Posted by dumbMoney > 2024-01-15 01:38 | Report Abuse

" Your Fund has a Prescribed Limit in its Constitution imposed by the Securities Commission Guidelines for Public Offerings of Securities of Closed-end Funds [Paragraph 3.7.1(iii)] and the Bursa Main Market Listing Requirements [Paragraph 7.40]." Which Clause in the constitution says so on the foreign shareholders 20% limit?

Posted by dumbMoney > 2024-01-15 15:56 | Report Abuse

Whoever John Dough is, he better not be connected to iCap or he will be in contempt of the court injunction for posting this.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2024-01-15 20:09 | Report Abuse

O ya....I forgot tomorrow is the court case. By right they should not discuss such matter publicly like dumbMoney said especially this was published in the iCap newsletter.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2024-01-16 10:43 | Report Abuse

Yes, the outcome of the court case will be very interesting, whether there is such a limit?

Posted by Patient Investor > 2024-01-18 16:18 | Report Abuse

Hearing postpone, here's my personal opinion:
foreign institution will scoop up as much as possible before the hearing,
Malaysia shareholders who aim to unload can take advantage and queue at higher price close to NAV.

Posted by ZhugeLiang88 > 2024-01-18 20:51 | Report Abuse

@Patient Investor, How long have you owned Icap stocks?

Posted by dumbMoney > 2024-01-18 22:50 | Report Abuse

@Patient Investor But this is exactly what the company is trying to prevent from happening, with the foreign shareholding limit! You have to decide whether COL is a benefactor or a wrecker?

Posted by Patient Investor > 2024-01-19 09:49 | Report Abuse

@dumbMoney I don't like the idea a foreign fund pursuing a board seat in the fund with the power to remove the fund manager, the fund is set up based on Mr.Tan investment strategy.

If COL bought into the fund just for growth, I'm fine, but it's pretty obvious they are accumulating for a controlling stake, with hostile attitude towards the fund.

As a institution fund, their performance sucks, and yet some of you are defending COL.
https://citlon.com/emerging-markets-cef/

Posted by dumbMoney > 2024-01-19 13:04 | Report Abuse

What hostile acts did COL commit against the company so far? Even though it has more than the required 10% shares, did it propose any EGM or resolutions ever? Did it take the company to court? If merely voting against the resolutions at AGM is considered hostile, then better not run a public company. I have not yet come across any other public listed company that asked its shareholders to justify their voting choices. COL's presence has been blamed as the cause of the discount, and yet evidence has shown that their buying after the lifting of the injunction is the main cause of the price increase. I have explained here more than once that the fund manager's position is iron clad, as its removal requires a special resolution, so stop the fear mongering that the company is in danger of being taken over. Recent AGM and EGM voting results are proof.

Posted by Patient Investor > 2024-01-19 23:11 | Report Abuse

Recent AGM voting turn out is around 70%, so there's possibility if COL keep accumulating. not everyone would be able to make it to vote in EGM.

You are picking a specific timeframe to justify COL buying increase the share price.
If that's really the case, why is the gap not close before COL is being blamed?

Whether Mr.Tan claim on danger of being taken over is valid is not my concern. As shareholder what's your concern on him making such claim ? Why do you care if there's an injunction on COL or not?

What' COL intention in investing in icap?

Posted by dumbMoney > 2024-01-20 03:14 | Report Abuse

The failed injunction on COL cost the company an undisclosed legal costs, which every shareholder should care. Someone mentioned the figure was $800K, and it was money down the drain. Same with the failed dual listing expenses, Any other shareholder asked any questions on that? That's 6.7 million, in case people forgot the figure.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2024-01-20 03:23 | Report Abuse

As the investors with the largest shareholdings in the company, what ever the intention is, it is definitely not to destroy shareholders value, which is against its own interest. And it is still buying after more than 10 years, without selling. Just like Dr. M, its loyalty is being questioned. The Company and the management are two different entities. A citizen may vote against the ruling government, but he or she need not be disloyal to the country.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2024-01-20 03:43 | Report Abuse

Whatever happens to COL or what COL's next move will be should be of concern to shareholders. If it should decide there is no point remaining persona non grata and pull the plug, what will happen to the share price? If their investment funds are well diversified and have gains else where, they can afford to take the loss on their portfolio if need be. Can the retail investors do the same? Don't expect any other foreign funds will want to come in to fill the gap, after seeing the way foreigners have been treated all this while.

Posted by 4dview > 2024-01-20 13:40 | Report Abuse

dumpMoney is the main participant in this forum that attracts my full attention. His comment might annoy a lot of loyal fans of iCap. But to me, a long time "shareowner" of iCap, I find he is well versed in investment and offer rational argument. Shareholders of iCap should spend some time to read his comment objectively.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2024-01-20 14:27 | Report Abuse

@Patient Investor, the chart was posted by me la😂😂 Obviously dumbMoney is the only 1 guy you go after.

You know why I it starting from May '23? It's 3 months before a key event of the injunction was lifted(Aug '23). TTB committing something very selfish with only 1 objective that is to kill COL. He put iCap shareholder at risk by an under taking to compensate COL for the missed opportunity to buy at lower price to get an injunction to prevent COL to buy further while the court case was on-going. Do you want me to update the chart? It will look even worse on TTB if I go back another 2 years + the discount to NAV.....

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2024-01-20 14:30 | Report Abuse

The reason I put up the huge price run up was to proof a point: TTB always claims COL crashed the price by bad mouthing iCAP to buy more...

But if you look at the price action.....again and again....whenever they bought.....the price went up

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2024-01-20 14:34 | Report Abuse

During the recent selected counters melt down......iCAP small shareholders panic and dumped as low as 2.75....if it was not COL stepped in to buy on that day of 16 Jan 2024.....iCAP price would have crashed instead of you see a hanging man....they bought 174,900 shares. Where is TTB during that time?

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2024-01-20 14:38 | Report Abuse

I bet TTB will be smiling stu____gid gwailo......let them buy...when the price steady.....TTB will came out and claim due to his excellent fund management......iCAP remains in 1 piece. He will again claim he is the hero of small timer investors

Posted by dumbMoney > 2024-01-20 16:43 | Report Abuse

@4dview Thanks for the moral support, at least there is some one who says I am not posting rubbish here. I have been around on both the buy and sell side of the securities business, running a broking firm and managing portfolios, so should know a thing or two about the stock market and closed end funds. If you have the time and wants to know more about iCap, I suggest you do some due diligence on the recent foreign shareholders limit claimed by the company. You may be surprised.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2024-01-20 16:58 | Report Abuse

iCap has claimed that COL is the de facto owner of the shares registered in the various funds name. There is a similar counterpart for board of directors of companies. There are official directors who act for 'shadow directors' whose name do not appear, but effectively control the company. When things go wrong, the BOD will be on the firing line, but not the latter. This is what is going to happen to some of the companies being investigated now for all kinds of wrongdoings.

Posted by Sslee > 2024-01-20 17:08 | Report Abuse

Posted by FastMoney666 > Jan 20, 2024 2:34 PM | Report Abuse

During the recent selected counters melt down......iCAP small shareholders panic and dumped as low as 2.75....if it was not COL stepped in to buy on that day of 16 Jan 2024.....iCAP price would have crashed instead of you see a hanging man....they bought 174,900 shares. Where is TTB during that time?


Maybe COL is masochists and turn on by pain inflicted by TTB.

So after all you must thanks TTB for causing COL to buy more and thus TTB deserved the credit/claim due to his excellent fund management......iCAP remains in 1 piece. He is the true hero of small timer investors

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2024-01-20 17:20 | Report Abuse

@SSLee...haha..buy Insas better😁

Posted by Sslee > 2024-01-20 17:28 | Report Abuse

@FastMoney666,

Hope it was TTB of icap buying Insas recently and causing Insas shares price to spike up.

By the way I already sold some Insas to take some profit off the table.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2024-01-20 17:31 | Report Abuse

@Sslee I have described the iCap's deep discount as shark bait, getting COL hooked, thinking the discount should normalise sooner or later like most other CEF's. But instead, the discount has now turned into a semi-permanent feature and COL has neither a minimal haircut exit plan, nor a clear way forward. I am not their supporter, but a sympathizer, because in spite of their best efforts, fund managers can be caught due to circumstances beyond their control. They have to face their impatient investors after every performance report, but have no answers.

Posted by Sslee > 2024-01-20 17:44 | Report Abuse

@dumbMoney,
Can Fund managers buy PN17 company shares?

I am just worrying why icap still hold so much capA shares and what is TTB exit plan if by 30 June 2024 capA apply for another extension to submit PN17 regulation plan but Bursa Securities reject the application and suspend the trading of the listed securities of the Company on the 6th market day after the date of notification of suspension by Bursa Securities and de-list the Company, subject to the Company's right to appeal against the delisting.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2024-01-20 18:06 | Report Abuse

@Sslee Under the prospectus of the company, and the constitution, there is no restriction against the purchase of PN17 shares. There is only a special resolution against investing in foreign markets. However, I am not sure what is the accounting standard now for suspended shares, how to mark to market. For broking firms, suspended shares under margin will be valued as zero, more because there is no ready market rather than actual value of the shares. Other funds may have specific restrictions on what they can hold, e.g. bond funds may have minimum credit ratings requirements, some funds in the past can only invest in 'trustee' stocks, i.e. those that pay a certain dividend.

Posted by 4dview > 2024-01-20 18:44 | Report Abuse

If you have followed TTB's newsletter, he has been "researching" on Capital A for the past umpteen years. At first his comment is sell or no buy at least. Then when AirAsia (former name of Capital A) looked like in the doldrums, he went in to scoop up a relatively large chunk of shares, at average price not near quite the bottom. To me, that was a high risk venture, and the timing was not perfect. How the investment turns out will decide whether he is a shrewd or erratic investor.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2024-01-20 20:18 | Report Abuse

TTB made investment in Airasia on behalf of iCap in 2008 and sold it in 2009 with a small profit and somehow this love for Airasia seems to be re-ignited again during Covid...both transacted during crisis but this time round when taxis grounded while rental is running is very much different.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2024-01-20 20:38 | Report Abuse

@SSLee very honest of you telling everyone that you have taken profits on Insas....May be still got momentum to go if Inari continue to lari....all the best on the remaining shares.

Ytl was stuck in 10 years bear market...when the sellers were finally exhausted, from a flip 10 year low to 10 year high and run like a mad bull but supported by fundamentals 😂😂

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2024-01-20 20:50 | Report Abuse

Back to Capital A tinge, iCap invested at cost of RM 32 million and estimated value as of last Friday RM 28 million, a paper loess of 4 million. Assuming it burnt down to zero, impact on NAV is $ 0.228, potential impact is 6% to NAV.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2024-01-20 20:54 | Report Abuse

May not be a disaster but certainly I have my doubt on his claim of LOW RISK, High Return.

Another stock, Parkson at one time has about RM 50 million in iCap portfolio but he saw it dwindled to decline to a level of permanent capital loss.

Posted by calvintaneng > 2024-01-21 02:40 |

Post removed.Why?

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2024-01-21 10:03 | Report Abuse

Ya. if Jaya Tiasa can benchmark other counters that with payout ratio > 90% there will be high possibility of valuation expansion to re-rating to 10X.

United Plantation
PE 11.5, DY 9.2%, Payout ratio 106%

Ta Ann
PE 10, DY 9.6%, Payout ratio 94%


KMLoong
PE 13, DY 7.6%, Payout ratio = 106%

Jaya Tiasa
PE = 6, DY 3%, Payout ratio 17%

If payout ratio can be raised to 90%, Dividend/share = 0.16, Assume DY 10% --> share price = 1.6 but if this trigger re-rating to 10X your call of surpassing 2.7 is not impossible.

Patience is needed though as works need to be done by the management to raise the dividend payout ratio.

Posted by JohnD0ugh > 2024-01-22 00:22 | Report Abuse

I have often asked myself whether our shareowners are aware or remember why icapital.biz Berhad was created in the first place. Unlike other listed Funds or listed companies, icapital.biz Berhad was intentionally set up with a unique objective on top of a social mission.

As I explained to the High Court judge in the Defamation Trial against a senior editor of The Edge in 2018, the journey I undertook in launching icapital.biz Berhad was like a crusade with the aim of building a better Malaysia.

Similarly, unlike the many conventional closed-end funds found in developed financial markets like New York, the success of icapital.biz Berhad can only be fully appreciated if it is viewed against its original motivation. I set up icapital.biz Berhad more than 19 years ago and got it listed in 2005 for one simple reason : to allow long-term shareholders or more aptly called share owners, to benefit from value investing.

Investing in your Fund allows the power of compounding to work for you. If we succeed in achieving this, we would have also shown that serious long-term investing in Bursa Securities can offer superior returns. The objective was not just narrowly financial - to show that compounding works over the long term - but it also was broader and to demonstrate that sound long-term investing by individuals can work in Malaysia.

Achieving such a long-term socio economic objective is an important part of nation building and can bring about many positive contributions to the development of this young country and its capital market. It can also help bring about a better society. When embarking, we genuinely believe that every Malaysian can help in this journey.

I hope that Malaysians of all ages can realise that we have een trying extremely hard since 2005 to build icapital. biz Berhad into a very different and precious corporate entity, one that is more than just delivering superior annual compound returns. For example, the highly successful Investor Day of icapital.biz Berhad has been organised based on similar socio-economic objectives and public mission.

To put it simply, successfully building icapital.biz Berhad is akin to building a better Malaysia. To me, they are synonymous.


i Capital.biz Berhad 2023 Annual Report

Posted by Patient Investor > 2024-01-22 09:26 | Report Abuse

@Fastmoney Not sure what chart are you talking about. You are selecting certain time frame to justify COL action, just need to put yourself in COL shoes.
1. if COL plan to hold long term for NAV appreciation and growth improvement, they would like to accumulate as much as possible at low price.
2. if COL wants an exit at close to NAV. they might pop up the share price, but who will be buying their large chunk at that level? you?
3. if COL able to remove mr. Tan. They can appoint a FM with different investment methodology, worst case they can misuse the funds to work with companies to manipulate share price. Or small holders might dispose their holdings in view Mr.Tan not in charge, and COL would be able to scoop up more shares at lower price, and go for liquidation.

Posted by Patient Investor > 2024-01-22 09:29 | Report Abuse

@dumbmoney
https://citlon.com/emerging-markets-cef/
COL overall return is poorer than icap, I don't get what you mean by " If their investment funds are well diversified and have gains else where, they can afford to take the loss on their portfolio if need be. "
icap could be their best investment thus far. And they are struggling for survival. If Mr.Tan can be pressured and attacked by you guys at such level, what kind of pressure will COL taken.

Posted by Patient Investor > 2024-01-22 09:38 | Report Abuse

@SSLEE Can you share why dispose INSAS at 1.20? PE 7, the NAB is 3.50 and been increasing almost at 10% yearly for past 3 years.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2024-01-22 10:33 | Report Abuse

@Patient Investor....first, from the way you reply and participate, I am comforted you are not someone from iCap. We will then can have meaningful discussions.

COL like dumbMoney said kena shark bait.....

They just get caught between a hard place and a rock.......with such a big position - 4 possible strategies of COL exit

1. Buying nearer to NAV(3.6) then exit -- this strategy will be tough because the moment the market participants see they exit, all will rush out at the same time, price will fall....back to square one.

2. Continue to buy and hold patiently while NAV to grow.......say to 10, even exit at 8, based on the entry price they have, they will still make a decent profit

3. Buy till 33%, trigger the MGO but then with a large base of loyal fans of TTB, not many will accept. So COL will get stuck.

4. COL to buy till >75% then we can talk about removing TTB or fund liquidation.

In my mind, we can let COL do whatever they want to do and there is no need for TTB to demonising COL. That's all I was trying to say. COL makes or losses money doesn't concern me.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2024-01-22 11:28 | Report Abuse

@Patient Investor What do you mean by "pressured and attacked by you guys"? As far as I am concerned, I am not a party acting in concert with COL. Don't know them personally, not in contact with them. Also, COL has claimed to be a passive investor while I am an active one. As I have mentioned before, all COL did was to vote against certain resolutions, and that is attack? If what I wrote are rubbish, how can these pressure TTB? Just ignore them, don't need to single me out at AGM's. My votes are so insignificant, and did I ever suggest the fund manager to be replaced or the fund liquidated? On the contrary, I have been explaining how difficult these can be, so don't dream about them. As they say, quantity may not be equal to quality, so no need to keep a tally of my posts, unless I can be a KOL on this blog and fan a mob of attackers. My posts on the "cash is a free call option" and the "novel dividend policy" are not personal attacks, just to explain why they are different from what I have been taught by my business school professors. But the School had been attacked as having taught me rubbish, what a waste doing my MBA there. To make such a comment on a business school that has pioneered modern portfolio theory, efficient market hypothesis, options pricing theory and corporate finance theory, all Nobel Prize winning contributions to fiance, reflects on either a person's arrogance or envy.

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2024-01-22 12:28 | Report Abuse

Of all the B schools in the world, why TTB said no need to go to University of Chicago, just come to work in CDAM... Better than the best 😂😂

Posted by Sslee > 2024-01-22 13:04 | Report Abuse

To put it simply, successfully building icapital.biz Berhad is akin to building a better Malaysia. To me, they are synonymous.

Even if TTB successfully building icapital.biz Berhad into billion dollar company but looking at today Malaysia (rampant corruption and abuse of power) or capital market insiders (karim) frauds and syndicate pump and dump is everywhere and Bursa SC just keep a blind eye.

Is that a better Malaysia?

I think me attending AGM holding BOD, Management, Auditor, Company Secretary accountable, responsible and answerable.
And writing long long complaint letter to Bursa SC urging actions to be taken against corporate wrong doing and abuse of power is more sincere than TTB pretentious.

Posted by Sslee > 2024-01-22 13:09 | Report Abuse

Posted by Patient Investor > Jan 22, 2024 9:38 AM | Report Abuse
@SSLEE Can you share why dispose INSAS at 1.20? PE 7, the NAB is 3.50 and been increasing almost at 10% yearly for past 3 years

Insas has been in my portfolio of my self imposed rule of max 50% for many years. Thus even at time Insas drop to the level I should buy more but I can't. Hence I sold some Insas to take profit and in case Insas drop back I can buy then.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2024-01-22 13:12 | Report Abuse

TTB wants to give the impression that he is under existential siege from all sides when the voting results show otherwise. In fact, he is the one on the offensive, taking COL to court in a failed attempt to stop its buying, and hoisting an unannounced foreign shareholding limit on surprised foreign shareholders, forcing them to take out an injunction for protection. Not to mention having closed door road shows to attack his imaginary enemies. Did COL say any thing here or in public?

Posted by dumbMoney > 2024-01-22 14:04 | Report Abuse

To show that I write without fear or favor, this is a letter to the Edge written back in 1998 against UE-Renong's poor corporate governance, and we all know how powerful they were then: April 27, 1998
LETTERS TO THE EDITOR
The Edge, PO Box 8348, Pejabat Pos Kelana Jaya, 46788 Petaling Jaya or e-mail: tecom@pc.jaring.my.
Pseudonyms are allowed but please state your full name, address and contact number (tel/fax) for us to verify

It’s definitely not the spirit*
When you thought it's safe to get back into the water (the stock market) after Jaws 1 (the United Engineers Bhd
(UE)/Renong controversy), Jaws 11 is now appearing at a theatre near you.
Cement Industries Malaysia Bhd (Cima) has made an unsecured advance of RM292 million to its
parent UE, equivalent to about 45.6 per cent of the former's shareholders funds (The Edge, April 13,
1998).
Under the KLSE listing rules, any "transaction” exceeding 25 per cent of either a company's
shareholders’ funds, assets, or profit contribution, requires shareholders’ approval, and this would be the
case if the money is to be invested in , for example, Renong shares directly. However, if the funds were
to be up-channelled to UE, which in turn made the Renong investment, all that is required is a footnote
in the annual report, no shareholders meeting, no independent adviser to minority shareholders, no FIC
approval, nothing!
This may have complied with the letters of the KLSE listing rules, but definitely not the spirit. To
control the diversion of a listed company's assets from its principal businesses, and lending money to the
parent company generally is not one of them. If this is loophole in the KLSE rules, amend it by all
means before more "trucks" drive through it.
At least, if Cima made the investments directly, it can retain ownership of the assets, but in this case,
the loan to UE is unsecured and payable as and when able (no fixed repayment terms). Should some
unfortunate event happen to UE, minority shareholders will be left holding an "empty bag”.
Another way to look at the exercise is in terms of the net equity" UE has in Cima. The latest accounts
gave UE's shareholding in Cima as 53.9 per cent. After taking back 45.6 per cent of its investment in
the form of the loan, UE's net equity in the company is only 8.3 per cent.
Thus, UE is now effectively controlling Cima with only a minor equity, and there is little the majority
shareholders (technically the minority shareholders on the register) can say or do about it, other than
voting with their feet. This is a disguised preferential return of capital to the controlling shareholder,
albeit temporarily in the form of a loan. Because Cima has to borrow the bulk of the funds itself and
there is no indication of a spread in the interest charged to UE, what is Cima’s minority shareholders
getting out of this whole exercise?
The upside the interest spread if any. The downside: I shudder to think!
Non-swimmer
Kuala Lumpur
* Letter of the Month award winne

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2024-01-22 14:40 | Report Abuse

@dumbMoney -- this is also why TTB thinks you are dangerous. He care less people like me or others, we can bark but can't bite. He worries you might bite him, that's why lo, merely just by your presence, he shrivels.....and pointing the gun at you. He will intimidate, discredit, associate you with gweilo, etc.......poor dumbMoney but I think he messes with a wrong guy. You have left him alone even silent up to AGM this year yet....he still won't reciprocate and won't leave you in peace. 😂😂

Posted by FastMoney666 > 2024-01-22 14:50 | Report Abuse

*forgot it's 2024 ady.....this year was referring to year 2023

Posted by Patient Investor > 2024-01-22 15:12 | Report Abuse

@dumbMoney Cant comment much on your business school as I'm am not in the loop on the dispute between you and mr. Tan on the subject.

Sorry for calling you attacking, perhaps you are just challenging for your rights. But what you posted here in my opinion is driving away retail investor from icap stock.
So why do you keep vested ? do you believe COL will close the gap? or Mr.Tan ability to deliver hence share price trade at premium?
And you are willing to pay the opportunity cost for holding it at a discount?

Posted by dumbMoney > 2024-01-22 15:14 | Report Abuse

@FastMoney When an investor who has been steadily buying the shares for more than 10 years without selling has been accused of wrecking the company and causing the price discount and taken to court, someone has to speak up for them. Not only that, now that share prices have moved up partly through its buying, others are taking the credit for it.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2024-01-22 15:25 | Report Abuse

Which institutional investor would buy shares with the intention of driving the price down and hurt itself? It is others selling the shares at any price that cause the discount. The deeper the discount, the more it will buy, to average down the cost. As a public company, there is no requirement to declare one's intention when buying, or selling. Foreign or otherwise.

Posted by dumbMoney > 2024-01-22 15:33 | Report Abuse

@Patient Investor Haha, instead of driving away retail investor, I fear for my life attending the AGM, when my photo and my name got flashed on the big screen and identified as enemy of the state. I am sure those who attended the past 2 AGM know what I am talking about.