general public to learn to invest based on facts and not on fantasies or hearsay....
arv18
2,661 posts
Posted by arv18 > 2024-01-18 10:46 | Report Abuse
come on now. you've answered your own question.
and not "perceived". it is one.
cherry picking a month (Jan) and year (2009) to suit your story is wee bit sad tbh.